|
NotALizardman posted:I was under the impression that the weapon skill perks just determined the mods you could slap on your weapons, not your accuracy? You're correct "Note that although Gun Nut and Science! are both considered skills, they do not cover the base damage and accuracy of the weapons. This is instead handled by the Gunslinger perk for pistols, and the Commando perk for rifles." e: there was a video of a guy playing NV and wanting exactly that as he talked about Fallout, it was posted here once or twice, anyone have it? frajaq fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Aug 2, 2015 |
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:55 |
|
|
frajaq posted:You're correct Which is actually worse, because you have to invest in two different multi-rank perks just to get the most out of your gun when you could be putting points into fun poo poo like bloody mess and mysterious stranger instead.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:36
|
|
|
Walrus Pete posted:Which is actually worse, because you have to invest in two different multi-rank perks just to get the most out of your gun when you could be putting points into fun poo poo like bloody mess and mysterious stranger instead. Actually it's better, it's giving you choice in customizing your character play style.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:37
|
|
|
I'm still not sold on it. I just don't think the idea of making Skills into Perks is great. I guess they won't have the same like 20 level cap they did in FO3 or whatever but assuming they do, that's 20 perks since we get one every level this time. Now like half of those perks are going to have to go into increasing your skills. I dunno, I just like the skills system more.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:39
|
|
|
We've seen screens of characters at level 50 so if there is a cap it's at least that high.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:41
|
|
|
Consider you get XP for doing even little things like customizing your weapon I doubt it's gonna be lvl 20 cap. Hell they might even make it a lvl 50 cap like some goon suggested here e:f;b
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:41
|
|
|
So is each element of S.P.E.C.I.A.L. its own skill tree now? I'm guessing it could work in practice, but it sounds like it's completely geared towards min-maxing, as in if you aren't interested in a tree then there's no point raising that attribute above 1. It also seems fairly easy to max out the tree for particular characters if there isn't any other mechanism to gate off when you get each perk. For example an unarmed specialist who puts enough points in Strength at character creation should be able to get all the relevant perks by about level 7.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:42
|
|
|
frajaq posted:Actually it's better, it's giving you choice in customizing your character play style.  That's what skill points and perks already did. With this system, you have to choose between a) combat competence, b) non-combat competence (hacking, etc), and c) Fun poo poo(tm). Choosing between A and B can be interesting, but shackling C to the same choice makes it much too limiting.Long-term it probably won't be as much of an issue as I'm making it out to be, especially if you level quickly and the cap is high, but it's going to make the early game really annoying.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:43
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:Did you guys get some sort of newsletter, or are you just naturally challenged? "Doctor, what's the diagnosis? Give it to us straight!" "I'm afraid there's just no way around it. Your son Timmy gave Fallout: New Vegas an 8 out of 10, but gave the clearly inferior Fallout 3 an 8.5 out of ten, indicating severe retardation. I'm very sorry."
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:45
|
|
|
Fallout 3 blows.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
Folding Skills together with Perks is one of the best decisions Bethesda made for this game, I really like it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:49
|
|
|
frajaq posted:there was a video of a guy playing NV and wanting exactly that as he talked about Fallout, it was posted here once or twice, anyone have it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOOz_fHHt0o Gopher seems to have hit the nail on the head several times in this video based on what that thread had.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:53
|
|
|
Trapezium Dave posted:So is each element of S.P.E.C.I.A.L. its own skill tree now? I'm guessing it could work in practice, but it sounds like it's completely geared towards min-maxing, as in if you aren't interested in a tree then there's no point raising that attribute above 1. Well keep in mind you've only got 28 points at the start of the game instead of 40. You might have 10 strength, but you've got 3s for the rest. In addition perks are ranked now so it might take you 4 levels just to fill out the basic skill completely, let alone others you deem "relevant". And even if you do that, so what? You've created a fragile, slow, easily winded, unlucky, half blind lunkhead who's good at hitting stuff. Why would that be broken?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:53
|
|
|
My concern with that system is still basically: How much is SPECIAL going to be a limiting factor on perks? If you have to pump tons of perks into increasing your SPECIAL just to have a chance at the upper half of the tree, it's going to encourage players to heavily emphasize one or two stats, especially if you get one perk per level. Having four ranks for each perk just compounds the problem. Hitting level 50 after 100+ hours of gameplay would let you fill out maybe three skill lines out of seven after you factor in boosting stats by 6-7, and only at rank 1. it just feels like they'll need a lot of extra sources of both SPECIAL and perk points. FronzelNeekburm fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Aug 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:55
|
|
|
FronzelNeekburm posted:My concern with that system is still basically: How much is SPECIAL going to be a limiting factor on perks? If you have to pump tons of perks into increasing your SPECIAL just to have a chance at the upper half of the tree, it's going to encourage players to heavily emphasize one or two stats, especially if you get one perk per level. Having four ranks for each perk just compounds the problem. Hitting level 50 after 100+ hours of gameplay would let you fill out maybe three skill lines out of seven after you factor in boosting stats by 6-7. I believe it said that SPECIAL requirements for perks top out at 6, so it won't be that bad. Having to sink 4 perk points into every skill you want to use sounds much, much worse.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 02:57
|
|
|
FronzelNeekburm posted:My concern with that system is still basically: How much is SPECIAL going to be a limiting factor on perks? If you have to pump tons of perks into increasing your SPECIAL just to have a chance at the upper half of the tree, it's going to encourage players to heavily emphasize one or two stats, especially if you get one perk per level. Having four ranks for each perk just compounds the problem. Hitting level 50 after 100+ hours of gameplay would let you fill out maybe three skill lines out of seven after you factor in boosting stats by 6-7, and only at rank 1. I read this and it sounds like exactly what I would want. Weren't people bitching earlier that Bethesda sucks because every character can do everything at once and characters don't feel different enough?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:00
|
|
|
People are gonna have to make Choices in their Character Progression in an RPG 
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:02
|
|
|
frajaq posted:People are gonna have to make Choices in their Character Progression in an RPG The system as it was in FO3/NV already offered that. This is replacing it with much more restrictive, less interesting choices.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:06
|
|
|
Walrus Pete posted:The system as it was in FO3/NV already offered that. This is replacing it with much more restrictive, less interesting choices. The system was also routinely lambasted for being an unintuitive slog to manage and required external resources to actual look up the requirements for better perks. Who wants to guess what's required to enhance the swing speed for my sword? An Unarmed skill of 90? That makes sense!
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:10
|
|
|
7c Nickel posted:Well keep in mind you've only got 28 points at the start of the game instead of 40. You might have 10 strength, but you've got 3s for the rest. In addition perks are ranked now so it might take you 4 levels just to fill out the basic skill completely, let alone others you deem "relevant".
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:11
|
|
|
Walrus Pete posted:The system as it was in FO3/NV already offered that. This is replacing it with much more restrictive, less interesting choices. Can I borrow your copy of the game?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:11
|
|
|
Trapezium Dave posted:It's the pacing of the thing, assuming I've understood the basics of the system correctly. If I'm rolling with an unarmed specialist then it makes sense to pick up the unarmed perks as soon as possible. Previously those were spread out and gated behind skill and level limits, but here it seems like it's only locked behind having enough of the correct SPECIAL stat. It seems possible to max out whatever your weapon of choice very quickly by focusing entirely on that particular SPECIAL stat and the perks. Again I ask, so what?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:13
|
|
|
Finally read the post, and now I'm mostly curious about skill books. They mention it in that post, and I think Game Informer brought it up during Quakecon, but during one of the demos they looted an issue of Grognak off of a dead raider. I doubt that it would rank up your melee weapon skill perk, so I wonder if it's like an exp consumable, or a temporary boost to melee like a New Vegas skill magazine? Maybe they're just a collectible now?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:16
|
|
|
7c Nickel posted:Again I ask, so what?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:17
|
|
|
Trapezium Dave posted:Because the whole flow of RPGs is gradually getting stronger, not to max out and plateau one hour in with 200 hours left in the game. Strong as defined by punching dudes and literally terrible at everything else.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:20
|
|
|
7c Nickel posted:The system was also routinely lambasted for being an unintuitive slog to manage and required external resources to actual look up the requirements for better perks. Who wants to guess what's required to enhance the swing speed for my sword? An Unarmed skill of 90? That makes sense! Lambasted by who? This is the first I've heard of it. The only uninvtuitive thing about it was a small handful of the perk requirements, and that could be easily solved by a better interface. 7c Nickel posted:Again I ask, so what? Because there are going to be a metric ton of "must-take" perks (anything related to your weapon(s) of choice, any skills you want to use, lockpicking+hacking, stat increases) which you'll always want as soon as possible, relegating non-essential but more interesting perks to later levels.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:20
|
|
|
Trapezium Dave posted:Because the whole flow of RPGs is gradually getting stronger, not to max out and plateau one hour in with 200 hours left in the game. Yeah that was your choice. Another person could have chosen a mix of Unarmed/Lockpicking/Speech/Stealth
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:21
|
|
|
7c Nickel posted:Strong as defined by punching dudes and literally terrible at everything else.  I'm assuming there's more to the system then what was on that site though. It does however seem geared towards play where you focus almost entirely on maxing out one particular skill at a time, which wasn't how Fallout 3 (and the earlier Fallouts) usually worked. edit: Actually scratch that for earlier Fallouts, you could pretty much get through that by focusing entirely on Small Guns. Trapezium Dave fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Aug 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:25
|
|
|
Change is bad, why can't they just remake New Vegas?!
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:28
|
|
|
Bholder posted:Change is bad, why can't they just remake New Vegas?! Responding to what people are actually saying is hard, why can't I just attack a strawman?! oh wait you can
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:29
|
|
|
I think the system sounds pretty good, but I can't wait until we get some actual information on the non-skill perks because the dude who made that post is a major idiot. "Well you see, the vault boy on the picture is wearing a bomber jacket, and this concept art had dogmeat on the vertibird, so this perk must allow you to take dogmeat on the vertibird!!!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:30
|
|
|
NotALizardman posted:I think the system sounds pretty good, but I can't wait until we get some actual information on the non-skill perks because the dude who made that post is a major idiot. Would be a loving crime if that wasn't on by default
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:34
|
|
|
Walrus Pete posted:Lambasted by who? This is the first I've heard of it. The only uninvtuitive thing about it was a small handful of the perk requirements, and that could be easily solved by a better interface. I've seen a lot of people complain about having to sift through a big ugly list of perks looking for ones they actually want. There's nothing saying that any of those things you listed are "must take". You don't HAVE to open every lock. You might want to, but that's a choice you're making over taking, I don't know, chem boost perks or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:34
|
|
|
frajaq posted:Would be a loving crime if that wasn't on by default Yeah that particular perk is called Attack Dog, which I think is pretty goddamn straightforward, but then again I'm not a Bethesda Official Forums Perk Speculation poster so what the hell do I know.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:37
|
|
|
7c Nickel posted:I've seen a lot of people complain about having to sift through a big ugly list of perks looking for ones they actually want. There's nothing saying that any of those things you listed are "must take". You don't HAVE to open every lock. You might want to, but that's a choice you're making over taking, I don't know, chem boost perks or whatever. Again, that's an interface issue. And sure, lockpicking and hacking are less essential than the other ones I listed, but if you ignore the very boring "+X% <weapon> accuracy and damage" perks in favor of stuff like bloody mess or terrifying presence, you're essentially being penalized for choosing fun over numbers. Now, if they dare to dream and make your character have some default competence with weapons, this becomes much less of a problem. But I suspect it'll be just like FO3/NV where if you don't invest the points, you might as well not even have the gun. Perks used to be just that, perks. Extras, bonuses. When you mix them in with the baseline skill system, there's very little reason to choose what used to be perks over what used to be skills.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:42
|
|
|
One perk/skill/SPECIAL per level would be fine, depending on exactly how quickly they dish out the levels, and if there is a level cap. I don't see why Bethesda wouldn't get rid of the level cap all together, Skyrim didn't have a level cap after all. It would fit with their philosophy of allowing the player to see all content in one play through.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:46
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:You mean just like in FO3? Sorry, I guess they're turtle people. Close enough.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:49
|
|
|
I really hope there are some good quest related perks (ie. perks that are 1-off and are kind of easter-eggs in that they dont appear on the perk list.) There was a great fallout 3 mod that gave you ghoulified night vision if you ever exceeded 200 rads or so - you had to have a lighting overhaul for it to really mean much though.
Flaky fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Aug 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:51
|
|
|
Walrus Pete posted:Perks used to be just that, perks. Extras, bonuses. When you mix them in with the baseline skill system, there's very little reason to choose what used to be perks over what used to be skills. That sounds like a criticism of the balance rather than a criticism of the system. And considering you don't actually have any idea of the balance it seems like you're being unnecessarily negative.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:55 |
|
|
Flaky posted:I really hope there are some good quest related perks (ie. perks that are 1-off and are kind of easter-eggs in that they dont appear on the perk list.) There was a great fallout 3 mod that gave you ghoulified night vision if you ever exceeded 200 rads or so - you had to have a lighting overhaul for it to really mean much though. 3 had that one you could get from the survival guide quest where you regrew limbs when you got irradiated. Things like that?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2015 03:58
|
|