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You should be able to enforce religion on heathen vassals but have it give double revolt risk for that vassal and also double liberty desire, and an opinion drop. Or somethijng.
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Aug 2, 2015 04:06
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420 Gank Mid posted:Going for Spain is the Emperor can be very easy with great RNG, or a tough slog otherwise. How do you get a core adjacent to Burgundy? Can you use your alliance with Burgundy to jump France in the middle of the 100 year war and I guess take a province without a claim? I would think trying to keep order in the HRE as Spain would be a giant pain in the rear end that early.
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Aug 2, 2015 04:23
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LLSix posted:How do you get a core adjacent to Burgundy? Can you use your alliance with Burgundy to jump France in the middle of the 100 year war and I guess take a province without a claim? I would think trying to keep order in the HRE as Spain would be a giant pain in the rear end that early. Eat Aragon instead of waiting for a lucky PU. Eat Provence and then cool your heels while the massive AE-gasm goes off.
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Aug 2, 2015 04:24
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Turns out my (Ethiopian) worry about the Turks was a false alarm, I contributed to a dogpile that's completely broken them. In which the Mega-Commonwealth got Constantinople.  Well, it'll make for a suitably epic showdown.
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Aug 2, 2015 04:33
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ulmont posted:It's still bullshit. If the Ottomans invade Spain to force the release of Granada it should be Muslim regardless. If the Ottomans make Spain release Granada in 1800 why should it still be Muslim? The 'majority of cores' rule makes more sense than either the 'religion of released cores only' or 'immutable permanent religion decided in 1444' rules.
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Aug 2, 2015 05:08
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So two questions about an Ethiopia run. First, what ideas? I'm thinking Religious-Exploration-Defensive-Diplomatic-Quantity to start. Secondly, where should I go once I've got the Horn under my control- south for the gold or west to get westernized?
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Aug 2, 2015 05:24
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StashAugustine posted:So two questions about an Ethiopia run. First, what ideas? I'm thinking Religious-Exploration-Defensive-Diplomatic-Quantity to start. Secondly, where should I go once I've got the Horn under my control- south for the gold or west to get westernized? Definitely go to Kilwa and sack all the gold. If you can get away with it, steal Mecca and also take as much of Oman as you can. I think your main goal is to secure South Africa but also kill Mamlukes at any cost.
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Aug 2, 2015 05:30
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I just finished my very first complete Ironman game as Russia! That was exhilarating, seriously. I like the added challenge of not being able to save scum if I get myself into a war I shouldn't. A short summary: I helped Sweden break away from Denmark in a revolution, which was successful. The loving Swedish bastards proceeded to be buddy-buddy with me until they formed Scandinavia, and after that they somehow got a personal union with the mega Lithuania. I ended up being forced to expand south and east, and eventually made it to the Pacific. The entire time I was colonizing, I was in a neverending series of wars against the Scandinavia-Lithuania-Brandenburg unholy alliance of loving death and it wasn't until I figured out that Scandinavia was destroying me in the military tech race that I knew what to do. I managed to fight the western powers to a white peace, dropped my spending as low as possible, and pulled off a feat of technological progress that would have been unheard of. I gained 5 military tech levels in under 20 years, letting my manpower reserves recover. I built up to my force limit, got the Ottomans to get into an alliance (who, by the way, managed to penetrate all the way past Austria and had a huge chunk of south-central Europe lmao) and waited for my ally Riga to call me into another war. Thus began the Russian reconquest of basically everything in a semi-circle above Moscow. Competing on an even (or sometimes more advanced) military tech field allowed me to scatter my enemies before me and I reclaimed the ~15-20 provinces that I had given away in peace treaties to avoid losing my entire country over the past couple hundred years. At the same time, I finished my colonization of the steppelands and reduced the megapower Nogai into a OPM, beat the poo poo out of Crimea and cut their country in half, and laid waste to almost every central Asian horde while I was fighting the strongest military alliance in the world. I ended that period of time with ~170% overextension, and somehow triggered the Revolutionary Russia event chain. So cool, I became the pseudo-USSR in 1740. I was then invaded by Ming, who used the CB "Crush the Revolution" (irony that) and somehow I started the war with a positive warscore? I don't know, but all I could do was try to catch their megastacks apart from each other (around 50 or 60 per stack for fucks sake guys come on) and white peace them when their war exhaustion got to the Medium level. I took a brief look at the Ming lands and holy mother of god they put a fortress every other province. Any kind of invasion would have been off the table so I defeated their armies in the attrition-rich north Siberian steppes. I ended the game in another war with Scandinavia-Lithuania  The seventh war with them over the course of the game. At some point Brandenburg decided to tell the Scandinavians to gently caress off, probably because by the end of the game I was fielding a 800,000 person army with 1.3 million manpower in reserve, with a Pacific-based 100,000 man army and I had maxed out the military tech tree, while pulling in ~75 ducats per month surplus.. Had the game not ended there, I'm positive I could have just annexed 3/4 of both countries I was fighting because at that point nothing except the Ming could stop me, and only then because their land would have been ungodly expensive to take, what with all the attrition and forts and the 2.1 million manpower they had. They probably could have wiped out the Ottomans if they cared enough to.I ended the game in fourth place, with the 3rd biggest military. My new favorite strategy: use mercenaries in stacks of 5 or 6 to go into your enemy's unprotected lands and occupy/pillage them while their main armies are busy fighting your big guys. It's a nice way to draw some of them off to give you time to breathe. The turning point in the war that made my Russia a superpower was me sending in guerrilla stacks of mercs into Finland, Korelia, Kola, and other northern provinces causing just enough havoc to make Scandinavia withdraw two of their stacks (combined total, maybe 55 or 60?) to go deal with them, allowing me to move two of my armies into a position that let me flank their remaining armies and wreck them. After that, Scandinavia couldn't concentrate enough force to take out my combined armies, giving me the victory. HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Aug 2, 2015 |
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Aug 2, 2015 07:18
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Obliterati posted:So the first Common Sense game of MP took off today: I assume you went with the classic MP "everyone fucks the Ottomans as quickly as possible" strat.
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Aug 2, 2015 08:04
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RabidWeasel posted:I assume you went with the classic MP "everyone fucks the Ottomans as quickly as possible" strat. It was mostly everyone fucks everyone as quickly as possible.
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Aug 2, 2015 08:16
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poo poo, army composition as Russia is tricky. No, not the inf/cav/art split; it's learning how to build stacks that won't attrition themselves to death in the harsh snowscape while remaining strong enough to fend off rebels or whatever while other stacks rush to their aid. EDIT: When to put off tech upgrades is tricky too. Can't decide if the production and trade bonuses are worth losing to advance ideas and poo poo, what with mercenaries being key to my playstyle. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Aug 2, 2015 |
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Aug 2, 2015 08:19
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toasterwarrior posted:poo poo, army composition as Russia is tricky. No, not the inf/cav/art split; it's learning how to build stacks that won't attrition themselves to death in the harsh snowscape while remaining strong enough to fend off rebels or whatever while other stacks rush to their aid. What I learned from finishing my Russia game was to just make sure your tech levels are on parity with your rival. If my time modifier is 5%, then I pump MP into ideas. If it's more than 5%, then I focus on getting the tech up another level. Once I get my modifier to like, 100% or higher, then I do nothing but pump ideas until I'm at parity again. I only break that routine if I'm about to take advantage of a strong rival being at war or otherwise occupied and think I'll need every advantage I can get. My last game had me one mil tech higher than Scandinavia, and I waited until they were at war with some coalition in Europe before jumping on them. Even then, I barely won - if I hadn't had a level higher than them, it would've been disastrous.
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Aug 2, 2015 08:46
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RabidWeasel posted:I assume you went with the classic MP "everyone fucks the Ottomans as quickly as possible" strat. Nobody hosed the Ottomans. The Ottomans hosed the Ottomans. They were in one war and lost it somehow. And then Byzantium came back. Bill. All that needs saying.
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Aug 2, 2015 09:15
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Hey, has a tutorial LP thread ever been made for this game? The one from CK2 was very thorough but I already knew how to play that game. I've just started trying to play Europa. My usual strategy to learn is playing, loving up and then alt-tabbing to the wiki to find out why. It's working fine but if anyone has made a screenshot tutorial LP, I'd be grateful for a link.
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Aug 2, 2015 10:00
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While I'm sure there was one at one point (I recall learning from an EU4 LP) it would be really out of date. People have kicked around the idea that there should be a new, but no one seems willing to step up and do it. They're pretty time intensive.
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Aug 2, 2015 11:32
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Another Person posted:Nobody hosed the Ottomans. The Ottomans hosed the Ottomans. They were in one war and lost it somehow. And then Byzantium came back. i wish i was in more mp games with bill sounds like fun times
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Aug 2, 2015 11:42
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Another Person posted:Nobody hosed the Ottomans. The Ottomans hosed the Ottomans. They were in one war and lost it somehow. And then Byzantium came back. I honestly don't see how this is possible but it sounds like fun was had!
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Aug 2, 2015 12:22
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aeglus posted:i wish i was in more mp games with bill sounds like fun times Last session, I realized that Bohtan was expanding almost unchecked into Arabia and Anatolia, and Bill as Bulgaria was looking to expand farther into Anatolia himself. So I offered to help him out. After all, we had double Bohtan's armies! Then we got stackwiped instantly as soon as it hit shock pahse because the Bohtan player had done the Muslim tech gimmick thing where you stack a bunch of cavalry combat bonuses and use as much cavalry as you possibly can in an army, with mostly artillery as backup with a tiny slice of infantry. Both of us had standard infantry/artillery stacks which get destroyed by that particular strategy. Most players would just lick their wounds, but Bill was so enraged that he declared war on all of his neighbors one by one, determined to take someone out with him. It was probably the more fun choice considering he was completely boxed in by players and had nowhere to go.
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Aug 2, 2015 12:40
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LLSix posted:How do you get a core adjacent to Burgundy? Can you use your alliance with Burgundy to jump France in the middle of the 100 year war and I guess take a province without a claim? I would think trying to keep order in the HRE as Spain would be a giant pain in the rear end that early. Yeah, France isn't exactly a paper tiger, but it isn't immune to all the other dumb poo poo AI does that a player can exploit. You can win a war vs France, and if you get lucky and Burgundy and Austria rival France and not you they are ready to throw down day 1 basically. Sit in the mountains on the border for a few months while France marches into Burgundy/Austria stacks and then start sieging. I think you only need to take 2 provinces in southern France to reach Burgundy
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Aug 2, 2015 12:46
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Larry Parrish posted:Last session, I realized that Bohtan was expanding almost unchecked into Arabia and Anatolia, and Bill as Bulgaria was looking to expand farther into Anatolia himself. So I offered to help him out. After all, we had double Bohtan's armies! Then we got stackwiped instantly as soon as it hit shock pahse because the Bohtan player had done the Muslim tech gimmick thing where you stack a bunch of cavalry combat bonuses and use as much cavalry as you possibly can in an army, with mostly artillery as backup with a tiny slice of infantry. Both of us had standard infantry/artillery stacks which get destroyed by that particular strategy. Bill you are cool to be Ethiopia, Muscovy supports your cause, very russia
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Aug 2, 2015 13:17
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Larry Parrish posted:Last session, I realized that Bohtan was expanding almost unchecked into Arabia and Anatolia, and Bill as Bulgaria was looking to expand farther into Anatolia himself. So I offered to help him out. After all, we had double Bohtan's armies! Then we got stackwiped instantly as soon as it hit shock pahse because the Bohtan player had done the Muslim tech gimmick thing where you stack a bunch of cavalry combat bonuses and use as much cavalry as you possibly can in an army, with mostly artillery as backup with a tiny slice of infantry. Both of us had standard infantry/artillery stacks which get destroyed by that particular strategy. How much extra cavalry power do you need for this to actually be effective? I assume the muslim tech is just so you can have 80% of your army as cavalry since muslim cavalry unit pips are actually the worst at most tech levels for some reason.
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Aug 2, 2015 13:22
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RabidWeasel posted:How much extra cavalry power do you need for this to actually be effective? I assume the muslim tech is just so you can have 80% of your army as cavalry since muslim cavalry unit pips are actually the worst at most tech levels for some reason. Hungary and Poland would seem like the obivous choices for it. I feel like their big bonuses could be worth the 20% difference in cavalry
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Aug 2, 2015 13:40
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About this much, which was about the same time, or maybe later in the same game. Hungary and Poland can do it, but not to the same level a Muslim tech nation could
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Aug 2, 2015 13:43
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Stevefin posted:About this much, which was about the same time, or maybe later in the same game. I think the 23% discipline advantage is the key thing there.
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Aug 2, 2015 13:45
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toasterwarrior posted:poo poo, army composition as Russia is tricky. No, not the inf/cav/art split; it's learning how to build stacks that won't attrition themselves to death in the harsh snowscape while remaining strong enough to fend off rebels or whatever while other stacks rush to their aid. I almost always prioritise ideas unless it's a breakpoint level, like maybe a manufactory, trade building, imperialism or admin efficiency. A full idea set will give you way more bonuses than a couple of tech levels, and with decent MP income you can grab one or two bonuses before you even have to make a tradeoff. It depends on the ideas but you're not spending Mil points to make your economy better (except indirectly by conquering harder), and every other idea I take either helps me create a larger or more stable nation, which generally means I'll be richer, or carries a direct buff to income. Sometimes both! You do get 20% production or trade efficiency for being ahead in admin/dip tech, so one tech level can potentially be +30% efficiency.
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Aug 2, 2015 13:52
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Donald Duck posted:I think the 23% discipline advantage is the key thing there. It did play a part but at the same time he had about 60% cavalierly bonuses. All the discipline did was make sure he had enough horses survive to the shock phase
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Aug 2, 2015 13:56
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Manpower for manpower, cav is way more effective at ending battles than infantry. So long as you have wide combat width and aren't getting penalty for going over your cav limit the only thing stronger than cav is a full back line of artillery.
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Aug 2, 2015 14:00
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toasterwarrior posted:poo poo, army composition as Russia is tricky. No, not the inf/cav/art split; it's learning how to build stacks that won't attrition themselves to death in the harsh snowscape while remaining strong enough to fend off rebels or whatever while other stacks rush to their aid. Is the usual inf/cav/art split different as Russia? Does Westernizing change it?
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Aug 2, 2015 14:02
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420 Gank Mid posted:Manpower for manpower, cav is way more effective at ending battles than infantry. So long as you have wide combat width and aren't getting penalty for going over your cav limit the only thing stronger than cav is a full back line of artillery. Huh, i've always heard you should use max 2-4 cavalry per stack purely for flanking.
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Aug 2, 2015 14:14
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Yashichi posted:If the Ottomans make Spain release Granada in 1800 why should it still be Muslim? The 'majority of cores' rule makes more sense than either the 'religion of released cores only' or 'immutable permanent religion decided in 1444' rules. Because the Ottomans are Muslim. The 'religion of power forcing the release of country' makes the most sense.
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Aug 2, 2015 14:18
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Back To 99 posted:Huh, i've always heard you should use max 2-4 cavalry per stack purely for flanking. This is correct as a rule of thumb because most people play Western nations who have the strictest cavalry limits, and early on in the game you will not be wanting to spend all that money keeping cav in the field. Lategame wars are decided by super-mega deathstacks though so the rules get a little weird. But still, if you just need to stackwipe their army with one good punch, loading up for a 10k inf 10k cavalry army and then disbanding it after the battle can work wonders.
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Aug 2, 2015 14:29
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Bold Robot posted:Is the usual inf/cav/art split different as Russia? Does Westernizing change it? Nah, it's the same. It's just that you have lovely supply limits that get even worse the further you go east, and the new fort system means that you effectively need lots of smaller stacks across a large frontier to catch rebels and invaders as Russia.
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Aug 2, 2015 14:43
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Back To 99 posted:Huh, i've always heard you should use max 2-4 cavalry per stack purely for flanking. Infantry are way more cost effective so if you're at all restrained by income and you're not filling up your entire combat width every fight - both of which are common early game - then they're a better choice.
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Aug 2, 2015 15:01
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Back To 99 posted:Huh, i've always heard you should use max 2-4 cavalry per stack purely for flanking. Lots of the general rules of thumb and stuff that get posted in this thread are only really to help out newbies, and can be broken extremely effectively once you know what you're doing.
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Aug 2, 2015 15:30
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What's the starting combat width again? It's 9, right? This really should be a tooltip viewable somewhere other than on the actual battle screen when its already too late. Plenty of space on the military screen to show combat width + modifiers.
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Aug 2, 2015 16:39
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People like to simply stick to X/4/X armies and 'get discipline over everything' but it's simply not true that those are always the most effective strategy in every case. You can do silly stuff like stack the more plentiful bonuses to morale over discipline to the point where your troops have double or triple the average war enemy and the battle is pretty much over before it starts.
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Aug 2, 2015 16:50
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Sheep posted:What's the starting combat width again? It's 9, right? This really should be a tooltip viewable somewhere other than on the actual battle screen when its already too late. Plenty of space on the military screen to show combat width + modifiers. Pretty sure it's a base of 15 + whatever is displayed in your tech screen
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Aug 2, 2015 17:10
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Yeah, stacking Morale is pretty bananas too. The higher morale is why everyone hates fighting France so much, and of course Brandenburg gets both discipline and morale bonuses.
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Aug 2, 2015 17:13
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Larry Parrish posted:People like to simply stick to X/4/X armies and 'get discipline over everything' but it's simply not true that those are always the most effective strategy in every case. You can do silly stuff like stack the more plentiful bonuses to morale over discipline to the point where your troops have double or triple the average war enemy and the battle is pretty much over before it starts. higher morale means your troops fight longer but not better so you're basically just prolonging the beating the enemy will give you. high moral needs more soldiers and more manpower to make up for the robocops discipline gives you. which is why quantity is good.
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Aug 2, 2015 17:56
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Mans posted:higher morale means your troops fight longer but not better so you're basically just prolonging the beating the enemy will give you. Morale literally wins battles, in the sense that regiments will fight until their morale is depleted and then they'll break and flee. Stackwipes occur because you wreck all their morale in the first 6 days. Brandenburg/Prussia is a stackwiping monster specifically because they stack a huge morale bonus (+20% +up to 25% from high AT) with great infantry combat and discipline. I don't think "prolonging the beating the enemy will give you" is necessarily true, since having a large Morale gap will make you route individual enemy regiments. Morale wins battles. Leader pips and AT are great, discipline is great, morale is great, combat ability is okay. They all stack multiplicatively though so it doesn't really make sense to single any one out as the be-all end-all combat stat. Play to your strengths and have a mix of all of them, ideally.
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Aug 2, 2015 18:14
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