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I like Vitari because she's reasonably badass and then you find out her baby daddy is the biggest baddest dude in all the books.
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May 23, 2015 02:37
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I actually really really liked Vitari. Again, my opinion was a wrong one and I submit myself to the mercy of the thread. And yeah, her baby daddy owned loving bones.
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May 23, 2015 07:31
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Joe himself has said that he doesn't particularly like how he wrote female characters in his first few books, but with the standalones outside of the original trilogy and his YA books, he's made up for it, I think.
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May 23, 2015 23:04
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I think Joe still has a little trouble writing female characters. All of them are attractive (whereas most his male cast are specifically unattractive) and there's a sort of male gaze written in there. Just looking at how Temple sees Shy, when her attraction to him is not even touched on despite her being a POV character... Anyway I did enjoy Red Country quite a bit, just finished it and finally caught up on the thread. It had some glaring weak points, but I'm shocked to see people preferred BSC.
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May 28, 2015 22:33
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Neurosis posted:What's wrong with Finree? She's a manipulative borderline-sociopath? (Who uses her powers for good, mind.) The combination of which is why she is the best, except maybe Calder for loosely similar reasons. I love his last scene with his brother to BITS.
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May 31, 2015 05:27
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GreyjoyBastard posted:She's a manipulative borderline-sociopath? (Who uses her powers for good, mind.) I really think that is being too harsh on her. She places herself well for advancement and is a social climber, but I can't recall it really being at anyone's expense. She also did her level best to help Brint's wife and was properly scarred by her inability to save her friend. Overall I think she does what a woman can in that society to get ahead without being immoral about it. Maybe I'm forgetting something.
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May 31, 2015 06:14
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VagueRant posted:All of them are attractive (whereas most his male cast are specifically unattractive) and there's a sort of male gaze written in there. I've never really seen grimdark as genre that most women would be interested in anyway
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May 31, 2015 09:51
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Supernatural treats the women just as desirable as the male leads though. And I know a few women who read ASOIAF. I think grimdark fantasy shouldn't be written with a gender bias, it should be accessible to everyone who likes swords and bitterness! Something that has been bugging me about Red Country looking back on it. I really kinda wish that it ended with Ro stabbing Logen/Lamb in the back after Shivers decides not to fight him. I just think that would've been a much more emotional climax and tied all those stories together. Ro's arc didn't really have much of a conclusion. And the idea that after all he'd been through, even after Shivers let their feud go, he just gets surprised by a child and dies in a real lovely way - it would've been a fairly Abercrombie way for him to go. Then again I had a similar view on The Last Of Us while people gobbled the actual ending up so I don't even know.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:06
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That would have been a terrible ending. Just really awful.
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Jun 9, 2015 02:40
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It wouldn't really have much chance of killing him either, what would happen then? Who's to say Ro won't be back in the next stories too?
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Jun 9, 2015 16:40
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It would have been a really boring way to end that particular character's arc. Who gets a boring death like that? I can't really think of anyone.
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Jun 10, 2015 21:54
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Cosca
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Jun 11, 2015 03:03
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Fitting end for someone who lived so large though.
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Jun 11, 2015 15:46
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Hello, I picked up one of these at a book sale and the writing is really bad:quote:
Is this thread ironic or does it somehow get better?
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Jun 29, 2015 14:38
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No, you should give up because he uses adjectives and you have isolated sentence fragments that seem awkward when marooned without context. I dunno, man, his writing improves with time but he isn't and doesn't aspire to be McCarthy. Read the books, make up your own mind.
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Jun 29, 2015 14:42
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Evfedu posted:No, you should give up because he uses adjectives and you have isolated sentence fragments that seem awkward when marooned without context. There's plenty of ground to cover between Cormac McCarthy and something that reads like a Young Adult novel. I mean George RR Martin isn't exactly high literature, but his prose is pretty decent even when it's decribing someone making GBS threads in the grasslands/making GBS threads while dying on the toilet/making GBS threads in various other situations.
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Jun 29, 2015 14:54
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I think his writing gets better. This thread isn't ironic, a lot of people seem to enjoy his books. It's possible you'll end up disliking them.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:18
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I thought Abercrombie’s prose improved massively between The Blade Itself and Before They Are Hanged, mainly because he developed a knack for descriptions. I feel like fantasy writers sometimes overdo it with unnecessary and plodding blocks of descriptive language, but there were points in the first book that suffered a lot from the opposite problem and I found myself wondering ‘Wait, what does this place and the people in it actually look like?’ It kind of felt overly spare at times, although the black humor and strong characterizations had me hooked from the beginning, and the plotting always seemed really tight even when you aren’t certain yet as to what’s happening and why. And of course Abercrombie almost goes too far the other way at points in later books. It’s such a fine line between adequate and overwrought descriptions.
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Jun 29, 2015 18:27
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I absolutely loved the minimalist prose of the original trilogy. It kept everything moving at a great pace, whereas by Best Served Cold, you start a new chapter and have to get through a several paragraph description of a sky like every other overly wordy fantasy novel. I forget if this is the example I liked or not, but there's a section that starts with: quote:Snow was falling by the time they rode out through the city gates. White specks blowing on the wind, melting as soon as they touched the road, the trees, the coat of West’s horse, the armour of the guards that followed them.
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Jun 30, 2015 10:15
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tekz posted:Hello, I picked up one of these at a book sale and the writing is really bad: Sometimes Abercrombie writes in a way that is self-knowingly absurd for the purpose of humor. In this example, that humor only really works when the reader has an understanding of the context and prior characterization, and enough good faith in the quality of writing they have already seen to feel reassured that certain rhetorical choices are deliberate. The reader does not get this understanding by opening to a random page and making a snap judgement. 
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Jun 30, 2015 10:25
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Skelicopter posted:Sometimes Abercrombie writes in a way that is self-knowingly absurd for the purpose of humor. In this example, that humor only really works when the reader has an understanding of the context and prior characterization, and enough good faith in the quality of writing they have already seen to feel reassured that certain rhetorical choices are deliberate. i love joe but lol if you believe this
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Jun 30, 2015 10:36
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Wangsbig posted:i love joe but lol if you believe this Nah seriously, Abercrombie is definitely doing this deliberately. I can see why that sounds like fanboy bullshit, but I'm not just leaping to his defence, there are certainly problems I can point to regarding his writing. Just not that particular passage. Let's look at the structure of the 3 sentences: quote:“Back!” bellowed West. His sword whipped out of its scabbard with a faint ringing. "X" said Y, doing Z! It's a sentence structure repeated 3 times for absurd effect. The first 2 are very traditional fantasy sentences; the 3rd is a deflation of the previous 2. Rule of 3: setup, setup, punchline. It's not exactly a barnstorming laugh-out-loud joke, but it's deliberately wry, and the "stock fantasy" nature of the first 2 sentences is obviously setup for that. Anyone who knows Abercrombie knows that, while he may be many things, he doesn't fall into stock genre traps.
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Jun 30, 2015 11:17
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tekz posted:Hello, I picked up one of these at a book sale and the writing is really bad: Are you serious or did really fly over that hard?
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Jun 30, 2015 11:21
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hello i am a stoic warrior irl much like many characters from my favorite fantasy novels. please do not attempt to make me laugh at any point with comedic timing, i have no use for such things please only describe battle in a serious manner
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Jun 30, 2015 18:59
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Finished Half a War and overall liked it a lot. Some scenes and story turns were a bit too predictable - others very much contrary to what you'd expect from YA fantasy (or in most media today - answering the question if to keep the baby or not with choosing abortion), but in general the story moved to a nice and not necessarily very expected conclusion, with giving me both good and bad feelings towards were protagonists (and former protagonists) end up. As usual for Abercrombie, it's not really a happy end, but compared to his other books it's quite happy-ish for the most part. Also, there is an absolutely amazing combat/siege scene in it, that both made me gleeful and horrified. Decius fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jul 19, 2015 |
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Jul 19, 2015 16:40
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Came here to post that it seemed like a letdown from one of my favorite modern authors. The deaths of two main characters are glossed over and the Big Reveal is too much of a trope. Also, way to loot the wristwatch from the irradiated ruins and then never mention it again. It's better than a couple of his books but not in the top half. He's also subverting himself into a different set of cliches; all the characters too easily line up as the YA versions of their First Law counterparts. I get it, Yarvi's the next Bayaz, the princess is the next Monza, Thorn will become Ferro and R-something is the next Shivers, etc. If and when he ever revisits the setting, I already know Koll or Rim will end up dead and the other one will seek bloody vengeance that winds up ringing hollow. Grimdark is great but at this point one happy ending would be its own surprise, y'know?
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Jul 19, 2015 21:01
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Half a War: Yarvi has only very few of Bayaz characteristics, as evidenced by his "half a shoulder in the light" dialogue near the end, and he can't really end anywhere near Bayaz and his machinations simply because he is not immortal and the elf-weapons run out of ammo (although that can be solved by sending some thrall-suicide commandos into Stokholm). He's also not a shadow power, but a open one, and one that's not even free of being beholden to another. If you want to compare him, then he's more like what Glokta would be (if there was no Bayaz calling the shots). Which brings us to Skara, who has basically nothing of Monza, and ends up ruling over Yarvi - or at least as equal - if anything. The only thing they really have in common is that they are women in power and have given up a lower-class not very bright lover. Raith isn't anywhere Shiver was emotionally either. He has made his peace with the past. Same with Thorn, who ends up nowhere where Ferro does, Thorn had her revenge, she's doing what Rulf was doing before - being a Viking captain. Honestly I think you're really reaching with trying to make comparisons with the characters of other books. The gift to Thorn doesn't have any relevance - it's simply a shiny, useless bauble, the Apple Watch of 2100. Also, it was mentioned several times as mood indicator for Thorn. The death of Brand and Uthil wasn't glanced over at all, it was given pretty big room considering there was a war going on. Also, Uthil's death was something that you really could see from a mile away, that's something that bothered me a bit. The thing that made least sense for me was simple: Bright should have bottled up the two kings and the queen with their army with his 10000 men and then should have taken the other 40000 men and conquer their kingdoms, while they sit and look on helplessly until they surrender (looted grenade launchers aside). Breaking a siege at any costs makes sense if you expect a relief army coming for you, but if you outnumber your enemy 5:1 globally? You don't need to hurry. Decius fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 06:17
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I can't read those posts for a while, because I'm only a little past halfway through Half A King. But man, this book has gotten super good. The start was very slow and it took me a long while to get invested. But the current cast are super likeable, I love their quiet little happy moments, I love the "oh poo poo" moments where it all goes wrong, and it strikes a good balance between the two. Abercrombie's writing is On loving Point right now too. It reminds me of the fast-paced prose of the First Law Trilogy. I guess the relatively low detail is the only thing that marks the book as part of the YA genre (other than the lack of swearing?) and means I'm an illiterate idiot. But I'll easily take a good sentence over an okay paragraph, and lose the endless descriptions of trees that pad most fantasy novels. Literally said "oh no!" when Sumael fell through the ice. Literally laughed when the guys were teasing Yarvi about liking her and, instead of being all teen cliché, his response was, "I have a crippled hand. The rest of me still works."
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Jul 21, 2015 18:29
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For real the shattered sea trilogy owns. Owns hard. Finished Half a War in, like, 48 hours and loving loved it. Gotta be honest, though, you'd have to be a loving idiot to call Half the World and Half a War "Young Adult". Yeah great the men who choke to death on their own blood don't swear while they're doing it. Safe For Kids! I guess Post-Apoc-Fantasy is kinda the In Thing right now, huh
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Jul 22, 2015 10:44
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Evfedu posted:I guess Post-Apoc-Fantasy is kinda the In Thing right now, huh Didn't he make that obvious in Half the World?
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Jul 23, 2015 03:21
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ulmont posted:Didn't he make that obvious in Half the World?
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Jul 23, 2015 05:09
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The map made it pretty obvious, all the place names and the general shape of the Baltic sea. It's 10th century Scandinavia again, but this time it's after the nuclear war that destroyed civilization. Dunno how I feel about "Half a war", it's a solid book and I liked it but I never got into it as much as I did with Half a World. Still think Half a World the best book of the trilogy.
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Jul 23, 2015 05:40
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ulmont posted:Didn't he make that obvious in Half the World?
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Jul 23, 2015 09:16
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Adar posted:Came here to post that it seemed like a letdown from one of my favorite modern authors. The deaths of two main characters are glossed over and the Big Reveal is too much of a trope. Also, way to loot the wristwatch from the irradiated ruins and then never mention it again. It's better than a couple of his books but not in the top half. Koll gives the looted watch to Rin when they get married. Overall I liked Half a war, but the ending was a little disappointing. Yarvi seems to go a bit mad with power towards the end, setting up the Ministry to replace the high king. I didn't really have the impression he wanted to rule people, just get his revenge and fulfil his oath. Then it comes crashing down so quickly when he confronts Skara. Plus for someone so smart you'd think he would check that Yilling was actually dead and either check him for incriminating evidence or have the body destroyed by fire or explosions. Everyone hated Yilling so it would have been easy enough to make his death excessively violent enough to ensure there'd be no chatting or papers changing hands afterwards. Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 09:10
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It felt right, even Yarvi makes mistakes. Really, the witch not seeing through the assassins was a bigger surprise to me.
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Jul 30, 2015 09:20
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It felt very right. In the structure of this world where an oath is something that can actually bind these people in this way because they believe it does, there's nothing he wouldn't do to achieve his greater good. Even the happy ending feels very hopeless in the larger context.
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Jul 30, 2015 11:22
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I just finished Half a War the other day and am having trouble writing anything about it. The story was entertaining and well written and I had trouble putting it down. However, the more I think about it, the less I like it and the more I feel as though it was the weakest book of the trilogy. It felt like it was on rails, and unlike in the first 2 books, the outcome of each conflict felt like it was inevitable. The POV characters seemed to only be a window for the reader to see into the world where the non-POV characters were moving the story forward. The characters from previous books (Yarvi and Rin, specifically) felt flat compared to their previous incarnations. I really enjoyed Half the World, and perhaps part of this is that it felt like Half a War didn't live up to it. I also wonder if Abercrombie tried to cram too much material into too short a book. It felt like the characters were going from one conflict to another without the journey in between, which is most of what the other books were about.
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Aug 3, 2015 00:21
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I enjoyed the shattered sea trilogy but it was just a little too similar to mark Lawrence's broken empire. It's definitely weaker than abercrombie's other books but still worth a read.
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Aug 3, 2015 00:50
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Is it weird that I thought Half a King was better than Best Served Cold? A much better exploration of the emptiness of revenge?
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Aug 3, 2015 10:38
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VagueRant posted:Is it weird that I thought Half a King was better than Best Served Cold? A much better exploration of the emptiness of revenge? Best Served Cold really shines in depicting the hollowness of revenge in my eyes.
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Aug 3, 2015 10:42
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