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Dark Knights don't really have anything to alleviate TP problems aside from doing something really dumb like uh... spamming Unmend for a bit or something. Warriors have a TP restore in Deliverance and their combo point spenders do not have any TP cost. You'll have moments where you do two full GCDs of fell cleave or even inner beast and regen a lot of TP. Paladins... can stoneskin themselves and use Bulwark + Shield Swipe I guess. Shield Swipe is a net TP gain but it's nothing compared to warrior TP. Dark Knights just get to hit a lot of buttons, do a nice big chunk of damage in their tank stance and also get to beg for goads, Paeon and TP turret louder than 2.X monks.
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Aug 3, 2015 10:15
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WAR can also sit there and spam Flash for a bit. It's not like they were using that MP for anything, anyways, though it is a DPS loss, it at least keeps the threat rolling.
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Aug 3, 2015 11:24
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Aug 3, 2015 11:25
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Holyshoot posted:What bosses/situations are you guys having tp issues? I have yet to struggle for tp as a drk. Are people not hitting all their other non tp abilities on cd? Like plunge, stun, dark passenger, slice and carve(I think that's what it's called), the death and decay type spell. People have TP issues in the long run because they're using their TP skills. Not because they're not using their skills that don't cost TP.
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Aug 3, 2015 11:26
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SwissArmyDruid posted:WAR can also sit there and spam Flash for a bit. It's not like they were using that MP for anything, anyways, though it is a DPS loss, it at least keeps the threat rolling. Evil Fluffy posted:Nobody gives a gently caress you goddamn primadonna.
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Aug 3, 2015 11:29
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I asked this ages ago and never really got a solid answer, but do unhidden maps have a chance to drop from -any- other map? Or is there a cutoff point, like they won't ever drop from leather/goatskin?
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Aug 3, 2015 11:48
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Verranicus posted:I asked this ages ago and never really got a solid answer, but do unhidden maps have a chance to drop from -any- other map? Or is there a cutoff point, like they won't ever drop from leather/goatskin? They drop from Dragonskin, Peisteskin, Archaeoskin, Boarskin and Goatskin apparently. I've seen them from Dragon and Boar, at the very least.
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Aug 3, 2015 12:04
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kirbysuperstar posted:They drop from Dragonskin, Peisteskin, Archaeoskin, Boarskin and Goatskin apparently. I've seen them from Dragon and Boar, at the very least. Okay, cool. Goat has been the lowest I tried so I'll stick to spamming those.
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Aug 3, 2015 14:44
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I wish PLD had something better than just shield wipe for tp management. As it is now its a dps loss to use the skill so I ignore most procs unless I'm dicking around on trash and want to hand out some pacifications. Also there are fights like A4 where there isnt any physical damage to even proc the skill except when the jagd dolls are up or you're OT in the photo booth. Or you're just straight up OT and aren't going to get any procs ever as a result so you just suffer with no TP.
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Aug 3, 2015 14:55
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What's the best way to get field and battlecraft demimateria? I see the master's books cost 5 of each. Is it just a good idea to create / buy a bunch of items that desynth into them and then hope for the best? Like I see the brass ring of crafting gives you fieldcraft, and the silver ring does for battlecraft.
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Aug 3, 2015 16:51
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seiferguy posted:What's the best way to get field and battlecraft demimateria? I see the master's books cost 5 of each. Is it just a good idea to create / buy a bunch of items that desynth into them and then hope for the best? Like I see the brass ring of crafting gives you fieldcraft, and the silver ring does for battlecraft. Quick synth like a hundred of each and then desynth them all
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Aug 3, 2015 17:07
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I've thought about it some more and paladin is the most screwed job right now when it comes to TP management. They have shield bash as a TP positive skill, but it's a DPS loss to use. No other physical class has to give up DPS to regain TP.
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Aug 3, 2015 17:19
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seiferguy posted:What's the best way to get field and battlecraft demimateria? I see the master's books cost 5 of each. Is it just a good idea to create / buy a bunch of items that desynth into them and then hope for the best? Like I see the brass ring of crafting gives you fieldcraft, and the silver ring does for battlecraft. I got a bunch of FC3s desynthing bridesmaid sandals while poopsocksing LTW desynth last night but they sold for roughly about as much as it cost to purchase enough sandals to cover the droprate of FC3s so basically the marketboard is always an option.
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Aug 3, 2015 17:21
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Boten Anna posted:I got a bunch of FC3s desynthing bridesmaid sandals while poopsocksing LTW desynth last night but they sold for roughly about as much as it cost to purchase enough sandals to cover the droprate of FC3s so basically the marketboard is always an option. I only want the FC1s / BC1s to get the masterbooks, mainly for  glamors because pretty much everything else made with higher stuff is easily outclassed by HW gear at this point. Looks like I'll be quick synthing a lot of stuff tonight!
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Aug 3, 2015 17:27
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seiferguy posted:I only want the FC1s / BC1s to get the masterbooks, mainly for I got a shitton of FC1s from quick synthing a bunch of lovely crafting and gathering ltw rings and desynthing them, so yeah that also works.
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Aug 3, 2015 17:29
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Probably too late to save you, but to anyone else, don't buy bridesmaid/bestman shoes from the mb since they're usually in the 15k+ range and you can buy them from a vendor in uldah for 6k
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Aug 3, 2015 17:31
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Sentient Data posted:Probably too late to save you, but to anyone else, don't buy bridesmaid/bestman shoes from the mb since they're usually in the 15k+ range and you can buy them from a vendor in uldah for 6k Oh no I did but i'd only get an FC3 roughly about as often as I'd spend 40-50k on them.
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Aug 3, 2015 17:37
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Mr. Nice! posted:I've thought about it some more and paladin is the most screwed job right now when it comes to TP management. They have shield bash as a TP positive skill, but it's a DPS loss to use. No other physical class has to give up DPS to regain TP. Paladins are kind of in a bad place right now. They have the weakest DPS, which is important for pushing new content. They have the least useful debuff, considering that most of the damage you have to worry about is magic, and it's a significant DPS loss to apply it. Most of their new abilities are underwhelming - Sheltron has proved to be useless for anything but mitigating auto-attacks, Divine Veil is finicky to use and doesn't make a huge difference, and Clemency's cast time is too long for emergency use and using it for anything else is just saving your healers a little bit of MP. The only thing paladins have going for them over the other two tanks is that they're tougher to take down, but that's not very valuable in the current paradigm. I think paladins really need some love.
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Aug 3, 2015 17:37
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Mr. Nice! posted:No other physical class has to give up DPS to regain TP. Dark Knight
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Aug 3, 2015 17:52
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Klades posted:Dark Knight I'll admit I don't know much about DRK right now. I still haven't leveled it much.
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Aug 3, 2015 17:56
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Fister Roboto posted:Paladins are kind of in a bad place right now. They have the weakest DPS, which is important for pushing new content. They have the least useful debuff, considering that most of the damage you have to worry about is magic, and it's a significant DPS loss to apply it. Most of their new abilities are underwhelming - Sheltron has proved to be useless for anything but mitigating auto-attacks, Divine Veil is finicky to use and doesn't make a huge difference, and Clemency's cast time is too long for emergency use and using it for anything else is just saving your healers a little bit of MP. The only thing paladins have going for them over the other two tanks is that they're tougher to take down, but that's not very valuable in the current paradigm. Paladins have some seriously gnarly DPS now, though. It's not to the level of warrior, but an OT PLD can dish out some serious numbers while also functioning as off-healer and letting your healers DPS more.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:02
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Fister Roboto posted:Paladins are kind of in a bad place right now. They have the weakest DPS, which is important for pushing new content. They have the least useful debuff, considering that most of the damage you have to worry about is magic, and it's a significant DPS loss to apply it. Most of their new abilities are underwhelming - Sheltron has proved to be useless for anything but mitigating auto-attacks, Divine Veil is finicky to use and doesn't make a huge difference, and Clemency's cast time is too long for emergency use and using it for anything else is just saving your healers a little bit of MP. The only thing paladins have going for them over the other two tanks is that they're tougher to take down, but that's not very valuable in the current paradigm. Of the 3 tanks, PLD does feel a little left behind in a lot of ways. We got 2 new combo's to use but they don't build aggro well (or at all) and we still have no AoE damage. Not that it's unplayable by any means (I main PLD still and haven't had any issues clearing stuff, though I've only done normal Alexander). I wish I could trigger Divine Veil with Clemency and I wish Clemency had a short cast time and slightly lower MP cost. I love the 2 new combos but it'd be nice to see some buffs in our AoE threat generation. I've done Alex2 a few times now with a DRK and WAR and it's so much easier for them to hang on to/steal groups of mobs it seems.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:04
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Cat Army
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Most PLDs are scared to use Clemency (or uninterested in doing so), or should do a better job communicating it with the healer. Build some rapport with your healers and you can get a good thing going between them. Honestly, I think all three tank classes are in a pretty good spot right now. PLDs are probably the weakest of the class right now, but by such a small margin.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:07
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seiferguy posted:Honestly, I think all three tank classes are in a pretty good spot right now. PLDs are probably the weakest of the class right now, but by such a small margin. I disagree in the sense that they simply don't have any real advantages, even in non-raiding content. In a dungeon, the thing I value the most is clearing it quickly, and Paladin is by far the slowest of the three tanks for doing this. It's not a minor difference: it's a Grand Canyon-sized gulf, and it's simply no longer acceptable in the face of what Warriors and Dark Knights can dish out. It'd be fine if Paladin brought superior single-target DPS, but they're outpaced in the OT role by Warriors and outpaced in the MT role by Dark Knights, so I'm simply dealing hundreds of DPS less than the other tanks over the course of a dungeon run. In "serious" content, Dark Knights are the desirable MTs due to Dark Mind and vastly superior damage (as well as Delirium if you don't have a Monk hanging around), and Warriors are the desirable OTs due to Storm's Path and straight-up better and more sustainable damage. Clemency is simply too clumsy to use except in niche circumstances, and Divine Veil absolutely sucks for the cooldown. I hate sounding like a negative nancy, but Paladins are falling further and further behind as far as usefulness (and, hell, as far as fun) goes. They're "okay," but that's the problem: they're merely "okay" in the sense that they're not unplayable, but any compelling argument about why you'd want to take a Paladin along rests almost entirely on "Clemency is kinda useful, sometimes, and you can skip a few mechanics with Hallowed Ground." It's not a solid foundation that they're resting on, right now.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:26
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PLD has a few problems compares to DRK -and- WAR that make it play like garbage, though.
Really, i'd be happy if PLD threat/damage was improved slightly & Shield Swipe got an OGCD revamp, but i'm not expecting even that. I love Paladin, but playing it in 4-mans is terror compared to having Overpower or Unleash.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:30
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The problem is that PLD is really good at mitigating damage and taking huge hits and that's what it's tooled for and probably always will be, but aside from a few occasional tankbusters, it's just not nearly as useful on current content as being able to contribute to DPS directly.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:33
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drat, now I feel bad for playing PLD...thematically it's my favorite tank still and I've yet to have anyone shame me for playing in game or anything.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:37
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Ouhei posted:drat, now I feel bad for playing PLD...thematically it's my favorite tank still and I've yet to have anyone shame me for playing in game or anything. the only place any of this matters is endgame content, and by that i mean alexander savage well i guess it matters in other things too if you're one of those weirdos who waves his dick around about how "difficult" your class is and therefore you're a superior player for it for some reason
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Aug 3, 2015 18:37
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And it's not like Paladins are even King poo poo of Survivability Mountain anymore, either. Block gives them a slight edge (against certain physical-only monsters, which are few and far between), but Sheltron is almost entirely useless for actually absorbing physical tankbusters because of how action queues work. They are garbage at facing down magical damage, and two of their defensive cooldowns can be accessed by the other tanks, all of whom have a plethora of survivability options now.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:38
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Boten Anna posted:The problem is that PLD is really good at mitigating damage and taking huge hits and that's what it's tooled for and probably always will be, but aside from a few occasional tankbusters, it's just not nearly as useful on current content as being able to contribute to DPS directly. That combined with a lot of the important tank busters in content being magic meaning Dark's Magic only defensive option is Really good at maintaining their survivability in a MT role
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Aug 3, 2015 18:39
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sword_man.gif posted:the only place any of this matters is endgame content, and by that i mean alexander savage The AoE damage thing matters, because if you're the only one doing proper damage, the PLD might finish his run in 35 minutes, while the DRK finishes in 30 and the WAR finishes in 25. It's a big difference, and it really sucks, even if it is mostly QoL with other good players.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:41
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i'm not real bent out of shape over the tank's aoe potential maybe adding a little time to the run when a lot is going to be added because i got a blm that doesn't use enochian because "it makes the rotation too hard"
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Aug 3, 2015 18:45
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sword_man.gif posted:i'm not real bent out of shape over the tank's aoe potential maybe adding a little time to the run when a lot is going to be added because i got a blm that doesn't use enochian because "it makes the rotation too hard" 
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Aug 3, 2015 18:46
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sword_man.gif posted:i'm not real bent out of shape over the tank's aoe potential maybe adding a little time to the run when a lot is going to be added because i got a blm that doesn't use enochian because "it makes the rotation too hard" That's the case where I care the most, because it means the dungeon's gonna drag on for like fourty loving minutes if I can't contribute anything more than 23 AoE DPS per second.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:47
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Dragoons, for AoE at 60 (say, against 3 targets) is it better to just single target and Geirskogul everything, or would I want to stick to HT->RoT and DS spam, and just forget about Blood and Geirskogul?
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Aug 3, 2015 18:53
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Why would you not want to Dragon Blast all of the things?
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Aug 3, 2015 18:59
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Ouhei posted:drat, now I feel bad for playing PLD...thematically it's my favorite tank still and I've yet to have anyone shame me for playing in game or anything. You shouldn't feel bad unless you're in a savage static and wiping at 1%. Paladins are perfectly fine for anything short of that. Vermain posted:Sheltron is almost entirely useless for actually absorbing physical tankbusters because of how action queues work. This is one thing that actually makes me angry. They give us this ability that would be amazing at mitigating physical tankbusters (seriously, I would have loved to have Sheltron in Final Coil because every boss had one), and then they design encounters to make it nearly worthless for one reason or another.
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Aug 3, 2015 19:02
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HT > RoT > DS spam, but pop blood to buff jumps and a pop a geirskogul. Assuming you don't need to save it for something soon.
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Aug 3, 2015 19:07
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Why would you not want to Dragon Blast all of the things? It conflicts with my desire to get the hell out of the dungeon and away from the bard doing 400 DPS in AoE, mostly.  (in other words,  MY DPS )
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Aug 3, 2015 19:08
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Pages of people posting about how DRK doesn't feel as good as the other tanks, World first teams clear floors of Savage with DRK, pages of people posting about how PLD doesn't feel as good as the other tanks.  Honestly don't really have a lot of sympathy. DPS roles have been dealing with this sort of thing since launch, and AST is dealing with it right now too. In a perfect world balance would be perfect but lol. It's entirely possibly the next set of Alexander floors will be chock full of physical damage tankbusters. Magic damage is just the flavor of this particular month. 2 SPOOKY fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Aug 3, 2015 |
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Aug 3, 2015 19:16
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