Knyteguy's Finances: More harebrained schemes than a sitcom dad

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OneWhoKnows: Dec 6, 2006; I choo choo choooose you!

KG, I wonder if you and I have the same feeling towards raises. At the beginning of the year, I was promised a raise, but month after month (for ~7 months), I was told there were HR hangups and other processes waiting for approval. I was starting to get disgruntled and lose a bit of steam for my work. I asked if there was anything I could do to push the process through and they mentioned a competing offer could fast-track things.

So, I did and literally within 2 weeks I was making 20% more. I know your work situation is different, but I think your mentality might be similar to mine during those months between the raise "notification" and getting an actual raise: wherein my thinking was something along the lines of, "Well, I am fairly well compensated already and it's not like I NEED the money, even though it would be nice. Plus, I don't want to make them angry/annoyed for bothering them so much or making them feel like they're being forced to give me a raise." Oh, and there were layoffs and pay increase freezes in-between during a down period, so I justified it further by saying well I should just consider myself lucky for having a job!

What it comes down to is: If you're valued as an employee, if you're key to some of the things they do and they'd be hard pressed to replace you, they should also compensate you accordingly. It's business, nothing else.

Either way, man, good luck with all of this stuff.

# ? Aug 1, 2015 13:41

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# ? May 12, 2024 07:54

My Rhythmic Crotch: Jan 13, 2011

^ It doesn't always work out like that, you need to be fully prepared to take the other job.

Also to everyone griping about getting equity, not all startups do that, and generally speaking, you'd be working your rear end off for several years to even get the chance to convert that equity to cash. Basically a lot of startups pay poo poo and work you to death by saying "but you get equity!!!". It's not a situation I'd want to be in with a wife and a kid, honestly.

In December 2014, I posted that I felt his salary should be at about $75k based on surveying what was available in the area and his experience level. I still feel like that would be a pretty good target. The extra bump in income would work wonders provided it was put towards paying down debt.

# ? Aug 1, 2015 18:46

OneWhoKnows: Dec 6, 2006; I choo choo choooose you!

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

^ It doesn't always work out like that, you need to be fully prepared to take the other job.

Oh, definitely. I figured that was a given, but it's always good to note.

# ? Aug 1, 2015 22:59

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

Old Fart posted:

So you've got shares or a partnership or whatever it is these things do? My primary experience is from watching Silicon Valley, so I'm not quite sure how it works. If not, even if it does take off, you ain't gettin' dick. At best you get some token gift.

No I don't think I do. Yeah some token gift likely.

This from the same guy who said he'd give you a raise if you got an offer? The same guy who gets to enjoy the salary, health benefits, pension plan, stock options, and whatever else come with a corporate gig, and also gets to have a real nice expense report for his bosses because he's hired out such cheap labour outside of their system?

I think the health benefits are actually worse there, but yes.

But okay, there's a payroll freeze at a company where you're not an employee. This is when you negotiate non-financial benefits. This is when you lay out how when you joined up with him, the startup was about to go big, you didn't have experience, and you didn't have any home responsibilities. Today, the startup is on the back burner, you have a ton of experience, and you're starting a new family. There has got to be something that he can provide that will help your current situation. Time to think outside the goddamn box here. If he's as swell of a guy as you claim he is, he'll be willing to work with you.

Will think some more. He's proven himself to be a good guy so far.

So what makes you think you'll reap the rewards? Either get actively involved, or get yourself hired at a higher rate by the parent company. If your boss is able to work there and still be a part of this vapourware startup, why can't you do the same?

Yeah I've been thinking of bringing this offer to him for a long time. Like hey "I'll be willing to work after hours on [startup] (for lack of a better word I guess), in exchange for some equity in the company".

Here's potentially something. If this dude wants you so involved in his business, and he's aware he can't pay you more, then it's time to start training you, and giving you time to learn new things.

To be fair this is something he's been doing. He's aiming to get me to technical architect on Dynamics AX which makes mid $100,000. I don't know if this is the path I want to follow though.

I mean, it seems like you spend a fair bit of time at work posting on here, no? How about you increase your productivity and free up some time to do all this other poo poo that leads to the better money?

It depends. I've been posting more the past few days as I just finished a mobile app that should really increase revenue and decrease costs, but I've been less available as a whole due to getting there (it was more like 7 apps in one package). To really get better money though I need to work on my basics. I've enrolled in a HarvardX (might be the wrong name here) class for some CS data structure fundamentals, and that along with some algorithm practice that I've been doing and will continue to do will help me become less of a "developer" and more of a "software engineer". At least that's my hope. Tough to do with the baby and my wife's crappy hours right now however, so I'm hoping to ramp this up in the near future.

Plus, setting up a multi-monitor system is not that expensive. It's an easy write-off to get you set up with a loaner system to work at home more, so that you can be around your brand new child. I don't know much about business, but I worked for small firms that had to buy a bunch of poo poo at the end of every year to keep a certain tax status. There's room in the budget for a $400 display. Hell, throw it in with that startup so that you can actually work on the startup. From home.

Unfortunately working at home wouldn't mean more baby time. If August is successful budget-wise then I'll look into something like this.

I mean, gently caress, what's the point of working if not to create a better life for yourself? Negotiate that better life now.

Old Fart posted:

To be clear, I'm not advocating marching into your boss' office and slamming your fist down while screaming, "This is bullshit!" I just want you to think a little bit about quality of life, and how you can be fairly compensated in ways that don't involve a raise. In your shoes I'd be deathly afraid about losing my job, so I wouldn't want to make waves either. I just think there has to be some way you can approach your boss like a bro and make a case for more benefits. Of course, it will also require you to step up your game and show how you're more valuable now than when you were first hired. But in order to do that, you really need to think about what you might want in the first place.

I am afraid of a layoffs a little bit. I at least feel a little more secure that if I was to get laid off, it would likely be a non-fault dismissal, and also that if they do decide to lay me off, then they'll need to start bringing in different consultants who cost way more than me (like $300/hr from the main consultant firm). And their consultants are not very good developers (or at least their code surely doesn't reflect that). Luckily my boss used to work for that same consultancy firm, so he knows those facts as well.

I think if I'm going to do this raise thing, then it needs to be a little bit in the future. Maybe a month or two, as I just talked to him about raises last week or so. I also need a plan of action as a couple of you have mentioned. I'd be happy to post if when/if I come up with something.

BloodBag posted:

It's not like it was free money, just put it back where it came from. Not like I'm one to talk, I'm a loving moron with 'windfalls'. Don't do what I used to do and buy booze and drink it up.

Hm well we're basically where we want to be with the emergency fund without that money. I'll figure it out in a little bit, but it shouldn't be hard. Either way most of it is either getting saved or put towards debt,

OneWhoKnows posted:

KG, I wonder if you and I have the same feeling towards raises. At the beginning of the year, I was promised a raise, but month after month (for ~7 months), I was told there were HR hangups and other processes waiting for approval. I was starting to get disgruntled and lose a bit of steam for my work. I asked if there was anything I could do to push the process through and they mentioned a competing offer could fast-track things.

So, I did and literally within 2 weeks I was making 20% more. I know your work situation is different, but I think your mentality might be similar to mine during those months between the raise "notification" and getting an actual raise: wherein my thinking was something along the lines of, "Well, I am fairly well compensated already and it's not like I NEED the money, even though it would be nice. Plus, I don't want to make them angry/annoyed for bothering them so much or making them feel like they're being forced to give me a raise." Oh, and there were layoffs and pay increase freezes in-between during a down period, so I justified it further by saying well I should just consider myself lucky for having a job!

What it comes down to is: If you're valued as an employee, if you're key to some of the things they do and they'd be hard pressed to replace you, they should also compensate you accordingly. It's business, nothing else.

Either way, man, good luck with all of this stuff.

A little yeah. I mean I went from $11/hr part time to $60,000/yr and it involved way less bullshit even (that company had literal cameras behind employees watching them work. It was a 5 man operation). I find it crazy that I make what I do (not that most of BFC doesn't dwarf me if that BFC income data was correct). I don't feel like we'd ever need more, so it makes it a little tougher to get going as you said.

Thanks.

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

^ It doesn't always work out like that, you need to be fully prepared to take the other job.

Also to everyone griping about getting equity, not all startups do that, and generally speaking, you'd be working your rear end off for several years to even get the chance to convert that equity to cash. Basically a lot of startups pay poo poo and work you to death by saying "but you get equity!!!". It's not a situation I'd want to be in with a wife and a kid, honestly.

In December 2014, I posted that I felt his salary should be at about $75k based on surveying what was available in the area and his experience level. I still feel like that would be a pretty good target. The extra bump in income would work wonders provided it was put towards paying down debt.

Yeah I think one of the reasons I didn't get offered equity, is because I do get paid fairly well (especially considering my experience level, lack of degree, and work history when I started, and then also the city I live in).

Thanks for linking that. I knew I went into the job situation before! $75k sounds like a pretty good number, as that's what I would have been around at that job in Virginia. If I can get an offer there, then I can get an offer here. Again I really like the idea of working where my wife will work if she gets this job, as it would simplify our situation quite a bit. We wouldn't see each other all the time or something, so it wouldn't be that bad

.

I think I got to everything. Anyone feel free to ask for clarifications or just speak up if I missed something.

# ? Aug 1, 2015 23:03

Uncle Jam: Aug 20, 2005; Perfect

In my experience the 'token gift' for generating mounds of revenue when you have nothing written into your employment agreement usually amounts to a dinner with the boss at a chop house. It's worse than getting nothing imo.

# ? Aug 2, 2015 01:13

PurpleButterfly: Nov 5, 2012

Knyteguy posted:

I find it crazy that I make what I do (not that most of BFC doesn't dwarf me if that BFC income data was correct). I don't feel like we'd ever need more,

You will when your kid is old enough to have his own interests and wants to take up a sport/activity/hobby.

OK, snark aside: longtime reader, first-time poster. I've read this thread all the way through (been following it pretty much since the beginning, I think), and I am still rooting for you. Keep making strides toward paying down debt. :unsmith:

# ? Aug 2, 2015 02:07

Inverse Icarus: Dec 4, 2003; I run SyncRPG, and produce original, digital content for the Pathfinder RPG, designed from the ground up to be played online.

Knyteguy posted:

I find it crazy that I make what I do (not that most of BFC doesn't dwarf me if that BFC income data was correct). I don't feel like we'd ever need more, so it makes it a little tougher to get going as you said.

i really don't understand this line of thinking at all

you should be constantly becoming worth more money to a company due to your experience and increased responsibility

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkP_OGDCLY0

60,000 is the biggest number!

# ? Aug 2, 2015 09:46

Duckman2008: Jan 6, 2010; TFW you see Flyers goaltending.; Grimey Drawer

Knyteguy posted:

A little yeah. I mean I went from $11/hr part time to $60,000/yr and it involved way less bullshit even (that company had literal cameras behind employees watching them work. It was a 5 man operation). I find it crazy that I make what I do (not that most of BFC doesn't dwarf me if that BFC income data was correct). I don't feel like we'd ever need more, so it makes it a little tougher to get going as you said.

Business is business, while it is natural to feel emotionally satisfied where you are at, you shouldn't feel like you owe the company you work for (or however your setup is) anything. That doesn't mean be a dick, but you always have to make sure you know that you are prioritizing you first. Because when poo poo hits the fan, it's rare to have a company that will take a risk to back an employee.

# ? Aug 2, 2015 11:12

Old Fart: Jul 25, 2013

Thanks for the response, KG.

Knyteguy posted:

To be fair this is something he's been doing. He's aiming to get me to technical architect on Dynamics AX which makes mid $100,000. I don't know if this is the path I want to follow though.

Honestly, too bad. This is the path you're on. You're being mentored by somebody who has been successful doing this and wants to show you the way.

You have a child now. Your life is not about you any more. I know you're still young and have a great deal of identity tied up in what you "do" for a living. But that poo poo don't matter. Hardly anybody on this planet is doing anything important. You are always replaceable at any job. You are NOT replaceable to you son.

Your time to find yourself and decide what you want to do when you grow up is over. You have a pretty juicy path being laid down at your feet. Run, don't walk, down it. Once you're securely down that path and have more experience and networking contacts, then maybe leverage it to something else.

Your path right now is to provide for your child. If your boss wants to groom you to double your salary, LET HIM.

# ? Aug 2, 2015 15:02

n8r: Jul 3, 2003; I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar

Nice post, good response.

# ? Aug 2, 2015 21:19

My Rhythmic Crotch: Jan 13, 2011

Here's my alternative interpretation of this:

quote:

To be fair this is something he's been doing. He's aiming to get me to technical architect on Dynamics AX which makes mid $100,000. I don't know if this is the path I want to follow though.

If a complicated series of events (which the boss probably has no control over) play out just perfectly, then he's thinking about making you the technical architect, and that series of events could take months or years to come to fruition, and would last for some unknown amount of time.

My experience is that managers routinely bend or overstate the truth based on some hypothetical best-case scenario. I'd hardly call it a foregone conclusion at this point that there will be a position at that company to make mid-100s. Or I suppose, if you want to make mid-100s, don't hang around waiting on a project to materialize that the boss is talking up, especially not one based on proprietary crap like AX.

Also this:

quote:

Your time to find yourself and decide what you want to do when you grow up is over.

Is really sad. It's also kinda out of touch with the engineering/technology/software world because you've always got to learn new stuff, and picking the wrong new thing to spend your time on would be bad.

e: spelling

My Rhythmic Crotch fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Aug 3, 2015

# ? Aug 3, 2015 19:43

Old Fart: Jul 25, 2013

Well, doesn't it beat what he's doing now? Is it a bad thing to say, "hey boss, let's find a way to work on that thing you said, I'm really eager to learn that stuff"? Then he could get paid training, over and above whatever else he studies on his own. He also strengthens his professional network, as I'm sure boss-man would feel some ownership and pride in his loyal protege.

# ? Aug 3, 2015 20:51

Knyteguy: Jul 6, 2005; YES to love
NO to shirts; Toilet Rascal

^ Will get to some points tomorrow; I'm currently time constrained. I just want to throw this out there - my wife got an offer for that job! Her retail days are coming to an end soon. Thank God.

$13.75/hr

Benefits:

http://i.imgur.com/q5NtPLY.png

Not sure how much benefits currently cost us, and I can't check at the moment. I'd like to see if we could go without vision insurance. Then I'd like a quote on dental as well since I can figure out how much we roughly spend every year pretty easily.

M-F 8:00am-5:00pm + holidays.

# ? Aug 3, 2015 22:46

n8r: Jul 3, 2003; I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar

I'd be surprised if you can opt out of one portion of the benefits, it'd be an HR nightmare. Congrats to KGwife! Hopefully there is some serious job growth potential in this company.

# ? Aug 3, 2015 22:55

Inept: Jul 8, 2003

What the hell happened at the end of the Employee Assistance Program section?

Otherwise, congrats!

# ? Aug 3, 2015 22:55

flynt: Dec 30, 2006; Triggerhappy and gunshy

n8r posted:

I'd be surprised if you can opt out of one portion of the benefits, it'd be an HR nightmare. Congrats to KGwife! Hopefully there is some serious job growth potential in this company.

It's not standard to be able to opt in/out of dental and vision? I skip vision coverage and just assumed that was a normal thing in places that offered it.

# ? Aug 3, 2015 23:16

ITM: Oct 23, 2010

Congratulations Knytewife! That is excellent news.

# ? Aug 3, 2015 23:20

ladyweapon: Nov 6, 2010; It reads all over his face,
like he's an Italian.

Knyteguy posted:

^ Will get to some points tomorrow; I'm currently time constrained. I just want to throw this out there - my wife got an offer for that job! Her retail days are coming to an end soon. Thank God.

$13.75/hr

M-F 8:00am-5:00pm + holidays.

Congrats to knytewife!

# ? Aug 4, 2015 01:40

RheaConfused: Jan 22, 2004; I feel the need.
The need... for

flynt posted:

It's not standard to be able to opt in/out of dental and vision? I skip vision coverage and just assumed that was a normal thing in places that offered it.

Yeah, it's normal and easy where I am. I don't cover my husband but his job doesn't offer dental so he's on only my dental. No one batted an eyelash.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 01:59

Old Fart: Jul 25, 2013

That's awesome, congratulations!

# ? Aug 4, 2015 02:11

Uncle Jam: Aug 20, 2005; Perfect

All services received are stickly confidential. Runt fuga.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 03:31

ITM: Oct 23, 2010

Edit: Double post sorry

ITM fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 4, 2015

# ? Aug 4, 2015 04:05

SiGmA_X: May 3, 2004; SiGmA_X

Better benefits, better pay and no more loving retail! Go KnyteWife!!

n8r posted:

I'd be surprised if you can opt out of one portion of the benefits, it'd be an HR nightmare. Congrats to KGwife! Hopefully there is some serious job growth potential in this company.

I've never had a company that didn't let you do that. Even the 5 person auto shop...

flynt posted:

It's not standard to be able to opt in/out of dental and vision? I skip vision coverage and just assumed that was a normal thing in places that offered it.

Very common.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 04:46

n8r: Jul 3, 2003; I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar

Interesting that they let people opt out. If one of my employees wanted to opt out, I'd simply keep the money. The reason you pay for dental/vision is so your employees can see and don't have rotting teeth (and attract employees).

# ? Aug 4, 2015 15:09

No Butt Stuff: Jun 10, 2004

Yeah, if you opt out, they aren't going to give you any extra money.

That's not how America works.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 15:12

Series DD Funding: Nov 25, 2014; by exmarx

My dental and vision options are fully unsubsidized so there's no money to keep. Also vision insurance is a scam for anyone who's capable of saving money :ssh:

So is dental unless you have lovely teeth

# ? Aug 4, 2015 16:01

Antifreeze Head: Jun 6, 2005; It begins; Pillbug

Series DD Funding posted:

My dental and vision options are fully unsubsidized so there's no money to keep. Also vision insurance is a scam for anyone who's capable of saving money So is dental unless you have lovely teeth

At some point the vision industry will have to revolutionize to charge more for the exam than the glasses that everyone will eventually just order from China, until then keep getting your checkups for free.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 16:30

BloodBag: Sep 20, 2008; WITNESS ME!

Inept posted:

What the hell happened at the end of the Employee Assistance Program section?

Otherwise, congrats!

Looks like they left the lorem ipsum filler text in there. Real great QC they got there.

Grats KG.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 16:46

Star War Sex Parrot: Oct 2, 2003

BloodBag posted:

Looks like they left the lorem ipsum filler text in there. Real great QC they got there.

"Tuition" is spelled wrong in the tuition reimbursement section, along with a few other spelling errors throughout.

BloodBag posted:

Grats KG.

Indeed. It's definitely a step up from retail.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 16:51

foxatee: Feb 27, 2010; That foxatee is always making a Piggles out of herself.

Congrats, KG Wife! Many people never get out of retail. Glad to see you will.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 16:54

SiGmA_X: May 3, 2004; SiGmA_X

n8r posted:

Interesting that they let people opt out. If one of my employees wanted to opt out, I'd simply keep the money. The reason you pay for dental/vision is so your employees can see and don't have rotting teeth (and attract employees).

Vision is kind of worthless for people with good vision. I go to an ophthalmologist instead of an optometrist and my medical insurance covers it.

Dental insurance is a mixed bag. Currently I pay $50 a year for insurance and it covers everything. No copays, nothing. At my last employer, it was $300+ a year, and my dentist charges $125x2 for my biannual cleanings and $70ish for X-rays. As such, it's way cheaper to pay out of pocket.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 16:56

Grumpwagon: May 6, 2007; I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.

Series DD Funding posted:

My dental and vision options are fully unsubsidized so there's no money to keep. Also vision insurance is a scam for anyone who's capable of saving money So is dental unless you have lovely teeth

Do the math on this before deciding KG. It depends on the situation.

I have combined dental and vision (you opt in or out of them as a pair). Even if I didn't need glasses, and even if I don't need any services besides cleanings, it would still be cheaper to pay the insurance than to pay the dentist for twice yearly cleanings out of pocket. Obviously this is because my employer subsidizes some of the cost of the insurance, but even if I opted out, they wouldn't give me that subsidy, so it makes no sense to opt out.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 17:09

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

SiGmA_X posted:

Vision is kind of worthless for people with good vision. I go to an ophthalmologist instead of an optometrist and my medical insurance covers it.

Dental insurance is a mixed bag. Currently I pay $50 a year for insurance and it covers everything. No copays, nothing. At my last employer, it was $300+ a year, and my dentist charges $125x2 for my biannual cleanings and $70ish for X-rays. As such, it's way cheaper to pay out of pocket.

Until your vision starts to go bad from getting old and staring at computers.

Just had to get glasses with prism to stop my computer headhurts. I'm only 27 #howdidthishappentome???

silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Aug 4, 2015

# ? Aug 4, 2015 17:41

n8r: Jul 3, 2003; I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar

SiGmA_X posted:

Vision is kind of worthless for people with good vision. I go to an ophthalmologist instead of an optometrist and my medical insurance covers it.

Dental insurance is a mixed bag. Currently I pay $50 a year for insurance and it covers everything. No copays, nothing. At my last employer, it was $300+ a year, and my dentist charges $125x2 for my biannual cleanings and $70ish for X-rays. As such, it's way cheaper to pay out of pocket.

It's cheaper until something serious happens like you get a tooth chipped/knocked out/etc. Dental insurance is not worthless, especially if you have a limited safety net.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 18:56

slap me silly: Nov 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Every dental plan I've ever been offered has had a deductible that made it useless for minor things, plus a cap on benefits that made it useless for major things. Though they vary I suppose.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 19:05

Bugamol: Aug 2, 2006

slap me silly posted:

Every dental plan I've ever been offered has had a deductible that made it useless for minor things, plus a cap on benefits that made it useless for major things. Though they vary I suppose.

My dental benefits are pretty amazing:

Annual Deductible Individual/Family $50
Is the Deductible Waived for Diagnostic & Preventive Yes
Calendar Year Maximum $2,000
Limit 2 cleanings per year, bitewings 2x per year, full mouth X-rays once every 3 years, fluoride treatment, sealants and space maintainers for dependent children 100%
Oral surgery (extractions), fillings, root canals, periodontic (gum) treatment, tissue removal (biopsy), sealants 80%
Crowns, cast restorations 80%
Prosthodontics (bridges, partial dentures, full dentures) 50%
Employee Contribution $15

Again - People hate on corporate jobs a lot, but you can't beat the benefits.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 19:16

slap me silly: Nov 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

That's about what my plan looks like, too. Insurance with a $180/yr cost and $2000/yr maximum payout is rather limited and quite expensive! I would certainly not call it amazing. I only spend about $180/yr just paying out of pocket, and $2000 of coverage give or take will not be a deciding factor when I eventually need major work done.

# ? Aug 4, 2015 19:58

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Who doesn't love the feeling of having their teeth all squeeky clean and plaque free after the 2 free preventative visits? Also free extra tooth brush to keep in gymbags and weird places at work (just in case i have a meeting and fear i sit near someone with garlic breath)

# ? Aug 4, 2015 20:12

Grumpwagon: May 6, 2007; I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.

slap me silly posted:

That's about what my plan looks like, too. Insurance with a $180/yr cost and $2000/yr maximum payout is rather limited and quite expensive! I would certainly not call it amazing. I only spend about $180/yr just paying out of pocket, and $2000 of coverage give or take will not be a deciding factor when I eventually need major work done.

If your appointments out of pocket cost $180, but with insurance, they are free, and your insurance is $180 a year, why wouldn't you pay for the insurance?

# ? Aug 4, 2015 20:20

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# ? May 12, 2024 07:54

ladyweapon: Nov 6, 2010; It reads all over his face,
like he's an Italian.

n8r posted:

It's cheaper until something serious happens like you get a tooth chipped/knocked out/etc. Dental insurance is not worthless, especially if you have a limited safety net.

An untreated abscess (from a chipped/knocked out tooth, gingivitis, etc) can turn into a jaw infection which can be fatal. I don't doubt KG & KGWife would hit a dentist, insurance or not, at the point a painful abscess became an issue (if not before), but a lot of people don't realize dental problems can lead to worse things than losing your teeth.

My company covers my health insurance all together. My copay is ~$10, but I pay 50% of most major dental procedures. I had to have a bridge and a crown in the last year, insurance covered 50% of the crown (~$650), but none of the bridge. Before 2013 I'd never had insurance outside state subsidized programs like medi-cal,etc. Everyone I asked about what I need to do re: finding out about coverage said to just let the provider take care of the authorization and don't worry otherwise. Dental insurance seems a lot more particular than regular health insurance, here's my boring story about it.

My dentist said they verified the bridge was covered 50% same as the crown, had a little form that I didn't examine closely showing a response from the insurance company, and since everything went smoothly with the other procedures I signed the financial payment documents for the $1000 not covered by insurance. Fortunately for me, they specify a dollar value. I could have paid upfront, but it's in-house 0% financing, so why not? A couple weeks later I got a bill for $2200 from my dentist after insurance rejected it. They rejected it, as they stated they would on the response form I didn't inspect terribly close, because the middle tooth of the bridge was previously removed (10 years ago, but nonetheless). One sentence in two paragraphs my dental people overlooked and I trusted them to take care of it instead of inspecting everything like I tend to do. I offered to pay about $200 over what I would otherwise agreed to that day if they zeroed the rest of the balance. They took the offer & we called it square. If I had spoken to someone at my insurance company, or read/gotten copies of every document involved in the process, I would have known it wasn't actually covered and just saved up the cash to pay it or figured out some other option.

ladyweapon fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Aug 5, 2015

# ? Aug 5, 2015 04:02

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Knyteguy's Finances: More harebrained schemes than a sitcom dad

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