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I may regret buying a Houshou, but I doubt I'll regret it as much as trying to play the Albany. 
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Aug 4, 2015 19:45
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In tanks there are several ways to put out reliable damage while taking none in return. In boats the only way is to play a bomber loadout carrier. You can try to minimize the damage you take and maximize the damage you do, but it only goes so far. And even in fights between relatively accurate cruisers, the most effective damage dealing method (AP citadel penetrations) is significantly affected by uncontrollable random factors. Only carriers and destroyers with better torpedo range than spotting range are relatively free of random elements, and the destroyers stop being strong enough to do much carrying before long. Random factors have a lot more influence on this game than on tanks, both in terms of actual randomness like shell spreads and of quasi random things like "who does the enemy carrier decide to bomb first" and "is the enemy battleship stupid enough to drive into your 9 km torpedoes". I have something like a 63% win rate that seems like it's not entirely due to small sample size (will probably be lower by the time I finish the Furutaka  ). I don't keep track, but given the ship type I'm driving I think the overwhelming majority of my losses are games that nothing could have salvaged. I also haven't played enough to get past tier 5.
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Aug 4, 2015 19:52
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rossmum posted:Enemy BB crawled into the thunderdome in the north of the ice map, within 3km of my Atago, and didn't change course or speed. He ate torps and died, and raged the gently caress out. See but this kind of highlights how loving broken the game is right now. And I am actually being serious here. As a battleship you need to close distance or you wont hit poo poo except other battleships, you'll slowly die to HE spamming cruisers you can't hit. If you go in close and your team doesn't support you, you die to DDs instead. Or even better you get nuked by a loving CV and can't do anything about it either. You just can't have a class that is weak to all others and the only strenght BBs have right now is nuking DD with secondaries or citadeling cruisers who are too retarded and get too close so you can actually hit them.
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Aug 4, 2015 19:55
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For anyone interested, have a little showcase replay on how to brawl other BBs in the Nagato. It's a mostly uneventful match until the end, when I go full Thunderdome against a Fuso and a Colorado and proceede to slug it out with both of them simultaneously. Not all that exciting to watch, but it provides a good example on how to angle yourself and where to aim in a knifefight between the big boats.
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Aug 4, 2015 20:18
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Tahirovic posted:See but this kind of highlights how loving broken the game is right now. And I am actually being serious here. Source your quotes. Battleships drivers are scum, just like heavy tonks drivers, gently caress them repeatedly with a cactus.
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Aug 4, 2015 20:18
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Tahirovic posted:See but this kind of highlights how loving broken the game is right now. And I am actually being serious here. I managed to drive over an enemy DD with my South Carolina because they had enough dispersion on their torps that I was able to just run right through the middle of their broadside and they were too dumb to move. The rage there was pretty funny, but I don't have any screenshots. Also had a match in my Wickes where I took out a cruiser and two other destroyers because they were scoped in on somebody else on my team and not looking around as I got close and torped them, that was amazing.
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Aug 4, 2015 20:22
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Pubbies tried really hard to lose this game. Couldn't cap a single flag and the enemy got up to 800 points. So I fixed it! Five kills and 80,000 damage later.    Replay link.  The Cleveland can citadel things, it just requires perfect conditions and angles. It's very rare that I can citadel another Cleve, though. Still having fun with the Omaha, though, despite some clumsy ship-handling on my part.    Replay link.
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Aug 4, 2015 20:24
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Tahirovic posted:See but this kind of highlights how loving broken the game is right now. And I am actually being serious here. Then stop sniping in a BB. You have a ton of HP and a ton of armor, get closer and smash cruisers. Have cruisers around to help keep DD's away or dead, and friendly DDs to scout and torp enemies who close in to torp you. I had a pretty balls to the wall Kongo game on Two Brothers where I barreled right through D, smoked some nerds and dodged torpedoes along the way, and just kept rolling right into their team. The enemy soaked me with HE, but my close range AP murdered them, and my team followed behind me begging me to slow down (gently caress YOU IM A KONGO). We absolutely crushed that flank, as after I died the enemy was scattered, out of position, and under focused fire from our team. All because they were so focused on firing HE at the BB and not killing the cruisers and BBs who were right behind me. Sure, BBs can snipe. But spending the whole match sniping at CAs and missing because of dispersion won't win you games.
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Aug 4, 2015 20:25
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Enduring the suffering that is the Furutaka was pretty gruesome on the homestretch but man was it worth it. The stock Aoba is awesome and it can even do something about skycancer other than throwing rocks.
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Aug 4, 2015 20:38
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Uh that's my point, I don't snipe in my BB because dispersion is just too poo poo past something like 10km. Battleships are just worse cruisers right now and that needs to be changed. What is the counter for a HE spamming cleveland who stays at 12km ? Yes it's other cruisers.
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Aug 4, 2015 20:41
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It seems to me like BBs are just worse cruisers if you aren't/can't maneuver them into a position to make citadel hits. I feel like the thing that puts BBs over Cruisers in terms of roles is that a BB cannon hitting a citadel loving trashes things. My first game in the Myogi I haphazardly launched a volley at something at max range and lucked out and hit the citadel and did over 3/4 his HP in damage.
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Aug 4, 2015 20:59
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Hazdoc posted:Sure, BBs can snipe. But spending the whole match sniping at CAs and missing because of dispersion won't win you games. I think his point is that the whole "Get in and brawl!" thing is much harder to pull off in higher tiers because it's easy for a high-tier cruiser to kite a battleship around, and it seems to be pretty much common knowledge at this point to turn away from a battleship if it tries to close in the distance and press left and right when it occasionally tries to shell you. Hell, it's more beneficial for a cruiser to immediately target the biggest, baddest battleship he can find at the beginning of a match, get his attention, and either force him to turn away with pure HE fires or pretty much kite him to death. You also have better concealment in a cruiser, and in the case of the Japanese, you have torpedoes, which are really good anti-battleship weapons versus slow BB's. You make mentions to the Kongo, but the Kongo's fast speed and great armor make her such a stand-out case that it simply passes a wrong impression for the rest of the line. The Kongo can close in to cruiser distances much faster than other battleships, and eliminate targets in a tier where people frankly don't seem too bothered about showing you their broadsides. That poo poo unfortunately just doesn't stick as you go up. Not trying to play devil's advocate here (though I will, since I play mainly BB's), but the secret weapon that BB's have which is the high citadel damage on pens? It's loving hard to do at high tiers, man. A shell which does massive damage is still useless when the enemy player has such a high impact on whether it's going to hit or not. Cruisers don't have to worry about that, because their reload and speed is good. Destroyers get a little bit more hosed over since their reloads get worse with the tiers, but they get better launchers to compensate and can still remain hidden when they launch torps. And carriers can hardly be bothered by the prospect when they have a hangar with more than fifty planes on it they can just throw at you. What does a BB have? Some hosed up accuracy and repair. Great! But you only have three of the things. Better use them well. OSad fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Aug 4, 2015 |
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Aug 4, 2015 21:08
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BBs would be a lot of fun if their secondaries were manually operated and aimed at the same point your main guns are aimed. It would make them insanely dangerous up close.
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Aug 4, 2015 21:15
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Magni posted:For anyone interested, have a little showcase replay on how to brawl other BBs in the Nagato. It's a mostly uneventful match until the end, when I go full Thunderdome against a Fuso and a Colorado and proceede to slug it out with both of them simultaneously. Not all that exciting to watch, but it provides a good example on how to angle yourself and where to aim in a knifefight between the big boats. Edit: Also the futility of predicting a match based on team lineup. Enemy team starts off doomsaying, then the Iowa and North Carolina on your team quickly suicide into torps. Other team probably would have won if you had not citadeled so many cruisers to 1/4 health. grrarg fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Aug 4, 2015 |
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Aug 4, 2015 21:25
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I'll address the issue with broken mods since the update but sorry for not quoting the requestor. The paths.xml file is always updated after a patch so go grab the contents of the previous mods folder, dunno it in the new mods folder if the patch created one and voila. There have been a couple of times where it did not create a new folder and reinstalling worked. Conversely you can note the name of the new mods folder, reinstall Aslain's and edit the path to point to the new folder while dumping the contents in the but more  Hope that helped.
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Aug 4, 2015 22:34
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The thing about complaints regarding cruisers kiting battleships is severalfold. First is that this is ultimately a game about controlling points, not killing the enemy team. FORCE them to come to you, instead of chasing them around the map, by occupying a point and making them have to close to contest it. Best example I can think of off the top of my head is from CBT. I was in a Nagato, with the mission being Domination on Hotspot. Contrary to the pubbie meta, which generally devolves into going in wide circles around the map, I joined two destroyers and occupied the central point. Multiple cruisers and destroyers from the enemy side straggled in to try and contest it, and got blown apart in turn, whether by torpedoes or guns. Sure, a concerted and coordinated push would probably have pushed me off/killed me, but at the same time that's vanishingly rare. And given how spread out the starting points and caps are on Hotspot, it probably would have required coordination from ships not necessarily near each other as well. As it turned out, destroyers weren't exactly happy having to knife fight with other destroyers while also within my secondary range, and the Atlanta or two that showed up REALLY weren't happy trying to get rid of destroyers while under 16" gunfire. This also leads into the second point - don't go haring off alone. Sure, there's the issue of cruisers taking off much faster than you, but especially as you get higher up in tier you can often find at least one or two other ships willing to stick with you if you ask, and that makes you much more dangerous. A well-driven battleship and one or more escorting cruisers is generally going to destroy opposition, since if they're kiting you they're probably not bringing all their batteries to bear while shooting you, at least not as effectively as they could, whereas your own cruiser has much more free reign. And if they try to take on the cruiser on equal terms, they're opening themselves up for your extremely heavy salvos. A final point is terrain. Unless you happen to be on Ocean, it's not like they can just kite you at large ranges with impunity without your consent. If they start, just stop chasing them and find something else to do, while finding the nearest island to put between them and you. Blindly steaming after them into the open areas of a map is just dumb if they're that good at dodging your long range shots. edit: On further reflection, I don't actually recall for certain if it was Domination or Encounter, but most teams tend to play similar on that map regardless. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Aug 4, 2015 |
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Aug 4, 2015 23:19
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I'm not going to argue the point that there are some successful ways to play battleships, but it's still kind of messed up that all a cruiser has to do is angle away every 30 seconds and you can't significantly hurt him, while he does plenty of damage back with HE. I think both sides of it need reworking to fix this though. They already made battleships more accurate at close range, but that could do with increasing a bit further, especially on low tier ships. At the same time HE needs to do less pure damage instead of chunking battleship HP so much. If you did nothing else then they would be ridiculously strong, so at the same time add a bunch of secondary modules that can be damaged by HE and reduce effectiveness. Hits to the FCS that reduce accuracy and max firing range, radio damage that cuts you off from allies' line of sight, electrical system hits that reduce turret turn speed. Maybe even crew casualties that increase the cooldown on abilities. The idea is that a cruiser can make life miserable enough for a battleship that they can't be ignored, but to actually sink it without waiting a long time for fire to do the business they will have to get close enough for AP to penetrate or use torpedoes, which gives the battleship a better chance to fight back.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:51
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Well, that was a nice way to start the night. And I'm even still in the middle of retraining the captain, and thus lacking such useful skill as Situation Awareness.   Started on the southwest side on Two Brothers, and immediately sailed forward to drop torpedoes down one of the channels between those islands, since I've upgraded to the 10 km ones. As I was turning away, noticed our Minekaze was poking his nose around the channel, and there was an enemy destroyer coming down it, so since I was already turning that way, steamed over to join him. As it turned out, it was not one but ALL THREE of the enemy team's destroyers coming down it, along with a Phoenix. At this point, one of our Omahas steamed into the channel to meet them for some reason. Got two kills, but unsurprisingly died as well. Was rather pointless as both I and the Minekaze were both staying near the end and filling the mouth with torpedoes, and he could have stayed back with us. Needless to say, there were very shortly 5 shipwrecks all around the same spot. Around this time I also got the notice that one of my blindfired torpedoes had been blundered into by someone on their team - going by the review pages I suspect it was their Omaha, but I'm not really certain. Anyways, turned back to the left and started skirmishing, with the only hit during this time being tracking a Cleveland meandering through all those small islands and putting a spread on the opposite side of an island he was slowly going around. As he was already damaged, he hit one and went down. Around this time I noticed that we had ships getting into our cap from the other side, so went to help with base defense. And proceeded to find a virtually full health Warspite sitting in the middle of our cap, barely even moving. With our Minekaze moving in from his other side, he ended up trapped in a web and going down very quickly. Textbook example of why you don't stop moving. Game ended shortly after we ganged up on a nearby New York that had just finished dueling it out with our Kawachi.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:58
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OSad posted:How the hell do people manage less than a 50% winrate at this game? It's way brain-deader than WoT. The average winrate is like 44% in world of tanks, it's probably similar here. James Garfield posted:I have something like a 63% win rate that seems like it's not entirely due to small sample size (will probably be lower by the time I finish the Furutaka that winrate puts you in the top 1% easily.
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Aug 5, 2015 02:41
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I learned today that a Cleveland can put shots through the front of an Omaha and hit the citadel. I went from near full health to under 1k life in a single salvo.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:11
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The New Mexico is a joyless loving boredom simulator. poo poo range. poo poo accuracy. And everyone simply outruns you.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:15
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Gapey Joe Stalin posted:The New Mexico is a joyless loving boredom simulator. poo poo range. poo poo accuracy. And everyone simply outruns you. That's a funny way to spell Miyogi...
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Aug 5, 2015 03:28
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Gapey Joe Stalin posted:The New Mexico is a joyless loving boredom simulator. poo poo range. poo poo accuracy. And everyone simply outruns you. If you think the New Mexico is bad you should probably just stop leveling US battleships because the New Mexico is great loving ship. Then you get the Colorado and you end up hating life, you'll never make it through the Colorado grind. EDIT: The New Mexico and the St Louis are the only ships I didnt sell once I unlocked the next tier. DurosKlav fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 03:35
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It came to my attention that I am a camping noob, I wish to apologize to everyone. I citadel'd a Phoenix that was broadside to me, and this set him off.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:37
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Holy gently caress, I have a 60% win percentage with the South Carolina and it's considered my top ship. I never would have guessed that.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:39
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 Thanks to everyone who gave me tips on working the Bogue to its (limited) potential. Doing much better now!
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Aug 5, 2015 04:20
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I really wish this game had more varied PvE options. Sometimes I just want to blow ships up and not have hysterical people screaming at me in the chat because I'm not doing things the One True Way.
Somebody Awful fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 05:24
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Ahh, finally free experienced my way through the Furutaka
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Aug 5, 2015 05:38
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Gapey Joe Stalin posted:The New Mexico is a joyless loving boredom simulator. poo poo range. poo poo accuracy. And everyone simply outruns you. Wow, that is some poo poo opinion right here. Stop trying to engage everything at max range. It's you. You are the pubby.
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Aug 5, 2015 05:44
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Gapey Joe Stalin posted:The New Mexico is a joyless loving boredom simulator. poo poo range. poo poo accuracy. And everyone simply outruns you. I'm sorry, my eyes must be messed up, the New Mexico is by far one of the best / funnest ships i have played, come to think it you can actually carry in it.... o.o Try playing the angles of the ship when fighting, if you nose on when they fire, you cannot be pen'd by anything short of like an Iowa or Yamato
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Aug 5, 2015 06:38
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everyone else in this thread posted:New Mexicowns    with the stock hull  if anyone cares to see: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c68ifvqsxv5u7nn/20150804_225749_PASB034-New-Mexico-1941_20_NE_two_brothers.wowsreplay?dl=0 There are a couple of  moments where i try to do stuff like sneak shots over a ridge that don't quite make it, but everything else is fun. Also, no CVs at all.
TehKeen fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 07:26
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Stock Mahan torps make for amazing chokepoint ambushes.   The Murmansk is among the top two Tier V botes but not even that is enough to carry pubbies.    I don't have a  big enough for the score on that New Mexico or the Bogue.
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Aug 5, 2015 07:32
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Moatman posted:Ahh, finally free experienced my way through the Furutaka Welcome to the Aoba, fellow furutaka-hater! 
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Aug 5, 2015 10:13
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I feel dirty posting this. Yeah, a torpedoless Fubuki game. One kill was a Mahan, the other a Benson. Devastating Strike was me blasting the Benson with a full 6 hit broadside that detonated him. Thank loving god the Fubuki's turrets aren't poo poo anymore, cuz god help you if you're going to land a torpedo at the tier where planes are loving everywhere spotting your torpedoes and cruisers make up more than half of the hostile team.
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Aug 5, 2015 10:27
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TehKeen posted:
When you upload to imgur, hit the "Edit" checkbox and crop the middle of the picture so that people don't have to look at a huge 3840x2160 image just to see your score. 
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Aug 5, 2015 10:28
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El Disco posted:When you upload to imgur, hit the "Edit" checkbox and crop the middle of the picture so that people don't have to look at a huge 3840x2160 image just to see your score. And here I am playing on a monitor limited to 1366x768 *sigh* 
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Aug 5, 2015 10:39
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CitizenKain posted:I learned today that a Cleveland can put shots through the front of an Omaha and hit the citadel. I went from near full health to under 1k life in a single salvo. Yesterday I crossed the T of a South Carolina in my Wyoming, fired a full broadside of 12 AP shells at 6km range, of which 5 shells hit, of which all 5 shells failed to penetrate 
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Aug 5, 2015 10:48
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El Disco posted:When you upload to imgur, hit the "Edit" checkbox and crop the middle of the picture so that people don't have to look at a huge 3840x2160 image just to see your score. but then how will i flaunt my technological superiority?  (thanks for the tip  )
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Aug 5, 2015 11:10
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Tahirovic posted:As a battleship you need to close distance or you wont hit poo poo except other battleships, you'll slowly die to HE spamming cruisers you can't hit. If you go in close and your team doesn't support you, you die to DDs instead. Or even better you get nuked by a loving CV and can't do anything about it either. Stay out of the cruisers' gun range, or insist on friendly cruisers dealing with them while you deal with the BBs. Failing that, don't be a colossal turd like that guy, use your rudder and alter your speed. I was only able to hit him because he made no course or speed changes whatsoever, I was expecting all of my torps to be evaded. The only problem I have with BBs is how easily they are to burn in some of the more blatantly broken cruisers. I seldom have trouble with DDs (and when I do, it's because I did something stupid), and once cruisers are within ~10km I can easily kick the poo poo out of them. In that pubbie's case, he willingly went into a confined space (albeit with cruiser escort, but they were idiots and mostly got mopped up by our own cruisers) and was within three kilometres of my Atago when I fired the torps, broadside to me. The only broken thing being demonstrated was his brain. I routinely get within 7-10km of cruisers in my BBs but because I change course and speed and keep an eye out for behaviour that would suggest torps being fired, I very seldom get nuked. rossmum fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 11:37
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After reading this thread I decided not to be a dumb pubbie, and won a match yesterday by capping all by myself  E: It actually took 2-3 minutes. I murdered their carrier who was chilling in the cap, but his now homeless planes kept attacking me and resetting my capping progress. Luckily, none of his teammates cared until it was too late. Freudian slippers fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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