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The video info says he was just hooking the trailer bed up to his truck, then the cop just slowly drives in front of his house and sits there. VVVV
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Aug 4, 2015 23:12
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DrNutt posted:What the hell was the context for that? Or did he seriously just take his gun out and start ordering that guy around for filming a cop and having a hand in his pocket? Published on Aug 3, 2015 posted:Prior to pulling out my camera and hitting record this cop pulled slowly into my court then just stopped infront of my house for a good 30 seconds while I was trying to hook my boat up to my Excursion. I stood up and just watched him. He ever so slowly pulled away, circled the court opposite my house and then just parked facing my house. After an honest couple of minutes I pulled out my camera and pressed record. As minor as some would say it was, when I saw his gun gripped in his hand I really thought he was going to shoot me and claim my hand was in my pocket
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Aug 4, 2015 23:12
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In my experience, there is a significant number of LE officers who could be better described as general misanthropes than racists. Sure, they abuse minorities, but that's because they abuse everyone in the general public.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:15
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Spun Dog posted:Here's a reasonable reaction by law enforcement to being filmed: This is the america we want, where cops can threaten your life for being outside your own home. Fuckying psychopath pulling a gun on someone, he's stalking around like a loving animal bearing his teeth, I just don't understand how anyone can see video like this and think everything is ok with police behavior.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:27
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Spun Dog posted:Here's a reasonable reaction by law enforcement to being filmed: Power tripping pig. Evidently hand in pocket = must draw gun. What a loving joke. Agrajag fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Aug 4, 2015 |
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Aug 4, 2015 23:29
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DrNutt posted:What the hell was the context for that? Or did he seriously just take his gun out and start ordering that guy around for filming a cop and having a hand in his pocket? Are you surprised that police are doing this? Maybe it's just more surprising to you now because cops are treating white people like this, police have been doing this my whole life. Agrajag posted:Power tripping pig. Evidently hand in pocket = must draw gun. What a loving joke. They kill people for following orders, I'm surprised he didn't shoot when he took his hand out of his pocket. ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Aug 4, 2015 |
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Aug 4, 2015 23:31
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A few years ago, I got roughed up and thrown in jail overnight by city police, after I stepped in while they harassed one of my clients in public. They didn't even bother to write a complaint - I spent twelve hours in jail just because they could gently caress with me that way.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:38
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ElCondemn posted:This is the america we want, where cops can threaten your life for being outside your own home. Fuckying psychopath pulling a gun on someone, he's stalking around like a loving animal bearing his teeth, I just don't understand how anyone can see video like this and think everything is ok with police behavior. Cuz even though the cop in question was like an septagenarian and retiree from a larger department, where he learned such behaviour and was promoted for that 'hard charging style of police work', it's an isolated incident and cannot be extrapolated any further.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:40
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TheImmigrant posted:In my experience, there is a significant number of LE officers who could be better described as general misanthropes than racists. Sure, they abuse minorities, but that's because they abuse everyone in the general public. Just to reiterate - this is not true. Every level of every part of our judicial system has a demonstrable, undeniable, and significant bias against minorities. Every facet of the system is racist.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:41
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Lemming posted:There's plenty of circumstantial evidence of racism...
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Aug 4, 2015 23:43
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captainblastum posted:Just to reiterate - this is not true. Every level of every part of our judicial system has a demonstrable, undeniable, and significant bias against minorities. Every facet of the system is racist. You don't need to overegg the custard.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:44
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jfood posted:Cuz even though the cop in question was like an septagenarian and retiree from a larger department, where he learned such behaviour and was promoted for that 'hard charging style of police work', it's an isolated incident and cannot be extrapolated any further. Well, I think the real test will be whether he faces any kind of punishment/charges for what he did. Assuming that what he did was technically against department policy or plain illegal.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:45
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Spun Dog posted:Here's a reasonable reaction by law enforcement to being filmed: It's like some of the military training the police have been recieving/hearing about involves carrying around their firearm like it's no big deal.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:47
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Spun Dog posted:Well, I think the real test will be whether he faces any kind of punishment/charges for what he did. Assuming that what he did was technically against department policy or plain illegal. Why would you assume that he'd face any sort of punishment at all? I imagine to his coworkers, he handled an angry and aggressive crazy "civilian" very calmly.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:48
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Dead Reckoning posted:And that would be? The way he treated her, the fact that she was black, and the systemic racism present in the system. All of these contribute to being able to say the way he acted was most likely at least partly motivated by racism.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:48
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captainblastum posted:Just to reiterate - this is not true. Every level of every part of our judicial system has a demonstrable, undeniable, and significant bias against minorities. Every facet of the system is racist. 9/11 was the day it happened, the transformation, when bigotry ceased to exist. I know it's hard to remember a time when racism existed, but we must never forget, lest we make the same mistakes as our ancient forefathers in the pre-millennium.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:51
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ElCondemn posted:Are you surprised that police are doing this? Maybe it's just more surprising to you now because cops are treating white people like this, police have been doing this my whole life. I can't really say I'm surprised, I just thought at the very least there would have been some explanation like "smelled weed" or "was scarily black."
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Aug 4, 2015 23:52
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Remember everyone, if you dare say that there are systematic issues with accountability and abuse by police in America you are railing against something you know nothing about. Also, if you think cops torturing people is bad, at least you don't have even worse people torturing you! Be glad you're not in Marathon Man! No point complaining about one kind of abuse if there's even more horrific unaccountable abuse occurring!
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Aug 4, 2015 23:53
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DrNutt posted:I can't really say I'm surprised, I just thought at the very least there would have been some explanation like "smelled weed" or "was scarily black." Cops used to roll up on me and my friend on our way to school and search our backpacks (handcuffing us and sitting us on the road while they dumped everything out of our bags), not because we were causing trouble or anything, they always had some excuse about someone matching our description.
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Aug 4, 2015 23:54
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Spun Dog posted:Well, I think the real test will be whether he faces any kind of punishment/charges for what he did. Assuming that what he did was technically against department policy or plain illegal. Lemming posted:The way he treated her, the fact that she was black, and the systemic racism present in the system. All of these contribute to being able to say the way he acted was most likely at least partly motivated by racism.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:00
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Dead Reckoning posted:So, bellyfeel and literally nothing else. This is what I mean about worthless opinions. You can't cite a single specific thing. Which of those specific facts are incorrect? And your standard for racism is, what? What would say to you that racism was a motivating factor in a stop or arrest? Does the cop literally need to use a racial slur, or announce "I'm arresting you because you're black"? Your entire argument is that we should give all police officers the benefit of the doubt, when they've done nothing as an institution to earn it.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:03
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'd guess "I asked him to take his hand out of his pocket, at which point he refused and became agitated" is pretty much going to be the end of it. That agitation while keeping one hand in your clothing is widely interpreted as the body language of someone with a weapon. Yeah, we get it, cops can do whatever the gently caress they want, that's the problem. Lemming posted:Your entire argument is that we should give all police officers the benefit of the doubt, when they've done nothing as an institution to earn it. The law says you have to respect them otherwise they're allowed to kill you, they don't have to earn poo poo.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:04
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Lemming posted:Which of those specific facts are incorrect? And your standard for racism is, what? What would say to you that racism was a motivating factor in a stop or arrest? Does the cop literally need to use a racial slur, or announce "I'm arresting you because you're black"?
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Aug 5, 2015 00:08
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'd guess "I asked him to take his hand out of his pocket, at which point he refused and became agitated" is pretty much going to be the end of it. That agitation while keeping one hand in your clothing is widely interpreted as the body language of someone with a weapon. Yeah, why even issue firearms if you can't whip out your piece whenever somebody is filming you.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:11
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Dead Reckoning posted:What specific facts? You literally cited "the way that he treated her." You have presented no evidence whatsoever to support your position, because it is pure conjecture. All you can offer is "prove this cop isn't racist!" Do you understand why your argument is absurd? You can watch the video yourself. My point is that you can't "prove" that any given person is racist or not, but all the signs in this case point to him more likely than not having race be a motivating factor in the way he acted. My argument is very simple and clear. You're trying to use legal standards as a way to try to shut down people talking about racism.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:13
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Jarmak posted:Disagree, the court has pretty consistently held all the way back to Wolfe that the point of the exclusionary rule is to dissuade bad behavior and serves no purpose if the police believe they are acting properly. The reason is that the supreme court doesn't have anyone who understands how this poo poo works in the real world. They'll have to do a gant like fix in 20 years.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:18
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Lemming posted:You can watch the video yourself. My point is that you can't "prove" that any given person is racist or not, but all the signs in this case point to him more likely than not having race be a motivating factor in the way he acted. My argument is very simple and clear. You're trying to use legal standards as a way to try to shut down people talking about racism.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:22
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'd guess "I asked him to take his hand out of his pocket, at which point he refused and became agitated" is pretty much going to be the end of it. That agitation while keeping one hand in your clothing is widely interpreted as the body language of someone with a weapon. Just for the sake of completeness, do you realize that if he had lifted his hand from his pocket in a non cop-authorized way, the cop could have made an accepted argument for shooting him then and there based on reasonable fear of death? The testimony would go "I ordered him to take his hand out of his pocket because I thought he might have a gun. The way he moved made me think he was drawing the gun instead of just lifting his hand. I feared for my life, so I discharged my weapon."
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Aug 5, 2015 00:23
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Lemming posted:Which of those specific facts are incorrect? And your standard for racism is, what? What would say to you that racism was a motivating factor in a stop or arrest? Does the cop literally need to use a racial slur, or announce "I'm arresting you because you're black"? If you are asserting that someone acts in racism, the burden is yours to support that claim.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:26
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Harry Houck on CNN right now saying that the cop who handcuffed that third-grader was justified in doing so because the child was acting up and endangering lives. Must be an exceedingly threatening third-grader.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:37
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twodot posted:I don't think it's reasonable to describe "People speculating as to the likelihood that race was a motivating factor in a particular individual during a particular event" as "talking about racism". Actually talking about racism is really easy to do because we've got all sorts of statistics demonstrating structural racism exists. Talking about the likelihood of something being one of many motivating factors is really hard, and I don't see what it accomplishes. It's doubly strange to me that you can acknowledge that you can't prove anything and you still think it's important. The end result of that thinking is that you can't do anything to fix racism. On one hand you say, look, we have statistics that support the fact that police disproportionately stop and arrest minorities. On the other hand, you then say "well how can you say that this case definitely had an element of racism? Maybe it was fine!" This approach is unreasonable because then it means that nothing is racism unless it's a guy yelling a racial slur. Great, it's already pretty unacceptable to do that, and racism is still a huge problem. If you say this is a problem in aggregate and then every single case isn't racism, then you aren't really saying it's a problem. Looking at individual cases like this and saying that racism was most likely a factor in what happened is a pretty necessary step in getting people to understand what racism really is and where you can find it. A reasonable person watching the video could obviously tell that the way the cop escalated things was bullshit. If the department actually cared about its officers treating people equally, I think a good step would be to scrutinize stops like this more closely and punish officers for acting this way, and I think it would make sense to include harsher punishments if they're seen abusing people who have historically been discriminated against by the police.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:39
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Lemming posted:Looking at individual cases like this and saying that racism was most likely a factor in what happened is a pretty necessary step in getting people to understand what racism really is and where you can find it. Regardless, assume you are successful and you get everyone to agree that the racism probability exceeded the threshold, what are you going to do after that which fixes racism and which you couldn't have done before that? quote:I think it would make sense to include harsher punishments if they're seen abusing people who have historically been discriminated against by the police.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:53
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twodot posted:So here's a proposal, how do you implement this without instituting a paper bag test? Asking the victim their ethnicity or simply allowing them to volunteer it. It isn't like historically-abused demographics are unaware of the copborne vendetta against them.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:58
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twodot posted:I think this is the thinking that the end result is that you can't do anything to fix racism. People who aren't already inclined to agree with you are just going to ask for evidence, and then you're going to give your speech about how you don't need evidence, and they are going to think you're dumb. If the only way to fix racism is to discuss every single event where someone was maybe racist and get everyone to agree that the racism probability exceeded some threshold, then we're all hosed (there's a subset of racists that will just never acknowledge someone being racist is being racist). There is evidence. The evidence doesn't amount to overwhelming proof. It's largely circumstantial. If certain people aren't going to be convinced by the experiences of minorities and the statistics, then focus on other people who can be. There's a reason there's a general trend towards more people accepting that racism is happening, it's a problem, and we should be doing stuff about it. Those stubborn racists will just be further marginalized until they don't matter anymore, over time. FAUXTON has a good point about the second part. You could probably also use a similar metric to the one they're already using for determining that black people are stopped/arrested by police way more often than white people.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:04
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http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/03/us/dating-app-sex-offender-registry/index.html http://reason.com/blog/2015/07/24/the-cruel-petty-sentencing-practices-of let's just gently caress this kid's life up real good ~a senile judge Syenite fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 01:08
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Lemming posted:There is evidence. The evidence doesn't amount to overwhelming proof. It's largely circumstantial. If certain people aren't going to be convinced by the experiences of minorities and the statistics, then focus on other people who can be. There's a reason there's a general trend towards more people accepting that racism is happening, it's a problem, and we should be doing stuff about it. Those stubborn racists will just be further marginalized until they don't matter anymore, over time. twodot posted:Regardless, assume you are successful and you get everyone to agree that the racism probability exceeded the threshold, what are you going to do after that which fixes racism and which you couldn't have done before that? quote:FAUXTON has a good point about the second part. You could probably also use a similar metric to the one they're already using for determining that black people are stopped/arrested by police way more often than white people.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:12
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Lemming posted:all the signs in this case Lemming posted:The end result of that thinking is that you can't do anything to fix racism. Lemming posted:Looking at individual cases like this and saying that racism was most likely a factor in what happened is a pretty necessary step in getting people to understand what racism really is and where you can find it. A reasonable person watching the video could obviously tell that the way the cop escalated things was bullshit. If the department actually cared about its officers treating people equally, I think a good step would be to scrutinize stops like this more closely and punish officers for acting this way, and I think it would make sense to include harsher punishments if they're seen abusing people who have historically been discriminated against by the police. FAUXTON posted:Asking the victim their ethnicity or simply allowing them to volunteer it. It isn't like historically-abused demographics are unaware of the copborne vendetta against them.  "Excuse me sir, which ethnicity did you identify as during this traffic stop?"
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Aug 5, 2015 01:18
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Dead Reckoning posted:
at the idea that racist cops will hold their truncheon and gun until you clarify your particular ethnic background so as not to get the wrong idea on sight.e: I mean, that's got to be the shittiest punchline ever given prejudicial enforcement goes off the propensity to identify minorities from a distance, often while moving, from inside a vehicle. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Aug 5, 2015 |
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Aug 5, 2015 01:24
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So would you say that we should enshrine a separate (but no doubt equal) set of rules and regulations for traffic stops of minorities in our laws?
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Aug 5, 2015 01:28
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Dead Reckoning posted:Getting all righteous and trying to enact some sort of Cultural Revolution circle where everyone gathers to watch video tapes in order to find and denounce the secret racists in our midst serves nothing but your ego, and is especially dumb in light of the fact that you've already admitted you can't point to any specific proof of your allegations. Case closed, this thread is pointless, pointing out police abuse in videos online serves no purpose.
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Aug 5, 2015 01:29
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