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Just watched two carriers fight it out in a close range plane duel before finally destroying each other in a massive head on collision 
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Aug 6, 2015 06:08
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 20:52 |
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Just had a game where the enemy team had 2x North Carolinas with about 20k health each in our cap. Our tier 7 Japanese CV proceeded to send his torpedo and dive bomber squads in one at a time onto the stacked NC's, at which point they summarily obliterated every single squad one at a time. I think maybe 2 total torps and a couple of bombs got dropped out of two entire waves of the carriers full plane flights. Both NC's ended up with clear skies right as they finished capping. God drat. I've also been interviewing all the Izumo and Yamato players I've seen and literally everyone has said some variant of "work a few hours of overtime and pay gold to free XP past the Izumo - its a giant shitbox". gently caress.
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Aug 6, 2015 06:25
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OSad posted:I honestly don't understand why people would enjoy Japanese DD's over American DD's. I've found it so far in Jap DD's that it's rather a gamble to land torpedoes at your unspotted range when at any point, the ship you were aiming for can jiggle a little bit left and right, and suddenly your spread isn't going anywhere near the ship anymore. It's so much more fun to be a little annoying bugger, have fast turrets and put in your shots where they count, draw the attention from the enemy team so your team is in less pressure, then when you have the chance, close in and put in the torpedoes where you know you're gonna hit them, and not have to cross your fingers.
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Aug 6, 2015 06:36
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In a cruiser I'm way more afraid of JP destroyers than US ones because I know that if I stop paying attention when they're anywhere in my vicinity there's a very good chance I'm going to get crippled or destroyed without the chance to retaliate. US cruisers are a mild annoyance until they're close enough that I can easily hit them back.
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Aug 6, 2015 07:00
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I love Jap DD's. On the enemy team. Who don't have proper cruiser support. When I am in my Bullymode American Destroyer. 
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Aug 6, 2015 07:18
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OSad posted:
This is one of the reasons why the Minekazi is so good with it's 3x2 tubes. You stagger and spread the shots so that unless the target makes a sudden turn he will probably eat 2 torpedoes. If the guy is a total dunce I go for all 6 on point, but spreading out the shots is great. They're the same class of ships, but they are different play styles. The USN DDs are about close in knife fighting and ambushing. The IJN DDs are stealthy snipers. I really like the IJN DDs at first because it is low risk with a high potential reward. But once you start to get some more experience the USN DDs come into their own. Other than Ocean (Seriously, gently caress OCEAN) you can still pull off some amazing Torp runs plus you have worthwhile guns! And better AA. And Torps on both sides for some completely crazy poo poo. Also, I finally finished the Furutaka. Towards the end of the grind Stockholm Syndrome hit and I wasn't completely hating it. As soon as I sold it and got the Aoba I remembered how bad the Furutaka was. 2 Kills, 50 shots landed and 10 aircraft down in my first game. With the stock mods and a retraining Captain. Speaking of the Aoba, what mods do people recommend? I was thinking about getting the AA range mod and the AA range captain skill, just for insane AA range. But I don't know if they stack.
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Aug 6, 2015 07:38
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 Get hosed  You stupid piece of poo poo.  Hello beautiful. Dear god that was a slog. I managed to get to 6k from the North Carolina when all of a sudden the rng just poo poo on me for about 5 games. All of them sub 1000 xp, including a 450 and 500 xp game. Most of them going nearly the full 20 minutes as well. Colorado may you forever rot in hell.
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Aug 6, 2015 07:38
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DurosKlav posted:
A big Congrats! The NC is a wonderful ship and has great angles for playing agressively, i still play mine when i have time (which is rare  )
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Aug 6, 2015 07:47
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Michi88 posted:A big Congrats! The NC is a wonderful ship and has great angles for playing agressively, i still play mine when i have time (which is rare Feels weird actually being able to aim at poo poo and hitting! Now when I miss its more my poor aiming and less lol colorado dispersion. Also gotta get used to much longer range. Feel like I have to completely relearn battleships because of the Colorados poor performance.
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Aug 6, 2015 07:57
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The only drawback was the shell speed at range really, at max range its around a 17-20sec flight time, but that doesn't matter much if you play aggressive with it.
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Aug 6, 2015 08:16
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Oh man I wish I had replays turned on because the move I just pulled would go down in loving history. I came around a corner in my Aoba among some cramped islands to find two Clemsons about 7km away from me so I charged forward firing HE at them. Dodged every one of two dozen torpedoes at rear end-puckeringly close distance, and nuked them both with my own torpedoes at almost point blank range, one on each side of me. The only thing that hurt me was the friendly torpedo that hit me in the rear end in the middle of 9 crisscrossing enemy torpedoes.  Pubbies still almost lost the game. Our Wyoming chased an AFK Myogi to the very corner of the map firing HE at him instead of just sinking him in a couple AP salvos at close range. Then he rams him at full health and dies despite the fact that I explicitly told him he would die if he rammed. my kinda ape fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 08:21
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Can't IJN DDs ambush just as well as USN DDs? Usually your main source of damage in an ambush is your torps anyways.
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Aug 6, 2015 08:24
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Artificer posted:Can't IJN DDs ambush just as well as USN DDs? Usually your main source of damage in an ambush is your torps anyways. I keep hearing that IJN Torps have longer range but lower damage than USN ones. The difference is if a US DD rounds the corner and you don't have Cruiser support, the US DD will grape the IJN DD in the mouth with its turrets, and then spin circles until battlewagons try to go near islands.
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Aug 6, 2015 08:49
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ghetto wormhole posted:Just watched two carriers fight it out in a close range plane duel before finally destroying each other in a massive head on collision  I sank the second DD a few moments later, then sank to flooding 
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Aug 6, 2015 08:58
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That is cinematic as gently caress. 
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Aug 6, 2015 09:04
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Groggy nard posted:I keep hearing that IJN Torps have longer range but lower damage than USN ones. IJN torps are usually better in every way including damage.
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Aug 6, 2015 09:31
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ghetto wormhole posted:IJN torps are usually better in every way including damage. The difference is that if the Japanese torpedoes miss you're hosed, because the guns are token, whereas if a US destroyer misses torpedoes it can still burn poo poo up with fast spinning 5" turrets.
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Aug 6, 2015 09:37
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Artificer posted:Can't IJN DDs ambush just as well as USN DDs? Usually your main source of damage in an ambush is your torps anyways. Sure. IJN DD's have bigger alpha strikes with their torps, though unless you're dropping at below 1500 meters, US DDs do have a slight advantage in that their torpedoes get detected at shorter ranges, meaning less time to react to the torpedoes. US DDs typically have more torpedoes to launch than IJN DDs, however, though some may be tied up in launchers facing the wrong side of the boat. They're also better equipped to handle finishing an enemy off, with their superior firing speed giving them better turret DPS, and superior turret traverse letting them make manuevers and continue to track targets at those close ranges.
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Aug 6, 2015 09:39
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Those destroyer arguments only really apply at tier 5 and below. Tier 6 and up, the US destroyers lose the per-side launchers yet still have to rely on short-range ambushes since they do not get torps that are significantly longer range than concealment until tier 9. Those ambushes become more dangerous as battleships and even cruisers get longer range secondaries. The guns are great on the Nicholas, but they are the same guns and number of turrets all the way up the line until the Gearing's 3x2 version of the 5inch guns. The damage does not keep up with the growing hp pools of cruisers and battleships, making them rely on unreliable teammates to take advantage of their harassment and distraction. Meanwhile the IJN destroyers always have good torps that give them the option of stealth attacks from outside of concealment in addition to the more reliable short-range ambushes. After the Mutsuki's terrible guns, the rest of the line has decent to good guns.
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Aug 6, 2015 10:03
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Warbadger posted:Guys I'm not sure how you expect a battleship to close distance with cruisers as a solution to kiting, because you really can't do that unless they choose not to kite you. The problem is that cruisers currently enjoy gun fight superiority at long range and often very short range (torp range), in combination with notably higher speeds that allow them to control the range of a fight. If a cruiser doesn't want to fight you at 8km there is absolutely nothing you as a BB player can do about it. Your team may be able to, but not you. This is what I mean, cruisers dictate engagements on most maps, not battleships. It is easy to say "just disengage" but it is not the battleship's choice, you just follow him changing course every now and then while bathing him in HE. I can easily do this myself in my Atago and my Atlanta, I even have some success doing this in the Omaha. With this current design it feels like battleships have no real role because that role is better filled by a cruiser. Yes I too encounter dumb pubs who engage me at 12km without ever changing course or idiots who try to torp me but I encounter more and more cruisers who know what they are doing and you're just helpless against them. You need to pray your cruisers are better than theirs and relying on pubs is a recipe for disaster.
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Aug 6, 2015 10:11
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Hmm, something I seem to have overlooked, but makes Advanced Firing Training a better choice than before on US DDs. A number of them can fire their guns and REMAIN CONCEALED if they do so at the extremes of their ranges. The Farragut was able to do this at 11km, I imagine the Mahan could do this at 12-13k, with AFT. That is, assuming nothing has you spotted at closer than that range that you do not see (or planes).
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Aug 6, 2015 10:34
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I think most US DDs will be able to do the same with that skill.
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Aug 6, 2015 10:40
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Tank Boy Ken posted:I think most US DDs will be able to do the same with that skill. Yeah, I'm just giving 2 examples that I've worked with personally. Its somewhat useful to harass BBs, at least.
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Aug 6, 2015 11:42
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The problem is, as you say, if there is an IJN DD between you and your target that you didn't know was there.
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Aug 6, 2015 11:46
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Pharnakes posted:The problem is, as you say, if there is an IJN DD between you and your target that you didn't know was there. Ships concealed within that range spotting you is pretty rare, and the DD won't be there for long. You can always peel away if thats the case, too, a few KM and the IJN DD will be out of range as well and you just reset. Planes are the real problem, as you can't do poo poo about them, especially scout planes.
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Aug 6, 2015 12:04
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Hazdoc posted:Ships concealed within that range spotting you is pretty rare, and the DD won't be there for long. You can always peel away if thats the case, too, a few KM and the IJN DD will be out of range as well and you just reset. Planes are the real problem, as you can't do poo poo about them, especially scout planes. It's a bit silly that US DDs don't get better AA since their main armament is basically the best dual purpose gun made in WW2.
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Aug 6, 2015 12:08
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Michaellaneous posted:It's a bit silly that US DDs don't get better AA since their main armament is basically the best dual purpose gun made in WW2. Well from the Nicholas onwards, the main armament gets used as AA. It's one of the features of the hull upgrads (which cost you one turret). The Nicholas does have a 25 rated AA. Which isn't too bad.
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Aug 6, 2015 12:12
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Michaellaneous posted:It's a bit silly that US DDs don't get better AA since their main armament is basically the best dual purpose gun made in WW2. I KNOW but seriously I'm going to sound like a broken record if I rant about CVs again, so I won't. Defensive Fire on US DDs please wargaming! You know what else has amazing dual purpose guns? The Atlanta.   Got those 5 kills virtually solo, just dinking around C and D on North, getting fed DDs all day long. 2 BBs came by as well to play, but one of them couldn't hit me if his life depended on it, so I lit him on fire and watched him burn to death while I changed targets to a Minekaze. I had a buddy Mutsuki spotting for me and he even smoked to protect me once, what a bro. In return I killed all the DDs bullying him, but then he ate a torp and died (I think, there was way too much going on). On the other side of the map, our team went ahead with a huge man advantage and crushed their cruisers, for a very convincing win. And when there's a CV in game, I can do something like this with those dual purpose guns.  I spent literally the first half of the game just killing planes. Then I rolled into their base and mowed down anybody foolish enough to turn and fight me. The Atlanta is a fantastic boat, when it works.
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Aug 6, 2015 12:24
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Darkmoon2k posted:I'm becoming convinced that being a skilled player in a battleship contributes less to a team's success than being a skilled cruiser. I'm coming to the same conclusion. Battleships just are too random. On the offensive : slow rate of fire makes any miss (dispersion or misslead) hurt the DPS a lot and the reliability on Citadels hits to do DPS add some randomness to that. On the defensive : with your big rudder shift time make you the prey of "ninja" destroyers and sometime you won't have choice but to eat a torp salvo if you happen to be on the wrong side of the map. Same with multiple squadron bomber attack if the carrier chose to ruin your day. In cruisers, your guns are more acurate and the high rate of fire make up for the miss due to dispersion. At long range you can dodge shells reliably, and at medium to close range you have good chances to dodge torpedoes. I feel a lot less "prey" when playing cruiser than battleship.
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Aug 6, 2015 13:52
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OSad posted:I guess it's all about learning how to lead at the end of the day, and it's still a gamble whether a ship will kill you on approach or not, but punching up with your guns is so much more reliable than doing it with torps instead. Also, you get 65-knot torps so much earlier in the American line! For the Jap equivalent, you gotta go all the way to the Kagero, and they're only two knots better! 65-knots is very fast for tier 5! The stock Minekaze torpedoes are 68 knots, do about 30% more damage each than the Nicholoas' and you can launch just as many in a single salvo. The turn speed on the guns sucks, but you can get them to just about usable with the captain skill and then from Hatsuharu they turn fast enough. For me it's not about the all-out range of the torpedoes, it's the fact that most players won't start zig-zagging until they actually see a destroyer near them. Every few games I get one that starts with me putting 6 torpedoes into a battleship from 7km who hasn't encountered a single enemy ship yet, which you just can't do in a US DD (until Benson, and even then only with 52-knot torpedoes). Scikar fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 14:43
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German Cruiser line here  Also Tirpitz is confirmed the prem with Bismark being researchable, both at T8
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Aug 6, 2015 15:35
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Tahirovic posted:This is what I mean, cruisers dictate engagements on most maps, not battleships. It is easy to say "just disengage" but it is not the battleship's choice, you just follow him changing course every now and then while bathing him in HE. I can easily do this myself in my Atago and my Atlanta, I even have some success doing this in the Omaha. With this current design it feels like battleships have no real role because that role is better filled by a cruiser. All the cruisers you quote there apart from maybe the Atago are all pretty short range, the Atlanta especially, it's what 12km max? That's about the perfect range for BBs to lay the hurt on you. I know I am very wary of approaching a BB if I am his only target, he only has to get lucky once at his optimum range to ruin your day. I play my BBs very aggressively and the only time I really fear an Atlanta is if he is with a friend or two and I am having to manage him and dodging planes or torps. Maybe it's just me but I also find it very easy to get into secondary range against fast firing ships, the tunnel vision of watching that stream of shells can allow you to surprise many.
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Aug 6, 2015 15:38
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ranbo das posted:German Cruiser line here ...I sure as gently caress am not going to be able to pronounce any of the mid tier ones properly. I look forward to butchering these names on TS.
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Aug 6, 2015 15:42
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Ok, a few questions about that line. The T7 is, I assume, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Yorck. However, that was a Roon-class cruiser, which they've got at T9  So what he hell is the T9 supposed to be? Also, the T10? I don't think it'd be an O-class, since those had 15" guns. Unless they're planning to put the Alaska in as a T10 US cruiser, and I don't think they're doing that (since both the current and proposed T10 US cruisers are armed with 8" guns).
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Aug 6, 2015 16:04
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Vorkosigan posted:Ok, a few questions about that line. The T7 is, I assume, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Yorck. However, that was a Roon-class cruiser, which they've got at T9 The tier 9 and 10 are probably variants of the P-class.
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Aug 6, 2015 16:07
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wdarkk posted:The tier 9 and 10 are probably variants of the P-class. 11" guns are still a major step up from the other lines at the moment. Not saying they won't do it, just saying that'd be a major departure.
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Aug 6, 2015 16:12
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Given where it is before the Admiral Hipper, I would assume the Yorck is going to be the M project. That puts a ship similar to Cleveland one tier up though, so I wonder if this means changes to the US tree - maybe a heavy/light split with Brooklyn and Northampton added? e: The Panzershiffe are always going to look weird in the tree, 6x11" guns is going to be really pathetic if they have battleship accuracy but pretty strong on a cruiser. I don't see a T9 and T10 6x11" P project being a problem against a rapid fire Des Moines or a 12x8" Zao, but it will be interesting seeing where the Deutschlands fit in. Scikar fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 16:28
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11" guns are probably going to leave them spotting the 8" armed ships a lot of DPM.
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Aug 6, 2015 16:35
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xthetenth posted:11" guns are probably going to leave them spotting the 8" armed ships a lot of DPM. The P class had only 6 of them so it seems likely. Imagine a more durable, less terrible Furutaka.
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Aug 6, 2015 16:41
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Yeah, the 11in-armed Panzerschiffe are probalby going to be trading n DPM for alpha damage and penetration comapred to 8in cruisers. Culd work out pretty well and depends on how they balance it in detail. In other news:  Two Close Quarters Specialists, a Fireproof, a Dreadnought and a Double Strike in those ten games. Mikasa's a good ship, but she really needs and experienced and aggressive BB player and a captain with 10+ skill points (for Advanced Firing Training) to show her potential.
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Aug 6, 2015 17:29
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