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dialhforhero posted:This outline can also be applied to the Star Wars thread with regards to the prequel trilogy. At least I could follow the plot of the prequels. I had no idea what was going on in Five Armies or who half the characters were. Bilbo: "Look, Thorin, here comes the bat army!" Thorin: "Don't worry, a bunch of goat-riding dwarves are coming to fend off the wolves brought by the orc that died in the first movie but is back in this movie for some reason." Bilbo: "And here comes a bunch of elves who are related to the girl elf and maybe Legolas." Thorin: "Look, here comes Gandalf and... nobody. Shame he couldn't ask the two elf gods he was just with to help diffuse this situation."
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Aug 4, 2015 14:04
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Trump posted:This is a retarded defense of that clip. It's a pretty dumb attack to begin with.
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Aug 4, 2015 14:21
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Irish Joe posted:At least I could follow the plot of the prequels. I had no idea what was going on in Five Armies or who half the characters were. It is a fool's errand to try to make total logical sense of a fantasy film. "Why didn't they just fly to mount doom on the eagles?"
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Aug 4, 2015 15:21
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Irish Joe posted:At least I could follow the plot of the prequels. I had no idea what was going on in Five Armies or who half the characters were. The movie is that scene in Anchorman where things escalate (quickly), all due to Thorin's stubbornness/"dragon sickness".
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Aug 4, 2015 15:35
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I had no idea who anyone in the big fight in Anchorman was. What a lovely plot, I couldn't follow it at all
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Aug 4, 2015 15:42
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I was more invested in the Anchorman fight than in the entire Battle of Five Armies
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Aug 4, 2015 15:47
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ALFbrot posted:I was more invested in the Anchorman fight than in the entire Battle of Five Armies It's a well-constructed scene filled with big-name actors. Characters we cared about in a fight to the death. Gripping action and suspense.
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Aug 4, 2015 15:51
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sassassin posted:It's a well-constructed scene filled with big-name actors. Characters we cared about in a fight to the death. Gripping action and suspense. I just wish it had CG Billy Connolly in it.
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Aug 4, 2015 15:57
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sassassin posted:I don't think the films do assume anyone cares about the other dwarves. They get completely overshadowed in screen-time during the third movie by pretty much every character with a name. They're props for Thorin, and he doesn't always need them. I think they do assume that at the beginning of the trilogy. Thorin's obviously set up as the most important but I think the mood set was more "let's watch all of these guys go on a grand adventure" instead of "let's watch Thorin go on a grand adventure, and maybe you'll notice the other dudes in the background." By the end of the trilogy, though, I would agree that the movie stops pretending that the rank-and-file dwarves are any more important than the soldiers Billy Connolly brings with him. Irish Joe posted:At least I could follow the plot of the prequels. I had no idea what was going on in Five Armies or who half the characters were. Same basic thing happened at the end of RotK. I also don't like that movie much, so
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Aug 4, 2015 16:37
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Hbomberguy posted:It is a fool's errand to try to make total logical sense of a fantasy film. B/C of the Nazgul Air Cavalry. Also I think the Eye can shoot lasers.
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Aug 4, 2015 18:42
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porfiria posted:B/C of the Nazgul Air Cavalry. Also I think the Eye can shoot lasers. Also the Ring might have corrupted the Eagles. Also riding the Eagles to Mordor was actually Gandalf's plan all along, he just wanted to keep it a secret as long as possible. When the Balrog took him out, he tried to tell the rest of the Fellowship about it ("Fly, you fools!"), but nobody figured it out. Also 
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Aug 4, 2015 19:28
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Hbomberguy posted:It is a fool's errand to try to make total logical sense of a fantasy film. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwxA9O-q2o8
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Aug 4, 2015 19:54
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Hbomberguy posted:It is a fool's errand to try to make total logical sense of a fantasy film. ...Have you really never read the books?
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Aug 5, 2015 02:30
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:...Have you really never read the books? Don't need the books to know the answer to that question. As was mentioned, Sauron had an air force. You see them in the movies and everything. They're pretty scary, and can sort-of smell the Ring.
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Aug 5, 2015 02:35
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Bongo Bill posted:Don't need the books to know the answer to that question. As was mentioned, Sauron had an air force. You see them in the movies and everything. They're pretty scary, and can sort-of smell the Ring. And archers exist, also Sauron is a giant eyeball tower that can see a giant flock of birds coming.
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Aug 5, 2015 03:37
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But in the movies the Eagles destroy everything that dare oppose them.
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Aug 5, 2015 07:58
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Renoistic posted:But in the movies the Eagles destroy everything that dare oppose them. They only ever swoop in when everyone's busy and tired from fighting. They're America during WW2.
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Aug 5, 2015 09:32
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Sluts.
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Aug 5, 2015 09:55
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:...Have you really never read the books? I employed scarequotes for a reason. Asking for the most tactically-realistic approach in a fantasy film misses the whole point of fantasy. That there may or may not be a canonical reason for that to work (some people theorise that was what Gandalf actually intended) is beside the point.
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Aug 5, 2015 11:46
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And yet one of the big reasons people like Tolkien is how plausible and realistic his depictions of things like battles are. The more work you put into making everything internally consistent, the more glaringly a single flaw stands out. But you need that internal consistency to make this kind of story engaging. Too many flaws or too much implausibility or confusion in a presentation and one's suspension of disbelief does a Tacoma Narrows
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Aug 5, 2015 13:22
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Hbomberguy posted:But that landscape felt real, man. It felt like a real place. With Hobbits.
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Aug 5, 2015 14:41
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It's just a story being written by a magical creature under the influence of a magical ring, who wasn't even there for most of it. You should really just relax.
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Aug 5, 2015 14:54
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I think you can't really go anywhere with the story of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings without addressing that they were and are incredibly popular. Talk about plot holes, and even criticisms like "what the hell is tom bombadil doing here?" have to contend with the fact that none of them can reasonably be said to have blunted the popularity of the books at all, over a period of decades.
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Aug 5, 2015 15:08
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Data Graham posted:And yet one of the big reasons people like Tolkien is how plausible and realistic his depictions of things like battles are. I doubt it since a lot of his LOTR battles are literally two paragraphs in length.
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Aug 5, 2015 15:28
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josh04 posted:I think you can't really go anywhere with the story of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings without addressing that they were and are incredibly popular. Talk about plot holes, and even criticisms like "what the hell is tom bombadil doing here?" have to contend with the fact that none of them can reasonably be said to have blunted the popularity of the books at all, over a period of decades. Its a pretty good example of how certain things work really well in a long-form novel, but just don't work in a 2 hour film, or even an 8 hour long trilogy. When you're reading LOTR, you can sit down and read all about the hobbits adventure with Tom Bombadil, say "well, that was a fun chapter. Kinda bizzare though", and put the book down for the day. Stuff like that works in a novel's favor, it adds charm and depth to the world Tolkien created. Screenwriting is a whole different beast though, and you have to write a story that moves along at enough of a pace that people can experience the whole thing in one sitting. In most cases if an aspect of the plot is irrelevant to the overarching story, it needs to be removed in the interest of maintaining the rhythm of the film.
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Aug 5, 2015 15:31
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computer parts posted:I doubt it since a lot of his LOTR battles are literally two paragraphs in length. Consisting of the noble rally in the face of almost certain doom, then the hero essientially spins in a circle or runs forward, mowing down countless enemies and routing them utterly. It's dope, and the movies capture it well. It's definitely internally consistent, because it's genre-setting fantasy, but not even remotely plausible or realistic. and I would know, I've slain many a troll with my magic blade irl!
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Aug 5, 2015 16:07
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I slay trolls every day, on forums.
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Aug 5, 2015 17:08
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The extended version of Five Armies just got rated R.
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Aug 6, 2015 03:06
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For Retarded.
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Aug 6, 2015 11:30
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So the film adaptation of Tolkien's work that is ostensibly intended for the most mature audience is the one based on the final twenty pages of The Hobbit.
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Aug 6, 2015 13:13
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Hobbit 3 was already the closest to old style Peter Jackson his films have been in years, it just didn't go far enough with the dumb stuff. I hope the extended cut adds that missing Dead Alive quality that the final battle needed.
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Aug 6, 2015 18:01
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CGI Billy Connolly wielding a lawnmower strapped to his chest would bring me back on board
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Aug 6, 2015 18:35
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Hey Hbomberguy and sassassin, does Billy Connolly being CGI have a connotation in regards to the movie? Or is that just about the limit where we can disregard content of a film and just see it as a far-removed element?
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Aug 6, 2015 20:23
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I never read The Hobbit, so when he first appeared I assumed he was going to transform into a huge monster or something in the near future. But then a few minutes later they just have close ups of him talking or whatever, so awkward. I really didn't like the CG for him at all. It actually looked pretty good in general but the minute he was talking it was terrible.
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Aug 6, 2015 20:57
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Was Billy Conolly ending up being CGI anything to do with the cancer scare he had do you think?
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Aug 6, 2015 21:19
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Kikka posted:Hey Hbomberguy and sassassin, does Billy Connolly being CGI have a connotation in regards to the movie? Or is that just about the limit where we can disregard content of a film and just see it as a far-removed element? It's all about the muddied morals of the Hobbit compared to LoTR - in LoTR, all the 'good guy' armies are all humans and actors, fighting against CG monstrosities. The ghost army and the ringwraiths (on foot, at least) threaten to cross this boundary but only to pose the threat that the main characters might lose their way. In the Battle of Five Armies, Dain arriving on his pig with his faceless cgi army may as well be Azog arriving on his wolf at the end of An Unexpected Journey. He hardly gets a heroes' welcome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ8jUpx8Hho Thorin is specifically unhappy to see him - because he assumes he'll want a share of the gold, and Thorin's quest is ultimately one of greed and his enemies are whoever stands in his way. For comparison, here's Azog on his wolf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PQ8JjU9kKg (e: also phwoar that throne imagery of thorin rising from the tree, with the rest of the companions clinging to the branches below as the whole thing threatens to slide into an abyss.)
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Aug 6, 2015 22:20
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Kikka posted:Hey Hbomberguy and sassassin, does Billy Connolly being CGI have a connotation in regards to the movie? Or is that just about the limit where we can disregard content of a film and just see it as a far-removed element? Rescue via cg personage is a recurrent theme of PJ's films (with rescues by physical actors frequently being stopped/impeded by physical obstacles by contrast), but I haven't put much thought into it tbh. I can't remember the sequence of events, but he turns up somewhere around the point where Thorin's madness is at its peak and cg worms are destroying all solid earth, right?
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Aug 6, 2015 23:25
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Was Billy Conolly ending up being CGI anything to do with the cancer scare he had do you think? To the same extent that Stephen Fry was written out because he tried to off himself in a hotel room during filming, I'd expect. Perverted old oval office.
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Aug 6, 2015 23:26
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Peter Jackson jumped through all sorts of hoops to get Christopher Lee to work as Saruman, despite him barely being able to run out a sentence towards the end of his life. If he'd wanted a more lifelike Billy Connolly he could definitely have had one.
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Aug 6, 2015 23:50
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Takes time to set up something like that, and also I'm sure he relished the challenge.
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Aug 7, 2015 04:23
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