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TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

n8r posted:

That lawn doesn't look bad at all - looks to me like it needs some water. Do you expect a renter to keep golf course quality grass? Some of that interior damage looks pretty legit, but that fence work looks rotten as hell and ready to break. The tenant should have notified you regarding that exterior fence/deck work, but expecting that stuff to hold up doesn't look all that reasonable. If I were the tenant I'd fight you on a bunch of that stuff, especially the yard.

Photos don't likely capture it very well, but large portions of the grass are like hay and will come right up just by touching it. I also didn't have any pictures on hand of the landscaping where everything is insanely overgrown and filled with weeds.

Here is another that better captures the death of it:



I do expect the tenant to actually water the grass and maintain it as the lease that they agreed to requires them to. I even posted that portion of the lease in my OP. Are there two types of ways to manage properties? Is there the official lease and the actual 'I'm just a cool landlord' lease that people are supposed to follow with much more lax rules that are unspecified? Am I in the right thread here?

Frankly, all of your responses have been 'just be a cool dude and do the tenants a solid' and that approach is not very consistent with being a successful landlord. I absolutely do not mean that a landlord should be completely self-serving and an rear end in a top hat who finds every penny to ding a tenant for. I clearly stated several times about the numerous things that I did not charge them for that I have complete legal standing to. It is not unreasonable for a landlord to expect property to be returned in similar condition minus wear and tear. This is not normal wear and tear.

Here are pictures from before they moved in. That grass and landscaping WAS nice.





The fence is fine, strong and sturdy wolmanized wood, just a bit faded/greyed over time in the sun. Was built in 08. Not sure where you see it being 'rotten as hell'.

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SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X

Saint Fu posted:

Is the tenant typically responsible for the landscaping? I've never heard of this; it seems like a recipe for a dead lawn. I see that it was in your lease but has anyone ever had a tenant ever keep the lawn and garden looking nice? Other than that, everything seems reasonable to me, the layman.
I have to maintain landscaping to the condition it was when I moved in. It was dead when I moved in. I just have to mow the weeds - the grass doesn't grow :( I'll be fixing this next spring, I hate it.

Trader - I think they owe for landscaping and that deck railing looks okay but needs stain. Minus the one that broke. Probably their fault, maybe not. Hard to say.

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
@Trader - I think there is the expectation of what you'd do as a homeowner and what the typical person would do as a renter. The pics you've posted look like a person who really cares for the yard, and probably spends a fair bit of time making sure every spot is getting watered and using a fair bit of chemicals. I personally don't maintain a yard that looks like that on a house I own because it's a time consuming, and costs money to do it.

I think there is a decent chance that your renters aren't expecting to get their deposit back because they haven't even bothered to give a forwarding address or contacted you about it. I think you've probably got enough damage there to hold back a fair bit, if not all of the deposit. I do think that you need to be realistic about the state a typical renter will keep a house vs. a homeowner. I'd say it's good you're getting out of the rental game, because I think some of your expectations are a bit unrealistic.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget
Grimey Drawer
that lawn looks like they had a dog.

Bloody Queef
Mar 23, 2012

by zen death robot

TraderStav posted:

I do expect the tenant to actually water the grass and maintain it as the lease that they agreed to requires them to. I even posted that portion of the lease in my OP. Are there two types of ways to manage properties? Is there the official lease and the actual 'I'm just a cool landlord' lease that people are supposed to follow with much more lax rules that are unspecified? Am I in the right thread here?

Frankly, all of your responses have been 'just be a cool dude and do the tenants a solid' and that approach is not very consistent with being a successful landlord. I absolutely do not mean that a landlord should be completely self-serving and an rear end in a top hat who finds every penny to ding a tenant for.

Trader, I try to be active in the thread as an actual landlord, but I haven't been reading until today where I saw your first post. You're not crazy, you're not being unreasonable, and you're being generous to your tenant.

One of the things that shocked me was all the responses of "I'm renting and do x" Why the gently caress are those posters posting in the landlord thread? I also thought I was reading the wrong thread. Make a loving "I'm a renter and hate my landlord thread" in E/N, don't poo poo up the rental property thread.

I think everything you want to charge for is reasonable, in fact I would probably try to go after more. I get absolutely livid when someone damages MY loving PROPERTY through negligence or deliberate actions. Always remember that they are destroying something you paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for and could potentially hurt you severely Ina financial sense you by destroying it. Also your estimates are probably too low, I'd go with the advice of others and get a few estimates and charge the highest one to the security deposit even if you're doing it yourself.

Here is, however, where I'm not 100% in agreement with you. The problem you're experiencing now is far more common on properties managed from a distance. Do you have a property management company or are you doing it yourself? If you have a property manager, please spread the word on how awful of a job they did checking in on the tenants. If you're doing it yourself take it as a lesson to watch tenants like a hawk.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

Bloody Queef posted:

Trader, I try to be active in the thread as an actual landlord, but I haven't been reading until today where I saw your first post. You're not crazy, you're not being unreasonable, and you're being generous to your tenant.

One of the things that shocked me was all the responses of "I'm renting and do x" Why the gently caress are those posters posting in the landlord thread? I also thought I was reading the wrong thread. Make a loving "I'm a renter and hate my landlord thread" in E/N, don't poo poo up the rental property thread.

I think everything you want to charge for is reasonable, in fact I would probably try to go after more. I get absolutely livid when someone damages MY loving PROPERTY through negligence or deliberate actions. Always remember that they are destroying something you paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for and could potentially hurt you severely Ina financial sense you by destroying it. Also your estimates are probably too low, I'd go with the advice of others and get a few estimates and charge the highest one to the security deposit even if you're doing it yourself.

Here is, however, where I'm not 100% in agreement with you. The problem you're experiencing now is far more common on properties managed from a distance. Do you have a property management company or are you doing it yourself? If you have a property manager, please spread the word on how awful of a job they did checking in on the tenants. If you're doing it yourself take it as a lesson to watch tenants like a hawk.

Thanks for the reply and I'm working right now on renovating so will likely reply again later in more detail. I have to agree with your last statement. I live a decent distance and should have had more involvement with these tenants. The first set of tenants I did but got lax with these. It's a solid lesson. I was more or less forced into landlordship as I couldn't sell my house and had to move. I would absolutely get back into it with the right house and economics, where this one was just barely breaking even.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down
Oh,also just found the handle to the washer inside of it. These people were animals. Everything that you could open or close has damage.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget
Grimey Drawer

TraderStav posted:

Oh,also just found the handle to the washer inside of it. These people were animals. Everything that you could open or close has damage.

temper tantrums

TouchyMcFeely
Aug 21, 2006

High five! Hell yeah!

Whelp, it's finally happening.

The wife and I are in the process of finding a new home to move into and we're going to convert our current house into a rental.

We found a guy who's helping us look at properties and is helping us work through the transition who has 12 rental properties in a neighboring town.

Really stoked and terrified!

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost
:hfive: I feel your pain. The wife and I are buying a new home next week and renting our current place. I have a lot of reading to do in the near future to make sure I do everything properly. I'm hoping to have renters in by November 1 at the very latest, as I have to do some small renovations (new flooring and a backsplash in the kitchen, new carpet in 2 rooms, some fence repairs/maintenance, and lots of paint). I'm going to be farming out some of the more tedious work (like painting) since we have some minor work to do at the new house as well.

All in all, I think I'm making the right decision. I owe about 76k on the house and could sell for 110k easily. My monthly PITI payment is less than $800, and I should be able to get $1200 in rent.

poopinmymouth
Mar 2, 2005

PROUD 2 B AMERICAN (these colors don't run)
Small boring (but great) update. New place we bought is working out really well. The renters pay on time every month, I finished renovating the bathroom mostly myself (the renter is a painter, so I traded a portion of the rent for him to paint the room), and the balcony window which long needed replacing is finally getting done as well (we included the replacement cost in the purchase agreement).

Guesthouse renter is paying on time and without problems.

Officially will be paid off our primary residence next month after just 5 years, thanks in no small part to the passive income of renting out the guesthouse and this new apartment. Our monthly mortgage payment is now down to a third of our rental income each month. We roll all the rental income, plus at least 1,000 USD (but often many multiples more) into the mortgage and should hopefully follow the wash, rinse, repeat of adding another apartment in about 2 years when we are debt free again.

Mercury Ballistic
Nov 14, 2005

not gun related
Quick reality check here, please tell me if I am stupid or not.

Wife and I moved to a new place about a year ago. We kept the old place, which is nearby, and rent it out. Mortgage/taxes is about 1950/mo and we rented the first year for 2600/mo. Pretty much all that over the note went to pay taxes, I would say we broke even, and with a few expenses like tree work and a bath reno, we are down about 13000 for the first year. I realize we are building equity, so that is a +. Anyway, I projected ahead and found that if I were to sell next spring, I could walk away with a decent return (maybe 80%) on my initial down payment when I bought the house back in 2009. I projected some numbers ahead such as 1000/yr in random costs, 10% vacancy, and 6% sales commission, as well as paying off the remaining balance on the mortgage. At 10 years I had us (assuming a 2.5% annual appreciation) about 122K in the hole. I found around a 7.5%-8% appreciation rate needed to just break even. I should also add, I am not certain on my numbers.
In short, I feel if a rental property is not making any actual profit, and if all returns are from an assumed gain in value down the road at selling, then I should cash out now. I think I would balk at an investment in any other area that required such huge maintenance costs just to own.

Are there more subtle answers? FWIW, this is in the near suburbs of the DC metro area, so prices are pretty crazy already.
I spoke to a tax preparer (who to be fair claimed that there is no way to predict future value) who brought up that depreciation now vs recapture later is roughly a wash. Also, if we sell before the 3 year point we are exempt from Cap gains tax. We are speaking to a realtor friend with some local rentals next week as well.

Anyway, am I over thinking this?

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004
Sell now, that's a terrible rental situation. Building equity on a mortgage is not enough to make it worth your time and risk.

TouchyMcFeely
Aug 21, 2006

High five! Hell yeah!

Mercury Ballistic posted:

Quick reality check here, please tell me if I am stupid or not.
Are there more subtle answers? FWIW, this is in the near suburbs of the DC metro area, so prices are pretty crazy already.
I spoke to a tax preparer (who to be fair claimed that there is no way to predict future value) who brought up that depreciation now vs recapture later is roughly a wash. Also, if we sell before the 3 year point we are exempt from Cap gains tax. We are speaking to a realtor friend with some local rentals next week as well.

Anyway, am I over thinking this?

You're down $13,000 in the first year? Is that a typo and you meant $1,300?

If you want to keep the property there's a couple of options (and certainly more than I can think of). The first would be to raise the rent. Another would be to refinance the remaining balance of the loan out another 30 years. If you've paid down enough of the original loan and haven't used the house as a piggy bank then you may be able to see quite a bit of savings on the mortgage payment by stretching the remaining balance out.

Making this transition myself, I learned that what you would spend to improve a house you live in vs what you would spend to make a house acceptable for a tenant can be huge. The house we live in (and are going to convert to a rental) is a 2 bedroom, 2.5 bath home with an unfinished basement. Initially we were thinking that we would hire a contractor to finish the basement and make it a 4 bedroom 3.5 bathroom unit, meaning we could get higher rent. What we realized is that the increase in rent would not offset the cost of the renovation and that we would be better off leaving it as a 2 bedroom.

Digging into the numbers deeper, and discussing further with our mentor, we found that we actually only needed to do a few things that would cost less than $4,000 to address. The majority of that cost being carpet and linoleum work we can't do ourselves.

I regularly hear that the standard process of buy and hold landlording is a slow money game (and happens to be the game I'm trying to get into). You buy and you hold and just like any investment you minimize the expenditures while maximizing the profits. That doesn't mean you have to be a slumlord but it also means that you don't spend $40,000 when $4,000 will do.

If you're really interested in landlording there are likely things you can do to make the property profitable or use that rental property to leverage additional property to offset the costs of this unit but if it's not something you care that much about you're probably better off selling it and focussing your energy elsewhere.

edit: Also, be certain on your numbers. You should have a separate bank account specifically for your rental so that you can track the income and expenditures. You can setup a free account on Mint specifically for your rental account and track all of that along with a rough value of the house.

TouchyMcFeely fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Aug 23, 2015

Mercury Ballistic
Nov 14, 2005

not gun related
13k is not a typo. 7k for a bath reno, 3k for painting and 3k for massive tree work. All stuff that needed doing sell or rent, so I cant really be too angry about them. I just feel that had the house been paid off, the rental returns would be 15-20k/yr, but with what I still owe on the note, and us maxing out retirements and college funds, we are loath to throw more at it.

Wife and I are thinking we will sell and throw the profits at our current property to pay down the mortgage We bought the rental in July of 09, so the price was rock bottom and it was a foreclosure so I had to do a lot of repairs to get it right. No Heloc or any of that stuff to worry about and I put down 20% as well.

Thanks thread for confirming my suspicions.

scavok
Feb 22, 2005
Maybe some owners could give me a bit of guidance on if I should blow some money on a lawyer.

About 6 months ago I moved in to a rental with wood floors and 2 big dogs. Well, after about a month I started noticing some new damage to the floors, and by 2 months I realized it was going to be getting out of hand so I went and bought some massive expensive rugs for a couple of the rooms, arranged furniture or closed doors to keep the dogs from getting any speed, but it was still regularly getting scratched. At about the 5 month mark I emailed the owners to tell them their floor is getting a lot of scratches and asked if they could get a quote so we can work out what I'll owe and I can plan ahead.

I get the email today and they're expecting me to pay the full cost of refinishing, and it isn't cheap.

So a few issues here. For one, there was existing damage to the floor throughout the house. I wrote all of it down on the inspection paper at move in and have numerous pictures. Of course the catch is that it wasn't really damaged enough before that it would detract from getting a new tenant, and now there's a good chance that it will, but that's a pretty subjective threshold. Are there often any laws about charging a tenant to repair an item to a better condition than it was in when they moved in?

quote:

Plus it will take 7-8 business days to complete, which means a loss of rental income. And it's a very messy job that may require significant clean-up afterward.

There's also these two sentences, although she didn't put a dollar tag on them. Obviously the floors won't get done until after I move out, but this just seems obnoxious in that she's assuming she'll have a tenant who would have been able to move in the day after I move out. I'm guessing I'll probably have to eat that if she can somehow prove somebody would have rented it?

Lastly, and this is a reach, but I had my dogs in 2 other places with wood floors and really had nothing noticeable from the dogs in over 3 years. This wood floor is just soft as hell. Wouldn't the owner have some liability in allowing a tenant to move in with big dogs without knowing the quality of the floors in their property?

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004
No, your two big dogs ruined the floor, you admitted it, and you're going to have to pay for it. You can't halfway refinish a floor to leave the scratches that were already there but you might be able to negotiate it to 80% of the cost or whatever you think is fair. If it were me I would have already collected an additional pet deposit per dog and that would hopefully be that. As far as loss of rental income I probably wouldn't push that too hard but that would almost guarantee a month of vacancy whereas if it's a well located and well priced rental my goal would certainly be to turn tenants over with 0 months vacancy.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget
Grimey Drawer
They have to give some allowances for normal wear and tear on both the refinishing costs and the loss of income at move out. If you assume a normal wood floor (not prefinished) has a finish that will last 15 years between refinishing in a rental, you should pay the difference between when they would have needed to do it and when they have to do it because of you. You should also have to pay for a full replacement if the scratches are so deep that the floor cannot be refinished.

Why do renters always have big rear end dogs? If you are renting and you need a dog, get a yorkie or something.

Quaint Quail Quilt
Jun 19, 2006


Ask me about that time I told people mixing bleach and vinegar is okay
I'm going to say it's prefinished. That stuff scratches hella easy.

One time we bought unfinished floorboards and we had to throw almost half of them out because of one inch knot holes throughout. Also finishing it 3 times to make it look good was expensive.

Try and match the boards at home depot and calculate square footage price to cover your rear end and not get gouged too hard, the labour is somewhat hard and not too cheap though unless you know the right people. You are hunched the whole time and it hurts your back.

I hope the refinish is possible though, but it does take time and makes mess and you can't get leftover dog hair in the polyurethane.

Quaint Quail Quilt fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Aug 30, 2015

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
If you do a really good job of keeping a large dog's nails trimmed you can usually keep them from scratching floors badly. My dog has really large nails, and I try my best to keep them trimmed, she scratches the floors, but not severely. It was pretty dumb of you to even mention the damage of the floors to your landlord. It was pretty dumb of your landlord to rent a house with hardwood floors to someone with big dogs.

Aside from keeping your dogs nails well trimmed and trying to keep them from racing around the house, you need to find a good wood floor guy. You do have options with floors other than just full refinishing, have them take a look at it and discuss the options. Keep in mind that floor refinishing will probably cost at least $3/sqft if not quite a bit more depending on your area.

I'm a bit of a dick, so I'd probably tell the landlord to pound sand on trying to get the money out of you. I'm sure they saw your dogs before you moved in, and it was pretty stupid of them to not foresee this happening. So I guess I'd say figure on losing your security/damage deposit and maybe having to fight them a little bit in small claims court.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget
Grimey Drawer

galahan posted:

I'm going to say it's prefinished. That stuff scratches hella easy.
Prefinished should be significantly more durable than something you sand and finish yourself.

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004

n8r posted:

If you do a really good job of keeping a large dog's nails trimmed you can usually keep them from scratching floors badly. My dog has really large nails, and I try my best to keep them trimmed, she scratches the floors, but not severely. It was pretty dumb of you to even mention the damage of the floors to your landlord. It was pretty dumb of your landlord to rent a house with hardwood floors to someone with big dogs.

Aside from keeping your dogs nails well trimmed and trying to keep them from racing around the house, you need to find a good wood floor guy. You do have options with floors other than just full refinishing, have them take a look at it and discuss the options. Keep in mind that floor refinishing will probably cost at least $3/sqft if not quite a bit more depending on your area.

I'm a bit of a dick, so I'd probably tell the landlord to pound sand on trying to get the money out of you. I'm sure they saw your dogs before you moved in, and it was pretty stupid of them to not foresee this happening. So I guess I'd say figure on losing your security/damage deposit and maybe having to fight them a little bit in small claims court.

I have to agree you are a dick, and if a tenant's animals ruined my floors in one year and cost me several thousand dollars to refinish them I would try my hardest to wring them out in small claims. It would be a lot more than a little bit of fighting, and some decently dramatic photos and a bill from the floor refinishers would go a long way in court. Any rude or obnoxious correspondence involved would be even better. My speculation is that "your honor, it was pretty stupid of them to not forsee this happening" would not absolve you from financial responsibility from what in fact did happen after the fact.

Although suing tenants is unlikely to be worth your time financially, and collecting on judgments seems like a fools errand with most tenants, if a tenant basically told me to gently caress off after I asked them to pay for expensive damage they did to my property, it would probably be motivation for me go out of my way to get a judgment and garnishment order entered on their record. Possibly a lien if they or a cosigner have any property of value.

OatmealRocks
Jul 6, 2006
Burrp!
Anyone tell me what management companies charge for maintaining a property? I am interested in buying a property but it is 3 hours away. I've heard it is anywhere for 1 month's rent + % gross but I don't want to get scammed.

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004

OatmealRocks posted:

Anyone tell me what management companies charge for maintaining a property? I am interested in buying a property but it is 3 hours away. I've heard it is anywhere for 1 month's rent + % gross but I don't want to get scammed.

That's basically correct; you can expect a rental company to take 10-20% of your gross receipts plus a surcharge for various expenses and maintenance issues, depending upon the level of service you wish them to provide and the volume of business you are doing with them. The standard in my town is one month rent leasing fee and 8-12% of rent receipts for full service, you never see or hear from the tenant contracts. My basic advice to you is to not buy a property three hours away unless you are willing to drive there to deal with it and have a rolodex full of trustworthy plumbers, HVAC, handyman types to call on an emergency basis.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web
There's a reason landlords have pet deposits. If he lied about having pets or their size, that's one thing, but I would expect to have to refinish my floors if I was renting to someone with multiple large dogs, and charge accordingly with the pet deposits to cover that likelihood. What's in the lease to cover this situation? Follow that.

That said, I refinished my floors in my last house and it wasn't that hard and it only took a weekend. Rent a sander from Ace, buy stain and sealer, and it'll look better than when you moved in. Unless it's engineered flooring, in which case they really should not have rented to someone with dogs. Everybody in this situation seems to lack foresight.

Quaint Quail Quilt
Jun 19, 2006


Ask me about that time I told people mixing bleach and vinegar is okay

adorai posted:

Prefinished should be significantly more durable than something you sand and finish yourself.

I guess I should say; old wood is more durable than new factory farm wood. Also it depends on the finish I guess, YMMV.

The 100 year old house wood I've seen is indestructible.

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget
Grimey Drawer

galahan posted:

The 100 year old house wood I've seen is indestructible.
I agree that 100 year old hardwood is extremely durable, but the finish is not.

Bloody Queef
Mar 23, 2012

by zen death robot

moana posted:

There's a reason landlords have pet deposits. If he lied about having pets or their size, that's one thing, but I would expect to have to refinish my floors if I was renting to someone with multiple large dogs, and charge accordingly with the pet deposits to cover that likelihood. What's in the lease to cover this situation? Follow that.

That said, I refinished my floors in my last house and it wasn't that hard and it only took a weekend. Rent a sander from Ace, buy stain and sealer, and it'll look better than when you moved in. Unless it's engineered flooring, in which case they really should not have rented to someone with dogs. Everybody in this situation seems to lack foresight.

Depends on jurisdiction, but many states will not let you have more than 1.5 months of deposit, regardless of source. We'll behaved Dogs with well trimmed nails don't destroy a well finished floor. Old growth hardwood with a few layers of clear epoxy over the stain is very durable.


n8r posted:

I'm a bit of a dick, so I'd probably tell the landlord to pound sand on trying to get the money out of you. I'm sure they saw your dogs before you moved in, and it was pretty stupid of them to not foresee this happening. So I guess I'd say figure on losing your security/damage deposit and maybe having to fight them a little bit in small claims court.

Why do you constantly poo poo post in the landlord thread? You're a renter and seem to have a pretty lovely attitude toward landlords. Please create a tenant thread in EN or something and post about screwing over landlords there. This guy's dogs did damage beyond normal wear and tear. He is responsible both legally and morally to make it right.

Holy poo poo I pray that I never wind up with a tenant like you.

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004

moana posted:

There's a reason landlords have pet deposits. If he lied about having pets or their size, that's one thing, but I would expect to have to refinish my floors if I was renting to someone with multiple large dogs, and charge accordingly with the pet deposits to cover that likelihood. What's in the lease to cover this situation? Follow that.

That said, I refinished my floors in my last house and it wasn't that hard and it only took a weekend. Rent a sander from Ace, buy stain and sealer, and it'll look better than when you moved in. Unless it's engineered flooring, in which case they really should not have rented to someone with dogs. Everybody in this situation seems to lack foresight.

You can't do a satisfactory oil based polyurethane stain and seal in a weekend, it's simply not possible even in optimally temperature and humidity controlled conditions. I have no idea what you did to your floor in 48-72 hr but it was not a complete sand with three or more coats of oil based polyurethane. 7-8 days is really very reasonable to sand, stain, and allow the floor to dry sufficiently to move furniture back into the house. I would not do less than this treatment in a rental because oil will last a lot longer (>10 years) and look much nicer than a water based or whatever cheapo turbo stain process can be done as quickly and cheaply as possible.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web
We only did two coats and yeah, San Diego humidity, but it was definitely a weekend since it was a one day rental for the sander and we got it from Ace on Friday so we could have it over the weekend. My point was it's not that much work if they want to do it themselves and save on the bill.

As a possible future-hardwood-landlord, I'm trying to think what would be the best solution - would it make sense to just put in cheapo carpet to protect the floors if you care about scratches?

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget
Grimey Drawer
i would be pissed if a tenant tried to refinish themselves. There is a finite number of refinishings that can be done and if they, as a non professional, took off too much then they have stolen from future refurbishment.

BEHOLD: MY CAPE
Jan 11, 2004

moana posted:

We only did two coats and yeah, San Diego humidity, but it was definitely a weekend since it was a one day rental for the sander and we got it from Ace on Friday so we could have it over the weekend. My point was it's not that much work if they want to do it themselves and save on the bill.

As a possible future-hardwood-landlord, I'm trying to think what would be the best solution - would it make sense to just put in cheapo carpet to protect the floors if you care about scratches?

Yes, carpet is way, way cheaper and faster to deal with than hardwood floors. It can be done in a few hours and at about $1.50 a square foot or less installed for tenant friendly carpets if your local cost of labor is modest. The downside is that it will not last as long and is less desirable in rentals, however it is much easier to wring the cost of a carpet job out of a tenant/deposit should they choose to ruin it than the cost of a hardwood floor refinishing.

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar

Bloody Queef posted:

Depends on jurisdiction, but many states will not let you have more than 1.5 months of deposit, regardless of source. We'll behaved Dogs with well trimmed nails don't destroy a well finished floor. Old growth hardwood with a few layers of clear epoxy over the stain is very durable.


Why do you constantly poo poo post in the landlord thread? You're a renter and seem to have a pretty lovely attitude toward landlords. Please create a tenant thread in EN or something and post about screwing over landlords there. This guy's dogs did damage beyond normal wear and tear. He is responsible both legally and morally to make it right.

Holy poo poo I pray that I never wind up with a tenant like you.

Proud homeowner for 10+ years! :patriot:

Without seeing pics of the floors it's really hard to say if this damage is above and beyond normal wear and tear. The fact that the landlord is trying to setup a situation where they are saying the ~7 days to refinish the floors will cut into their income means they're probably going to try to screw him. The refinish job I had done at my house took them 4 days and that included laying down a new section of wood floor. I can't speak for the exact techniques these guys used, but they have a good reputation here and did a very nice job.

@moana - I'd say it depends a lot on your market and who you are renting to, but I'd definitely consider going over the top with carpet.

A big part of the reason why I'd tell the landlord to take a hike and go to court is because there is probably no easy answer on this one. The floors had some damage beforehand and scavok has probably done more than average wear and tear. Take pictures and get a good hardwood guy to come in and take a look at the damage that has been done. You may be freaking out about nothing. Scratches can look bad, but lots of the time they're pretty superficial, and there are lots of options that don't involve a full refinishing. If you don't do your due diligence I'm going to guess the landlord will try to stiff you for a full refinish.

scavok
Feb 22, 2005
Thanks for the responses. I'm not trying to get out of paying any amount, and a good portion can be covered by my security deposit, but at full cost I'm also paying for the value lost in the floor from normal wear and tear by previous tenants which seems egregious. As does a landlord assuming they can turn over a property to a new tenant in less than a week. I'm meeting the owner to see what liability she expects in a few days, and depending on that I'll consider doing the small claims thing.

The floors are yellow pine according to the refinishing quote she sent me, which is apparently one of the softest types of hard wood by the Janka Hardness Scale. Probably not a coincidence on why these floors got hosed and the floors at my previous places didn't have problems. Certainly something I now know to look at in the future.

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
Do you have pics of the damage?

SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X
You may consider dremeling your dogs nails more in the future, also. My folks had hardwoods (with a very, very hard Swedish wax finish?) and my 75lbs lab did no damage, nor did their Westie who while small, would lose traction and paw rapidly which should damage the wood. Same at my rental. You can see the damage from previous tenants dogs, but no new damage from my larger dog.

If they're clicking, they're too long! Dremel Ftw.

I also think there probably is some sort of prorate thing to do here. Floors were last done X years ago, should last Y years, you pay Z. And I'd get multiple quotes. My friends house had ~1,500sqft (maybe 2k, and a set of stairs which were spendy!) refinished with substantial damage and some wood replaced and quotes ranged from $1,500-4k. They went with the cheapest, who was very highly referred and we looked at sample work before they agreed to him, and it turned out perfect.

Mandalay
Mar 16, 2007

WoW Forums Refugee
As a dog haver (until recently) and renter, I never realized how much thought went into NO DOGS until this discussion. Either way it goes, thanks for bringing it up.

FlashBewin
May 17, 2009
Trimming this down to avoid needless details... Not sure if it matters or not, but it's in Michigan.

My sister died and owned five rental properties, condos. I own them now. I have five LLCs and one INC

I have each property in it's own LLC.

Each LLC is owned 100% by the INC.

Not only did my lawyer recommend this, but i also thought this meant that if someone got hurt/something went boom, the injured party could only go after the value/insurance of the LLC.


From what i understand, When tax season comes, i file taxes for me (the guy with a SSN) and taxes for the INC.

My sisters' mentor, who has been renting properties and owning businesses for a long time, said that i should put all five properties into the INC directly, as opposed to the LLC. He also said i should bump my insurance policy (Each property has a 300k policy) up to a million.

So what i have is LLCx5 ----> INC

What he recommended is 5 Properties ---> INC

Which is the right way to go?

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
Talk to an accountant, not a comedy forum.

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FlashBewin
May 17, 2009
Didn't think it would hurt to ask in this thread. See if anyone else has any experiences that might apply to my situation.

I'm inclined to leave things the way they are, even if the current situation is ~2 months old.

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