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thehomemaster posted:Yeah fair enough, sorry for the outburst. Maybe it isn't necessary to elaborate on the destination if the point is to describe the journey (ha ha, an old concept), but poo poo, it wasn't just a journey for the people on the ship but a journey for their parents, and their parents' parents. KSR might have his agenda but I think he left some debts unpaid. Ultimately I wouldn't call it a major criticism, and I'll recall judgment about the book "not knowing what it wants to be" until I've thought about it some more.
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Aug 10, 2015 04:37
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I agree that it wasn't explicitly spelled out, but basically Aurora (or any planet) is only really useful to them as a base for farming. If they can't start a larger/expanding ecology there, they're doomed. The pathogen lives in the water, mud, and in the air. Any local soil (and thus food) will be contaminated. They'll never be able to break quarantine. They can't interact with the planet aside from walking on it in suits. It's worse than dead. Part of the way those sections are written may be a reaction to KSR (and the world) finding out that Mars is covered in perchlorate salts, and thus poisonous. Terraforming Mars the way he described in the Mars trilogy is essentially impossible - we can't use the local dirt as a basis for soil, nor can we let our soil come in contact with the local dirt (or fines, which will get everywhere). We're stuck in sealed habitats until we can completely alter 1% of the planet's dirt. Possible, maybe, but only over thousands of years. I liked the constant inversion of generation ship tropes - the exciting, techno-problem-solving approach/planetfall is to Earth, not Aurora. The later generations don't misinterpret or forget their purpose, or fulfill a destiny, they decide for themselves what to do. The KSR trademark bowl-you-over-with-the-natural-world scene takes place not on an alien planet, but on a beach in (presumably) former California. drat, that last scene was so good, it's got to be the best written description of being in the ocean for the first time. And so at the end the reborn human washes up on an alien shore - and it's Earth - and it's not cheezy or corny. Even the little delta-v joke was perfect - the problem is that we space nerds see that term and think about spaceflight engineering problems, instead of water flowing to the sea. Which is actually more relevant to our lives? tl;dr watch this and remember that Earth is just as cool and alien as anywhere, and you can actually go there!
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Aug 10, 2015 05:17
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^on the money, cool video! I too absolutely loved the last scene, and I thought the mirror of the bleak middle of the book was perfect in every way.
thehomemaster fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 05:40
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Aurora, while an underwhelming book, isn't a space opera. Its dystopian hard sci fi focusing on biology.
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Aug 10, 2015 06:22
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My jimmies are rustled.
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Aug 10, 2015 07:37
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Not looking a them black bars; it seems like I need to set aside some power to get through Poseidons Childeren and find out what Aurora is all about.
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Aug 10, 2015 07:54
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thehomemaster posted:Yeah fair enough, sorry for the outburst. It's not your first when talking about a KSR book either, though it didn't hurt my feelings that one time so keep on trucking. What is it in his books that makes you love them so much that you'd go on the attack for it? Honest question!
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Aug 10, 2015 19:08
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I don't know if this is the right place to ask for a reccomendation but since I'd need it about my next space opera saga I guess I may try my luck here. First off: english is not my native language and since I'm going to read at least 5 books in a row of the same author his writing style matters fivefold. The fact is that I've read, in english, books by Frank Herbert (Dune), Alastair Reynolds (Pushing Ice) and Ian Banks (Hydrogen Sonata). Oh and Douglas Adams  Among those, I feel like Ian Banks scenario and plot had probably the kind of complexity I'm looking for. I don't know if deep is accurate, probably wide sounds more like it but the problem is that it was a goddamn pain to read. He has a totally different writing style than any other and it's a frigging kick in the brain for someone who's not mastering the language at frikken Harvard's level of spergitude. So, for the moment, I'd sack Ian Banks and his Culture books even if that's almost what I'm looking for. Better wider and inch deep than all focused on one or few characters and on one planet while the universe spins around, as in Dune. Here the candidates: - Alastair Reynolds, Revelation Space - David Brin, Uplift Saga - Jack Campbell, The Lost Fleet - Peter F. Hamilton, The Commonwealth Saga - Stephen Baxter, The Xelee Sequence - Vernor Vinge, A Fire Upon Deep (I've read lots of positive feedbacks about it/him but is this only one little tiny book?) Ok, they're all classics, I'm noob at space opera (too). Requests are: spanning across space, time and possibly both. Multidimensions are a plus. Aliens not so much even if I assume they are in all of em so let's say they are ok if it's not some sort of transposition of the Russians or the Nazi, Chinese, Korean or any other possible form of the eternal fight of good vs evil because I'd leave that to Disney and Hollywood. Wars and military poo poo are all good but they shouldn't be the main focus (as in Joe Haldeman's books for instance). Kind of easy reading or at least not IanBank-ish kind of writing. froody guy fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 23:16
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The aliens in A Fire Upon the Deep are all  or  USENET RACISM!
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Aug 10, 2015 23:58
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froody guy posted:Ok, they're all classics, I'm noob at space opera (too). Requests are: spanning across space, time and possibly both. Multidimensions are a plus. Aliens not so much even if I assume they are in all of em so let's say they are ok if it's not some sort of transposition of the Russians or the Nazi, Chinese, Korean or any other possible form of the eternal fight of good vs evil because I'd leave that to Disney and Hollywood. Kind of easy reading or at least not IanBank-ish kind of writing. Check out Vacuum Diagrams by Stephen Baxter. It's a collection of short stories that take place in Baxter's Xeelee Sequence universe and it spans the future of humanity from the first steps of space travel to millions of years into the future with a stage the spans literally the entire universe both in time and space. It's a pretty neat timeline, he's a decent writer (one of the earlier stories in the book made me tear up the 3 or so times I've read it), and if you end up liking it, he's written a bunch of novels that take place in that same universe but tend to have a much tighter focus within the Sequence. edit: well gently caress me, that'll teach me to skim. keeping because the Xeelee Sequence is awesome
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Aug 11, 2015 00:01
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Thanks for the feedback, since I forgot Dan Simmons (haven't downloaded it yet) I'm gonna change the list like so: - Alastair Reynolds, Revelation Space - David Brin, Uplift Saga - Jack Campbell, The Lost Fleet - Peter F. Hamilton, The Commonwealth Saga - Stephen Baxter, The Xelee Sequence - Dan Simmons, Hyperion Cantos As for Baxter I'm pretty curious about him. It'd be the first so called HardSF book or series that I read. Starting from short tales could be great if it doesn't spoil me off the "main story" of the other books. I'm saying that because I have Vacuum Diagram marked as the last of the Xeelee Sequence books so now you say I should start from that one and I'm all 
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Aug 11, 2015 00:28
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froody guy posted:Thanks for the feedback, since I forgot Dan Simmons (haven't downloaded it yet) I'm gonna change the list like so: I've actually never read any of the standalone books, so I can't offer any sage advice here. Vacuum Diagrams, despite being a collection of short stories as opposed to a novel, stands as one of my favorite space operas because of the sheer scale of it. If that's your primary interest, it probably will "spoil" the novels for you--like I said I understand them to be pretty singular in their focus. If you're more interested in a cohesive story with characters you'll be with for more than 50 pages, the standalone novels or even another series might be more worth your time. VD is amazing but its stories are connected only in that that they serve as an outline of this enormous universe and its major events. There is an interstitial story that ties them all together but it's perfunctory and hardly worth mentioning. edit: oh also look up Eon by Greg Bear Ben Nerevarine fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 00:51
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froody guy posted:I don't know if this is the right place to ask for a reccomendation but since I'd need it about my next space opera saga I guess I may try my luck here. Alastair Reynolds is solid, epic scope space opera. Workmanlike writing and pretty dry but not painful. Campbell's Lost Fleet is the same book written seven times. Same plot, same absurdly paper thin characters, bizarrely same relationship drama every book. Hamilton is a weird fish. The series is absolutely popcorn space opera like something out of the sixties, but with a ton of sex and just absurd plot points. Not bad writing as best I can judge. I found them enjoyable, but deep characters? Nah. Hamilton can't write endings though. Vinge is awesome. I prefer A Deepness in the Sky, which is my favorite Sci fi book of all time, but Fire is also outstanding. While Hyperion was actually decent the Endymion books are atrocious and retroactively make the first two much worse. Haven't read the others. Hope this helps! Velius fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 01:20
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I'd actually recommend Baxter's Destiny's Children sequence. (Coalescence, Transcendance, Exultant) --- the end actually ties in to the bigger Xeelee Saga, but is a little lighter on the 'Hard' but still has some of the Big Ideas Baxter is known for. If you like the Destiny's Children sequence, by all means, continue on to the Xeelee Saga. Personally, I enjoy the DC sequence more, but that's because in the XS I either really like or really hate the individual books in it.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:23
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Adding my support to the Xeelee books.
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Aug 11, 2015 01:36
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Michty me! Now I get why Iain Banks sounded so weird, he's a Scot och! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3j44ckt-E
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Aug 11, 2015 02:51
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Koesj posted:It's not your first when talking about a KSR book either, though it didn't hurt my feelings that one time so keep on trucking. What is it in his books that makes you love them so much that you'd go on the attack for it? Honest question! I think the best answer is I'm a dickhead?
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Aug 11, 2015 03:21
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Velius posted:While Hyperion was actually decent the Endymion books are atrocious and retroactively make the first two much worse. Also Dan Simmons has clearly been a victim of the brain eater for a good while now. EVIL MUSLIMS EVERYWHERE
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Aug 11, 2015 06:55
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If you're worried about A Fire Upon the Deep/A Deepness in the Sky being not big enough, I have an omnibus of the two and the tome is big and heavy enough to use for self-defence. They are perfectly fine as standalone books, mind you.
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Aug 11, 2015 10:27
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Any love for Charles Sheffield? I'm always forgetting to finally finish the heritage-cycle. I have every book except the last one. Are any of his other books any good? I just love his heritage-cycle so much because it has the best character and the best species ever. Kallik is the best.
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Aug 11, 2015 12:22
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Libluini posted:Any love for Charles Sheffield? I'm always forgetting to finally finish the heritage-cycle. I have every book except the last one. Are any of his other books any good? I just love his heritage-cycle so much because it has the best character and the best species ever. Could you tell me more about these books? I've heard they're good but I don't know much about the setting or plot. It involves alien ruins right? Also tell me about the cool species. I love SF worlds with awesome alien species (see: Mass Effect)
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Aug 11, 2015 12:52
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Hedrigall posted:Could you tell me more about these books? I've heard they're good but I don't know much about the setting or plot. It involves alien ruins right? Also tell me about the cool species. I love SF worlds with awesome alien species So, I'm describing from memory here and I'll try to keep it spoiler-free: The books revolve mostly around scientist Darya. She is trying to explore the batshit-crazy ruins left over by the ancient alien civilization only known as "The Builders". Every book centers around one of those ruins and Darya's adventures in trying to explore/understand it. Along the way she meets weirdos like Hans Rebka, a human colonist from a death world, an alien from another important species which can only talk in pheromones (they're blind) and of course, the best ever: Kallik, a Hymenopter. The Hymenopter are a species of insect/spider-like beings. They live in hives and have almost no contact to other species except for their habit of selling of their own workers as slaves to other species. Kallik is a worker-drone which ended up in the "employ" of one of Darya's enemies in the series. Since Kallik herself isn't one of those enemies, there's a lot of side-switching going on over the course of the series. Her sense of duty and her growing friendship with Darya essentially starts to conflict wildly. Hymenopter have eight legs, one large stinger, can change their own body-chemistry to switch what kind of poison their stingers can inject and they're ten times faster than the average human. They can't fly like boring old Earth-hymenoptera, though. (Wasps  )There are a lot of other characters and subplots going on in the background, like Hans Rebka's trouble with his home government, or the poo poo they get into after accidentally releasing the Zardalu: Old ancient death squids everyone fears like mad. I'll skip that, for obvious reasons. (Spoilers and my memories start getting hazy after that, it's bad enough I can only remember like three important characters anymore )
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Aug 11, 2015 13:22
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I read the first three (I think) Heritage books way back in the day and loved them. I haven't thought about them in years, though - kind of tempted to go back and read the full series, now. From what I remember of it, Hedrigall, if you liked Mass Effect I think you would definitely enjoy the universe the Heritage books establish. His Cold as Ice/The Ganymede Club I also really enjoyed, in retrospect they kind of remind me of an early Expanse setting. Though I think that's probably because both have some obvious influence from Larry Niven. And now I see that he wrote a third book there, too... so I might have a Sheffield re-read marathon session I need to work out. I remember he and Jerry Pournelle also wrote a series of YA libertarian space adventures which, if you manage to skip over the libertarian monologue parts, had some interesting settings. I remember one was basically a youth prison mining station in the asteroid belt.
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Aug 11, 2015 17:11
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Alright so Baxter looks like a safe bet and tbh he was one of the two I was thinking of based on what I've read around the web. Funny enough the other one was David Brin, which no one has even mentioned  If I'm not mistaken he's one of those "modern" writers (started in the 80's), he's a real scientist and belonging to the hardSF club, which is a good combo for me.
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Aug 11, 2015 21:19
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froody guy posted:Alright so Baxter looks like a safe bet and tbh he was one of the two I was thinking of based on what I've read around the web. Funny enough the other one was David Brin, which no one has even mentioned
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Aug 12, 2015 00:17
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g0del posted:Brin's great, he just hasn't written anything since the 90's so he's easy to forget. Kiln People - 2002 Existence - 2012
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Aug 12, 2015 01:14
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Velius posted:Hamilton is a weird fish. The series is absolutely popcorn space opera like something out of the sixties, but with a ton of sex and just absurd plot points. Not bad writing as best I can judge. I found them enjoyable, but deep characters? Nah. Hamilton can't write endings though. I'd throw Stephen R Donaldson's Gap Cycle into the choices, the first (and shortest) one is very, very dark though, and someone is bound to get upset that I didn't post a trigger warning by bringing up the name. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 15:31
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coyo7e posted:I'd throw Stephen R Donaldson's Gap Cycle into the choices, the first (and shortest) one is very, very dark though, and someone is bound to get upset that I didn't post a trigger warning by bringing up the name. I like the Gap Cycle and it is indeed very dark but I'm not sure I'd recommend it for someone who isn't confident in their English-reading ability. He tends to complex grammar and really obscure $10 words. Good books, good author, but I'd say his writing style is even more complex than Banks.
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Aug 12, 2015 16:11
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coyo7e posted:It's tough to find a Hamilton novel or series where the protagonist does not traverse space and/or time to have sex with a teenage girl.
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Aug 12, 2015 20:33
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Here's some space opera news: http://www.space.com/30262-syfy-channel-space-book-tv-adaptations.html I can't believe they're going to try and make Hyperion. It's one of my favorite sagas, but I don't how filmable it will be.
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Aug 15, 2015 03:31
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Mister Kingdom posted:Here's some space opera news: It's syfy, even were it extremely filmable it would still turn out like rotten trash that has been for a week repeatedly frozen and microwaved warm again.
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Aug 15, 2015 04:13
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Didn't Enders Game bomb? I'm shocked they're going to try another Sci fi epic from a homophobe so soon after...
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Aug 15, 2015 13:27
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Isn't it just going to be Beowulf with CG?
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Aug 15, 2015 15:31
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froody guy posted:I don't know if this is the right place to ask for a reccomendation but since I'd need it about my next space opera saga I guess I may try my luck here. Neal Asher might be up your alley then. Similar universe to Banks ie AIs rule everything although with faster pace. A lot more action than Banks and probably the best xenobiology in the genre. Of the others, Reynolds is solid and the Revelation Space series is great. Hamilton is pretty pulpy, but with a good pace in his stories, although one gets tired of him. As for Vinge, I never saw the greatness of him. His aliens are peculiarly human in their reasoning, which detracts a lot from the story.
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Aug 15, 2015 21:03
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Was anyone else frustrated with Jack McDevitt's The Engines of God, aka Hutch, series? Everything seems cool, an almost dead galaxy full of alien artifacts, a mysterious force destroying civlizations in cycles Mass Effect-style and so on. Oh, but let's have another 50 pages about Academy politics and let's give the main character an office job. Also, everyone is a cardboard cutout and the cultural predictions for the 23rd century are downright embarrassing. Now I'm stuck one third into the fifth book and can't force myself to finish it. A real pity, Chindi had some great moments.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:37
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thehomemaster posted:Dude the entire premise of, like, every book about generation ships is about how those who reach the end are not those that commenced the journey. Don't put revolution in quote marks either, it was a split down the middle with hundreds dead. They were dealing with an unknown pathogen (no even strictly bacterial/viral) so yes it's pretty clearly an almost impossible problem to solve. I mean, that's part of the genius of the book, how everyone freaks out about aliens with tentacles and consciousness, but like on earth it's the invisible things that would kill you. The entire book talked about Plan B, which was Iris. Half the ship wanted to stay, and the other half wanted to go home to the only planet they knew would support them. I still don't get how you can think anything was glossed over. What the gently caress were they reading? The point of the book was that people don't deserve to be condemned to exist inside of a tin can for the ideas and desires of people far removed from their situation, whether it be the initial long dead recruits, people of earth or the reader of the book.
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Aug 16, 2015 05:25
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mcustic posted:Was anyone else frustrated with Jack McDevitt's The Engines of God, aka Hutch, series? Everything seems cool, an almost dead galaxy full of alien artifacts, a mysterious force destroying civlizations in cycles Mass Effect-style and so on. Oh, but let's have another 50 pages about Academy politics and let's give the main character an office job. Also, everyone is a cardboard cutout and the cultural predictions for the 23rd century are downright embarrassing. Now I'm stuck one third into the fifth book and can't force myself to finish it. A real pity, Chindi had some great moments. You are not alone. I can't believe how badly a good setting was ruined.
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Aug 16, 2015 07:48
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Kesper North posted:You are not alone. I can't believe how badly a good setting was ruined. Care to spoil the ending for me, because I can't find a decent summary online?
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Aug 16, 2015 11:49
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mcustic posted:Care to spoil the ending for me, because I can't find a decent summary online? I read this a while ago, but I seem to recall that the clouds of civilization-destroying nanomachines roaming through the galaxy were actually an alien fireworks show, put on by creatures inhabiting the Lesser Magellanic Cloud. They shot these clouds into the main galaxy, programmed them to explode any time they hit something made of rectangles, and "seeded" a number of worlds with jumbles of rectangular blocks. They had no idea that other intelligences would develop and start building rectangular things. The solution to the threat posed by the clouds, after a half-dozen books of trying to deal with this existential threat, was to just drop a bunch of inert cubic objects in front of them.
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Aug 17, 2015 06:37
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Haha, what? That sounds amazing. A shame they hosed it up.
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Aug 17, 2015 13:01
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