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Discendo Vox posted:Twelve videos on a huffington post story don't make US police or, more significantly, US police training and education, a homogenous mass. "police are crazy" isn't useful or meaningful, and it obscures locating meaningful causes for specific outcomes- which is what is necessary in a setting of 10th amendment governance. Eh.. To be fair. Hearing all the talk about the cafes and red light district in Amsterdam makes most of the US think the Netherlands is a magical place with weed and hookers. Its not true, but stereotyping exists for a reason. Unless its stereotyping blacks. Which is wrong. Also, I like how the blm is all rabid dog about police violence but omits alarmingly high weekend body counts on south 41 in Chicago. #BLACKLIVESMATTER* * - when cops shoot them.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:59
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Genocide Tendency. Can you please vacate my thread? I like the thread and you are basically officer-involved shooting all over this thread with mag dumps of riot incitement. your last line was literal racist slogan spoken on Fox News and will just careen us to dark pits of posting hell. This thread has a place. Criminals killing people is not police reform. I don't give a poo poo about it.
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Aug 11, 2015 03:03
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Vahakyla posted:Criminals killing people is not police reform. I don't give a poo poo about it. That's a pretty horrible outlook to have.
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Aug 11, 2015 03:10
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Cole posted:That's a pretty horrible outlook to have. He pretty clearly means in the context of this thread. If you want to talk about a different issue, like that one, a new thread would be appropriate.
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Aug 11, 2015 03:12
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Cole posted:That's a pretty horrible outlook to have. I will care about it in some other thread. But in this thread I give as manh shits about it as I give of your grandma's thong.
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Aug 11, 2015 03:13
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Vahakyla posted:I will care about it in some other thread. But in this thread I give as manh shits about it as I give of your grandma's thong. you're still giving my grandma's thong some thought though, which is weird.
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Aug 11, 2015 03:14
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Genocide Tendency posted:Also, I like how the blm is all rabid dog about police violence but omits alarmingly high weekend body counts on south 41 in Chicago. #BLACKLIVESMATTER* When prosecutors stop indicting people for those crimes, there should be a conversation about that issue. Or do you not realize the issue is particularly about the lack of accountability and systemic, official backing for most instances of police violence?
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Aug 11, 2015 03:24
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Vahakyla posted:Genocide Tendency. Can you please vacate my thread? No. And just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't a valid point. I have said numerous times that there is a need for reform. I have said numerous times there is significant issues. Instead all that seems to happen is people dig up posts from other forums and call me racist. Then continue their dumb as gently caress "all cops are bad" routine. There is no debate or discussion here. And getting pissy because someone is trying to actually point out the bullshit is acting like a three year old. Also you started a thread. Its not yours. Its not some loving piece of property. It gets shut down because you have drooling retards who reply to posts they don't like but can't actually counter by saying "You're missing the point". Thats why it gets shut down. It gets shut down because you have morons who go post fishing in other subforums because they can't discuss something like a god drat adult. You have an issue? Take it up with them.  MY THREAD Shut the gently caress up. Be a loving grown up and have an actual discussion. Also. Update on the highway protest: https://www.facebook.com/tacticalshit/videos/vb.1413185958903624/1670494746506076/?type=2&theater Great form, solid landing, kept the perp secure. 10/10.
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Aug 11, 2015 03:25
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Soooooooooo Can we, establish a system where some posters appointed or deputized by the community as a whole police the community, enforce it's rules and act as guardians of the society? Like, give me a forums badge and a gun and I'll use some lethal force and I'll make sure this thread's picket fences stay white, that the average poster sees no evil and that the wrong kind of poster stays on THE OTHER side of the railro... i mean GBS. Tia.
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Aug 11, 2015 03:27
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Sorry can't help myself  Genocide Tendency posted:Chicago. Lol you know nothing about Chicago, do you? People hold rallies to try to put an end to the violence all the time, but the people perpetrating it are put in jail so it doesn't have much to do with what we're discussing.
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Aug 11, 2015 03:27
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Soooooo You are basically saying the mods don't do their job? Thats kinda against the rules. Just like racism which numerous people in this thread keep accusing me of.  Or do the rules not apply to the owner of the thread? #POSTERRAPSHEETSMATTER
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Aug 11, 2015 03:29
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Genocide Tendency posted:No. Threadshitting at it's finest.
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Aug 11, 2015 03:29
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Genocide Tendency posted:Soooooo Post your dumb poo poo in some other thread.
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Aug 11, 2015 03:30
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Tubesock Holocaust posted:Threadshitting at it's finest. Irony. Not something you do to shirts. Internet Explorer posted:Post your dumb poo poo in some other thread. Trying to shout me down has worked so far!
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Aug 11, 2015 03:32
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Even if you look at state-by-state breakdowns in incarceration or police shootings, the US is a huge outlier. For example, Maine imprisons three times as many people as Canada per capita. Police killings are rare enough that it's harder to break them down by state, but the US rate there is around five times that of Canada. The United States is insanely punitive compared to other first world nations, even in the "best" parts of it.
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Aug 11, 2015 04:00
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Lyesh posted:Even if you look at state-by-state breakdowns in incarceration or police shootings, the US is a huge outlier. For example, Maine imprisons three times as many people as Canada per capita. Police killings are rare enough that it's harder to break them down by state, but the US rate there is around five times that of Canada. A significant part of the disparity in incarceration rates is a result of terrible drug policies. Which, if politicians are actually being honest for once, is going to be addressed. The legal system and blanket sentences, especially in drug offences, is a big part of the failings of the justice system.
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Aug 11, 2015 04:04
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Genocide Tendency posted:A significant part of the disparity in incarceration rates is a result of terrible drug policies. Which, if politicians are actually being honest for once, is going to be addressed. The cops could just stop shooting unarmed black people, too. That would go a long ways towards fixing the failing criminal justice system. "Washington Post" posted:
Nothing to see here, everyone move along. and seriously, cops have shot almost 600 people already this year, in August? More guns for everyone! Pohl fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 04:07
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nevermind, misread it
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Aug 11, 2015 04:19
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Pohl posted:The cops could just stop shooting unarmed black people, too. That would go a long ways towards fixing the failing criminal justice system. Ah yes. Because this is discussion. You know, not actually looking at the reason that cops are confronting an unarmed black person. Like vandalizing a car dealership. Or why they are responding with deadly force instead of a tazer. Or why a trainee is carrying a loaded firearm with out the obvious training they need.... Again. Discuss things like an adult. But thats not this thread's thing. quote:Nothing to see here, everyone move along. Hmmm... Maybe.. Just maybe statistics with out context doesn't tell the whole story. Like how cops shot that prison escapee dead. Or shot that other prison escapee.
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Aug 11, 2015 04:23
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St Louis County has declares state of emergency. There is still some marching going on, also. Is Equine Don on the site? If so, gimme some news, man. Is this gonna be an annual thing? Hopefully.
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Aug 11, 2015 04:47
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Genocide Tendency posted:Ah yes. Dude, people have already posted evidence in this thread that the police disproportionately target minorities even after accounting for crime rates. These other problems you mention also exist and have also been repeatedly mentioned in this thread. The only reason the racism thing keeps being brought up is that there are people (well, mostly you at this point) who are still denying it. Because very few, if any, people are denying the fact that police training needs to be improved, there is no real room for discussion on that front. I actually see this debate "strategy" used a lot by intellectually dishonest people like you, where "why are you all talking about (controversial thing) instead of (uncontroversial thing)" is used as an argument despite the fact that the person making the argument is the main reason why the controversial thing keeps entering the discussion. Genocide Tendency posted:Hmmm... Maybe.. Just maybe statistics with out context doesn't tell the whole story. Actually, relevant statistics absolutely can tell the whole story. Something like "after accounting for crime rates, black people are arrested more frequently and punished more harshly" is incontrovertible proof that the criminal justice system is racist/has many racist components. The fact that many people use misleading statistics to lie doesn't change the fact that statistics can be used correctly to prove things. Also, just to make things even more clear, in many cases the racist part isn't that a black person was shot for carjacking/whatever; it's that a white person committing the same crime is much less likely to be shot under the same circumstances (as well as likely to receive a more lenient sentence if arrested).
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Aug 11, 2015 04:51
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Leave it to GT to complain about taking information out of context, as though he never spent pages trying to insist the context of institutional racism wasn't applicable to a black woman being dragged out of her car and arrested for an unsignaled lane change and later murdered in her jail cell. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 11, 2015 04:57
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Ytlaya posted:
You can't prove things with statistics, this is like something you learn in stats 101. Google "type I/II errors" for more info.
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Aug 11, 2015 05:00
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Aug 11, 2015 05:01
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Mah man. Also lol at Wilson crying during sex. He does like he does it.
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Aug 11, 2015 05:05
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Free the Guy
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Aug 11, 2015 05:17
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:You can't prove things with statistics, this is like something you learn in stats 101. Google "type I/II errors" for more info. It's kind of implied that when I say "proved" I mean "the chance of this pattern occurring due to random chance is trivial." I mean, yeah, technically science rarely ever proves anything; it just shows that the chance of certain things not being the case is negligible. edit: I'll actually change what I initially said somewhat - if someone can explain what extra, uncontrolled for factor could result in the disproportionate sentencing/conviction of minorities, I would be very interested to hear it. I also acknowledge the infinitesimally small chance that minorities have been treated more poorly entirely due to chance. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 05:20
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:You can't prove things with statistics, this is like something you learn in stats 101. Google "type I/II errors" for more info. You're absolutely right but you can use statistics to say something like "we are 95% certain that x causes y". That's the whole point of statistics.
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Aug 11, 2015 05:23
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No, that's not a good analogy; not being able to prove things is utterly fundamental to statistics as a science. Also it's not like we're talking about the higgs boson with a 6 sigma pval, social science studies are extremely noisy. Also it's not like there's a list of "controls", no study controls for everything- again this is why stats 101 drills it into your head you aren't proving things.
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Aug 11, 2015 05:26
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Well, can we get the regression that shows this posted again? It'd be more productive to discuss it in the concrete.
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Aug 11, 2015 05:27
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:You're absolutely right but you can use statistics to say something like "we are 95% certain that x causes y". That's the whole point of statistics. This is also an incorrect interpretation of frequentist statistics. I mean not trying to be a dick here but this is real basic stuff you'll see in any intro class. e: to expand, being 'confidence' and 'certain' are not analogous concepts using normal definitions. TROIKA CURES GREEK fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 05:27
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^^^ You're just arguing semantics at this point; the general point is obviously "statistics can tell you useful things about a set of data."TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:No, that's not a good analogy; not being able to prove things is utterly fundamental to statistics as a science. Also it's not like we're talking about the higgs boson with a 6 sigma pval, social science studies are extremely noisy. Also it's not like there's a list of "controls", no study controls for everything- again this is why stats 101 drills it into your head you aren't proving things. Again, you can still show that things are extremely likely with statistics. And it is possible to do this with certain topics under the banner of "social sciences." Actually, some scientific topics are possibly even noisier than many social ones; trying to associate complex phenotypes with gene expression comes to mind. "You can't prove anything with statistics!" in response to people using statistics to support their position is about up there with people who take Econ 101 and think that increasing the minimum wage will automatically cause massive inflation or something. People take some point that is technically true and then misapply it. If there is something wrong with a study's methodology, it should be possible to explain what that is. Speaking of which, I would also like for whatever the study was to be posted again so we could look at it. I remember it being convincing, but I can't expect anyone else to be convinced without seeing/evaluating it themselves.
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Aug 11, 2015 05:39
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Somehow American police have killed more people last month that the combined police forces of Western Europe in the last several years, yet there is no epidemic of disastrous consequences for those police forces or communities. It's almost as if the immediate jump to the use of lethal force in the United States isn't necessary. It is evident that, in the US, we are dealing with very different social and systematic factors than in Europe. Until these things change for the better, police should be able to shoot anyone who tries to overtake them while they are in possession of a gun.
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Aug 11, 2015 05:48
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Judakel posted:It is evident that, in the US, we are dealing with very different social and systematic factors than in Europe. Until these things change for the better, police should be able to shoot anyone who tries to overtake them while they are in possession of a gun. Except that the license for belligerence and perception of neighborhood free-fire zones where a cop can just gun anyone down and back-in a justification that their victim can't refute due to a case of death are contributing factors to those different social and systemic factors.
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Aug 11, 2015 06:11
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Judakel posted:It is evident that, in the US, we are dealing with very different social and systematic factors than in Europe. Until these things change for the better, police should be able to shoot anyone who tries to overtake them while they are in possession of a gun. Bottom line if officers weren't so quick to brandish weapons in an attempt to force compliance then they would be less worried about someone taking their weapon or overtaking them
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Aug 11, 2015 06:14
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Obviously society just needs more Technology degrees. Everything will be great when we accomplish that. Edit: Eh, that wasn't meant for this thread. Pohl fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 06:21
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Judakel posted:It is evident that, in the US, we are dealing with very different social and systematic factors than in Europe. Until these things change for the better, police should be able to shoot anyone who tries to overtake them while they are in possession of a gun. Guns are the solution to our problems. Guns are the reason for our problems. The US is a special flower.
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Aug 11, 2015 06:23
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We need this in the OP.
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Aug 11, 2015 06:59
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Judakel posted:It is evident that, in the US, we are dealing with very different social and systematic factors than in Europe. Until these things change for the better, police should be able to shoot anyone who tries to overtake them while they are in possession of a gun. This is why officers shouldn't bring loving firearms into every goddamn interaction with the public. But I'm quoting Judakel about guns so 
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Aug 11, 2015 07:11
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This thread lasted about 8 hours before everyone started posting about each other again. The irony of this post is not lost on me.
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Aug 11, 2015 08:36
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