Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Can't fault people for resenting the enforcers.

Right. The problem though is when you have city leadership essentially ordering their police to be dicks about malum prohibitum offenses because budget balancing is haaaaard...and then acting shocked, shocked I say, when the cops act like dicks.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 15:26

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# ? May 28, 2024 02:43

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

ActusRhesus posted:

Right. The problem though is when you have city leadership essentially ordering their police to be dicks about malum prohibitum offenses because budget balancing is haaaaard...and then acting shocked, shocked I say, when the cops act like dicks.

The bigger problem happens after the cops act like dicks. Unless the incident is caught on film the officers themselves show a lack of integrity case in point, Tensing' partners claiming he was dragged. Then when that falls apart, you have people in your field refusing to even bring charges against an officer, case in point Garner.

It's not the city pulling the trigger or refusing to try the officer or tank the case when they do.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 16:08

Murderion: Oct 4, 2009; 2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME

Hot off the gibbis press, the slendy stabbers are being tried as adults:

quote:

Two 13-year-old-girls accused of brutally stabbing a classmate to please make-believe horror character "Slender Man" will be charged as adults, a Wisconsin judge ruled on Monday.

The girls are each facing one count of attempted first-degree homicide, where they could face up to 65 years in prison if convicted as adults, according to the Associated Press. In the juvenile court system, the girls would only have been held for five years, until they turned 18.

NBC affiliate WTMJ reported Monday that the girls' attorneys said trying their clients in adult court would be cruel and unusual punishment, and argued that the teens would get better mental health treatment in the juvenile system.

The two Waukesha teens are accused of luring their friend to the woods in May 2014 where she was repeatedly stabbed in an effort to please the fictional online ghoul Slender Man.

According to interrogation tapes released by Waukesha Police, the two girls said they believed the Internet character could hurt them or their families if they didn't carry out the attack.

All three girls were 12-years-old at the time of the attack, in which the victim was stabbed 19 times but lived.

NBC News is not currently naming the suspects in case the trials are moved back to juvenile court, where proceedings are closed to the public.

I figured this comes under the "criminal justice" side of things.

Hilarity aside, what's the point in trying children as adults? I understand the horribly evil justifications for it, but is there any publicly stated reason beyond :byodood:

TURF ON CRAME? Given their defense for doing this, it's pretty clear these kids were incapable of understanding what they were doing.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 16:22

DARPA: Apr 24, 2005; We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over.

Mental health services would stop at 18 if they were tried as juveniles. Tried as adults they will still be housed in a juvenile detention center, but after 18 will continue to receive services. Can't find the source I read that in from early this morning.

edit: Here's some info. One has early onset schizophrenia, the other has some other mental health issues.

quote:

Weier's doctors have testified that the girl resists medication for her early-onset schizophrenia because she believes it will prevent her from communicating with her "only friends," which include characters from the "Harry Potter" and "Star Trek" universes.

quote:

[Waukesha County Circuit Court Judge Michael] Bohren noted that both girls would continue to receive education and start to receive treatment for their various mental disorders until age 18, regardless of whether the venue was juvenile or adult court.
But "this court has to be concerned with what happens at age 18," the judge said at Monday's hearing.
Transferring the case to the juvenile system would "unduly depreciate" the seriousness of the offense, Bohren said, adding that the girls and the community at large would not be protected if they were released without restriction at age 18.
In the adult system, there is the possibility of imprisonment or supervised release at 18, he said. source

DARPA fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Aug 11, 2015

# ? Aug 11, 2015 16:24

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

I could never understand the idea of separating child and adult crime when you can almost randomly decide to try kids as adults if you felt like the crime was scary enough. It feel like another area where the law can be on the fly changed depending on who the victim or perpetrator is.

DARPA posted:

Mental health services would stop at 18 if they were tried as juveniles. Tried as adults they will still be housed in a juvenile detention center, but after 18 will continue to receive services. Can't find the source I read that in from early this morning.

Welp there's my answer. Our system is so goofy and patched together.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 16:25

Zarkov Cortez: Aug 18, 2007; Alas, our kitten class attack ships were no match for their mighty chairs

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Hell, a traffic camera won't even pop me for going 40 in a 35, and it knows I'm going 40 in a 35, and it's not even a "real" ticket (no points, etc.), but you've still got cops pulling people over for going 1 over, even though it's dangerous for them to do so?

What's at stake?

That chance that when the vehicle is stopped you detect a faint odour of something, and discover that El Chapo is concealed in the trunk.

Or more likely things like this,
http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/03/12/cops-use-traffic-stops-to-seize-millions-from-drivers-never-charged-with-a-crime/
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/21/us/asset-seizures/

# ? Aug 11, 2015 16:46

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Murderion posted:

Hot off the gibbis press, the slendy stabbers are being tried as adults:

I figured this comes under the "criminal justice" side of things.

Hilarity aside, what's the point in trying children as adults? I understand the horribly evil justifications for it, but is there any publicly stated reason beyond TURF ON CRAME? Given their defense for doing this, it's pretty clear these kids were incapable of understanding what they were doing.

It's Waukesha County. It's the most conservative county in Wisconsin. Possibly anywhere even. They have >100% registered voter turnout every election with >98% of votes going to the Republicans. This was inevitable and completely unsurprising.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 16:50

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

It's Waukesha County. It's the most conservative county in Wisconsin. Possibly anywhere even. They have >100% registered voter turnout every election with >98% of votes going to the Republicans. This was inevitable and completely unsurprising.

Its so they can have mental health services for life instead of just the next handful of years.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 16:54

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Radish posted:

I could never understand the idea of separating child and adult crime when you can almost randomly decide to try kids as adults if you felt like the crime was scary enough. It feel like another area where the law can be on the fly changed depending on who the victim or perpetrator is.

Welp there's my answer. Our system is so goofy and patched together.

Juvenile inmates cannot be houses past 18. Juveniles tried as adults can be housed in a juvenile facility until 18 then transferred to adult facilities.
It makes sense in cases where you feel they will still pose a threat after the expiration of their 18th birthday. (For example a 17 year old with three murders)

# ? Aug 11, 2015 16:57

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Pohl posted:

There is something amazing going on here.

AR is clearly a transshamer.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 17:04

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

ActusRhesus posted:

Juvenile inmates cannot be houses past 18. Juveniles tried as adults can be housed in a juvenile facility until 18 then transferred to adult facilities.
It makes sense in cases where you feel they will still pose a threat after the expiration of their 18th birthday. (For example a 17 year old with three murders)

Thanks. It still feel weird but I appreciate the explanation.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 17:05

tsa: Feb 3, 2014

DrNutt posted:

Those numbers don't exactly say "high risk" in a country with around 350 million people.

So what? There are millions of black people and how many get murdered by police? An extremely small percentage of course. That doesn't mean it's not a problem hth!

I will agree that police overestimating their risk is a problem - it's something everyone does (people suck at statistics and estimating risk as a rule) -but your line of argumentation here is really shittyand hypocritical.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 17:08

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

So something I saw on NY1 (a local 24 hour cable channel on Time Warner for NYC) last night was just more proof that the NYPD is the greatest enemy to the city of New York there is. The Sergeant Benevolent Association is encouraging all of its members to post pictures of homeless people in the city on a page on their website about the "decline" of a great city. They of course claim this isn't political and that the cops are the last city workers without a contract had nothing to do with it. Much like how back in May the police and local media were hyping a massive crime wave until Mayor DeBlasio agreed to hire a few thousand more cops and the next day the police pretty much admitted they had been over hyping it.

I'm kind of surprised there isn't sine kind of NYC or State megathread considering how almost shamelessly corrupt politics is in New York there's always something happening.

And to touch on Blue Lives Matter, I live on Staten Island and it's pretty much Just World Fallacy the geographical location. It seems like every one that lives here is either a cop, related to someone who is a cop or have friends that are cops so criticizing the police for anything is non starter. This is the place that sent Michael loving Grimm to Congress and than rewarded the DA who let the cop who killed Eric Garner walk. Which it turns it a buddy of mine lives near where that cops parents live and for the last year and up until this post and probably beyond they've had 24/7 police protection outside. Which I thought was absurd to begin with, but at this point after it I think it's even more so. But in summary Staten Island is a horrid loving place living here sometimes feels like living in a red state thank god the rat of the city is a boat ride away.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 17:28

A Shitty Reporter: Oct 29, 2012; Dinosaur Gum

~~Oh hey, the people criticizing known racist Genocide Tendency got probations just as long as he did. Thanks, AA.~~
Disregard, I'm an idiot.

More on topic, have there been any fatalities from the Ferguson anniversary protests? I haven't been following those as closely as I should have.

A Shitty Reporter fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Aug 11, 2015

# ? Aug 11, 2015 17:30

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

GT was probated for a month, a month is not three days. His racism is obvious trolling. Stop responding to or about him. This is why this thread is lovely.

To answer your edit: looks like 4 people shot. No one dead.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 17:42

Monaghan: Dec 29, 2006

Murderion posted:

Hot off the gibbis press, the slendy stabbers are being tried as adults:

I figured this comes under the "criminal justice" side of things.

Hilarity aside, what's the point in trying children as adults? I understand the horribly evil justifications for it, but is there any publicly stated reason beyond TURF ON CRAME? Given their defense for doing this, it's pretty clear these kids were incapable of understanding what they were doing.

The youth criminal justice system in America is appalling and I always thought allowing the states to make criminal law was the dumbest loving thing.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 18:12

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Monaghan posted:

The youth criminal justice system in America is appalling and I always thought allowing the states to make criminal law was the dumbest loving thing.

For delinquency cases, sure. Not gonna weep about a 17 year old with three murder charges going to big boy prison.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 18:36

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

ActusRhesus posted:

For delinquency cases, sure. Not gonna weep about a 17 year old with three murder charges going to big boy prison.

If he is not fit enough to buy alcohol, why do we demand him to be fullu responsible?

A 17 year old is a child.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 18:43

Monaghan: Dec 29, 2006

ActusRhesus posted:

For delinquency cases, sure. Not gonna weep about a 17 year old with three murder charges going to big boy prison.

Naturally there's some exceptions, but the youth incarceration rate in the united states is insanely high.

For all it's flaws I'm a big supporter of Canada's Youth Criminal Justice Act, which specifically dictates that youth are to be tried differently and that youth can't serve their detention in an adult facility. It doesn't go " well crime was bad therefore you get treated differently."

Monaghan fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Aug 11, 2015

# ? Aug 11, 2015 18:44

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

ActusRhesus posted:

Juvenile inmates cannot be houses past 18. Juveniles tried as adults can be housed in a juvenile facility until 18 then transferred to adult facilities.
It makes sense in cases where you feel they will still pose a threat after the expiration of their 18th birthday. (For example a 17 year old with three murders)

We keep our juvi murders (all 3 of them left) until 25, and we have a mental health type confinment afterwards. See, CA isn't all bad!
These are 12 year olds who believed in a mythical internet ghoul. We should be focused on reforming them, not keeping them in prison for thier whole lives. If they get 45 to life, they are loving done. And that seems a waste. 12 isn't too old to save.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 18:49

Dead Reckoning: Sep 13, 2011

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Seems to me like we should cut down on bullshit traffic stops then. We've already got those plate scanner things, just mail them a citation like red light cameras.

I don't think you've thought this through all the way. How does this work with DUIs? Do you just get a letter in the mail telling you license is suspended for a year because you were weaving? How can machine vision tell if someone is driving recklessly? Kansas City got sued last year because their red light cameras were hitting a ton of false positives. Do we really want to set up a panopticon to watch all drivers at all times?

# ? Aug 11, 2015 18:55

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

Dead Reckoning posted:

I don't think you've thought this through all the way. How does this work with DUIs? Do you just get a letter in the mail telling you license is suspended for a year because you were weaving? How can machine vision tell if someone is driving recklessly?

He said, "bullshit traffic stops".

# ? Aug 11, 2015 18:57

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Dead Reckoning posted:

I don't think you've thought this through all the way. How does this work with DUIs? Do you just get a letter in the mail telling you license is suspended for a year because you were weaving? How can machine vision tell if someone is driving recklessly? Kansas City got sued last year because their red light cameras were hitting a ton of false positives. Do we really want to set up a panopticon to watch all drivers at all times?

I think his arguement is for equipment violations not moving violations.
While I kinda hate bullshit traffic stops, I hate people with brake lights out more and making them wait two weeks minimum before they find out they have a brake light out (because who checks thier lights anymore) is crap.
Cops can have guns and not kill people. Only like 5 countries have unarmed cops for a reason. (Norway, UK, Ireland, Iceland, and New Zealand) and I'd note that the rural cop I had to call in Iceland due to a mechanical on an f-road did have a gun in his car, so tht might be an urban cop (where they have backup).

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:03

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Vahakyla posted:

If he is not fit enough to buy alcohol, why do we demand him to be fullu responsible?

A 17 year old is a child.

Part of sentencing is public safety. And deterrence.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:04

beejay: Apr 7, 2002

Also he never said watch all drivers at all times. A policeman on patrol would notice a driver with a busted taillight or whatever, scan the plate and they would get mailed a ticket. Pretty reasonable.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:04

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

nm posted:

We keep our juvi murders (all 3 of them left) until 25, and we have a mental health type confinment afterwards. See, CA isn't all bad!
These are 12 year olds who believed in a mythical internet ghoul. We should be focused on reforming them, not keeping them in prison for thier whole lives. If they get 45 to life, they are loving done. And that seems a waste. 12 isn't too old to save.

They also failed some initial competence evals. I will bet they don't get 45 to life.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:06

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

Vahakyla posted:

If he is not fit enough to buy alcohol, why do we demand him to be fullu responsible?

A 17 year old is a child.

I'd be willing to guess that unless he were mentally deficient in some manner, a 17-year-old is fully aware of why multiple murder is bad and how bad it is.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:07

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

ActusRhesus posted:

Part of sentencing is public safety. And deterrence.

Considering the youth incarceration rate in the US I'd say 'deterrence' is a big failure.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:07

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

ActusRhesus posted:

Part of sentencing is public safety. And deterrence.

I doubt there is any deterrence effect for juveniles committing murder. And it's weird how other countries have less juvenile violence and basically fractions of the sentencing.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:08

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

ActusRhesus posted:

They also failed some initial competence evals. I will bet they don't get 45 to life.

If it is like California's juvi system, they "passed" competency evals to be tried as adults. And all it really means is that the elected judge (remember wisconsin is the place you can buy your way on the supreme court) determined that they had enough mental capacity to be tried as adults, which really means he decided this was a high profile case and in the next election if he had them tried as juviniles he's see attack ads calling him weak on murderers.

The whole thing is posturing. Even in this hosed up state 12 year olds can't be treated as adults. Because they're loving 12. (14 though and you're fair game). The adult system cannot deal with persons that young and is not equiped to deal with thier needs. The whole "they need mental healthcare" is almost certainly poo poo because juvi judges, probation officers (who do more than probation), and mental health people know how to deal with youth. Adult court is lost.
Also, as for deterence, that requires some rationality and reasoning, which 12 year olds who believe in an internet boogie man don't have.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:19

kaynorr: Dec 31, 2003

chitoryu12 posted:

I'd be willing to guess that unless he were mentally deficient in some manner, a 17-year-old is fully aware of why multiple murder is bad and how bad it is.

And I'd be willing to guess that there is very good chance that an honest evaluation would show that he was mentally deficient in some manner.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:42

DARPA: Apr 24, 2005; We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over.

nm posted:

Also, as for deterence, that requires some rationality and reasoning, which 12 year olds who believe in an internet boogie man don't have.

Deterrence doesn't even work for adults, much less children with mental health issues or TBIs. (Nearly Half Of All Jailed Youths In New York City Have Brain Injury)

quote:

1. The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment.
2. Sending an offender to prison isn�t a very effective way to deter crime.
3. Police deter crime by increasing the perception that criminals will be caught and punished.
4. Increasing the severity of punishment does little to deter crime.
5. There is no proof that the death penalty deters criminals.

National institute of Justice

But it's easier to toss troublesome people in solitary, cycle mental health cases through the justice system repeatedly, or outright kill them, than it is to lift them out of deplorable conditions, which is why I'm hopeful for the NYC program I posted earlier to get help to those with mental issues.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:53

Dead Reckoning: Sep 13, 2011

nm posted:

I think his arguement is for equipment violations not moving violations.
While I kinda hate bullshit traffic stops, I hate people with brake lights out more and making them wait two weeks minimum before they find out they have a brake light out (because who checks thier lights anymore) is crap.

Cops can have guns and not kill people. Only like 5 countries have unarmed cops for a reason. (Norway, UK, Ireland, Iceland, and New Zealand) and I'd note that the rural cop I had to call in Iceland due to a mechanical on an f-road did have a gun in his car, so tht might be an urban cop (where they have backup).

I suppose he should have been clearer about what he thought was a "bullshit" stop then. I'd agree with you that the whole point of giving someone a fix-it ticket for equipment or an expired registration is so that they fix it ASAP. I don't think that police performing traffic stops as a regular part of their duties is a root cause of the problems with crime and law enforcement in this country.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 19:58

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

kaynorr posted:

And I'd be willing to guess that there is very good chance that an honest evaluation would show that he was mentally deficient in some manner.

The question is whether or not a 17-year-old is mature enough to inherently understand that multiple murder is a capital crime (hence calling him a "child" and stating that he shouldn't have full responsibility). Mental illness or disability would be a mitigating factor, yes, but that's not what's being debated here.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 20:29

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

tsa posted:

So what? There are millions of black people and how many get murdered by police? An extremely small percentage of course. That doesn't mean it's not a problem hth!

I will agree that police overestimating their risk is a problem - it's something everyone does (people suck at statistics and estimating risk as a rule) -but your line of argumentation here is really shittyand hypocritical.

No it's not. When someone decides to become a police officer, there is an assumption that the career they are going into has a (vastly exaggerated but still relevant) measure of risk to their personal safety. Any random black person should not have to fear things like "driving to work" or "walking home" any more than anyone else.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 21:05

beejay: Apr 7, 2002

Dead Reckoning posted:

I suppose he should have been clearer about what he thought was a "bullshit" stop then. I'd agree with you that the whole point of giving someone a fix-it ticket for equipment or an expired registration is so that they fix it ASAP. I don't think that police performing traffic stops as a regular part of their duties is a root cause of the problems with crime and law enforcement in this country.

The original argument started when someone suggested that police shouldn't have guns on them at all times, for example during a traffic stop, and then someone said that even routine or "bullshit" traffic stops can be life-threatening to police which is why they have guns and are prepared to shoot someone. Then someone suggested the plate scanning thing. I'm not sure how serious the plate scanning suggestion was, or whether it was somewhat sarcastic to point out how ridiculous it is that police are considered to be in mortal danger at all times.

It's actually really easy to trace quotes back by clicking on the usernames in the quotes, and following the argument backwards. This way you can get context and understand the overall argument instead of nitpicking the latest post you saw.

beejay fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Aug 11, 2015

# ? Aug 11, 2015 21:06

zzyzx: Mar 2, 2004

nm posted:

If it is like California's juvi system, they "passed" competency evals to be tried as adults. And all it really means is that the elected judge (remember wisconsin is the place you can buy your way on the supreme court) determined that they had enough mental capacity to be tried as adults, which really means he decided this was a high profile case and in the next election if he had them tried as juviniles he's see attack ads calling him weak on murderers.

The operative bits seem to be WI statutes 938.183 and 970.032, which provide that the adult court has original jurisdiction over juveniles as young as 10(!) charged with attempted or completed first-degree murder.

The juvenile gets a PC hearing where the judge has to find PC and then decide whether or not to transfer the case to juvi court, relying on whether the defense can prove that (1) adult court can't treat her adequately, (2) transfer won't undermine the seriousness of the offense, and (3) adult court isn't necessary to deter bad things. Doesn't sound like competency is built in, though I assume they're going to get evaluated at some point.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 21:23

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

beejay posted:

The original argument started when someone suggested that police shouldn't have guns on them at all times, for example during a traffic stop, and then someone said that even routine or "bullshit" traffic stops can be life-threatening to police which is why they have guns and are prepared to shoot someone. Then someone suggested the plate scanning thing. I'm not sure how serious the plate scanning suggestion was, or whether it was somewhat sarcastic to point out how ridiculous it is that police are considered to be in mortal danger at all times.

It's actually really easy to trace quotes back by clicking on the usernames in the quotes, and following the argument backwards. This way you can get context and understand the overall argument instead of nitpicking the latest post you saw.

Mostly sarcastic, but yeah, we do have automated ways of handling other moving violations without risking officers' lives, and if traffic stops are really that dangerous, maybe we should be limiting them to poo poo that matters, like DUI, and not "be more careful" poo poo like minor speeding/failure to signal/whatever, because I, for one, Support Are Fake Troops

# ? Aug 11, 2015 21:31

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Mostly sarcastic, but yeah, we do have automated ways of handling other moving violations without risking officers' lives, and if traffic stops are really that dangerous, maybe we should be limiting them to poo poo that matters, like DUI, and not "be more careful" poo poo like minor speeding/failure to signal/whatever, because I, for one, Support Are Fake Troops

Sounds like perp speak.

# ? Aug 11, 2015 21:33

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# ? Aug 11, 2015 21:34

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