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Yeah, ppd's analysis wasn't very unusual. I'm just surprised he didn't gloat over all the techies first phase bans
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Aug 12, 2015 02:21
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JollyPubJerk posted:aa was a good pick because it shits on dk wyvern clok because they are immobile easy to hit targets every teamfight what on earth did he say He said that he felt comfortable enough on the hero from his pubs, seemed like a strong matchup, and his teammates had his back on this pick.
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Aug 12, 2015 02:35
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gigawhite posted:Yeah, ppd's analysis wasn't very unusual. I'm just surprised he didn't gloat over all the techies first phase bans He never really gloats or anything in his draft analysis videos, or his tournament vlogs either.
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Aug 12, 2015 02:53
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Magic damage amp from Ice Vortex for Storm Earthshaker and Gyro is ridiculous
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Aug 12, 2015 02:56
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i was informed that ppd was more salt than man and this video does NOT deliver
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Aug 12, 2015 02:59
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He won TI, even a salt elemental like can't be salty about that
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Aug 12, 2015 03:06
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I don't know why people kept ragging on CDEC for first phase banning Techies every game when they most likely has 0 experience playing against the hero in a competitive environment prior to TI
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Aug 12, 2015 03:30
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gigawhite posted:Yeah, ppd's analysis wasn't very unusual. I'm just surprised he didn't gloat over all the techies first phase bans I think he was like "We practiced a lot with CDEC, because we didn't know how well they were going to do till after groups. They're a drat good team" Or something like that Im guessing they were traumatized in practice by techies. steakmancer posted:I don't know why people kept ragging on CDEC for first phase banning Techies every game when they most likely has 0 experience playing against the hero in a competitive environment prior to TI Techies would have hosed them so hard. All their smoke roams would have been shut down by horrible mine traps killing half of them.
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Aug 12, 2015 03:33
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Kinda interesting how EG and CDEC were scrim partners though, they probably had played techies in scrims at least a couple of times.
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Aug 12, 2015 03:34
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One thing I noticed is that ppd expected Leshrac to be mid but there was a stat during the game that the mid player hardly played Leshrac and EG bans tend to be team specific. I guess they just didn't look too hard at CDEC before with them being a wildcard team and it just didn't come up in practice games.steakmancer posted:I don't know why people kept ragging on CDEC for first phase banning Techies every game when they most likely has 0 experience playing against the hero in a competitive environment prior to TI
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Aug 12, 2015 03:42
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shiki played lesh in that set so its more likely EG gave it to them in scrims and assumed he would play it. they tried to switch up the obvious bait and it didn't work out
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Aug 12, 2015 03:47
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steakmancer posted:I don't know why people kept ragging on CDEC for first phase banning Techies every game when they most likely has 0 experience playing against the hero in a competitive environment prior to TI It's more that PPD is not going to give up a good Sumail hero or a good Fear hero for Techies, especialy if he only had the first pick. Techies wouldn't be worth the Gyrocopter and Tusk getting through on the other side. As much as CDEC was determined to always ban Techies, EG was as determined to always ban out Bounty Hunter. That's because track gold has ridiculous interaction with CDEC's playing style and it's also one of the only heroes Garder is really good at, so there's a lot of value in banning that out every single opportunity. The team that gets the 2nd/3rd picks also gets the last ban, so if EG spends their second ban on Tusk then it makes sense for CDEC to spend their last ban on Techies. I think CDEC's real problem was overestimating certain heroes in the hands of EG players, and underestimating others. They beat the Naga in game 2 the night before, but they had Tusk. I think there's snowball combos that counter mines but it seems nobody in China has bothered to investigate them yet. But the real problem is that they overestimated the strength of Sumail Lesh and underestimated the strength of Sumail Anything Else. Yes, Lesh can farm like gently caress; which is part of why CDEC had no idea what to do with him at first, his strengths at farming large mobs is useless to a team that can't bother to CS because they'd rather be doing hero and tower damage. But Sumail gets poo poo-tons of farm on Ember and Storm too, and EG is all around too good of a team that you can't just ban out Sumail like teams do Bulldog. CDEC's best strategy would be to realize that Sumail is going to get a really high GPM on whatever he's playing anyway, that's what happens when you're the west's best at Bullshit Storm Spirit and Bullshit Ember Spirit. Leshrac wasn't really a harmless threat, but it wasn't that much more harmful than that guy getting any of his comfort heroes; and you can't ban them all out or else the rest of the team will demolish you. Radical posted:shiki played lesh in that set so its more likely EG gave it to them in scrims and assumed he would play it. they tried to switch up the obvious bait and it didn't work out I figured Bulba probably loaded up Dotabuff and noticed the other team's mid player had almost no games on the most imbalanced hero for their position and told PPD to leave them scared of either handing it over or taking it and putting on a 2K clown performance with it. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 04:02
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I don't get how a pro team can't play Naga.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:03
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davecrazy posted:I don't get how a pro team can't play Naga. Another big issue for CDEC is it just didn't fit their play style, and EG has loads of experience with and against Naga.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:08
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the alpaca posted:so the reason he went with a sumail influenced AA yolo pick over a comfort lion pick in the final draft is because of the AA + ES ult combo? i'm not a very good dota2 player and i don't think he explained that part. He explained that he went with it because it's a really good pick and because the team thought it would fit well, but they never scrim with it and he doesn't practice the hero that much, so it's a yolo in the sense that they don't have professional practice with it, not because it's a bad pick
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Aug 12, 2015 04:09
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davecrazy posted:I don't get how a pro team can't play Naga. Happens when your dedicated Naga player is graduated up to bigger brother LGD five months ago. Maybe's Naga used to be able to carry CDEC even when they had a much worse offlaner who used to cost them games. He was like the Chinese Meracle for a bit there. One amazing Naga fighting against the feed of four schmucks.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:10
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i really like EG and PPD but lol "we felt we were cheesed game 2 by the brood pick" --guy that drafts techies
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Aug 12, 2015 04:12
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Maybe isn't even the kind of Naga player they need anyways. The Chinese teams just seem to completely undervalue support Naga in general even though they're constantly forced to ban it out against Western teams
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Aug 12, 2015 04:15
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Craptacular! posted:It's more that PPD is not going to give up a good Sumail hero or a good Fear hero for Techies, especialy if he only had the first pick. Techies wouldn't be worth the Gyrocopter and Tusk getting through on the other side. He said in his drafts video that he was prepared to first pick techies every game, that's how unprepared CDEC were for it I also like the idea that ppd never wanted to ban Lesh because of how little it had gotten through in the tournament itself
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Aug 12, 2015 04:20
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steakmancer posted:He said in his drafts video that he was prepared to first pick techies every game, that's how unprepared CDEC were for it Buying sentry wards and a gem just don't fit into CDECs meta.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:22
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VG is like the only Chinese team off the top of my head that has picked support Naga recently, which is so bizarre because of how strong it is, with crazy scouting, rune control, and multi-camp stacking illusions, a BKB piercing root and the " teamfight draw" button that is Song, which becomes the "isolate enemy carry" button when the carry picks up BKB
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Aug 12, 2015 04:26
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Craptacular! posted:It's more that PPD is not going to give up a good Sumail hero or a good Fear hero for Techies, especialy if he only had the first pick. Techies wouldn't be worth the Gyrocopter and Tusk getting through on the other side.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:29
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What stands out the most from that draft analysis is how heavily they lean on Sumail. They don't really have to worry about his pick or lane match up, because they flat out expect him to win or break even on bad match ups based purely on outskilling the opponent. That is a huge convenience to have, and lets them concentrate a lot more on ensuring they can draft good safe lane heroes so Fear is guaranteed an easy lane.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:32
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even my jaded rear end was impressed when sumail got 17 last hits by 2:50 as ember vs a ranged hero
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Aug 12, 2015 04:34
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CampingCarl posted:How would he be giving up those heroes for techies? EG doesn't always pick both Fear and Sumail heroes in the first 2 picks and techies could be picked anywhere. I thought Gyrocopter was their first pick in just about every game. I know Fear played it every game, people joked about him always being an old man.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:37
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Craptacular! posted:I thought Gyrocopter was their first pick in just about every game. I know Fear played it every game, people joked about him always being an old man.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:40
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davecrazy posted:Buying sentry wards and a gem just don't fit into CDECs meta. They don't just afk planting mines like everybody who plays the hero in pubs, you can't really apply the same kind of playstyle to it
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Aug 12, 2015 04:47
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Megasabin posted:What stands out the most from that draft analysis is how heavily they lean on Sumail. They don't really have to worry about his pick or lane match up, because they flat out expect him to win or break even on bad match ups based purely on outskilling the opponent. That is a huge convenience to have, and lets them concentrate a lot more on ensuring they can draft good safe lane heroes so Fear is guaranteed an easy lane. exactly like Secrets drafts, except s4 started losing badly and puppey/kuro were rarely in position to save him from dives since they were stacking so much
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Aug 12, 2015 04:49
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Megasabin posted:What stands out the most from that draft analysis is how heavily they lean on Sumail. They don't really have to worry about his pick or lane match up, because they flat out expect him to win or break even on bad match ups based purely on outskilling the opponent. That is a huge convenience to have, and lets them concentrate a lot more on ensuring they can draft good safe lane heroes so Fear is guaranteed an easy lane. PPD really downplayed it in that drafting review. It's true though, lots of times they do leave him alone and intentionally don't rotate. They only seem to pay heavy attention to mid when it could actually go bad. Khorne fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 04:51
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Craptacular! posted:It's more that PPD is not going to give up a good Sumail hero or a good Fear hero for Techies, especialy if he only had the first pick. Techies wouldn't be worth the Gyrocopter and Tusk getting through on the other side. yes it would be, the other team had literally no experience playing against it lol.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:52
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CampingCarl posted:It was, but how does that make CDEC banning techies bad? I actually said it was equivelant to EG banning Bounty Hunter in every game, and thus it wasn't bad. I just said in an better world where Chinese teams bothered to care about it, it wouldn't have to be banned out all the time. I also thought a first phase pick seemed really unlikely, but I haven't yet listened to this video people are talking about.
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Aug 12, 2015 05:06
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Tweak posted:i really like EG and PPD but lol I'm not sure how having your own cheese strats means you can't also be cheesed?
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Aug 12, 2015 05:13
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Megasabin posted:What stands out the most from that draft analysis is how heavily they lean on Sumail. They don't really have to worry about his pick or lane match up, because they flat out expect him to win or break even on bad match ups based purely on outskilling the opponent. That is a huge convenience to have, and lets them concentrate a lot more on ensuring they can draft good safe lane heroes so Fear is guaranteed an easy lane. Craptacular! posted:I actually said it was equivelant to EG banning Bounty Hunter in every game, and thus it wasn't bad.
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Aug 12, 2015 05:18
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I think what he meant by they felt like they got cheesed is that they didn't feel like their strategy was overall bad or that they got out skilled or out played, so if they could avoid falling into the trap they wouldn't need to vastly alter their strategy or play
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Aug 12, 2015 05:18
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CampingCarl posted:You (...) a techies ban wasn't bad if EG banned tusk. Ah. I deleted part of my post that went into theories of how a snowball combo (with Omniknight ult, I think) can counter a mined-up defense in a fight, but I deleted the whole thing because I get in trouble around here anytime I theorize game mechanics for a game I don't actually play.
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Aug 12, 2015 05:29
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every brood pick is an outdraft 'cheese' just means he hates having to deal with the hero once they started banning tusk they were fine. cdec was being silly fping pl and ignoring gyro then picking their visage naga counter into a gyro, which shits all over visage because dota mechanics is weird. cdec last banning poo poo like cm and not aa when they go for healer/dk lineup is also pretty silly. cdec is a good team, but they were one dimensional the whole tournament with tusk/bh almost every game and once they couldnt take either they looked out of place. that echoslam was just the denouement of them looking completely lost if they don't succeed in getting ganks 4 mins in. tusk/bh make those kills super easy, but the other heroes they tried to run instead lacked the punch.
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Aug 12, 2015 05:29
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Craptacular! posted:Ah. I deleted part of my post that went into theories of how a snowball combo (with Omniknight ult, I think) can counter a mined-up defense in a fight, but I deleted the whole thing because I get in trouble around here anytime I theorize game mechanics for a game I don't actually play.
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Aug 12, 2015 05:39
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Tweak posted:i really like EG and PPD but lol Techies are first pick according to semi-professional S4.
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Aug 12, 2015 08:47
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So on Toffee's show he's said that ESPN was in charge of production, not Valve. I guess this explains why the show felt a bit more slick then last year. Though I agree they should have shown more of Hotbid and Kaci's pre-recorded interviews during down times.
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Aug 12, 2015 09:16
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Is there a date for whenever the next tournament with real teams will take place? Makes me sad looking at JoinDOTA and all the "Upcoming Matches" are teams I don't think anyone's ever heard of.
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Aug 12, 2015 13:01
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