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Sleeveless posted:They turn on Booker because their universe's Booker had been publicly killed and so they thought he was an impersonator trying to slander the older Booker's name. It's part of an unskippable dialogue with Daisy Fitzroy that ends with the Vox Populi turning hostile on you, I don't know how anybody could miss it. i think that was what daisy sold the vox dudes on, but thats not really what she believed. she just thought booker coming back was inconvenient to the martyr narrative. source: i just played this game like a week ago
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Aug 10, 2015 00:27
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I just finished Pillars of Eternity. Which is a pretty good game that actually deserves its praise! But the ending unravels a bit, and not in the usual Obsidian 'we ran out of money so had to cut the third act' way. It's more in ways that just struck me as a bit weird, especially given how open and considerate the rest of the game had been. To get into the final dungeon, you need to pledge support to a god, which annoyed me a tad but I was okay with it... except for the fact that out of the twelve-ish gods in the game's lore, you only get to appeal to five, and none of those five are the gods you've actually been most familiar with over the course of the game, most of them having next to no presence before this point. It's fair enough that you can't ally with the two biggest ones in the story--Eothas is dead and Woedica's supporting the villain--but you can't get support from Magran, Abydon or Skaen, who you've had much more opportunity to learn about through meeting their followers, for no real reason. And the ending gets a little wonky if you neglected one of your party members. I cycled Aloth, the wizard, out of my party early on because my Watcher was a wizard, and his party member quest was pretty easy to wrap up in the Sanitarium. This apparently isn't what they expected, though, because apparently if you do that then you miss some MAJOR character developments that the game just assumes you've heard. So his epilogue blindsided me quite considerably.
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Aug 10, 2015 01:34
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Yeah the character-specific endings really lack "didn't do the quest" or "character died" outcomes. Grieving Mother is the worst one for that because her quest has one happy ending and one unhappy ending, and you get the happy ending if you never do her quest.
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Aug 10, 2015 01:37
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GIANT OUIJA BOARD posted:And in addition to the RNG problem with loot drops (farming for poo poo that has a 5% drop rate is an absolute chore sometimes, though quests usually have the possibility of giving you these), there's the problem that if you just see "velvety hide" as part of a recipe for instance, you really have no way of knowing that it's dropped by leech monsters. Ditto for things like "monster broth" and "pale fluid." If the books about the monsters told you what they drop, that would be a huge plus. If you've gotten far enough to need Monster Broth, then you know that monsters drop high rank versions of the poo poo they dropped before, and these high rank ingredients share the icon of the low rank poo poo. The only reason you wouldn't be able to guess is if you hadn't seen Monster Fluid before, which is highly unlikely. As for Velvety Hide: every monster carve corresponds in color to the monster that drops it. This should be pretty clear by the time the player reaches Rank 4 quests. Velvety Hide has a white icon, so players can easily hazard a guess. Oh, and the first thing you need Pale Extract for is Gigginox Armor, so you're right, good luck cracking that code.
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Aug 10, 2015 04:02
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The Vox Populi is idiotic "truth in the middle" poo poo because it goes from a justifiably violent revolution to a savage dark-skinned negress literally smearing blood on her face as she prepares to murder an innocent white child. Daisy Fitzroy and the Vox are given basically no screentime or opportunity to develop because Infinite needs to shove its Disney princess and quantum gibberish in your face some more. Its complete garbage that really has no defense.
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Aug 10, 2015 04:15
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1stGear posted:The Vox Populi is idiotic "truth in the middle" poo poo because it goes from a justifiably violent revolution to a savage dark-skinned negress literally smearing blood on her face as she prepares to murder an innocent white child. Daisy Fitzroy and the Vox are given basically no screentime or opportunity to develop because Infinite needs to shove its Disney princess and quantum gibberish in your face some more. Its complete garbage that really has no defense. It also has every single member of the Vox simultaneously turn on you as though Fitzroy used some fearsome Socialist Voodoo right after that "you just ruin the narrative" phone call. Terrible execution in every regard.
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Aug 10, 2015 04:18
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Inspector Gesicht posted:If I directed Bioshock Infinite I would put in a game-mechanic whereby the more random snacks you eat, the fatter you become. You'll run slower, you'll jump lower, and your fingers would become too fat to operate any handguns. There's a sonic romhack that does that, based on how many onion rings you eat.
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Aug 10, 2015 05:04
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Cleretic posted:
Uh, yes, you can? Magran and Abydon are chilling with Galawain, and Skaen is freezing with Rymrgand. I mean, not directly, no, but you do get to do that.
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Aug 10, 2015 05:22
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Luisfe posted:Uh, yes, you can? Oh. The game doesn't make that clear AT ALL. I went with Hylea because I wanted something close to a god of knowledge, and with Abydon apparently unavailable and Wael's altar unresponsive, the god with 'invention' somewhere in her description was the best option. The god of hunting was the one I was least likely to look into, really. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 05:42 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 05:40
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Cleretic posted:To get into the final dungeon, you need to pledge support to a god, which annoyed me a tad but I was okay with it... except for the fact that out of the twelve-ish gods in the game's lore, you only get to appeal to five, and none of those five are the gods you've actually been most familiar with over the course of the game, most of them having next to no presence before this point. It's fair enough that you can't ally with the two biggest ones in the story--Eothas is dead and Woedica's supporting the villain--but you can't get support from Magran, Abydon or Skaen, who you've had much more opportunity to learn about through meeting their followers, for no real reason. You actually do get them as a choice to support! They appear in the final dungeon before the boss fight. Abydon and Skaen I believe are all working together to try to usurp the current god being a shitlord. You even get to meet the god of Chaos where he asks you to scatter the souls to the wind and let them decide what happens rather than forcing your choice on them. I believe Magron does appear at some point as well, I remember racist old hobo healer freaking out about the visions she takes you through. edit: what Luisfe said is more accurate lol.
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Aug 10, 2015 06:02
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2house2fly posted:Yeah the character-specific endings really lack "didn't do the quest" or "character died" outcomes. Grieving Mother is the worst one for that because her quest has one happy ending and one unhappy ending, and you get the happy ending if you never do her quest. That actually sounds neat, like the best thing is let sleeping dogs lie and not dig up the past. The player solving everyones problems and leading to happy endings isnt always the most desirable endings. The original fallout tried doing that, and it got shot down in the end though. Originally in Junktown, helping Killian and stopping gizmo (the 'good' choice) led to his somewhat straightforward and simple interpertation of the law to drive off most of the business and make people give the town a wide berth. Helping gizmo lead to him largely not giving a gently caress about the town and it turning into a thriving oasis. It got flipped in the end because some people thought a 'bad' ending for a 'good' choice was an awful idea.
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Aug 10, 2015 07:09
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Most of the endings are pretty depressing when you try to help everybody. I did most if not all the things in a helpful way and only for two character did that turn out okay, one was fairly meh and the rest made everything actively worse.
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Aug 10, 2015 07:44
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Tunicate posted:There's a sonic romhack that does that, based on how many onion rings you eat. There sure is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbExKD3UxxI
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Aug 10, 2015 07:52
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Morglon posted:Most of the endings are pretty depressing when you try to help everybody. I did most if not all the things in a helpful way and only for two character did that turn out okay, one was fairly meh and the rest made everything actively worse. In PoE, mine generally turned out pretty well by my definition, except for the places where poo poo got hilariously dark for little to no reason. The Lord of the Gilded Vale coming back as a revenant was so out of left field that I couldn't help but laugh, and because I went against what Hylea wanted (largely due to misunderstanding the options, I thought I did pick the option that pleased her) I apparently created a Birdemic. The Knights of the Crucible I supported apparently got pretty corrupt later, but they did pretty well in maintaining order via Robocops before that penny dropped, so I'm counting that as a victory.
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Aug 10, 2015 07:54
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I feel like the duels in Call of Juarez: Gunslinger were cool, but they had a little bit too much going on at once to really work. I might just be bad at gunfighting though.Morglon posted:Most of the endings are pretty depressing when you try to help everybody. I did most if not all the things in a helpful way and only for two character did that turn out okay, one was fairly meh and the rest made everything actively worse.
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Aug 10, 2015 11:37
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Cleretic posted:In PoE, mine generally turned out pretty well by my definition, except for the places where poo poo got hilariously dark for little to no reason. The Lord of the Gilded Vale coming back as a revenant was so out of left field that I couldn't help but laugh Actually, there's a sidequest to stop this. It's hard to notice and a lot of people overlooked it, but it's there.
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Aug 10, 2015 11:51
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Yeah you kill him again and the town still goes to poo poo.
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Aug 10, 2015 12:00
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1stGear posted:The Vox Populi is idiotic "truth in the middle" poo poo because it goes from a justifiably violent revolution to a savage dark-skinned negress literally smearing blood on her face as she prepares to murder an innocent white child. The most hilarious thing is that even as terrible as that is, Ken lacked the authorial integrity to avoid retconning it in the DLC, such that You discover through a vent crawl exposition dump the twins demanded Fitzroy try to kill a child in front of Elizabeth to make her killer enough to put an end to Comstock.
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Aug 10, 2015 14:52
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Cleretic posted:Oh. The game doesn't make that clear AT ALL. Also, Wael IS available... but in the last map. And he requires you to betray/trick you chosen deity. Not in the Council. He is kind of a dick, I guess.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:04
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Curdy Lemonstan posted:System shock 2 > all of your stupid 'shocks so play that and never waste your breath again on the lovely watered down bioFucks. SS2 is quite overrated and has the single dumbest ending I have ever seen in a video-game. It still baffles me that nobody ever brings it up when that game is mentioned which makes me suspect that quite a few people(particularly those who claim its the best thing ever) never bothered to actually finish the game. spectres of autism posted:i think that was what daisy sold the vox dudes on, but thats not really what she believed. she just thought booker coming back was inconvenient to the martyr narrative. Your right, and in any event you see a bunch of populi before they turn being all 'Holy poo poo, Booker Dewitt! This is so awesome! Its an honour to fight alongside you, I thought you were dead' then they all flip around and desperately try to kill you on Fitzroy's demand with no dissent, its so badly done. khwarezm has a new favorite as of 15:55 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 15:48
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EmmyOk posted:2 has the worst story and the majority of the gameplay i.e. protecting little sisters which was the worst part of the first bioshock. Then regardless of killing or saving a little sister a big sister might attack you, it was very bad. If you didn't play the DLC to 2 aka Minerva's Den you missed the gently caress out dude.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:52
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khwarezm posted:SS2 is quite overatted and has the single dumbest ending I have ever seen in a video-game. It still baffles me that nobody ever brings it up when that game is mentioned which makes me suspect that quite a few people(particularly those who claim its the best thing ever) never bothered to actually finish the game. Personally I find the actual ending absolutely hilarious but the last third of the game kind of sucks as a whole. The first two thirds are absolutely incredible though, so it's still up there with the best things ever.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:52
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I've seen it brought up a lot. I enjoyed aspects of the last part of the game, especially the upside down ship with the inverted church, that felt very Ken Levine, and the body of the many was effectively creepy (if godawful to explore). That ending though, it fucks up the tone and gravitas so much that I can't play the game now without thinking 'Thats where this is all going to end up', it even has a crappy cliffhanger that won't ever get resolved to cap it all off. Its kind of incredible. I'd probably also complain about the ending being way to quick but honestly it'd likely get much worse if it went on any longer if the quality of the rest of it is any indicator.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:59
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Wasn't there some sort of gently caress up where the proper ending got lost and what we ended up with was outsourced or something? Or am I thinking of a different game? Edit: http://irrationalgames.com/insider/what-might-have-been/ Mokinokaro has a new favorite as of 16:53 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 16:47
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SpookyLizard posted:That actually sounds neat, like the best thing is let sleeping dogs lie and not dig up the past. The player solving everyones problems and leading to happy endings isnt always the most desirable endings. The original fallout tried doing that, and it got shot down in the end though. Alpha Protocol did this a lot too, it seems to be one of Obsidian's things to pull a "gotcha" on you when you have to make a choice. in Rome you have the choice of stopping a false flag bombing meant to generate busineas for Not Haliburton in exchange for a civilian dying, or save the woman but have the bombing succeed. However, if the woman dies it winds up generating so much outrage that it prompts the exact military response that Not Haliburton wanted, while if you save her she diffuses the tensions surrounding the bombing so even though it happens nobody goes to war over it. Same with Taiwan, where if you prove that the Prime Minister is going to be assassinated he refuses to do anything about it because he won't let terrorists bully him. It's only if you choose the other option and prove that there is a terrorist attaxk that he will take actions to protect himself.
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Aug 10, 2015 18:00
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Sleeveless posted:Alpha Protocol did this a lot too, it seems to be one of Obsidian's things to pull a "gotcha" on you when you have to make a choice. in Rome you have the choice of stopping a false flag bombing meant to generate busineas for Not Haliburton in exchange for a civilian dying, or save the woman but have the bombing succeed. However, if the woman dies it winds up generating so much outrage that it prompts the exact military response that Not Haliburton wanted, while if you save her she diffuses the tensions surrounding the bombing so even though it happens nobody goes to war over it. The scenario writer for that part of the game is on record saying that this bullshit only happened because he was replaced on the project a ways in and his replacement thought that the obvious solution (letting the girl die to prevent the consequences of the bombing) was "too mean" and swapped the outcomes. Alpha Protocol did some interesting things but it's a loving mess.
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Aug 10, 2015 18:14
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The best part is that saving the girl makes her hate you for letting a bunch of people die and blames herself partially for it.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:47
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That's cool imo and a similar thing happens elsewhere in the game. In Taipei they want to assassinate the pro-independence president to make him a martyr, strengthening the independence movement and heightening tensions with China. If he dies the independence movement ends up losing steam while if he lives he ramps up his pro-independence posturing. I like it because the villain is trying to predict and control people's reactions on a global scale, and things turning out different from how you'd expect shows what a bad idea that is. Plus it's a cheeky counter to the whole point of the game being to predict and control people's reactions to you.
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Aug 11, 2015 04:27
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I know that the RotT remake tries to stick as close to the original as possible, but did it have to keep the instant death homing missiles shot by NME? Health seems scarce enough as it is in the fight, but there's no reason to have it at all when the boss can fire a "gently caress You" missile that chases you.
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Aug 12, 2015 03:03
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I haven't ever finished Alpha Protocol but I wish more games would do stuff like that honestly. I hate games where you just choose the good thing all the time until you get the good ending. I wish sometimes in games they would throw a curve where you try to do the right thing and it blows up in your face. It seems like even in games where they try to do that they always give you something extra you do as an out to make it good anyway.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:40
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Things like that come off way less as a "gotcha" when it's divorced from the good/evil thing I think. Like in Fallout if you frame Killian as Good and Gizmo as bad then Junk town thriving under Gizmo comes out of nowhere, but if it's choosing between a zealous lawman and a sleazy guy with a lucrative business it makes a lot more sense. With Alpha Protocol the one where you save the girl has a contrived consequence but the one where you don't save her felt like something that could organically happen (new security measures are signed into law and the act is named after her  ) so it doesn't feel like the game is just being mean.
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Aug 12, 2015 05:08
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I'm playing Xenoblade Chronicles for the first time. There's a lot of little things I like about it to make the whole RPG process fairly streamlined, though that's a thing for another thread. What's completely bizarre, however, is the items sorting system. Where Xenoblade does a lot of things to remedy what I don't care for in most RPGs these days, they totally drop the ball on item sorting. This is a game where you are picking up hundreds of items. You're basically flooded with items at all times. I very rarely buy items from shops because I'm so self sufficient with what I'm picking up. ...but for some reason you can't sort your items alphabetically. You can sort them by when you picked them up, how much they sell for, and in some instances even what loving color they are, but somehow this game made it through the entirety of development without getting an A-Z sorting functionality. It's not a huge problem, I guess, but it's something I really wish I had access to and it bothers me whenever I open my inventory.
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Aug 12, 2015 05:21
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:I haven't ever finished Alpha Protocol but I wish more games would do stuff like that honestly. I hate games where you just choose the good thing all the time until you get the good ending. I wish sometimes in games they would throw a curve where you try to do the right thing and it blows up in your face. It seems like even in games where they try to do that they always give you something extra you do as an out to make it good anyway. It's one of those things that's interesting in theory but in practice it almost always gets a lot of backlash because gamers take it super personally and outright resent the game for "lying" to them. Like Tenpenny Tower from Fallout 3.
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Aug 12, 2015 05:24
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That's because the most outspoken people in gaming are autistic and cannot handle nuance or anything more than a spreadsheet. It's also a power complex thing. They want to believe that their actions are correct no matter what and they will always get to the goal. Personally, I adored Alpha Protocol. Because the story was not black and white I was way more invested in the dialogue and making choices that I hoped would lead me in interesting directions. Having a situation go tits-up for reasons that are beyond my control and then getting to find creative solutions is why I will never stop playing games like D&D.
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Aug 12, 2015 05:40
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Sleeveless posted:It's one of those things that's interesting in theory but in practice it almost always gets a lot of backlash because gamers take it super personally and outright resent the game for "lying" to them. Like Tenpenny Tower from Fallout 3. Or when people that were surprised when taking the confirmed bachelor perk in New Vegas made you gay.
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Aug 12, 2015 06:15
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The best outcome for Tenpenny Tower is actually to not do it at all, which doesn't really seem like a win design-wise.
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Aug 12, 2015 06:38
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StandardVC10 posted:The best outcome for Tenpenny Tower is actually to not do it at all, which doesn't really seem like a win design-wise. I dunno sometimes both side of a conflict are just assholes. If it was the main storyline pulling that poo poo I'd agree with you, but as an optional sidequest I found it to be a refreshing change of pace. I also totally sided with the ghouls to get the mask I needed for my sweet Freddy Krugar costume.
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Aug 12, 2015 07:15
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It's a lot like the people who frequently talk about how they hate how movies and TV shows always spell things out for people and never just let something be implied and unsaid. But as soon as that actually happens in a movie, they can't follow it and then bitch about it being obtuse and what not. Also, I think what might be my favorite bit of Alpha Protocol might be that in the end game, you get to talk to the guy who made the plan of trying to subtly manipulate world events, and depending on what you've done, you can point to him not just how his plan is failed, but how you've subverted his plan, and the best part is that as you list each item he respects you more and more. To keep on topic, you later get to fight a helicopter, which has just as much health as you can find missile launchers, so missing requires you to spray it with A LOT of small arms fire, and it can always see you, even if you're using the highest level of stealth abilities, including the one that allows you to run around invisible, throat punching people for like 30 seconds, which is complete poo poo. PS, Bobbin Threadbare did a fantastic LP of alpha protocol, that shows off a lot of the neat different choices with two dramatically different play styles. I highly recommend it if you wanna see the good of the game shown off well. It's on the archive, I'd throw a link out but I'm mobile posting. But you should actually play the game, it's fantastic and not actually that buggy in my experience.
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Aug 12, 2015 07:27
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StandardVC10 posted:The best outcome for Tenpenny Tower is actually to not do it at all, which doesn't really seem like a win design-wise. That's pretty much the same as telling to ghouls to gently caress off though. I actually really enjoyed the Tenpenny tower quest. I was pissed when I let the the ghouls in and they inevitably murder everyone (so pissed that I murdered all the ghouls too). But it felt like a genuine moment you know? Not everything in life turns out happy and as you want it too. Sometimes you end up doing the wrong thing despite your best intentions.
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Aug 12, 2015 07:57
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Lagomorphic posted:I also totally sided with the ghouls to get the mask I needed for my sweet Freddy Krugar costume. A completely understandable reason.
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Aug 12, 2015 08:32
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