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Selling Return of the Infidel is going to be easier than you think. Remember. You have the entire republican base who wants to go back. So now it's a matter of getting a majority of democrats on board. If ISIS is gassing people like the rumor mill is stating that will go a long way. And it's only a matter of time before one of their Facebook fans succeeds in taking out a shopping mall. It's a bad idea. But it's not hard to convince the American public otherwise.
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Aug 15, 2015 20:50
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EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:photos from china giving me blue balls for nuclear war Pretty sure that building is the port traffic police detachment. It was located between the chemical storage and that lot full of hosed-up cars. 
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Aug 15, 2015 21:24
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Lake of Methane posted:Pretty sure that building was the port traffic police detachment. It was located between the chemical storage and that lot full of hosed-up cars. ftfy
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Aug 15, 2015 21:30
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Godholio posted:I happen to think we're gonna go back even if Hillary wins. We didn't have a loving reason in 2003, you idiot. All it takes is a stiff breeze in the right direction for America's raging war boner to rise, and it doesn't necessarily take facts to set it in motion. In another year or two all it'll take is for ISIS to tweet that gay marriage is for fags and suddenly we're airdropping morons in the middle of nowhere again. I dunno, the American war boner was raging after 9/11, but the same definitely can't be said now. People who came of age during the Bush administration (those in the 25-40 demographic) are generally staunchly against sending in ground troops and are so used to the boogey man of islamic terrorism that the old tried and true scare tactic has lost a lot of its sway. Yeah, old people are still terrified of ISIS Mexicans bringing Ebola across the border, but we're lacking the near-unanimous support in the general electorate and congress that psydude fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 21:32
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Hair Is Spiders posted:Selling Return of the Infidel is going to be easier than you think. I think there's a large and growing portion of the Republican base that is turning more isolationist. Some of that is war-weariness, and some of it is the popularity of Rand Paul et al, who has broader appeal than his old man.
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Aug 15, 2015 21:53
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Donald loving Trump is the frontrunner. Tell me more about conservatives tilting moderate.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:04
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Godholio posted:Donald loving Trump is the frontrunner. Tell me more about conservatives tilting moderate. Donald Trump is actually a moderate social liberal who can't help but say crazy rear end poo poo to get attention? Like, does anybody still think that he believes any of the poo poo he is saying? It's just classic Trump. He's only a Republican because he knows which base is easier to rile up, and he's only a 'conservative' due to the fact that he pretty much invented "gently caress you, got mine."
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Aug 15, 2015 22:08
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People keep saying he's a moderate liberal, but somehow I can't see it. He's hardcore pro-business even though he's awful at it, he's an open racist, and he's a player in opening the pay gap. I'll admit I don't really follow him in depth so maybe he's managing to hide his pro-welfare/pro-choice/tolerant side from me.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:20
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well he is good at hiding his policy from everyone http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm and openly racist isn't an exclusive thing to the gop
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Aug 15, 2015 22:40
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Third World Reggin posted:and openly racist isn't an exclusive thing to the gop True, but they've kind of made it a key plank in their platform recently.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:49
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Godholio posted:Donald loving Trump is the frontrunner. Tell me more about conservatives tilting moderate. It is also 6-7 months before primaries. Polls really are meaningless right now. You have a lot of angry anti-establishment fist shaking right now. When people actually go to vote, they will fall back on the same people they always vote for. Jeb might as well just sit on his hands at this point and wait until December to really care about numbers and appeal. Sadly the same goes for Clinton, unless Biden hops in. The best thing for the republican party would be having Trump as the nomination because he is a moderate despite the daily insanity soundbite. Jeb sounds like an idiot, Trump sounds like a Big Brother contestant. And thats the best the republicans have to offer. If you really pay attention to Rubio and the rest it gets pretty  . Especially when they start talking about women's/equal rights. Which along with wealth distribution will be the biggest issues when the actual presidential election goes down.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:51
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psydude posted:True, but they've kind of made it a key plank in their platform recently. I'd disagree with that. The DNC is really good at pretending to give a poo poo about minorities, making GBS threads all over minorities who don't buy into it, and then not actually doing anything for minorities. Ditto "War on Women." The most overly misogynistic encounters I've had have been with self-professed progressives. I mean, for gently caress's sake, Clinton was a walking EEO/Hostile Workplace complaint, and Ted Kennedy loving killed a woman.
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Aug 15, 2015 22:58
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lol if you think either party cares about anyone other than their donors
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Aug 15, 2015 23:01
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ActusRhesus posted:Ted Kennedy loving killed a woman. Grown woman should have known better than to go swimming after too many drinks.
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Aug 15, 2015 23:05
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Whip Slagcheek posted:lol if you think individuals within either party care about anyone even donors are expendable.
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Aug 15, 2015 23:05
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just saying the aryan nation exists in some pretty democratic areas
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Aug 15, 2015 23:06
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Godholio posted:Donald loving Trump is the frontrunner. Tell me more about conservatives tilting moderate. The Republican field is filled with serious candidates a sane* conservative might vote for, plus Donald Trump. The effect of this is that dozen or so conventional politicians split the sane vote and Trump snaps up every single one of the birthers, who compose perhaps a quarter of the base, and some extra on top based purely on name recognition. How do you think Ron Paul got such great numbers in straw polls ahead of the primaries in 2011?
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Aug 15, 2015 23:11
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ActusRhesus posted:The DNC is really good at pretending to give a poo poo about minorities, making GBS threads all over minorities who don't buy into it, and then not actually doing anything for minorities. 
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Aug 15, 2015 23:20
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Two Army Golden Knights parachutists hosed themselves up during the Air and Water Show here in Chicago. One remains critical. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-air-water-parachutists-20150815-story.html
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Aug 15, 2015 23:33
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psydude posted:There's still people who think we found WMDs in Iraq. Like, not some leftover chemical weapons, but actual brand-spanking new nuclear components ready to be assembled. The recently retired former Chief of Staff of the US Army is very close to being among those people psydude posted:I dunno, the American war boner was raging after 9/11, but the same definitely can't be said now. People who came of age during the Bush administration (those in the 25-40 demographic) are generally staunchly against sending in ground troops and are so used to the boogey man of islamic terrorism that the old tried and true scare tactic has lost a lot of its sway. Yeah, old people are still terrified of ISIS Mexicans bringing Ebola across the border, but we're lacking the near-unanimous support in the general electorate and congress that Yeah, barring a significant homeland attack that can be traced back to ISIS (something that I think is pretty unlikely for a whole bunch of reasons), we aren't going to be sending in anything close to large amounts of ground troops. Continuing to deploy 4-5k "advisers" at a time and continuing the air war that is costing around $8M a day? That will go on from now until the end of time, regardless of which party has control of the WH. And it will continue to accomplish absolutely nothing besides turning American dollars into dust, exhaust, and the occasional dead person.
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Aug 15, 2015 23:35
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iyaayas01 posted:The recently retired former Chief of Staff of the US Army is very close to being among those people I think it's going to be more like Vietnam, but on a shorter timescale because of the modern news cycle. A gradual ramping up as we keep getting soundbytes like we have been, about how our current efforts are ineffective, Americans are being raped and beheaded and burned alive, etc.
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Aug 16, 2015 00:23
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What's a good, non-stupid country that's unlikely to slowly bleed itself dry in anther Iraq. The Netherlands? Denmark? Germany? Maybe I'll move there. Bonus points for having a public education and health system that functions.
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Aug 16, 2015 00:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeUYE1XNO5E&t=31s
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Aug 16, 2015 00:32
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psydude posted:What's a good, non-stupid country that's unlikely to slowly bleed itself dry in anther Iraq. The Netherlands? Denmark? Germany? Maybe I'll move there. Bonus points for having a public education and health system that functions. new zealand our healthcare owns and we have sweet beaches everywhere
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Aug 16, 2015 00:46
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We're under a Neolib who's barking for engagement with ISIS, though. So we'll see how long that lasts.
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Aug 16, 2015 01:21
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Godholio posted:I think it's going to be more like Vietnam, but on a shorter timescale because of the modern news cycle. A gradual ramping up as we keep getting soundbytes like we have been, about how our current efforts are ineffective, Americans are being raped and beheaded and burned alive, etc. If Jeb! (or a pseudo-Jeb replacement as far as foreign policy goes on the GOP side...the Cuban, Fat Man, whoever) gets elected maybe, but even then there will have to be a concerted effort by the usual suspects (Wolfie and the gang) to massage the news cycle to produce the desired effects on the populace. The current trends in that area are not promising for a significant change in public mindset...just because your fat far right wing "I did a 2 year enlistment in the '90s RESPECT MY SERVICE SUPPORT ARE TROOPS GET THAT MUSLIM KENYAN USURPER OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE" uncle is constantly posting on facebook about how ISIS is going to come and rape us all to death in Everytown USA, that doesn't mean that the broad majority of the American population could give two shits about someone (even an American aid worker or journalist) being raped or beheaded by ISIS. It's something that the average American will tut-tut about for approximately 10 seconds until the next story comes up about Bieber's latest run in with the law or some tween star's haircut or whatever. We just don't care as a country anymore (not that we ever really did.) It will require a significant shift to change this, and that's only going to be one of two things: - A significant attack with a concerted media push behind it from the Administration (i.e., Iraq after 9/11). It wouldn't need to be a 9/11-scale attack, but something quite a bit worse than lone wolf nutjobs shooting up recruiting stations. - A significant effort by the administration to up the fear factor from things like raping and beheading aid workers and journalists, combined with a drumbeat of the need to "do more than the current feckless path the Dems set us upon under Barack HUSSEIN Obama." If it's Hillary, forget it. Drones and bombing from now until the end of time, who cares how much it costs or if it's effective, it's "doing something" without risking anything from a US perspective which might as well be the motto of the liberal interventionist wing of the US foreign policy establishment. psydude posted:What's a good, non-stupid country that's unlikely to slowly bleed itself dry in anther Iraq. The Netherlands? Denmark? Germany? Maybe I'll move there. Bonus points for having a public education and health system that functions. Nordic states are probably the best bet. Sweden has the whole neutrality thing going for it and while Denmark and Norway are both NATO members they usually don't do anything other than deploy some F-16s and some special forces, maybe a couple rotations of infantry at most. Also yeah NZ would probably be a good bet, bonus points for speaking funny english as opposed to moon people languages Relevant Danish language video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk
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Aug 16, 2015 01:34
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The development of drones is possibly the worst thing that has happened to our foreign policy in post-Vietnam history. You mean there's way we can flush millions of dollars down the drain, kill people, AND not risk "are troops"? Sign me the gently caress up.
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Aug 16, 2015 01:39
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Whip Slagcheek posted:The development of drones is possibly the worst thing that has happened to our foreign policy in post-Vietnam history. You mean there's way we can flush millions of dollars down the drain, kill people, AND not risk "are troops"? Sign me the gently caress up. Was at a conference where Jeh Johnson was speaking. I mentioned I was writing my war college paper on drone strikes and due process. I asked him some questions about drone strikes on US citizens and due process. It did not go over well.
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Aug 16, 2015 01:48
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iyaayas01 posted:Nordic states are probably the best bet. Sweden has the whole neutrality thing going for it and while Denmark and Norway are both NATO members they usually don't do anything other than deploy some F-16s and some special forces, maybe a couple rotations of infantry at most.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DDuRraJbOg a dane deployed to afghanistan was twice as likely to die as an american
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Aug 16, 2015 01:58
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Whip Slagcheek posted:The development of drones is possibly the worst thing that has happened to our foreign policy in post-Vietnam history. You mean there's way we can flush millions of dollars down the drain, kill people, AND not risk "are troops"? Sign me the gently caress up. All the war, none of the press!
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Aug 16, 2015 02:04
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Two Finger posted:new zealand i heard that new zealand was where austrailia sends their uggos is it true y/n
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Aug 16, 2015 02:05
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ActusRhesus posted:Was at a conference where Jeh Johnson was speaking. lol I remember you mentioning this a while back and I laughed as hard then as I did just now. The issue with drones/RPAs isn't so much their use in larger scale "declared" conflicts (Iraq/Afghanistan/Iraq again). In fact I'd argue that their use there is a net benefit because of the advantages they bring compared to manned assets that would otherwise be performing the same or very similar missions. The issue is on the more clandestine/CT side of things, where like Whip points out they allow a much lower barrier to entry while still providing a kinetic capability. If they were ISR only I'd argue it wouldn't be nearly as bad, because the deployment of manned strike assets would drive a higher barrier to authorizing force to where they would be used more sparingly (and there would naturally be a higher level of judicial review/due process). But since the RPAs are armed, now you can rain down Hellfires whenever you feel like it in addition to providing constant ISR coverage of "suspected bad guys" in country x, and the whole thing has such an insanely low barrier to entry from a PR perspective that there's really no overt downsides* to carrying it out. Best case, you probably stop a terrorist attack (nevermind the civcas, whatever.) Worst case, there's a terrorist attack but you can point to all the CT things you were doing, so it's totally not your administration's fault, in fact this just proves that we need more of your administration's CT policy. *Minus the money spent, lack of accountability (meaning no one has any idea whether what we're doing is effective), and the whole long-term world public perception thing. Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:
Yeah sorry that shouldn't have been taken as a slam on the Danish (or Nordic in general) armed forces, I've seen Armadillo and it's pretty  I was just making the point that big-picture wise even when they (mostly the Danes, sometimes Norwegians) deploy legit infantry ground combat forces in whatever the latest American led shitshow is, it's on a small enough scale that they aren't going to bleed their country white doing it. The overall number of troops deployed and monies expended in the Danish deployments to Afghanistan was tiny (even taking their size as a nation into it) compared to the level that American expenditures rise to. e: I'm not saying move to Denmark and join the Army, I'm just saying if you move to Denmark don't expect the country to get involved in a war(s) that costs trillions of dollars. But yeah, Sweden is probably the best best in the Nordic area iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 02:15
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psydude posted:What's a good, non-stupid country that's unlikely to slowly bleed itself dry in anther Iraq. The Netherlands? Denmark? Germany? Maybe I'll move there. Bonus points for having a public education and health system that functions. I'd go with Sweden. 
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Aug 16, 2015 02:16
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Spoiler alert none of those countries are going to let some dumb American move in.
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Aug 16, 2015 02:21
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Whip Slagcheek posted:Spoiler alert none of those countries are going to let some dumb American move in. Idk I'm party way to an advanced degree, work in a critical shortage field, am under the age of 35, and make more than their minimum required income.
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Aug 16, 2015 02:32
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:i heard that new zealand was where austrailia sends their uggos Very Y.
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Aug 16, 2015 02:33
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'd go with Sweden. that way can only end in tears https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU
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Aug 16, 2015 02:35
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psydude posted:Idk I'm party way to an advanced degree, work in a critical shortage field, am under the age of 35, and make more than their minimum required income. Yeah, but since you're talking about immigrating to the beautiful socialist paradises that are Nordic countries the only important question is are you the correct sub type of white for them to let you across the border?
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Aug 16, 2015 03:02
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iyaayas01 posted:lol I remember you mentioning this a while back and I laughed as hard then as I did just now. he's a loving turd and pretty much his entire argument style amounts to: I am smarter than you. I'm right because I say I am. You just don't understand because you are my intellectual inferior  (yes I know I just described half of SA.)
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Aug 16, 2015 03:05
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ManMythLegend posted:Yeah, but since you're talking about immigrating to the beautiful socialist paradises that are Nordic countries the only important question is are you the correct sub type of white for them to let you across the border? Ginger. So basically as Scandinavian as you can possibly get.
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Aug 16, 2015 03:11
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