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Mr. Despair posted:Well, I tried it again. This time I called I. Firefighters to cause a fire on the main entrance so that no one could escape. Eventually I was arrested and the national guard called in, but there was such a back log of herses that they couldn't enter the compound. Anarchy reigned forever, a+ prison. Simply amazing. I bet the devs would smile at this type of outcome. Ultimate Shrek Fan posted:How does that work with cell grading? I'm speculating, but I think holding cells are classed as "0 quality" for prisoners, because I think they'll always be moved out of the holding cell and into a private one, no matter what kinda quality differences there might be. As for a gen-pop type thing, since all the prisoners live in the same quality cell ("average") they won't kick off for having worse living quarters than they think they deserve.
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Aug 11, 2015 21:25
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Holding cells don't get factored into cell grading at all - prisoners will always be given a cell if there's one available in their security class. They don't factor into the average either so you can have a huge luxury holding cell and a bunch of level 0 2x2 cells and all the level 0 cells will be considered "average" quality so long as you don't any anything better.
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Aug 12, 2015 03:24
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So I I have a mix of sizes and amenities of cells, prisoners will be irritable? I need to try this.
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Aug 12, 2015 15:16
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Dirk Pitt posted:So I I have a mix of sizes and amenities of cells, prisoners will be irritable? I need to try this. Prisoners in below average cells will be irritable. People who have broken the rules will be the ones in the below average cells. So you're taking people who already don't give a gently caress about your rules and making them even more dissatisfied. It's pretty great.
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Aug 12, 2015 23:12
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My good cells are taken up by the gang leaders and their second in commands. I have a feeling that's always going to be the case.
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Aug 13, 2015 07:44
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dogstile posted:My good cells are taken up by the gang leaders and their second in commands. I have a feeling that's always going to be the case. Maybe put a staff zone between the good and bad cells so they can't talk to soldiers?
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Aug 13, 2015 13:41
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BurntCornMuffin posted:Maybe put a staff zone between the good and bad cells so they can't talk to soldiers? Oh I don't mind, it actually makes it interesting (I had to cheat in the gang leaders, I think on average you need to have 700 max sec prisoners before statistically you'll get a legendary gang leader, but that's going on reddit maths). Its just the leaders never do anything bad aside from the legendary guy I placed next to one of the weaker gangs to prop them up a bit. He kinda goes in and stabs people occasionally.
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Aug 13, 2015 18:10
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Well of course they behave. Why get in trouble if you have a bunch of loyal followers willing to take the solitary time for you?
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Aug 13, 2015 19:36
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I rolled a legendary gang member on death row. He somehow murdered two armed guards in his cell and wound up locked in it firing the shotgun. I couldn't protect him from the ten guards I sent his way and they killed him after he took out 4 of them. It was awesome.
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Aug 14, 2015 07:10
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So for my latest prison I wanted a serious effort, a predominantly max security prison (one wing of minimun and no medium) that would keep the prisoners under control, relatively happy, and productive. Things were going well at first, but as I expanded to a population of about 130 it became clear that they didn't feel their needs were being met. Every day it seemed to get a worse with a few deaths being the norm. Harsh solitary times had been instituted for all offences to acquire CIs, but now about a quarter of the population would be in solitary at all times. They they would emerge from their stay in solitary even angrier, and so the cycle repeats. So I started some reforms. Punishments were drastically reduced and work hours were cut in half (as a temporary measure to give them more free time). In theory prisoners would use the free time to attend to whatever needs they might have. This did work, but not as much as I'd hoped. One of the main problems was despite the available showers and freetime those bastards seemed to prefer to remain smelly and then bitch about being smelly. So I mandated an hour for showering when prisoners woke up. Surely this would fix the problem. It was a disaster. Prisoners flocked to the showers to get clean, but they were completely unguarded. They weren't quite as unhappy as they had been a couple of days ago, but they certainly weren't in high spirits. 20 people died that day. The majority lay dead on the shower floors. The psychologist was slain while running the AA programme. A prisoner's wife was killed while visiting (by the husband or another? I don't know). My legendary prisoner bashed his way out of solitary, murdered an armed guard and got hold of a shotgun, somehow snuck through a remote door, then murdered a couple more on this way to the main entrance before thankfully getting tasered. The next day the CEO put me on notice that five more deaths in the next 24 hours would get me arrested for criminal negligence, which was pretty worrying given that 5-6 deaths were the normal number for a day. I hired a shitton of guards and had three patrolling each shower. Fortunately I made it through and things are massively improved with much happier prisoners. Two people died that day but in isolated incidents rather than mass unrest. A workman got murdered in the forestry by an ax-wielding maniac (since upgraded from max to supermax), and the newly rehired psychologist was killed on his first day, again during AA. Those alcoholics obviously have some deep seated issues. My legendary is also much happier, well relatively speaking. He's gone from constantly kicking off the moment he got released from solitary (if not before) to actually using the amenities of his luxury cell for a while and then misbehaving. It's an improvement, although just now he got put in solitary again, and then punched the lights out of the doctor that attended to his injuries. What a class act.
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Aug 14, 2015 11:26
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Well that settles it. We need to be able to "Hannibal Lecter" the really bad ones - strap them to a gurney or make them eat though a deposit box, or something like that.
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Aug 14, 2015 14:05
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I hate Armed Guards. Can't have them actually around inmates because then the inmates won't go to classes or therapy (stupid Suppression effect), so I just stick a couple in the Armory and hope that when bad poo poo happens they will decide it's worth their while to get up off their lazy asses and go help, and I seriously have no idea how they decide that or not. Also, I've been checking contraband vectors lately, and I've got two big problems. The first is that families apparently love to smuggle cell phones in during Visitation, and cell phones aren't metal so the metal detectors don't catch them. The presence of a guard posted to the room and a dog patrol constantly coming in has done nothing to deter them. And is there anything I can do about "Thrown"? Like 80% of the time when I check where some contraband came from now, it just appears somewhere outside with a Thrown marker.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:15
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meatsaw posted:Well that settles it. We need to be able to "Hannibal Lecter" the really bad ones - strap them to a gurney or make them eat though a deposit box, or something like that. Not sure if you mean it the way of permanent solitary strapped to a bed, or cooking them for food 
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Aug 14, 2015 16:15
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You can tell the armed guards to go to trouble when needed.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:17
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Felix_Cat posted:One of the main problems was despite the available showers and freetime those bastards seemed to prefer to remain smelly and then bitch about being smelly. So I mandated an hour for showering when prisoners woke up. Surely this would fix the problem.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:21
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CapnAndy posted:I hate Armed Guards. Can't have them actually around inmates because then the inmates won't go to classes or therapy (stupid Suppression effect), so I just stick a couple in the Armory and hope that when bad poo poo happens they will decide it's worth their while to get up off their lazy asses and go help, and I seriously have no idea how they decide that or not. Bad poo poo needs to happen in their immediate vicinity. You direct them otherwise. CapnAndy posted:Also, I've been checking contraband vectors lately, and I've got two big problems. The first is that families apparently love to smuggle cell phones in during Visitation, and cell phones aren't metal so the metal detectors don't catch them. The presence of a guard posted to the room and a dog patrol constantly coming in has done nothing to deter them. And is there anything I can do about "Thrown"? Like 80% of the time when I check where some contraband came from now, it just appears somewhere outside with a Thrown marker. For thrown, CIs and phone taps tell you where it's going to happen, post a guard in the vicinity to prevent it. Or, design your prison so that any outdoor space a prisoner can access is far, far away from the outer perimeter.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:21
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BurntCornMuffin posted:Bad poo poo needs to happen in their immediate vicinity. You direct them otherwise. That make things stupidly easy, makes tunnels take forever and gives you longer to find them.
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Aug 14, 2015 16:43
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CapnAndy posted:Stick a drain and shower head in every cell (even in a 2x2 you should have an empty square available). Give them free time right after they wake up and your inmates will take a shower every morning like good boys. I never ever make shower rooms, they are asking for trouble. You don't need an empty square for a showerhead.  
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Aug 14, 2015 16:54
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MisterOblivious posted:You don't need an empty square for a showerhead. That drain won't work though?
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Aug 14, 2015 18:59
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You can also place an open air shower in the yard. The prisoners don't care about the nudity and will happily shower during yard time.
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Aug 14, 2015 19:14
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Hezzy posted:That drain won't work though? Not on it's own. I tile the cells with grates.
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Aug 14, 2015 19:30
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MisterOblivious posted:Not on it's own. I tile the cells with grates. Why? Just box off the shower with grates.
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Aug 14, 2015 19:45
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Hezzy posted:Why? Just box off the shower with grates. I usually put the grate under the cell doors. Granted, the whole cell floods, but hey, this ain't a Hilton.
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Aug 14, 2015 21:27
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I'm pretty sure grates are hiding spots, so fewer is better.ShootaBoy posted:You can also place an open air shower in the yard. The prisoners don't care about the nudity and will happily shower during yard time.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:01
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CapnAndy posted:I'm pretty sure grates are hiding spots, so fewer is better. The secret is to use freetime instead of Shower/Yard time (AKA fight time). Any time there is a huge congregation of prisoners that are trying to meet all the same need at the same time is just recipe for disaster (which is why you should put showers in your canteen too)
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Aug 14, 2015 22:11
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CapnAndy posted:I can see several problems with putting the showes, where prisoners like to fight, in the yard, where prisoners like to fight. Aren't fights in showers and yard usually caused by a sudden big concentration of prisoners, often sent there at a time when they're grumpy from high needs. You can largely avoid that by simply having them less concentrated: Multiple, smaller shower rooms. Many entrances to the yards so everyone doesn't concentrate around the same spot initially. Make sure there are enough workable items in the room so prisoners entering can do useful stuff instead of standing around.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:13
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CapnAndy posted:I can see several problems with putting the showes, where prisoners like to fight, in the yard, where prisoners like to fight. That's what armed guards are for. 
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Aug 15, 2015 00:09
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Here's a solution to the shower problem:  Make the shower part of the yard, use yard time liberally such as first thing in the morning and before/after meals, etc. My yards also have all the required amenities to make prisoners happy and this way a lot of them can fulfill their needs quickly. It's kind of cheesing it but hey it works very well. All my guys are in a holding cell in that prison BTW. Never had a problem except this one time (right after the screenshot actually) where the prison went into full 300+ riot because I renovated the canteen and somehow this broke food logistics as even though it was connected to the kitchen, the meals never got to the serving tables. Let me tell you, the max sec guys sure like to beeline to the PC wing and kill the living poo poo out of them. Had to dump all the food in the kitchen to reset the logistics thingy BTW.
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Aug 15, 2015 11:25
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I just add a shower/bathroom off of each canteen or yard. Problems solved. My current prison is efficient as hell. It went nuclear when I tried to put them through the Nutritional Research Grant. Prisoners don't like eating one tiny meal over 24 hours.
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Aug 16, 2015 00:23
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My rear end in a top hat prisoners are refusing to be interested in learning Carpentry and I'm growing increasingly convinced it's out of pure spite. SEVENTEEN OF YOU ALREADY PASSED WORKSHOP QUALIFICATION, WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO BE CARPENTERS  Also I'm considering buying a plot of extra land and building a luxury prison cell wing, complete with its own kitchen that serves high quality high variety meals, and not assigning it to anyone in particular, just to see what happens. I'm curious if it'll increase bad behavior out of jealousy or good behavior because they want those goddamn cells.
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Aug 16, 2015 05:15
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This game makes some great stories 
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Aug 16, 2015 06:19
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CapnAndy posted:My rear end in a top hat prisoners are refusing to be interested in learning Carpentry and I'm growing increasingly convinced it's out of pure spite. SEVENTEEN OF YOU ALREADY PASSED WORKSHOP QUALIFICATION, WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO BE CARPENTERS I have this problem as well with about the same amount of qualified workshop dudes. Are your guys mostly maxsec? I figured it was because of that. Or maybe we just need more workmen?
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Aug 16, 2015 06:22
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Away all Goats posted:I have this problem as well with about the same amount of qualified workshop dudes. Are your guys mostly maxsec? I figured it was because of that. Or maybe we just need more workmen? 20 of them are suppressed out of a population of 88, it's maaaaybe that? But those are the 20 troublemakers who keep on getting caught with contraband, it's the same dudes over and over again.
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Aug 16, 2015 07:05
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CapnAndy posted:My rear end in a top hat prisoners are refusing to be interested in learning Carpentry and I'm growing increasingly convinced it's out of pure spite. SEVENTEEN OF YOU ALREADY PASSED WORKSHOP QUALIFICATION, WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO BE CARPENTERS I'm actually wondering if this is a bug because I've been having the same issue in two prisons now: there are tons of qualified, non-suppressed prisoners but nobody wants to take it. I've got people taking the GEQ program but nobody doing carpentry.
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Aug 16, 2015 11:27
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I've never had anyone try carpentry but every other program is full to the brim. It is a bit odd.
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Aug 16, 2015 13:51
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I've only ever had about 9-10 prisoners complete and work carpentry, never more than one at a time/per prison.
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Aug 16, 2015 14:24
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They might have toned down the carpentry program attendance because I was able to fill whole workshops with carpenters and churn out a steady stream of planks/beds, using normal security labour. I haven't tried again since the recent patches, I'll try on my next prison to get a lot of carpentry going. I did find out that if you keep a 10 square wide forestry all around your prison between an exterior and interior fence you'll rake in minimum 20k per day of tree exports, although it will cost something like 200k to plant the whole thing and about 20-30 builders full-time to cut down the trees.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:10
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If anything needs to be toned down it's log sales, since with the appropriate initial investment you'll make way more money just being a tree farm than you will being a prison. Seriously, if you have a small admin office, a big export line, and then some workmen and gardeners, a Small initial lot can turn around tens of thousands a day, with no risk and, if there aren't any prisoners on site, even any hitches, since fatigue is disabled without prisoners around.
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Aug 16, 2015 19:15
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Yeah before I went "gently caress it" and edited my money to a huge level, i'd just leave the game on overnight chopping trees.
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Aug 16, 2015 22:24
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| # ? May 29, 2024 15:50 |
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Tree Farm Simulator 2015
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Aug 16, 2015 22:43
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