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thespaceinvader posted:Paladins get Weakening Challenge in Epic which is awesome when everything on the board has to attack you or deal half damage. Gotta actually get to Epic first though, is the thing. Saying 'Paladins are AWESOME in the last ten levels of the game that few people reach" isn't a saving note, and to be frank, one of the bigger issues I've had with some of 4e mechanics talk is that a lot of people end up building for Epic, which may never come.
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Aug 10, 2015 23:11
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I still want to play a Half-Orc Straladin with the Son of Mercy paragon path. At level 13 between Call of Challenge, Red Death, and Castigating Strike, that's three encounter power mass-marks in your arsenal. Throw in World Serpent's Grasp and maybe Vicious Advantage on top of the slow effect of your Lawbreaker's Doom, and you've got some serious lockdown capabilities. But Cirno is right, unfortunately many games don't get to the point where some of the more powerful options appear or begin to synergize.
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Aug 10, 2015 23:13
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ProfessorCirno posted:Gotta actually get to Epic first though, is the thing. Saying 'Paladins are AWESOME in the last ten levels of the game that few people reach" isn't a saving note, and to be frank, one of the bigger issues I've had with some of 4e mechanics talk is that a lot of people end up building for Epic, which may never come. Paladins also have some nice punishment stacking immediate actions starting in heroic as early as Avenging Smite (melee attack immediate that immobilizes) or Price of Cowardice (close burst implement attack that blinds). And the challenge/sanction damage can get better if you invest in things like the Symbol of the Champion's Code (lvl 8+ holy symbol that adds its bonus to your damage), radiant vulnerability (power of the sun, solar enemy, plus enhancements from Pelor's Sun Blessing) or roll a strength/cha build (and/or half-orc build). Vulnerability also means that punishment stacking becomes even more fun. And being dazed won't shut you down like it does other defenders. I do like the list of paladin powers and feats, there's plenty of good choices out there.
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Aug 11, 2015 00:19
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thespaceinvader posted:Paladins get Weakening Challenge in Epic which is awesome when everything on the board has to attack you or deal half damage. Ruined my epic DM's day by taking a feyslaughter weapon.
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Aug 11, 2015 22:41
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Unknown Quantity posted:This. The Radiant Mafia is an amazing party gimmick and should be attempted at least once. One of these days I still wanna get a starblade into a radiant mafia game with that one paragon path that was balanced around warlocks having limited access to radiant damage.
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Aug 11, 2015 22:50
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Mecha Gojira posted:I still want to play a Half-Orc Straladin with the Son of Mercy paragon path. At level 13 between Call of Challenge, Red Death, and Castigating Strike, that's three encounter power mass-marks in your arsenal. Throw in World Serpent's Grasp and maybe Vicious Advantage on top of the slow effect of your Lawbreaker's Doom, and you've got some serious lockdown capabilities. Speaking of characters that we wanna play, I'm still miffed that I never got a chance to use my idea for a Dragonborn Monk that'd basically be Fat Cobra from Immortal Iron Fist in terms of personality and physique
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Aug 11, 2015 23:07
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What's a good premade adventure for like 10-12 level PCs? Might be a back-up GM for a 4e game tomorrow.
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Aug 13, 2015 09:20
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Theres a couple in the Dungeon Delve book that can be run with very little prep time for those levels.
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Aug 13, 2015 16:44
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What are some cool monsters or gimmick encounters that would be fun for an all-melee party? I'm GMing with only 3 players and none of them like to stand back so as it stands it's a Lvl 2 party: Dwarf Warrior (mace and shield) Pixie Ranger (dual wield sword) Tiefling Warpriest (mace and shield, Sun Domain) All of them have decent AC so I dunno what would be challenging for them
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Aug 14, 2015 23:36
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If I take a Medium monster and make it Large, should I make any other adjustments? If I make no other adjustments, is it an easier, same, or more difficult opponent?
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Aug 15, 2015 03:22
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I guess it's marginally easier because it's easier to flank it? On the other hand, you've sort of increased the number of squares it can attack, and if it has threatening reach then you've increased them even more
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Aug 15, 2015 03:30
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It becomes easier to flank, it gains the ability to threaten more squares, and it can potentially activate various dwarf/halfling type giantslayer-type feats and mechanics that deal with Large enemies if any of those would apply. The flanking thing probably makes it easier, but it could go either way depending on how the fight is set up.
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Aug 15, 2015 04:12
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Give it a close burst attack of any kind and it's an advantage.
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Aug 15, 2015 04:14
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Large enemies are a lot easier to position AOE bursts and such on without needing to worry about your allies because the z-axis exists.
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Aug 15, 2015 04:17
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ProfessorCirno posted:Warlocks are hard for me to make, simply because every time I make a warlock, I have to ask myself "why aren't I hybriding?" Warlocks are amazing hybrids. Warlocks already have a lot of support for being half-something else, half-striker; you're just nudging them that little bit further. Swordmage|Warlocks are maybe some of the best defenders. Swordmage|Warlocks can also be great strikers for focusing on off-turn attacks with a minor in defending (rather then the other way around). Paladin|Warlocks amp the gently caress out of the paladin mark punishment. Warlord|Warlocks can be crazy striker-leaders. Executioner|Warlocks are really great, if dull, MBA/Charge strikers, who end up taking a minor in Leader. Etc, etc, etc. Yeah, pretty much. Normal Warlocks are ranged strikers with all right damage, decent controller secondary stuff, and a whole bunch of gimmicks. Hybrid Warlocks are incredible catch-22 defenders, monstrous melee strikers, or better nova leaders than a full-warlord. And there are some really stupid (but interesting) gimmick builds that are based on stacking stuff up on the Eldritch Strike at-will that are only really viable if you hybrid.
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Aug 15, 2015 06:01
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Hmm. I have an enemy in an encounter that I decided to make large, for flavor reasons. It's supposed to be a tough encounter anyway, so I may just give him a close burst attack. Maybe also adjust the encounter location to potentially give the enemy a height advantage - like, it can reach something on the ceiling that the PCs can't easily reach. There's no dwarves in the party but they've definitely cottoned on to the power of flanking.
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Aug 15, 2015 06:44
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Leperflesh posted:Hmm. I have an enemy in an encounter that I decided to make large, for flavor reasons. It's supposed to be a tough encounter anyway, so I may just give him a close burst attack. Maybe also adjust the encounter location to potentially give the enemy a height advantage - like, it can reach something on the ceiling that the PCs can't easily reach. Conga Line of Death! Conga Line of Death! Conga Line of Death!
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Aug 15, 2015 06:47
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I'd also say a large monster is weaker than a medium since if it has buddies it's harder for them to gang up on a single opponent since they get in each others way more often.
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Aug 15, 2015 10:27
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I dunno about that. Allies can freely move through each other's spaces, and Large creatures generally have a melee reach of 2. You can have eight medium enemies adjacent or eight large ones 2 squares away each. (And, for extra fun, both at the same time!) As for flanking, you have more positions to flank a Large creature from, but it's more difficult to get into position. Not very difficult for most characters, but you do often need that extra square. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Aug 15, 2015 |
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Aug 15, 2015 10:40
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My Lovely Horse posted:I dunno about that. Allies can freely move through each other's spaces, and Large creatures generally have a melee reach of 2. You can have eight medium enemies adjacent or eight large ones 2 squares away each. We're talking about a monster with no other changes than that its size goes from medium to large. Sure, if you're THEN going to double its reach, it'll be (closer to) equally powerful, but that wasn't part of the situation I was discussing.
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Aug 15, 2015 10:52
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Fair enough but you probably should double its range. 
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Aug 15, 2015 10:53
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My Lovely Horse posted:Fair enough but you probably should double its range. Well, that depends on what you're making. If we're talking a humanoid enemy like an ogre, then it would make sense that it would have long reach. If we're talking something low-to-the-ground like a tortoise or a lizard that needs to bite you or claw at you with its short legs, reach 1 would probably be appropriate.
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Aug 15, 2015 11:24
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I still remember fondly my Gnome Chaladin's SOP. Moon the enemy, turn invisible, then moon them again next turn and tell them he could do this all day. Mechanics: Level 2 utility power to divine sanction everyone in a close burst 3. Gnome racial to turn invisible. Level 1 encounter that divine sanctioned in a close burst 3 if he hit. And minion hordes used to throw down their weapons when they saw the light (took radiant damage). Also the plate armour + heavy shield/enfeebling strike/divine sanction combo worked pretty well to start the debuffs (-2 to hit him, -4 to hit anyone else, and he played tag team provoke tactics with the party fighter against any big bad guys). As for the Essentials classes, I'm actually a fan of the Thief. Mostly because the thief I played didn't have Tactical Trick (so I had to think). Instead he used to delight in abusing Acrobat's Trick for a Death From Above (I have a climb speed? Up the wall, across the ceiling, and I have Acrobatics so I can land on my feet while my daggers land point first in the enemy's back). Essentially they were a class that was light on the combat options, but had effective ones, in exchange for extra utility power shenanigans (climb at will, and the ability to hide almost anywhere). Different but viable and interesting to play - the sort of thing late splatbooks should be producing. The Bladesinger was always better than it was given credit for being - but all the guides I ever read were misleading. The trick with the Bladesinger was that you almost never wanted to use the bladespells on the same creature you were attacking - and there was no point ever setting up your bladespells to do more than one damage (which flew in the face of almost every optimisation guide ever). The point was you could apply a debuff to anyone on the map - including a lot of the more irritating lurkers that thought they were safe this turn. Two of the options were situationally amazing and one was very good; the amazing ones were the ability to knock anyone you liked prone (making it easy to exploit the "Charge Hole" that people who were prone could be too near an enemy to charge and too far to melee) and the ability to slide anyone, friend or foe, three squares including out of trouble. And the ability to apply a to hit debuff to anyone (especially the elite or the solo you weren't actually facing) was just useful, as frequently was a single point of Radiant damage. Dueling one foe while not even needing to roll to mess with others. (And in terms of power level they just needed to power swap their daily power and get a paragon path that gave them an encounter power they could use under Bladespell) And I'm glad the Slayer, the Scout, and the Knight all existed. They broadened the game even if I wouldn't choose to play any of them. And for warlocks, most warlocks were ranged (although I always went for Eldritch Strike, not Eldritch Blast). My Feylock was arguably a melee warlock; his at will SOP was to use Eyebite and a staff - Eyebiting the enemy to be invisible to them (not taking the AoO due to Staff Expertise), hiding from them, and leaving them in a bind - if they swung I was both invisible to them and hidden from them - while if they tried to walk off I had a decent AoO. But two of his three encounter powers were ranged debuffs (Witchfire = You didn't want to bother attacking this turn, Mr. Dragon; -5 to hit makes things pointless, and Mire the Mind is just as good). The Feylock is a single target controller - and the combo Come And Get It/Fey Switch/Otherwind Stride/Sorceror or Pyromancer Boom has destroyed many an encounter. If you want single target damage on the other hand you want the Elemental Pact which has a pact boon that inflicts vulnerability 5 to whatever damage type most of your powers are. And the Infernal Warlock has some awesome feats - I can't remember what it's called, but there's one that turns minions into grenades if you've cursed them (which I took knowing that the GM was going to go minion heavy, and combined with a Rod of Corruption).
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Aug 16, 2015 01:55
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Now that I think about it, it might be a bit of a stretch to say, but I feel like 4e really likes it when everyone picks the same power source for their classes, especially when it comes to the interactions between leaders and strikers. Warlord really likes having martial characters because they're the most likely to have the need for mobility and uses for extra BAs of all the power sources. Similarly, divine characters have the radiant mafia, primals have tons of control over who goes where when you've got a shaman, druid and a warden....I can't think of anything for Arcane or Psionic though...
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Aug 17, 2015 01:16
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It's not really so much that it's explicitly designed to work better when PCs are from the same power source as it is the fact that every power source has some design elements in common, really.
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Aug 17, 2015 08:39
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Arcane characters would have frostcheese, I guess? Cold being the most supported of the classic RPG elements always seemed very random to me. It is not like cold has the same amount of options that other elements get and the cold options are better, cold just happens to have more and better options that are very easy to plug into any build. It always puzzled me.
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Aug 17, 2015 23:28
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GimmickMan posted:Arcane characters would have frostcheese, I guess? But hey, I'm not complaining. Vanilla Icestorm is still one of my favorite 4e characters I've ever made.
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Aug 17, 2015 23:31
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Fire does have a lot of support, actually, it's just that it's all locked behind being a tiefling and/or wizard.
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Aug 17, 2015 23:53
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Could be worse, you could always be someone who wants to use acid damage.
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Aug 17, 2015 23:58
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Lightning and Thunder also have pretty baller support, it's just the only classes I can think of that can make the most of it are sorcerers and swordmages.
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Aug 18, 2015 01:23
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Unknown Quantity posted:Lightning and Thunder also have pretty baller support, it's just the only classes I can think of that can make the most of it are sorcerers and swordmages. Druid can also make use of a bit of it.
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Aug 18, 2015 01:27
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The 4e-based D&D comic book by John Rogers is in this week's Humble Books Bundle: the $1 tier gets you, among other things, all of Rogers's Fell's Five series.
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Aug 18, 2015 23:16
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That's a mighty fun comic. Good art too.
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Aug 19, 2015 00:09
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That drat comic actually resparked my desire to DM. gently caress.
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Aug 19, 2015 03:39
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Is there a 2 page rule thing for character creation or whatever that I can hand to my players? Like, a real quick, "Here are the basics! Let's have fun!" I've never run an official adventure, as a DM, I have more fun crafting my own worlds. Some Backstory: My players have been playing Dungeonworld, and they've grown tired of it, they don't like the "fail forward" mechanic really, and prefer something with more crunch. They want grids, (which I tried to do with DW and failed miserably,) they want very clearly defined rules, and they really really want Dungeons And Dragons. (They got sold on it by some youtube troupe?) They wanted to play 5e, I told them that wouldn't be the best Idea, so we're going with 4e. I've played one game of 4e, promptly forgot the rules with no-one to play with, and let the books gather dust. They're really adverse to front loading with rules, so if I can hand them something to get started, and introduce more rules as we move through it, that'd be awesome! (Also a refresher for a DM whose been playing rules lite games for a few years now would be nice!)
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Aug 19, 2015 10:14
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Turtlicious posted:They got sold on it by some youtube troupe?) Was it Acquisitions Inc.? Because they did it for me! I had my first intro night (basically character creation and an encounter) a few nights ago, so I thought I'd come check out the thread. Our party consists of my Fighting Maul-dwarf, a Devan Cleric, and an Eladrin Wizard. We've just been given the three player handbooks as source material, which I've probably read too much of already... Any beginners advice for me, that doesn't involve getting too far ahead of myself (and my companions)? e: For instance, what feats are good? Noxin of Shame fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 13:19
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The Starter Set for Keep on the Shadowfell has a bunch of pregens with pre-calculated skill modifiers and attacks and whatnot. The core rules are explained in less than a dozen pages   And then the pregen characters are only (hah!) 2 pages long Character creation isn't too bad being read off the book directly: 1. Have them choose a role, or what they want to do 2. Have them choose a power source, or how they want to perform that role. That gives you a matching class 3. Page 17-18 of the PHB 1 gives them a stat array 4. Initiative is Half-Level + DEX 5. Defenses are Half-Level + STR/CON for Fort, or DEX/INT for Reflex, or WIS/CHA for Will 6. The respective racial pages will tell you exactly how they affect the character sheet 7. The respective class pages will tell you exactly how they affect the character sheet, and they all have a choice of 2 "starting packages" of Feats, Skills, and Powers 8. Let them buy equipment. Half-level + straight AC if they get heavy armor, or they can add their DEX if light armor. Stats for the weapons are also fairly straightforward.
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Aug 19, 2015 14:13
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Are y'all using any kind of character builder? That's really the easiest thing for character creation, and also nice because they can generate power cards for all the abilities & such for table references. With those you really only need to keep them aware of the game's action economy (Standard/Move/Minor, 1 opportunity action per turn, 1 immediate action per round) and it should be fine. Noxin of Shame posted:Any beginners advice for me? Check out 4e's charop forum (here's the fighter guide, and the guide collection thread). Lots of good general advice, power recommendations, and feat recommendations.
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Aug 19, 2015 14:37
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Noxin of Shame posted:e: For instance, what feats are good? Generally the first feats you should always take are Improved Defenses and the Essentials Expertise feat for whatever your character fights with--Bludgeon Expertise, in your case. It might be worth As a Dwarf Fighter, you also definitely want Dwarven Weapon Training: proficiency and a damage bonus with all axes and hammers, including the superior types.
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Aug 19, 2015 15:49
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While Expertise and Improved Defenses are highly recommended feats, you don't necessarily have to have take them at the first couple of levels because it's only a 5% boost to hit and to defenses in heroic tier, though generally speaking you probably want expertise sooner than improved defenses because if you don't hit your target, you don't do much. That said, there are some classes like the Brawler Fighter (which has a native +2 enhancement bonus to unarmed attacks at level 1) or the warpriest (which can have many powers where everything operates off of effects that come into play no matter what) where you can put it off a bit more (though you still want it before you hit level 11).
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Aug 19, 2015 16:51
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