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g0del posted:On the other hand, calling two ships which everyone already saw in the trailer months ago "spoilers" is taking that term to an absurd level. And the whole "a giant corporation planned a surprise for you because they love you, not because they want to get money out of you" theme of his rant just screams mental issues. A blue X Wing and two TIE fighters with whitewall tires. That was the surprise
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Aug 19, 2015 18:40
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Tekopo posted:Unless you are measuring for a Target Lock. I've always wondered--- you can technically be a bit of a dickhole and Attempt to Target Lock someone clearly out of your range just so you can break out the range ruler, right?
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Aug 19, 2015 20:47
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Long as you don't obviously try to measure the distance to something else, then yes.
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Aug 19, 2015 20:49
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yellowjournalism posted:I've always wondered--- you can technically be a bit of a dickhole and Attempt to Target Lock someone clearly out of your range just so you can break out the range ruler, right?
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Aug 19, 2015 21:00
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The fact that declaring a target lock that you're out of range to take doesn't lose you an action is probably tacit approval of doing exactly that, or something similar.
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Aug 19, 2015 21:04
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I don't really think it is. It's a way to be consistent with all other actions within the game. If you attempt to boost/barrel roll and find out you can't, you don't lose an action there. If not being able to target lock lost you an action, it would be inconsistent. The 'trick' is a side effect of this rule.
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Aug 19, 2015 21:06
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Yeah it's a little bit of a trick but ultimately only useful for a newbie (or spatially impaired like my friend is but that's why he doesn't play games like these). If it's close enough it's p obvious what the ranges are and if it's in range 3+ it only helps you with bank 3 and straight 5.
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Aug 19, 2015 21:18
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yellowjournalism posted:I've always wondered--- you can technically be a bit of a dickhole and Attempt to Target Lock someone clearly out of your range just so you can break out the range ruler, right? I do this all the time because I'm spatially impaired and want to win every game of X-Wing I play. Fly casual my friends.
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Aug 19, 2015 21:54
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Me and the people I play with are all filthy casuals and we premeasure poo poo a lot of the time. It's a habit I should break, less because I want to be an elite tournament player (I don't even think there are any tournaments in my neck of the woods) and more because I want to rely less on crutches and actually get better at flying, especially since I want to play more with Wedge/Wes and you need to be on your game if you want to use X-Wings.
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Aug 19, 2015 22:24
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Kai Tave posted:Me and the people I play with are all filthy casuals and we premeasure poo poo a lot of the time. It's a habit I should break, less because I want to be an elite tournament player (I don't even think there are any tournaments in my neck of the woods) and more because I want to rely less on crutches and actually get better at flying, especially since I want to play more with Wedge/Wes and you need to be on your game if you want to use X-Wings. I'm hardly an "elite" tournament player (never broken to top 8 in a FFG sponsored one, best finish was 2nd in a small [16 people] escalation tournament), but I think it's a good idea to know the etiquette and conventions of tournament play. Stuff like not premeasuring, knowing the order dice rolls and modifications are supposed to go, etc.
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Aug 19, 2015 22:28
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Strobe posted:I'm hardly an "elite" tournament player (never broken to top 8 in a FFG sponsored one, best finish was 2nd in a small [16 people] escalation tournament), but I think it's a good idea to know the etiquette and conventions of tournament play. Stuff like not premeasuring, knowing the order dice rolls and modifications are supposed to go, etc. The one I wish that more people had a handle on is no, Imperial players don't automatically break ties for initiative, just flip a coin.
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Aug 19, 2015 22:49
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Nobody I ever play with reliably has a coin, so we use a red die and call hits/crits or blank/focus.
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Aug 19, 2015 22:52
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Strobe posted:Nobody I ever play with reliably has a coin, so we use a red die and call hits/crits or blank/focus. Yeah that's what we did for the tournament I was in, and I figured it was the norm.
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Aug 19, 2015 22:56
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It's the norm around here, too. At least, it was before initiative bids went out of control in the local meta. Had no fewer than three people in the last week come at me with a 95 or 96 point list for the explicit purpose of taking back initiative from Wedge. 
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Aug 19, 2015 23:01
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Kai Tave posted:The one I wish that more people had a handle on is no, Imperial players don't automatically break ties for initiative, just flip a coin. To be fair, if you learned the rules early on, ties did automatically go to Imperials.
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Aug 19, 2015 23:03
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That stopped being true back in Wave 2. Nobody new should be making that mistake, and nobody who's been around that long should be wrong about it anymore.
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Aug 19, 2015 23:04
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My entire collection of ships is Wave 2 and earlier. I still play the game with my friends. If I didn't read about X-Wing on internet forum Something Awful dot com I would not have a reasonable way of knowing about the initiative thing.
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Aug 19, 2015 23:06
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Chomp8645 posted:I still play the game with my friends. If I didn't read about X-Wing on internet forum Something Awful dot com I would not have a reasonable way of knowing about the initiative thing. Yeah; this. I've never been to an official tournament; my entire history of play is the most casual of flying. I learned about the initiative thing about a week ago because I was finally able to go to league night at my FLGS and someone called me on it.
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Aug 19, 2015 23:09
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I don't even have the FLGS angle because mine sucks. 24/7 Card players (mainly Magic of course) with the occasional RPG group. Nary a board or miniatures game to be found (in play that is, they have them for sale).
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Aug 19, 2015 23:13
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Strobe posted:That stopped being true back in Wave 2. Nobody new should be making that mistake, and nobody who's been around that long should be wrong about it anymore. It's still in the rulebook that comes with the starter box.
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Aug 20, 2015 00:22
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Fair enough. I've been conditioned by previous games to look for errata or updates as a matter of reflex, so it didn't even pop up for me.
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Aug 20, 2015 00:35
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grassy gnoll posted:It's still in the rulebook that comes with the starter box. I thought that was changed for reprints. Although it's very possible that if you buy one that's been sitting on a store shelf for a while, it's a older printing.
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Aug 20, 2015 00:35
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It may be in the latest ones. Mine was old enough to have the Warhammer Conquest FFG catalog, while my friend got a newer one that was basically STAR WARS STAR WARS STAR WARS, but still had the old unerrataed rules. I dunno if that makes any kind of discernible timeline.
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Aug 20, 2015 00:54
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I dont know how recent a print mine was but I got a starter set this year and it said Imperials win ties. Having someone be surprised by this is not something that is particularly crazy to find out. For example I found out just now reading this discussion that they dont.
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Aug 20, 2015 03:13
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The reason I even brought it up in the first place is that I know the other people I play with have read the FAQ documents and stuff, they aren't all just totally new players who never visit the FFG website.
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Aug 20, 2015 03:17
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"Imperials get initiative" is a bad rule because it makes Whisper stronger and Soontir weaker. I played the game when the Phantom was just better at the TIE Interceptor's job, it was a dark time.
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Aug 20, 2015 03:56
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How is FFG with replacements? I'm missing the plastic pegs on my Interceptor. We've played a couple more games during the week and have another friend interested in picking up the Scum faction. That's three in our group, each one with a different army.  What's a good starting set? Most of the lists I've seen are either a Firespray and a couple of fighters (So Most Wanted, Slave 1 and maybe an Y-Wing) or 2 IG-2000s. The core is not strictly necessary, as he's always going to be playing against someone who has it.
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Aug 20, 2015 09:28
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Fat Samurai posted:How is FFG with replacements? I'm missing the plastic pegs on my Interceptor. They're super relaxed about it. A friend of mine's Firespray was slightly crooked on his peg. He sent them an email with pictures, he got a new Firespray (just the model though), no questions asked. quote:We've played a couple more games during the week and have another friend interested in picking up the Scum faction. That's three in our group, each one with a different army. Technically every player needs a core set, because strictly speaking each player is required to have a separate damage deck. However, outside of tournament play, noone gives a poo poo and it barely matters. Just share a damage deck. Firespray and Most Wanted is enough to make a competent Scum list. Add a Y-Wing and you can make a Firespray + 2 Y-Wing list, which is pretty good.
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Aug 20, 2015 09:50
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kingcom posted:I dont know how recent a print mine was but I got a starter set this year and it said Imperials win ties. Having someone be surprised by this is not something that is particularly crazy to find out. For example I found out just now reading this discussion that they dont. I bought my starter box a month ago and it mentions "Imperials win initiative ties" as well and had to be informed otherwise by the local players.
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Aug 20, 2015 09:54
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Strobe posted:The fact that declaring a target lock that you're out of range to take doesn't lose you an action is probably tacit approval of doing exactly that, or something similar. It's a bit weird, I've been wargaming for the past 20 years and slowly most systems have gotten rid of guess ranges because it's dumb. If x-wing makes it a few years I suspect they'll change it but until then you'll have a lot of people 'measuring for target lock' just as in Warmachine a lot of people 'measure command radius'
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Aug 20, 2015 10:12
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Geisladisk posted:Firespray and Most Wanted is enough to make a competent Scum list. Add a Y-Wing and you can make a Firespray + 2 Y-Wing list, which is pretty good. Cool, now to mod three way battles in. Aramoro posted:It's a bit weird, I've been wargaming for the past 20 years and slowly most systems have gotten rid of guess ranges because it's dumb. If x-wing makes it a few years I suspect they'll change it but until then you'll have a lot of people 'measuring for target lock' just as in Warmachine a lot of people 'measure command radius' I'd say manoeuvres are different than "aim my catapult at exactly 53,48 cm", and measuring is less helpful in here than in other minis games, but there are probably some rules/upgrades/whatever I'm missing.
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Aug 20, 2015 10:37
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Aramoro posted:It's a bit weird, I've been wargaming for the past 20 years and slowly most systems have gotten rid of guess ranges because it's dumb. If x-wing makes it a few years I suspect they'll change it but until then you'll have a lot of people 'measuring for target lock' just as in Warmachine a lot of people 'measure command radius' A huge part of what makes X-Wing a Good Game is the movement mechanic (it's so good they've even licensed it out to bad games like Star Trek attack fleet, which is the only example I know of of game mechanics being licensed out), which would be made trivial by allowing you to pre-measure. Even if you were only allowed to use the range ruler while selecting movement dials, you could use the range ruler to find out exactly where your ship would land. X-Wing lets you measure whenever you want, except when you're actually making decisions on how to move your ships.
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Aug 20, 2015 12:27
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Geisladisk posted:A huge part of what makes X-Wing a Good Game is the movement mechanic (it's so good they've even licensed it out to bad games like Star Trek attack fleet, which is the only example I know of of game mechanics being licensed out), which would be made trivial by allowing you to pre-measure. Even if you were only allowed to use the range ruler while selecting movement dials, you could use the range ruler to find out exactly where your ship would land. This is the same argument that gets rolled out whenever a game moves from guesswork to premeasuring and it's as wrong here as it is in those games. The skill in the game is knowing which manoeuvres to pick, not to guess your ship will land 2mm beyond the one in front of you and be fine. That wouldn't make picking manoeuvres trivial, it would place more onus on picking the right manoeuvre which is the point of the mechanic. I would guess in high level tournaments no one ever gets the distance moved wrong, when we play at home we don't so by your argument the movement mechanic is already trivial.
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Aug 20, 2015 12:55
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A large part of X-Wing is that everyone has to preset their movement without knowing what your opponent is doing. Premed during would give your opponent some critical information on where you plan on going, and then could set their movment up to take advantage of it. Also, unless your ships move first, premeasuring is only going to tell you if you miss that asteroid, or you clear that ship that moves later. You are still going to get caught up by ships that move before you. So I look at it this way, in tournaments, no one is going to premeasure for fear of giving away vital information. And if you are not playing tournaments, who cares if you premeasure. So why change the rules?
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Aug 20, 2015 13:53
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Aramoro posted:This is the same argument that gets rolled out whenever a game moves from guesswork to premeasuring and it's as wrong here as it is in those games. The skill in the game is knowing which manoeuvres to pick, not to guess your ship will land 2mm beyond the one in front of you and be fine. That wouldn't make picking manoeuvres trivial, it would place more onus on picking the right manoeuvre which is the point of the mechanic. I would guess in high level tournaments no one ever gets the distance moved wrong, when we play at home we don't so by your argument the movement mechanic is already trivial. People definitely do screw up in high level tournaments, quite often. There's no real reason to allow pre-measuring since it would make the game even slower. It makes sense in a 3 hr beer and pretzels game like Warhammer but X-Wing needs to focus on some semblance of fast play.
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Aug 20, 2015 15:06
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Armada is quite a lot slower since it allows you to pre-measure and the movement system isn't quite as straightforward (the click system means that during movement you have quite a selection of different move options).
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Aug 20, 2015 15:18
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I do not want to play a game of X-Wing where someone feels they can gain a competitive advantage by bluffing a pre-measure.
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Aug 20, 2015 16:06
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Poopy Palpy posted:I do not want to play a game of X-Wing where someone feels they can gain a competitive advantage by bluffing a pre-measure. Just out of interest what if they straight up told you what they were going to do? Would you throw down your toys in disgust at their gamesmanship?
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Aug 20, 2015 16:28
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Table flip right then and there.
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Aug 20, 2015 16:31
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Aramoro posted:Just out of interest what if they straight up told you what they were going to do? Would you throw down your toys in disgust at their gamesmanship? The difference there is that they aren't slowing the game down to do it.
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Aug 20, 2015 16:32
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