|
Getting two different slaying accessories in two weeks from A1S is nice. 
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 04:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 11:12 |
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:Getting two different slaying accessories in two weeks from A1S is nice. Yes. I got a ring and a bracelet. What did you get?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 04:48
|
|
|
I'm going to come in with a bad and unpopular opinion. It seems like a lot of this healer talk centers around the fact that scholar is more of a DPS class than a healer class. The way you guys talk about savage makes it seem like the scholar is spending 90% of its time DPSing. Why don't the devs just... stop it. Make it so that scholars have to be healing. I'm never a fan of "nerf one class to buff another" but the fact that scholars are a healer that rarely heal seems kind of... wrong.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:19
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:Why don't the devs just... stop it. Make it so that scholars have to be healing. I'm never a fan of "nerf one class to buff another" but the fact that scholars are a healer that rarely heal seems kind of... wrong. How about no.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:22
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:I'm going to come in with a bad and unpopular opinion. Taking something fun and making it less fun seems like a bad idea.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:23
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:Why don't the devs just... stop it. Make it so that scholars have to be healing. I'm never a fan of "nerf one class to buff another" but the fact that scholars are a healer that rarely heal seems kind of... wrong. What the gently caress why. Why would this be a good idea or fun for anyone. Have you even like, tried playing scholar? Holy hell.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:24
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:I'm going to come in with a bad and unpopular opinion. For once we agree on something.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:28
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:I'm going to come in with a bad and unpopular opinion. It's not that Scholar "rarely heals", though - it's that the majority of encounters have periods of burst healing, and then periods where you simply don't need 100% of your healers' combined throughput. More than anything else, Scholar's just the best of the three at translating that into damage. White Mage is also quite good at it nowadays, and Astrologian.. isn't. The real reason AST/WHM doesn't work out that well is because AST is just kinda lovely - it doesn't carry a large enough % of the healing in Nocturnal Stance to let the WHM dps properly, nor does it provide enough damage to make you want to replace your Scholar. Once Astrologian gets the 2.0 Warrior treatment, expect to see a lot of groups experimenting with both SCH/AST and AST/WHM. e: What you are suggesting is that healers be redesigned in a way that would be akin to Paladin having to choose between Sword Oath and Shield Oath like an Astrologian stance. This is a terrible idea. Niton fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Aug 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:29
|
|
|
Yeah, I heal all the time as my Scholar. I also actively toggle and detoggle cleric stance an awful lot, it's a reflexive thing for whenever I have to shift primary roles. Saying "no scholars, you have to only heal" would be a big buzzkill. Having a dozen plates to spin is what makes Scholar interesting and fun.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:33
|
|
|
Oh, I do totally think it's a terrible idea to gently caress with scholars and what not, but i think it's an interesting philosophy that most people have been saying "Yes we bring this healer because they heal, but it is mainly because of their DPS." Something about that seems... wrong. If and when AST eventually gets buffed, who do you guys think they are most likely to replace between the two other healers?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:34
|
|
|
Encounters are designed around healers dealing a certain amount of damage though so nerfing healer damage could cause larger problems.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:36
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:Why don't the devs just... stop it. Make it so that scholars have to be healing. I'm never a fan of "nerf one class to buff another" but the fact that scholars are a healer that rarely heal seems kind of... wrong. If they made healers deal insignificant or no damage, I would quit this loving game. Edit: If you're talking about Scholars specifically: the reason that they're brought along isn't exclusively the damage; it's the fact that they can deal good damage, but also provide something that WHM can't (shields, Supervirus, Fey Light, etc.). If they dropped Scholar damage down by a big chunk, then people would either bring along WHM/AST or still just bring WHM/SCH and find some way to make up the DPS loss elsewhere. Vermain fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Aug 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:39
|
|
|
healers not doing damage have gigantic amounts of either sitting around and doing loving nothing or overhealing and generating pointless enmity for nothing
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:40
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:Why don't the devs just... stop it. Make it so that scholars have to be healing. I'm never a fan of "nerf one class to buff another" but the fact that scholars are a healer that rarely heal seems kind of... wrong. Savage isn't. It's good that Savage has such strict requirements that force players to play their class to it's fullest. Since every class can deal damage that means Savage fights include them doing some amount of damage to clear it (or the DPS doing that damage on top of their own.) It's the first Savage mode out and the devs are paying attention to those clears so there'll be a balance patch out sometimes that tweaks everyone where the Devs think they should be. I'm pretty sure everyone would say 'bring whatever you want, everything's good' for farm content anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:40
|
|
|
Yeah one thing I don't think a lot of people realize never playing a healer that I'm definitely learning firsthand levelling WHM (and I've been dicking around with SCH a bit too) is that like, you have a lot of time spent not healing. There's not enough healing to do to always be healing. The better geared (and better) your tank is, the less OHSHIT and healing in general you'll be doing. There's a lot of downtime, and my god especially in levelling poo poo and even in many raid encounters, and while dipshit pubbies like to spend that with their thumb firmly up their rear end, it's a huge waste. Many early level encounters for SCH there's literally no point in ever casting physick because your fairy overheal by itself. This game is such that you should pretty much never waste any GCDs, and healers aren't an exception. If there's nothing to heal, you need to do something else. Changing this or requiring healing to consume every possible GCD are both horrific scenarios that are awful for a variety of reasons.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:44
|
|
|
What I will say about healer DPS is that I'd be fine with them working to equalize it a bit more amongst the healers. Scholar's got a leg up due to Aetherflow and the current lack of healer Accuracy (sans pentamelds), making Bio II/Bio I/Shadow Flare better than they appear, as well as the presence of Eos/Selene helping to keep up with healing while you're in Cleric.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:52
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:I'm going to come in with a bad and unpopular opinion. your first mistake was assuming that goons talk about classes honestly rather than rigorously theorycrafting everything under circumstances that only exist in literally the very first week that a new raid is available
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:52
|
|
|
DolphinCop posted:your first mistake was assuming that goons talk about classes honestly rather than rigorously theorycrafting everything under circumstances that only exist in literally the very first week that a new raid is available Okay, but here's a secret: I also spend about 90% of the time in regular dungeons and extreme Primals DPSing as Scholar.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:53
|
|
|
How would things be affected if while a SCH was in cleric stance the faery was subject to the same detriments?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 05:56
|
|
Duo posted:Hey would anyone from the Xeon guild on Exodus be able to let me in, or tell me who I should contact? I'm kinda new and can't seem to find a way to search for players by free company, and I couldn't find anyone at the guild house We're pretty chill so if you just drop by the house in the Goblet and ask someone, they'll drop you an invite. If they're not at the house itself there are usually zeons hanging around at the marketboard just down the street.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:01
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:How would things be affected if while a SCH was in cleric stance the faery was subject to the same detriments? Make the faery become garuda or emerald carbuncle then.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:02
|
|
|
Vermain posted:Okay, but here's a secret: I also spend about 90% of the time in regular dungeons and extreme Primals DPSing as Scholar. oh i wasnt contesting that scholars spend a lot of time in cleric stance. sure. im talking about relative class balance, which is minute enough not to matter past a few weeks of raiding and picking up maximum item level gear. balance hotfixes wont do jack poo poo except piss everyone off
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:03
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:How would things be affected if while a SCH was in cleric stance the faery was subject to the same detriments? First off, thats dumb as hell Secondly, you would just eat the reduction on your fairy because dps is more important than overhealing or whatever the gently caress it is your fairy does when everyone is at 80%+ hp Finally, they already nerfed pets going into 3.0 (in a logical way)
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:04
|
|
|
Healers being able to meaningfully contribute to clear speed is one of the best parts of FF14. One of the worst things about healing in other games is how beholden you are to other people's shittiness, and being able to contribute as much as a decent DPS is one of my favorite parts of the game.
Niton fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Aug 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:11
|
|
|
I think it's really cool and good and a unique aspect of this game that tanks and healers are actually hybrid DPS classes. Maybe they could go in the other direction and give some DPS classes the ability to heal or tank moderately well. Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Aug 21, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:18
|
|
|
Something I've had a lot of fun with in general and especially on alts is because as a tank or healer you can do a decent amount of damage and all kinds of nifty poo poo if you understand the game well, you can hard carry through all kinds of poo poo and feel totally badass. It's one of the really fun things about how this game is designed and changing that would be unfun and terrible.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:24
|
|
|
bonewitch posted:First off, thats dumb as hell Yeah, I'm not saying they should do these things, I was just curious how that would affect things. I played a SCH to 50 through LLDR and never touched it past getting it to 50 for completions sake. I was WHM pre-3.0 and AST post. I'm just wondering what meaningful changes could be made to AST. Here are some of my general ideas: Ensure Reshuffle no longer can give you the same card again. Change Essential Dignity to be 25% of health restored if target is over 50% of health or 50% of health if target is below 50%. This way it works through Cleric Stance. Extend the benefit of Sects out to all party members. (This would probably be too powerful) Rework Celestial Opposition. Instead of 5 second benefit extension, change it to 15 second buff increases your outgoing healing by 30%. Remove the 25% reduced mana cost from Light Speed due to the change in Celestial Opposition.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:25
|
|
|
kafziel posted:How are these calculated, anyway? You write a simulator or a calculator to do these. A calculator generally takes shorter to write and is not prone to RNG but can only give you a very rough approximation, unless the rotation is absolutely immune to RNG (no combo, no procs). A simulator takes way longer to write but if you're efficient you can do it in 3-4 hours of coding and some programmer theorycrafters have already rolled up their general purpose framework. A simulator gives you a more realistic result at the cost of you running thousands of simulations to reduce the margin of error to a decent level. What you do in either case is simply to write a function that repeats the calculation but with a slight difference in each attribute (so a rerun for +10 str, then +10 det, +10 acc, etc) and the difference in DPS divided by the amount increased is the weight of the stat. The value can't be too big because stats can scale with themselves.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:28
|
|
|
In other news: gently caress Mor Dhona fishing forever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:31
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I think it's really cool and good and a unique aspect of this game that tanks and healers are actually hybrid DPS classes. No thanks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:36
|
|
|
what are you talking about, dragoons can tank already
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 06:44
|
|
|
Ignimbrite posted:what are you talking about, dragoons can tank already It's pretty easy to survive as most any DPS class in any four man dungeon if you're good at the job. I've seen bards that could kite packs for days, just like I've been able to run entire dungeons without a tank as a dragoon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 07:09
|
|
|
Every single job in the game has access to an ability that heals.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 07:32
|
|
|
Boten Anna posted:Every single job in the game has access to an ability that heals. And every one has defensive cooldowns of somesort to help survive. It's a really well balanced game. They've done a drat good job of that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 07:35
|
|
|
Boten Anna posted:Every single job in the game has access to an ability that heals. Except Machinist.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 07:43
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Maybe they could go in the other direction and give some DPS classes the ability to heal or tank moderately well. Arcanist/Summoner is a fairly competent healer up until the mid-20s and Titan-Egi can occasionally tank things even at max level. I dunno... while I wouldn't mind DPS classes having a bit more flexibility, it seems like the kind of thing they'd need to be very, very careful with. Probably not worth the effort in the end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 07:57
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I think it's really cool and good and a unique aspect of this game that tanks and healers are actually hybrid DPS classes. I really agree with this. It's been said many times before, but I really believe SE need to find a way for healers to reasonably reach the accuracy requirements. Best case scenario, give cleric stance some native accuracy bonus kind of like how the tank stances work, or at least provide another relic weapon where you can adjust the stats for a big accuracy gain if you wish. Melded accessories are a thing and it's probably marginally worth wearing the i150s but it's not a good or convenient option and I don't think it's even enough accuracy, I think you can hit like 502. You'd have to meld something on the left side too. It's not an investment I've been willing to make for the Mind loss.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 08:03
|
|
|
give mchs and bards a healing song tia
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 08:40
|
|
|
Bring back Dancer, melee range healer that uses TP and weaponskills for support tia square.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 08:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 11:12 |
|
|
Ciaphas posted:That's the penalty they (and we all) pay for AST having the coolest weapon models I fear I used to think AST weapons would be the coolest, because you'd whack enemies with the astrolabe. But then HW released and you're just doing paper cuts with cards. It's cool, but it's not nearly as cool as whacking a guy with your big, fat tome. Vermain posted:What I will say about healer DPS is that I'd be fine with them working to equalize it a bit more amongst the healers. Scholar's got a leg up due to Aetherflow and the current lack of healer Accuracy (sans pentamelds), making Bio II/Bio I/Shadow Flare better than they appear, as well as the presence of Eos/Selene helping to keep up with healing while you're in Cleric. WHM and SCH are actually in a pretty good spot right now. SCH has slightly more single target DPS, and WHM has this hilarious AOE burst in the form of holy spam under presence of mind. It amounts to a hilarious amount of dps on just two targets, and just goes up from there. It's not something you use often due to MP constraints, but when you use it, it feels the best.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 09:42
|
|
