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cargohills posted:Good turn-based games are way better than RTWP. See: XCOM, Shadowrun Shadowrun has very mediocre gameplay saved by a good writing and plot. The game does give you a good incentive for avoiding combat by making it so dull and mechanical. Not that it stopped me from spending most of yesterday playing HK, but honestly I wish they had just made them as point and click adventure games instead of trying and failing to make something like XCom. I will agree that XCom is great but it is't really an exploration based RPG, which is when I prefer RTWP.
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Aug 21, 2015 14:21
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RTWP is a halfway house, its to fast to properly plan things without constantly mashing the pause button, but you are expected to manage things to much for real time. I can live with it. but I alway feel like I'm not pausing enough during fights, or there are a lot of options I'm not using. I want to react to combat, or plan for it, not a bit of both!
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Aug 21, 2015 14:24
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Serf posted:The greatest crime is that we never got the 4E turn-based tactical dungeon crawler that we should have. If there ever was a game primed for being turned into a CRPG it was 4E. this would have been really great
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Aug 21, 2015 14:40
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bunnielab posted:How people can hate on realtime-with-pause is beyond me. Turn based is so dull.
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Aug 21, 2015 14:40
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Grey Hunter posted:RTWP is a halfway house, its to fast to properly plan things without constantly mashing the pause button, but you are expected to manage things to much for real time. Which is why RTWP is the best, assuming the game has a decent auto-pause menu. You can tweak the combat speed and complexity to your liking.
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Aug 21, 2015 14:42
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gradenko_2000 posted:There are a lot of general game design reasons to prefer turn-based to real-time-with-pause, but specific to the D&D games, the strongest one is that the original tabletop game being ported from is turn-based. Sure, but it had/has and initiative system and I don't think that is a valid point in any case as RTWP is not something you can do in a tabletop game.
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Aug 21, 2015 14:45
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bunnielab posted:Shadowrun has very mediocre gameplay saved by a good writing and plot. The game does give you a good incentive for avoiding combat by making it so dull and mechanical. Not that it stopped me from spending most of yesterday playing HK, but honestly I wish they had just made them as point and click adventure games instead of trying and failing to make something like XCom. Shadowrun's system is still miles ahead of something like Baldur's Gate. Even Fallout, which has a pretty terrible turn-based system, is also better than RTWP.
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Aug 21, 2015 14:52
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Well, consider games that split up actions into actual lengths of time and you just "pause" the game to have everyone take their turns at a confluence of actions done, or you process people in order of their actions completing. Those are "real-time" systems because time is treated as constantly passing. It's kind of a joke in the Infinity Engine games when one of the auto-pause options is "when a round has passed". If swinging a sword takes x seconds and swinging a polearm takes y seconds (and you know this because AD&D specifies weapon speed factors) but you're still not going to evenly divide them up over time and instead abide by the strict attacks-per-round anyway, what are you really gaining from turning the game real-time?
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Aug 21, 2015 14:53
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Why are you arguing about a thing that's just personal preference?
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Aug 21, 2015 14:53
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Andrast posted:Why are you arguing about a thing that's just personal preference? Welcome to
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Aug 21, 2015 15:10
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Andrast posted:Why are you arguing about a thing that's just personal preference? What else is there to do at 9am on a Friday morning? cargohills posted:Shadowrun's system is still miles ahead of something like Baldur's Gate. Even Fallout, which has a pretty terrible turn-based system, is also better than RTWP. This guy most likely puts beans in his chilli. Speaking of D&D, I am cleaning out my parent's garage and am would love to give the following old lead minis away to a good home.  They are mostly all labeled TSR and Ral Partha, I must have bought them in the early to mid 90's. I am going to keep a few of the painted ones for my desk, maybe just the twin mind flayers and the wizard/warlock looking dude. If anyone wants them let me know and I can stick them in the mail next week. They should all fit in a $5 flat rate box and I will cover shipping unless you live somewhere weird.
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Aug 21, 2015 15:17
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bunnielab posted:How people can hate on realtime-with-pause is beyond me. Turn based is so dull. Because realtime-with-pause is actually just "realtime-until-it's-hard-then-pause." If the issue with turn based combat is that fighting weak enemies is boring (the thing that realtime alleviates), get rid of the weak enemies.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:38
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Americans are incredibly bad at making RPG videogames. Only the Slavic and Japanese races can make good ones.
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Aug 21, 2015 20:46
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False. Americans made Alpha Protocol.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:44
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Potsticker posted:False. Americans made Alpha Protocol. Under the benevolent gaze of their Japanese overlords, Sega.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:47
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Ojetor posted:Under the benevolent gaze of their Japanese overlords, Sega. Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Mass Effect...
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Aug 21, 2015 21:48
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Error 404 posted:Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Mass Effect... What about them?
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Aug 21, 2015 21:48
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get the gently caress out of here with racism
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Aug 21, 2015 21:49
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Also Koreans made DFO and TERA so they can be welcomed into the good RPG makers group, as trial members pending approval.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:49
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Countblanc posted:What about them? RPG videogames made by americans (and canadians) Error 404 fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 21:50
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Countblanc posted:What about them? They're all bad.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:53
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Error 404 posted:Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Mass Effect... Those have some lovely rear end gameplay dude.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:53
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Potsticker posted:They're all bad. 
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Aug 21, 2015 21:56
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Error 404 posted:Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Mass Effect... Way to make his point for him.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:56
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2400 AD came from America and that was pretty good.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:00
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I admit having to look where it came from first, but Hired Guns came out of a little company out of Scotland called DMA Design.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:09
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Those have some lovely rear end gameplay dude. They're miles ahead of any final fantasy game tho.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:09
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Error 404 posted:They're miles ahead of any final fantasy game tho. They aren't even as good RPGs as Doom RPG for old feature phones.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:13
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Unlike modern Bethesda games even the shittiest Compile Heart pile doesnt require mods to be playable and even those have better story than Mass loving Effect.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:14
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Potsticker posted:They aren't even as good RPGs as Doom RPG for old feature phones. why?
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Aug 21, 2015 22:14
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Unlike modern Bethesda games even the shittiest Compile Heart pile doesnt require mods to be playable and even those have better story than Mass loving Effect. which says a lot about final fantasy that it's so much worse than even that. really makes u think
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Aug 21, 2015 22:15
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Error 404 posted:why? Better map structure, better combat and better method of conveying the story to the player. Also included: Orcs & Elved I + II, or even Hexen.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:18
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Countblanc posted:Because realtime-with-pause is actually just "realtime-until-it's-hard-then-pause." If the issue with turn based combat is that fighting weak enemies is boring (the thing that realtime alleviates), get rid of the weak enemies. This is correct.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:22
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Error 404 posted:which says a lot about final fantasy that it's so much worse than even that. Final Fantasy Tactics is better than literally every game made in Earth (jury's out on MGS V: The Phantom Pain).
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Aug 21, 2015 22:27
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Countblanc posted:Because realtime-with-pause is actually just "realtime-until-it's-hard-then-pause." If the issue with turn based combat is that fighting weak enemies is boring (the thing that realtime alleviates), get rid of the weak enemies. Sure, but games never do this, the Shadowrun games are especially bad at this, you can just wreck a combat and still have so much tedious clicking to mop every one up. I can deal with turn based games if they have an initiative system, otherwise you might as well go get a drink during the NCP turn if there are more than three guys on the screen.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:28
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Riven was made by Canadians, right? That's a better RPG than that list. Hell, even Zork: Grand Inquisitor was better. If you need stats then Beyond Zork is another far superior RPG and that's not even getting into Ultima IV, V, or Underworld.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:38
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Potsticker posted:Riven was made by Canadians, right? Aside from "perfectly generic human" being the only role being played in Riven, the company is based in Spokane.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:44
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inklesspen posted:Aside from "perfectly generic human" being the only role being played in Riven, the company is based in Spokane. "perfectly generic MALE human" is how you're treated in most of the Elder Scrolls game and at least half the Fallout games, the other half losing the gender modifier. Cmnd. Shepard is also not far from a generic humam.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:51
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Arcanum has better interaction with the player's choice of race and gender.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:52
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DarckRedd posted:Way to make his point for him.
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Aug 21, 2015 23:44
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