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ImpAtom posted:My dark secret is that I never actually could get over the fact that Vegeta murdered literally billions of people and even when he is really funny it's still sort of genuinely weird because he's a horrifying monster who delighted in hurting people until he became a trophy husband. A lot of his popularity comes from the idea that people who do horrible things and then redeem themselves can be viewed from a certain perspective to be more honorable than someone who was a saint right out of the gate. It's pretty much the driving force behind why anti-heroes are so popular. It reassures us that we can find redemption despite any mistakes we've made in our lives, thus those kinds of characters tend to be very popular. See also Spike vs. Angel in Buffy. One is a good guy because he was cursed to be, the other fought and bled to become a good guy. Which is the more honorable? Goku is "destined" to be a saviour. Vegeta had to work his way to it.
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Aug 21, 2015 16:10
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sharktamer posted:Seeing Vegeta debase himself to save the world is really funny, but no that should not become what this show is exclusively and stop saying "slice of life" every other post. no and no
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Aug 21, 2015 16:10
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During my Kai viewing with the wife, I'm becoming increasingly sympathetic for Tien and Yamcha's feelings towards Vegeta. I mean, what the gently caress, he's directly responsible for their deaths and now he's shacking up with Yamcha's girl and palling around with everyone like he didn't show up with a big brute and a bunch of plant monsters with the intent to kill everyone on the planet and sell it for profit? I'm really surprised the two of them don't make a bigger deal out of it.
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Aug 21, 2015 16:17
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Without Goku, neither of them can actually do anything about Vegeta hanging out on Earth.
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Aug 21, 2015 16:19
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New Leaf posted:During my Kai viewing with the wife, I'm becoming increasingly sympathetic for Tien and Yamcha's feelings towards Vegeta. I mean, what the gently caress, he's directly responsible for their deaths and now he's shacking up with Yamcha's girl and palling around with everyone like he didn't show up with a big brute and a bunch of plant monsters with the intent to kill everyone on the planet and sell it for profit? I'm really surprised the two of them don't make a bigger deal out of it. They couldn't at the time. When Vegeta was zapped back to Earth he became de facto most powerful person on the planet. Piccolo might have been able to match him at best but we have no way of knowing what kind of zenkai he got from being wished back from the dead. It was in everyone's best interest to let Vegeta do whatever the gently caress he pleased until Goku came back. Plus he had won some points with Krillin and Gohan for partnering up with them on Namek.
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Aug 21, 2015 16:19
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I'm not saying they should try to fight him. Let's say I got shot by a guy who broke into my house and was in a coma for a year, and when I came out of the coma, all my buddies were there waiting for me in the hospital room with the guy who shot me and put me there in the first place, guess what? They wouldn't be my buddies anymore.
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Aug 21, 2015 16:41
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New Leaf posted:I'm not saying they should try to fight him. Let's say I got shot by a guy who broke into my house and was in a coma for a year, and when I came out of the coma, all my buddies were there waiting for me in the hospital room with the guy who shot me and put me there in the first place, guess what? They wouldn't be my buddies anymore. He wasn't one of their best friends, but it's better not to piss off the already terminally angry short man that can destroy your planet. And having the super powerful angry man even nominally on your side is beneficial when DBZ poo poo goes down.
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Aug 21, 2015 16:51
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New Leaf posted:I'm not saying they should try to fight him. Let's say I got shot by a guy who broke into my house and was in a coma for a year, and when I came out of the coma, all my buddies were there waiting for me in the hospital room with the guy who shot me and put me there in the first place, guess what? They wouldn't be my buddies anymore. But in Dragonball there's a precedent for bad guys becoming good guys. So it'd more like if you woke up and the shooter was there, but three of your buddies had also shot you in the past but felt real bad about it and became your friends.
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Aug 21, 2015 16:52
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Bulma isn't Yamcha's girl.
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Aug 21, 2015 16:52
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ImpAtom posted:My dark secret is that I never actually could get over the fact that Vegeta murdered literally billions of people and even when he is really funny it's still sort of genuinely weird because he's a horrifying monster who delighted in hurting people until he became a trophy husband. To be fair, he kind of spends 75 percent of his screen time getting punished via getting his poo poo ruined/killed by literally everyone who matters. Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 16:56
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Did he actually kill billions of people?
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Aug 21, 2015 17:02
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Also like Piccolo and Tien himself were complete assholes in DB.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:04
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I found English Motherfucking Fanlation Beerus kind of hilarious, and would appreciate a gag dub of Battle of the Gods where everything is the same but Beerus is Samuel L Jackson flinging f-bombs like they were candy.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:07
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Mordaedil posted:Did he actually kill billions of people? He destroyed the populations of multiple planets. Even if you give Nappa a full half of that (and discount things like him blowing up an entire planet during a filler story) "billions" is a conservative estimate.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:08
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ImpAtom posted:He destroyed the populations of multiple planets. Even if you give Nappa a full half of that (and discount things like him blowing up an entire planet during a filler story) "billions" is a conservative estimate. But he killed "those" people. I don't care about them. Also wasn't that anime filler?
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Aug 21, 2015 17:09
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Dexo posted:But he killed "those" people. I don't care about them. Also wasn't that anime filler? It was his job as part of Frieza's crew. Go clear out planet populations so we can sell it to other people who want that prime real estate.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:12
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Dexo posted:But he killed "those" people. I don't care about them. Also wasn't that anime filler? No, that was what all the Saiyans did. Goku was sent to Earth to do that but ended up bonking his head. Radditz even tried to get Goku to pick up his old job.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:14
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Torix posted:My pet theory is that Super Saiyan 3 is NOT the natural follow-up to Super Saiyan 2. It's some weird freakish side effect state caused by an intentional massive power output. I kinda like this idea because it's never really been shown how Goku got SSJ3 is it? He just goes "check this poo poo out" and transforms doesn't he? Then Gotenks does the same like he just sussed out the way Goku did it. They both mention how short a time frame they have when using it too, so it could be easy enough to retcon that it's actually like some kind of Kaioken variation which rapidly increases their strength but puts such a strain on their body that it burns through all of their energy really quickly. If the Vegeta "bulma" powerup gets explored a bit more in the show, they could even say that he knows all about the SSJ3 technique from when he was Vegitto, but out of pride never considered it a true increase of the SSJ form much like his 'advanced' SSJ which more or less failed when fighting Cell. Then the whole SSJ god stuff kicks in and makes it all redundant anyway, but something along the lines of the above would be a nice way to address all of the crazy transformation poo poo that happened in the Buu saga. Mind you, i think it would be kinda cool if the series diverted a little bit from the films. So have goku become the SSJ God or whatever and then his blue haired SSGSSJ form, but Vegeta instead goes down the standard SSJ route eventually leading to a 'true' SSJ3 form. It might give the characters a little more variety.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:26
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Dexo posted:But he killed "those" people. I don't care about them. Also wasn't that anime filler? The episode showing them doing exactly that is filler, but the fact that that is what they do isn't.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:27
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Vegeta being the prince of all saiyans, there's a certain unknown qualifier on how much he actually had to dirty his hands prior to him killing Nappa. He wasn't sent away to another planet like Goku was, after all.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:30
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Mordaedil posted:Vegeta being the prince of all saiyans, there's a certain unknown qualifier on how much he actually had to dirty his hands prior to him killing Nappa. He wasn't sent away to another planet like Goku was, after all.  Dude's entire planet was blown up and he was forced into working with Frieza.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:32
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ImpAtom posted:
I remember that scene, but it gets a bit of a different mood if you think of it as Vegeta testing Nappas cooking.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:36
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That was anime filler. Vegeta was Freeza's pet, and elite, so he probably got sent on special missions that involved really irritating people. And he probably let Radditz and Nappa do most of the razing while he handled anyone worth actually fighting, if we go by how he acted on earth.
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Aug 21, 2015 18:10
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Idgaf that murdered tons of space people because most of the ones we've seen are pretty awful and they're not as cool as Vegeta.
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Aug 21, 2015 18:12
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ImpAtom posted:
I wonder what went through the animators' minds here. "Ok so how do I color this guy? Wait what do you mean there's zero references?! Aw gently caress it."
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Aug 21, 2015 18:15
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Fuego Fish posted:Translation, especially between languages that share no common grammatical structure, is never a case of converting x into y. You can't boil things down into words or even phrases that have a 1:1 version in the language you're translating into. Everything depends on context and the meaning behind the words. Manga-wise, a lot of those characters were pretty rude and they sure say "poop" a lot and Vegeta isn't just going to kill someone, he's going to {rude adverb} kill someone. "rear end in a top hat" was a birdcall in his Dr Slump manga. "motherfucking cocksucker" though? I haven't run into that one! What I'm guessing is at play is that for the foul mouth to make sense the translator fills it with the rude words we might use. Which typically have four letters. There's other ways to get across in a cartoon someone is polite enough to be creepy (Freeza) rude out of naivette (Goku) or arrogance (Vegeta) plus the whole shonen tough guy talk thing.
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Aug 21, 2015 18:18
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HGH posted:I wonder what went through the animators' minds here. Good thing they fixed that scene in Kai 
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Aug 21, 2015 18:23
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Bell_ posted:"rear end in a top hat" was a birdcall in his Dr Slump manga. Huh?
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Aug 21, 2015 18:25
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Some of the first fansubs I had for old DBZ movies went crazy on the loving GODDAMMIT BITCH translation when you hear a character calmly say "kuso," which would translate to crap or poo poo, depending on tone. Reading that brings me back to the old days.
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Aug 21, 2015 18:25
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Baal posted:Idgaf that murdered tons of space people because most of the ones we've seen are pretty awful and they're not as cool as Vegeta. Hitler was a pretty cool guy, is what you're saying. It always comes back to Hitler. Always. 
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Aug 21, 2015 18:28
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Darko posted:That was anime filler. Vegeta was Freeza's pet, and elite, so he probably got sent on special missions that involved really irritating people. And he probably let Radditz and Nappa do most of the razing while he handled anyone worth actually fighting, if we go by how he acted on earth. No it wasn't. You're thinking of a different episode. This scene is even in DBKai with fixed coloring. Edit: 
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 18:38
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Toriyama probably just forgot Vegeta killed all those people, so it no longer happened.
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Aug 21, 2015 18:45
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ImpAtom posted:No it wasn't. You're thinking of a different episode. This scene is even in DBKai with fixed coloring. Ah, my fault, I was. Completely forgot about that actually being in the manga.
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Aug 21, 2015 18:51
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The latest Super manga is out, and Gohan and everyone else are taken out offscreen (hopefully to account for this upcoming episode actually having them do something?), while Vegeta gets a longer "not my Bulma" scene. Also, Champa and the woman Whis are searching the universe for giant dragon balls.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:06
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Darko posted:The latest Super manga is out, and Gohan and everyone else are taken out offscreen (hopefully to account for this upcoming episode actually having them do something?), while Vegeta gets a longer "not my Bulma" scene. Also, Champa and the woman Whis are searching the universe for giant dragon balls. Now the real question is whether those are the Namekian Dragon Balls or something else. Glad we're seeing progress on that front now though.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:08
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Darko posted:The latest Super manga is out, and Gohan and everyone else are taken out offscreen (hopefully to account for this upcoming episode actually having them do something?), while Vegeta gets a longer "not my Bulma" scene. Also, Champa and the woman Whis are searching the universe for giant dragon balls. Master roshi was right
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Aug 21, 2015 19:11
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Fuego Fish posted:Translation, especially between languages that share no common grammatical structure, is never a case of converting x into y. You can't boil things down into words or even phrases that have a 1:1 version in the language you're translating into. Everything depends on context and the meaning behind the words. Most importantly, its a comic for kids.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:31
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actually its a comic for MEN
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Aug 21, 2015 19:38
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i loved Dragon poo poo Ball Motherfucker Z
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Aug 21, 2015 19:46
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Those scans remind me of the old VHS fansubs that had Vegeta screaming "COME OUT YOU CANDY rear end human being" when searching for Dr. Gero. Anime is SERIOUSLY for ADULTS, I swear! Look how much they swear in JAPANESE! 
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Aug 21, 2015 20:25
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