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Medium Style posted:Got Dark Moon to the table. It was mostly a flop because one of the infected had no idea what to do, but at least it was a 45 minute flop and not a 3 hour one. If anyone is familiar with the game, I had some questions... For the first one, do you mean dice from a previous action in the turn? If so, those move from spent to available as soon as they're completed. Also, Luba can reroll lone wolf attempts as well.
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Aug 23, 2015 05:09
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Had to play Boss Monster tonight. Trip report: still sucks, continue to gently caress that game.
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Aug 23, 2015 05:20
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Spiggy posted:For the first one, do you mean dice from a previous action in the turn? If so, those move from spent to available as soon as they're completed. Also, Luba can reroll lone wolf attempts as well. Ah, I went back and found the part where it says that dice become available after actions and tasks are resolved.
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Aug 23, 2015 05:20
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Can anyone comment on the River II expansion for Carcassonne? I've got Traders & Builders/Inns & Cathedrals, just wondering if the River adds anything worthwhile to the gameplay.
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Aug 23, 2015 05:37
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I don't think there's much of a difference between River I and II, but in general the river makes it much likelier there's going to be a big farm.
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Aug 23, 2015 05:47
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Xelkelvos posted:There are lots of little choices that can add up which is as satisfying as it is frustrating. With three players, it took us about 3.5 to 4 hours and there wasn't that much APing afaict. The minis quality is good too which is a plus. It is hard to catch up if you're put into a position where your grasp on planets is netting little resources though One thing that became more apparent after a game or two for us was that all factions need to be moving around a lot and that you can lose the game if you spend too much time turtling/building up. Even space marines, seemingly the most defensive race, really need to be aggressively seizing key positions (which they typically can hold for the rest of the turn). Often you can't easily effectively defend and attack regions in the same turn so you need to be cool with letting a valuable planet go and assume you can seize another one instead to make up the resource deficiency. The game tends to be pretty good about catch ups as it's hard to hold on to lots of planets with limited numbers of units and the low number of turns/movement actions really disincentivises defending them anyway.
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Aug 23, 2015 06:08
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Played Dark Moon twice. Blah. That is not the BSG experience you are looking for. I actually think the shortened play time hurts it.
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Aug 23, 2015 06:17
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Millions posted:Can anyone comment on the River II expansion for Carcassonne? I've got Traders & Builders/Inns & Cathedrals, just wondering if the River adds anything worthwhile to the gameplay. River 2 adds in a fork at some point, so there's two river terminus points. Might help break up the usual giant farm issue with base river.
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Aug 23, 2015 06:25
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Blamestorm posted:One thing that became more apparent after a game or two for us was that all factions need to be moving around a lot and that you can lose the game if you spend too much time turtling/building up. Even space marines, seemingly the most defensive race, really need to be aggressively seizing key positions (which they typically can hold for the rest of the turn). Often you can't easily effectively defend and attack regions in the same turn so you need to be cool with letting a valuable planet go and assume you can seize another one instead to make up the resource deficiency. The game tends to be pretty good about catch ups as it's hard to hold on to lots of planets with limited numbers of units and the low number of turns/movement actions really disincentivises defending them anyway. Agreed. I became too attached to my little corner of space early on and it cost me the game. Seize VPs where you can and build a new life for yourself among the stars. It also took me a while to understand just how limiting two Advance orders really is. With only 8 turns and objectives far away, you need to be in position a couple turns ahead or you're likely not grabbing it.
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Aug 23, 2015 06:35
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The Mantis posted:Agreed. I became too attached to my little corner of space early on and it cost me the game. Seize VPs where you can and build a new life for yourself among the stars. It also took me a while to understand just how limiting two Advance orders really is. With only 8 turns and objectives far away, you need to be in position a couple turns ahead or you're likely not grabbing it. The way vps are spread throughout space is one of the best elements of the design. It disincentivises overcommitting against one specific enemy, and forces you to focus on fighting a mobile war.
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Aug 23, 2015 06:39
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The End posted:The way vps are spread throughout space is one of the best elements of the design. It disincentivises overcommitting against one specific enemy, and forces you to focus on fighting a mobile war. Yep. As Orks I spent a solid 3 turns dicking around in Eldar territory because of ~war~ before I realized "oh poo poo all my objectives are over there.." Have you done the custom map set up yet? We want to but don't think we know the game well enough not to butcher it.
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Aug 23, 2015 06:48
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The Mantis posted:Yep. As Orks I spent a solid 3 turns dicking around in Eldar territory because of ~war~ before I realized "oh poo poo all my objectives are over there.." Not yet, hoping to give it a go next play through - depends on the newbie count really :P
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Aug 23, 2015 07:06
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Cocks Cable posted:Played Dark Moon twice. Blah. That is not the BSG experience you are looking for. I actually think the shortened play time hurts it. As someone who plans on playing this for the first time on Tuesday please make me second-guess my purchase, i.e. please go into detail about your play experience if you don't mind.
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Aug 23, 2015 07:55
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Kai Tave posted:As someone who plans on playing this for the first time on Tuesday please make me second-guess my purchase, i.e. please go into detail about your play experience if you don't mind. Sure! While it's fresh in my memory...I played two games, one 6-player game as a good guy and one 5-player game as a bad guy. I ended up winning both games but despite that, it didn't wow me and that seemed like the case for everyone else too. The most fun part of this game was trying to guess the equivalent BSG mechanic (oh that's just like the engine room and that's like a destination card). Imagine if every character was Roslin (with out the drawback) and could always XO. Every crisis has +1 Jump Prep as part of it's pass condition. The game is locked to 4 jumps long BUT the jump prep required to advance is variable (and can be as little as 2). I was the starting player in one game and the entire game was half way over before I got a 2nd turn. The whole dice instead of cards is pretty terrible. Each die is 4 out of 6 sides negative and 2 out of 6 sides positive. It turns every crisis skill checks into a glorified press your luck game. You roll your dice and HAVE to submit at least one. You can submit more if you roll well. If you roll badly, you have to hurt the check. And you can keep rolling so long as you have dice left. So sometimes, both humans and cylons, end up hurting their respective teams. I don't like this over BSG's card system because hand management brings a meatier and more satisfying breadth of choices. You are more in control and have to make more interesting decisions about saving cards for later or saving them for their cool effects. The crisis deck throws free loyalty checks and admiral quarters at you every so often. All players draw 2 and pick 1 crisis at the end of their turn, so the loyalty check crisis is a super easy softball one to do. Part of the problem is loyalty checks are designed backwards. You ask to check someone's loyalty. If they agree, you can check their card and you pass the crisis (and get your free jump prep!). A human has no incentive to say no. The free brig attempts that come up make it harder for the cylons because it's hard to stay hidden for long and in conjunction with the loyalty checks, you can get nailed pretty fast. The brig votes don't even cost dice and are simple majority (unlike BSG where you have to spend cards and the cylons can fight back to a degree). Of the 3 damageable systems (basically the BSG equivalent of your resources and Galactica damage tokens), one is obviously the best to attack and has a snowball effect the more it gets damaged. This is the life support system and its BSG equivalent is Sickbay. When your character gets fatigued, you can't help as much on skill checks and you look access to your special ability. You're also a poor XO target. Unlike BSG where you want to XO people in Sickbay to get out, here you have no such incentive. You may be the guy with the special ability to fix the shields better, but you're fatigued so you what's the point of XO'ing you? I was an infected and got fatigued early so despite being the optimal guy to repair the damage to the shields, I have no real leverage to fish for an XO. I think the optimal play for the bad guys is to reveal on the first XO you get. If you're fatigued or quarantined, you should just reveal at first chance. There did not feel like there was much time to waste on playing the "undercover cylon" as the game can shoot by real quick. And this is where the game length is probably a detriment. Hanging around gives the humans jump prep and ends the game quicker. As a cylon you want the game to move slower. And your only real sabotage options are bluffing die rolls. Not very satisfying. And I never felt any palpable paranoia. I can't think of a single thing this game did better than BSG other than it's shorter. It doesn't do the paranoia or satisfying scum hunt any better. The strategy decision elements are far more constrained. And it's definitely no better in terms of swingy  luck (it's probably worse).
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Aug 23, 2015 08:56
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I have to admit, as someone who's never played or had any interest in playing BSG about half of that went right over my head. There are a number of optional rules that come suggested in the manual and I don't know if those would address your issues or not. I only bring this up because your comment about votes not costing dice reminded me since I recall one of the variants is to make voting cost you dice instead of simply revealing them.
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Aug 23, 2015 09:01
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Sorry, I only speak BSG. I dunno how else to explain the game. It's like Diet BSG made with the worst artificial sweetner possible. I saw the list of variants in the back of the manual. And while I appreciate a suggested list of variants, I feel like the base game should be in the ball park of fun and balanced as is. It was not. So I don't have much desire trying to "fix" the game when I'd rather just play BSG instead or a better tried and true hidden traitor game of shorter length if I don't have the time for BSG.
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Aug 23, 2015 09:07
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The Mantis posted:Forbidden Stars trip report -- Round 2 Forbidden Stars stuff I got my first game of this in yesterday. We all had a really good time and are looking forward to another game. I think it took four and a half hours for a 4 player newbie game (it's hard to say as we took a break just after the mid-point). One player has fairly bad AP, so every one of his combats was taking at least ten minutes (he couldn't assign damage until he'd looked at all of his combat cards and planned how he'd play them, you'd frequently come back round to him and he'd been staring into his combat cards, etc.). I think he'll get better on another play though, so long as he keeps the same faction. It has made me glad that the planned 6 player TI3 he was pencilled in for fell through though. The issue is that a long 4-player game doesn't work too well for my groups. We tend to get 6-8, and while we merrily split, having one side of the room play a single game preventing player rotation is a bit blah. Yesterday was a specific "Let's play Forbidden Stars and I'm being very selective with my invites so we don't end up with too many". That said, I think it could actually have some legs as a two player game. Despite an explicit warning, two of the players were committing to holding all planets for a big pointless war and put themselves at a real disadvantage in the mid-game. Impressively, one of them brought it back and could have seized two objectives and won in the final round if he'd not screwed up a deployment order. There was also some excellent play by the others where the bulk of my military got hedged in by three warpstorms preventing me from getting near my fourth objective in the final round. One player did feel that it felt a bit kingmake-y, although I wonder if that is just because he gave up a little easily. The factions all seem very different which is welcome. Orks can do that terrifying thing where they drop a factory and then units as well as just having really meaty combat cards (in terms of guns more than the powers). Chaos just spawn cultists at every opportunity, even during combat, and then get bonuses like cheap or free units from having cultists that makes them effectively impossible to wipe out. Eldar have lots of very specific movement tricks that, as the Eldar player, I really didn't make the best use of. And Space Marines just need to hold on in combat to claim morale victories and push their way along without specifically needing to kill enemy units (and then slapping down their special bastion-factories along the way to keep numbers topped up). Map building seems intimidating, and time-consuming, at the moment. So I think we'll be hanging on with the default layout. I'm curious if the inevitable expansion will be alternative sub-factions (other marine chapters, craftworlds, etc.) or Tyranids and Necrons. The former doesn't need new plastic, but would be a bit more limited in what they could change, while the latter has all sorts of scope (like for a faction that don't use structures, and one that has a different type of objective)
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Aug 23, 2015 09:08
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Mojo Jojo posted:Forbidden Stars stuff We didn't really gently caress with order upgrade cards but going back and looking at them... holy poo poo. I was Ork and totally ignored the factory -> unit card. Huge mistake. Can you have multiple order upgrade cards active? We just ignored them and spent our time gently reminding Dr. Thinksalot to hurry the gently caress up. Mojo Jojo posted:I'm curious if the inevitable expansion will be alternative sub-factions (other marine chapters, craftworlds, etc.) or Tyranids and Necrons. The former doesn't need new plastic, but would be a bit more limited in what they could change, while the latter has all sorts of scope (like for a faction that don't use structures, and one that has a different type of objective) I would snap buy any expansion. DE raiders flying around puking out infantry? IG armored battalions rolling to their doom? Tau tech dancing around and kissing each-other. Tyranid bugs everywhere? FFG loves plastic (and its accompanying marks ups) so I'm sure we'll see new units. Based on the core set, each new faction would need a home system card -- which would actually be great. Maybe two 2-sided system cards with some faction specific theming? The Mantis fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Aug 23, 2015 |
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Aug 23, 2015 09:23
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The Mantis posted:We didn't really gently caress with order upgrade cards but going back and looking at them... holy poo poo. I was Ork and totally ignored the factory -> unit card. Huge mistake. Can you have multiple order upgrade cards active? We just ignored them and spent our time gently reminding Dr. Thinksalot to hurry the gently caress up. Yeah, you were playing really sub-optimally. Order upgrades are the meat of the game for most of the factions (they seemed less important for Eldar). You buy them all they are all active all the time ( a few are once per round). Chaos can ignore warpstorms, Marines can shoot out men too invade after they finish an orbital strike, the list goes on quote:gently caress I would buy the poo poo out of any expansion. DE raiders flying around puking out infantry? IG armored battalions rolling to their doom? Tau tech dancing around and kissing each-other. Tyranid bugs everywhere? I guess an expansion would include extra systems regardless. It seems a pretty easy thing to give more variety (you could also have a few that didn't break into four sub-tiles for special things). That and if they did add entirely new factions, they could make the game support five players (and take as long as a game of TI3!) It probably bodes well that we're both thinking about expansions after only a couple of combined plays. Hopefully it'll be better than the damp squib that arrived for Chaos in the Old World.
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Aug 23, 2015 09:30
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Mojo Jojo posted:I guess an expansion would include extra systems regardless. It seems a pretty easy thing to give more variety (you could also have a few that didn't break into four sub-tiles for special things). That and if they did add entirely new factions, they could make the game support five players (and take as long as a game of TI3!) lord help us
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Aug 23, 2015 09:33
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Everyone shits on The Horned Rat but really the base CitOW is pretty tight and there isn't much scope for expansion. I think they did pretty well to add another faction that functions so differently from the others to allow 5 players. You can however complain about the upgrade card changes all you like, but at the end of the day I feel if everyone at the table knows the game everyone still has a chance to win. The new Old World cards are alright too.
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Aug 23, 2015 09:34
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A five player game couldn't actually fit on my table. We were pushed for space as it was. Thinking back, the AP guy had a really messy play area. I wonder if forcing him to keep it arranged like the rule book says would help
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Aug 23, 2015 09:36
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The custom map layout in FS is really interesting and doesn't take that long. While I don't think you can easily completely screw yourself things like the availability (or lack of) of forge tokens can have a big impact on how the game plays out for different players. I feel it is most important for Eldar to plan carefully during map layout because they benefit most from having lots of void and as few adjacent planets as possible, particularly near their home system. Everyone probably wants planets adjacent to their objectives that they can get early control of as it makes it far easier - the naval stuff can complicate moving around hugely because of the one fight per order rule (with some notable exceptions due to upgrades, particularly Eldar - I feel like map set up is such a huge deal for them because of their naval focus).
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Aug 23, 2015 09:58
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Blamestorm posted:The custom map layout in FS is really interesting and doesn't take that long. While I don't think you can easily completely screw yourself things like the availability (or lack of) of forge tokens can have a big impact on how the game plays out for different players. I feel it is most important for Eldar to plan carefully during map layout because they benefit most from having lots of void and as few adjacent planets as possible, particularly near their home system. Everyone probably wants planets adjacent to their objectives that they can get early control of as it makes it far easier - the naval stuff can complicate moving around hugely because of the one fight per order rule (with some notable exceptions due to upgrades, particularly Eldar - I feel like map set up is such a huge deal for them because of their naval focus). One fight per advance? Well we missed that. Actually, other questions -If an effect lets me retreat one of my units, do is become routed in the process? -Can ships really move from one void in one system to another void in another system? So I can jump over enemy ships?
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Aug 23, 2015 10:09
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Mojo Jojo posted:One fight per advance? Well we missed that. yes (apparently!) and yes. The Mantis fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Aug 23, 2015 |
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Aug 23, 2015 10:35
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Mojo Jojo posted:One fight per advance? Well we missed that. Actually I think it's yes and yes. As per the rules reference under both retreats and routed units it states retreating=routs units. There are move effects from cards which are functionally differentiated by routing the units and the restrictions on where retreated units can go. Now that you know you (generally) can only fight once per advance your games might speed up. 
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Aug 23, 2015 12:31
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Blamestorm posted:Actually I think it's yes and yes. As per the rules reference under both retreats and routed units it states retreating=routs units. There are move effects from cards which are functionally differentiated by routing the units and the restrictions on where retreated units can go. It only happened two or three times, so it's not going to save us much time. I think with the same group and the same rules errors we'd be able to shave up to an hour off a game. From reading around 4-5 seems standard for a first game just by virtue of all the choices.
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Aug 23, 2015 12:55
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Cocks Cable posted:Sorry, I only speak BSG. I dunno how else to explain the game. It's like Diet BSG made with the worst artificial sweetner possible. As someone who traded away his copy of BSG, I am going to disagree with this statement. I got rid of BSG because the game took way too long, I hate the decision process, and was fiddly as all hell. I had too many negative experiences with BSG and honestly do not understand why it is so popular. First, we had a few negative experiences where a traitor would make a crucial mistake and be discovered nearly immediately, then they had to sit there for a couple hours knowing that they hosed up and can not recover. This is an essential flaw that occurs in traitor games. With the exception of BSG's awful and unnecessary 'sympathizer' card, there is a permanent binary status of 'loyal' and 'traitor'. As a traitor, your power comes from the paranoia you sow through your actions and tablet talk. Once you are discovered, this power is permanently taken away and the game becomes another source of self loathing I'm sure none of us needs. Thoughts of 'poo poo why did I do that of course it was dumb I'm an idiot and now I'm stuck in this diminished overseer role gently caress this poo poo' will run though your mind for the rest of the game and into the night. In Dark Moon, this is less of an issue for numerous reasons. First and most obvious is the playtime. It's length of less than half of BSG makes it instantly less of a sting when the traitor fucks up. Secondly, the hopelessness of the dice mean that everyone is going to fail eventually. This makes submitting a negative dice an inevitability for all players. The 'push your luck' game, in any other context, usually makes for a lovely game. But the traitor aspect and hidden rolls turn this around, in my opinion. Tabletalk like "aw poo poo best I got is a -1 should I try for a positive? I'm going to try for a positive aw poo poo best is -2" happens both earnestly with loyal players and unhonestly with traitors. This is great! The only difference between the loyal and traitor in these circumstances is paranoia. In this case, less decisions is a good thing. It becomes less of a logic problem and more of a 'look at that dude's face that is the face of a liar'. I wholeheartedly like the dice more than the cards. This leads to the second thing I dislike about BSG: the decision system of everyone submitting a card, shuffling the cards, and seeing if anyone tanked it. I call this the 'closed' system. This is in opposition to an 'open' system like Dark Moon, where if you are going to gently caress things up, everyone can see. I hate closed systems. I am going to accent this opinion with the story of the last game of Avalon I have played. It was 7 players. Every failed mission turned the game into a fit of discussion over who logically could be the bad guy. 'This guy could be it because it failed when he was on it but it passed when this dude was on it but he could have passed it to cover his tracks but this other guy voted him on so...' Jesus Christ it was awful. This is all assuming perfectly logical players. We are not in a riddle. loving move on Holy poo poo that game sucked. I've had similar experiences with BSG which is why I bring it up here. In dark moon, for better or worse, this is less likely to happen because luck is aways a major role. She could have just pulled two lovely cards and picked the lesser of two evils, or is a traitor. He could have rolled lovely or he could be a traitor. The game boils away the mythological logic puzzle of the game and replaces it with paranoia. Catching someone in a lie and debating how many gently caress ups is too many gently caress ups becomes the key discussions. Some people who embrace the madness of trying to puzzle out the traitor will hate this. But ultimately, I think it makes for a better experience. Getting back to the point I rambled away from, this luck element makes unintentionally exposing yourself much harder, which I much prefer. The game isn't about who broke poo poo which is black and white, but who keeps on breaking poo poo on purpose which is pretty grey. One final thing that I like about the dice is the 'strong dice' and 'weak dice'. At first, new players will aways grab as many strong dice as they can until someone accuses them of being a filthy hoarder and not leaving strong dice for the rest of the loyals. Those selfish assholes. I also disagree with the strategy tips presented earlier. The ideal time to reveal as the traitor, from what I've seen, is when someone puts down a challenge you can tank and potentially win the game with. If you are in quarantine, depending on the circumstances you'll want to reveal, but if there is a fair amount of uncertainty over your guilt, you might want to wait until the next time someone fucks up and see if you can sway the popular opinion in your favor. Being undercover is aways better than being revealed, to the extent that it is almost impossible to win as the traitor with all of them revealed. The ability to choose a bad quest and tank it late in the game is so drat powerful that you want to keep that possibility open. I also disagree that the life support is the obvious worst. Limiting actions through damaged stations, depending on the game, can be crippling. We recently played a game where the infected tanked three quests in a row because the 'call a vote' station was broken. That is something that you want to avoid. You also want to be able to repair things. As far as I can tell, the 'lone wolf' station is the most useless one since no one did that. Hitting two birds with one stone with the shields is also really bad late in the game. In short, Dark Moon is for people who didn't like BSG for numerous reasons. If you really like the logic puzzle aspect of 'closed decision' systems like Avalon or BSG, you'll not like Dark Moon. I think that if you are someone who loves BSG, you keep on playing BSG because I can almost guarantee that you'll not like Dark Moon. But if you dislike BSG, give Dark Moon a look. If you hate the Avalon or BSG decision systems as much as I do, like to keep your games on the shorter side, and want to accuse your friends of trying to kill us all, you'll love Dark Moon.
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Aug 23, 2015 14:14
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I like Dark Moon a lot, but I do think it's balance is wonky and you will die a lot, regardless of how the infected play. The game is designed for you to fail, and the infected are a bit too strong on top of that, leading to lots of dead people in space.
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Aug 23, 2015 16:13
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Rusty Kettle posted:... Thanks for this! I'd been on the fence about picking up a copy, but largely because my group love Avalon and BSG. I was unsure whether another hidden traitor game was needed at all, but from this it sounds like it would be entirely surplus to requirements for me.
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Aug 23, 2015 16:27
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I like Dark Moon and BSG. My group on the other hand, does not like BSG. Mostly because of the length and complexity and like was mentioned, if you mess up you have to spend the rest of the game regretting it. Dark Moon does seem a little bit short, but that's probably just because I enjoy long games like BSG. Mostly I just can't get BSG to the table because 1 or 2 of our players hate it. They like Dark Moon, so that's a big plus in my book. Games you can actually get people to play are better than (better?) games you can't get them to play. I would say all of the systems are pretty equal in threat. The shields have no impact on the players directly, but they're the easiest ones to sabotage for that reason. Plus you have to test the shields most of the time and failure ends up damaging another system. So don't ignore the shields. I like Life Support since it's one that can keep the Infected under control as well. We had a game where the Infected player started out fatigued first thing and didn't get a chance to repair it, so he was limited to one die roll each crisis. He had to put in positive on a few just because that's what he rolled and he had to submit one and only one die.
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Aug 23, 2015 16:37
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Just played Last Will again for the first time in a while. Fun times, and I finally managed a victory with my "no real estate" strategy.
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Aug 23, 2015 17:54
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Aug 23, 2015 18:52
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QnoisX posted:We had a game where the Infected player started out fatigued first thing and didn't get a chance to repair it, so he was limited to one die roll each crisis. He had to put in positive on a few just because that's what he rolled and he had to submit one and only one die. This is exactly what I hate about it. You have to declare you are playing into a check BEFORE you roll die. Then you roll a die and are stuck with submitting at least one. The central mechanic of the game is essentially "Did you roll well?" Help and Sabotage is now entirely luck based. Generating paranoia and mistrust is now entirely luck based. And ultimately there really isn't much there to argue, bluff, and agonize over. While playing it, I was reminded of my masochistic experiences with Fortune and Glory. Dark Moon is great for people who like dice games. I will give it that. But as a short traitor game, Resistance and ONW do a better job of distilling the experience.
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Aug 23, 2015 18:57
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I haven't played Dark Moon, so this is based on my memories of BSG Express. Declaring first and then rolling and having to submit negatives gives the Infected cover to roll and intentionally submit negatives.
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Aug 23, 2015 18:59
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From the "existential crisis" line of board games.
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Aug 23, 2015 19:10
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Some Numbers posted:I haven't played Dark Moon, so this is based on my memories of BSG Express. Yep. That is how it is in Dark Moon. But as an infected, you have to roll too. So you might not have the option to submit negative and you are forced to help. This happened a few times. Your options are based on how well you roll. Some people might like that kind of press your luck dice rolling style. I do not. I prefer a system where the randomization element occurs before hand and I know my contribution options ahead of time so as to feel a measure of control over the outcome of the skill check.
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Aug 23, 2015 19:14
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Magnetic North posted:Had to play Boss Monster tonight. Trip report: still sucks, continue to gently caress that game.
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Aug 23, 2015 19:15
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dishwasherlove posted:Everyone shits on The Horned Rat but really the base CitOW is pretty tight and there isn't much scope for expansion. I think they did pretty well to add another faction that functions so differently from the others to allow 5 players. You can however complain about the upgrade card changes all you like, but at the end of the day I feel if everyone at the table knows the game everyone still has a chance to win. The new Old World cards are alright too. The new Old World cards are awful. They mostly say "Are you playing Tzeentch? Welp, good game, thanks for playing." (The exception is the new Horned Rat OW card, which replaces a card already in the deck. That one is fine.) The Horned Rat is perfectly fine if you look at it as a faction pack. The Rat himself is a great addition to enable 5 player games. But the other add-ons range from wonky to fractured.
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Aug 23, 2015 19:23
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Dark Moon replaces the "I didn't do it" lie with a "I didn't do it on purpose" lie. The chance of a non-traitor causing a failure creates this. Dice-phobic people should obviously stay away, but how 'bad' the dice are relies on how easy it is for bad rolls to lose you the game. It is possible for a sting of bad luck to label you as a suspicious person, but that makes the game more interesting. In our experience, once the traitors are rooted out, the game is pretty drat easy. Losing the game without the traitor's influence is really hard.
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Aug 23, 2015 19:55
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