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Cythereal posted:And it's a shame, because Chaos has some pretty memorable leaders in the Dawn of War series. Eliphas, Araghast, and Neroth are all great, and a case can be made for Crull and the Soulstorm guy as dumb but at least entertainingly so who know they're cartoon villains. Yeah, they've made plenty of villains who were interesting or legitimately frightening. But for Abaddon they had to retcon the previous 12 Black Crusades so he wasn't such a failure he failed to get past the Cadian Gate 12 times. And the thing is, even his way of getting past it is lame! He's just summoning a bunch of demons to "Overload" them. gently caress that.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:36
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TheHoosier posted:I swear Chaos and Orks are the only ones with any personality in these games. Sure it gets kinda same-y after awhile but they aren't total blowhards like the Marines or aloof elves like the Eldar. Eh Gabriel Angelos is pretty drat awesome. It's more that Force Commander Hair-Gel is silent with nothing to recommend him and then they made Diomedes as generic as possible.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:41
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All the dawn of war games have had intresting chaos villains. Winter war probably least so since Crull main thing was hating Gorgutz and being even more over the top to Khorne than Bale from the original dawn of war.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:44
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Eimi posted:Eh Gabriel Angelos is pretty drat awesome. It's more that Force Commander Hair-Gel is silent with nothing to recommend him and then they made Diomedes as generic as possible. Avitus and Jonah were great. I can take or leave the rest of that squad, though.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:44
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I kind of like senile dreadnaught Thule. But yeah, Blood Ravens just wouldn't work without Sergeant Avitus.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:50
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I thought the DoW2 cast of marines was pretty alright, they were diverse and animated as a group but individually each person was mostly one-note.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:51
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regarding the black crusade campaign, the Ork players went "gently caress that, we're not helping chaos, we're having our own green krusade" and actually forced the writers to add the success of it to the next codex.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:51
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bunnyofdoom posted:regarding the black crusade campaign, the Ork players went "gently caress that, we're not helping chaos, we're having our own green krusade" and actually forced the writers to add the success of it to the next codex. GW keeps trying to make the Orks into Chaos's pets and minions in Fantasy and 40k both, and it never works. The Ork players loving hate it and never go along with it. It's one of the biggest things that hosed Chaos over in the Storm of Chaos campaign and led to the amazing moment where the Ork warboss punched out Archaon the Everbore and then dropped the mic and moonwalked off set. GW then retconned that and wrote Archaon easily killing that character later, in part of their failed attempts to make anyone give a poo poo about Archaon.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:53
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Cythereal posted:Avitus and Jonah were great. I can take or leave the rest of that squad, though. Cyrus survived Soulstorm. You have to respect that.  Only one I never really cared about was Thaddeus.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:56
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Night10194 posted:GW keeps trying to make the Orks into Chaos's pets and minions in Fantasy and 40k both, and it never works. The Ork players loving hate it and never go along with it. It's one of the biggest things that hosed Chaos over in the Storm of Chaos campaign and led to the amazing moment where the Ork warboss punched out Archaon the Everbore and then dropped the mic and moonwalked off set. I will say that the last big campaign (Medusa?) the Ork and Nurgle fought each other pretty hard in the fluff, so there's that
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Aug 24, 2015 19:58
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TheHoosier posted:I swear Chaos and Orks are the only ones with any personality in these games. Sure it gets kinda same-y after awhile but they aren't total blowhards like the Marines or aloof elves like the Eldar. The Imperial guard have personality. Mind you, it's basically "we're the must hosed group of redshirts in any fictional setting ever." but it still works under the proper writers. Just not when they're used to make Marines look more awesome.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:02
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Klaus88 posted:The Imperial guard have personality. Mind you, it's basically "we're the must hosed group of redshirts in any fictional setting ever." but it still works under the proper writers. Just not when they're used to make Marines look more awesome. poo poo the IG general you play as in Retribution is amazing. He hunts everything in the universe including Tyranids. When he got his arm bitten off he got a robot arm specifically so he can hold a massive sniper rifle one handed, letting him use a sword.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:04
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Speaking of great chaos characters. Smugness incarnated.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:10
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Poil posted:Speaking of great chaos characters. Smugness incarnated. Really, the big problem for Chaos is that the two headliner Chaos characters, Abbadon in 40k and Archaon in Fantasy, are terrible. Abbadon is at least an entertainingly stupid Cobra Commander type, Archaon is completely without personality. The problem for Abbadon is that they want him to be taken seriously.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:12
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Onmi posted:They've tried really hard to make Failbaddon threatening and none of the fans are buying it. Hilariously they ignore characters like Huron Blackheart who the players would accept as a chaos leader over Failbaddon. Yo, the OP is mostly a 40k noob, so please explain who these characters are and why they deserve their name being turned into a terrible meme.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:12
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Blind Sally posted:Yo, the OP is mostly a 40k noob, so please explain who these characters are and why they deserve their name being turned into a terrible meme. Abbadon the Despoiler is Chaos' big headline leader, the Warmaster of Chaos, and probably the clone-son of Horus, the original traitor. The reason he's called Failbaddon is because he's an idiot and fluff-wise he's failed many, many times to accomplish much until they retconned things a bunch to say 'Oh no, he just had smaller objectives each failed Crusade where he did what he wanted and then ran off! He's not a failure!' People don't really buy it.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:14
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Night10194 posted:Abbadon the Despoiler is Chaos' big headline leader, the Warmaster of Chaos, and probably the clone-son of Horus, the original traitor. The reason he's called Failbaddon is because he's an idiot and fluff-wise he's failed many, many times to accomplish much until they retconned things a bunch to say 'Oh no, he just had smaller objectives each failed Crusade where he did what he wanted and then ran off! He's not a failure!' More specifically Abbadon was Horus's second in command. Horus being the main primarch who turned against the Emperor, wounded him enough to leave the Emperor stuck in the Golden Throne before Big E ripped Horus out of the space time continuum. So with the void left Abbadon declares himself the heir to Horus and all the Chaos Space Marines. Also he has no arms. (The arms on his model are infamous for falling off all the drat time.) And bear in mind his small accomplished objective still ends with hundreds of thousands of Chaos marines dying, losing all their valuable equipment and experience. And Chaos is even more hosed than the Imperium when it comes to getting more CSM or gear, as its not like the current Chapters are eager to defect.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:21
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Cythereal posted:Avitus and Jonah were great. I can take or leave the rest of that squad, though. I really liked Cyrus as well, though Steve Blum voicing him was likely part of that. Still, he survived Soulstorm and called Boreale an idiot, so there's that going for him as well. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 20:25
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Eimi posted:poo poo the IG general you play as in Retribution is amazing. He hunts everything in the universe including Tyranids. When he got his arm bitten off he got a robot arm specifically so he can hold a massive sniper rifle one handed, letting him use a sword. He's also much smarter than he seems at first glance. Castor acts like an upper class twit, but he's the only guy in the game whose response to the Exterminatus was "Just as planned. Now. Let's sort this centuries old space marine why he's an idiot and we're not." I mean, he throws away thousands of lives, like a good Guard general, but he knows what he's doing when he does.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:29
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chiasaur11 posted:He's also much smarter than he seems at first glance. Castor acts like an upper class twit, but he's the only guy in the game whose response to the Exterminatus was "Just as planned. Now. Let's sort this centuries old space marine why he's an idiot and we're not." As Castor says, he may spend lives, but he doesn't waste them. Losing thousands of Guardsmen to prevent an entire sector falling is the definition of Good Trade.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:32
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Eimi posted:More specifically Abbadon was Horus's second in command. Horus being the main primarch who turned against the Emperor, wounded him enough to leave the Emperor stuck in the Golden Throne before Big E ripped Horus out of the space time continuum. So with the void left Abbadon declares himself the heir to Horus and all the Chaos Space Marines. Also he has no arms. (The arms on his model are infamous for falling off all the drat time.) And bear in mind his small accomplished objective still ends with hundreds of thousands of Chaos marines dying, losing all their valuable equipment and experience. And Chaos is even more hosed than the Imperium when it comes to getting more CSM or gear, as its not like the current Chapters are eager to defect. The writers like the black legion.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:48
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MonsterEnvy posted:Despite this the Black Legion is stated to still have a larger membership of chaos space Marines then the Sons of Horus in their prime, they are also stated to outnumber the second largest chaos warband the Word Bearers 10 to 1. And lastly they are stated to be they only chaos band that is growing instead of dwindling. This quote from Abaddon really sums him up. Horus was weak, Horus was a fool. He had the galaxy in the palm of his hand, and let it slip away. -Abaddon, who would go on to fail conquering less than a quarter of what Horus did over 12 consecutive campaigns.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:59
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In battlefleet gothic Abaddon the Despoiler has a special rule "You have failed me for the last time" which causes his ship to fire at one of his own ships that has failed rolls at least twice. He's basically Megatron.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:04
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Iretep posted:In battlefleet gothic Abaddon the Despoiler has a special rule "You have failed me for the last time" which causes his ship to fire at one of his own ships that has failed rolls at least twice. He's basically Megatron. Bear in mind with that rule that Abaddon's flagship is called the Planet Killer and lives up to the name. 
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Aug 24, 2015 21:05
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Iretep posted:In battlefleet gothic Abaddon the Despoiler has a special rule "You have failed me for the last time" which causes his ship to fire at one of his own ships that has failed rolls at least twice. He's basically Megatron. If his own ship failed enough he'd shoot his own ship, fluffed as him telling his terminator bodyguard to start killing crew and not stop. His massive super battleship was also taken out by a couple bog standard Imperial cruisers because he said he was too powerful to need an escort, and they just sat behind him shooting him with torpedoes while he screamed in impotent rage. Abbadon is not a clever man.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:06
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And on top of this Abbadon's model sucked and his arms would break off at a moments notice CONSTANTLY leading to a usually armless man running around the tabletop(Thus failbaddon the armless) who was mostly useless unless he made it to melee range(To his credit the only time he is EVER actually scary is on the table top when he's within charging distance of your men because those men/tanks/whatever were pretty much dead the moment he hit melee range.) and ruining any amount of dread he had. But yes he has led THIRTEEN black crusades where he united all of Chaos under his banner to take the fight to the emperor's finest. He failed 12 of them without ever leaving Cadia I'm pretty sure*the FIRST goddamn planet in his path of destruction*. He finally sort of succeeded for the thirteenth. He's now actually STANDING on Cadia in a prolonged fight against rapidly falling back enemies and trying to break the thing slowing his forces down by just summoning a bunch of poo poo through it until it stops working. But this STILL took 13 attempts of uniting EVERYBODY, and note many of these people he's uniting can take out whole systems so long as he's not in charge of them....and usually with SIGNIFICANTLY fewer numbers. And then they had to retcon all the black crusades to say anything happened at all and instead had him wreck every planet except the one he had actually aimed at all the times because 'guys....stop making fun of him....he's really scary I promise.' and really just made players turn on him MORE then before because they had to rewrite history to have made him succeed at ANYTHING ever.(Not other people have had black crusades and done WELL. At least two whole space marine chapters have been wiped out by other black crusades. Abaddon loses to ONE usually much less if they decide to team up against him.) The only SOMEWHAT decent idea for something he might have accomplished*prior to retcons* with his FIRST black crusade was weakening every other force in Chaos while holding back himself so that he DID have the most powerful force and people couldn't stand up to him.....this still means he got vast amounts of his extremely limited supply of Chaos Space Marines killed along with all of the basically entirely expendable daemonic troops.(There are ALWAYS more daemons.)
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Aug 24, 2015 21:06
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40k threads and such are always magical because of all the lore dumps. I've been following this closely and reading all the ridiculous stuff GW and authors make.  When I played eons ago, I played Eldar since that was the only army no one played at the store. It was... okay. I tried to be fancy and use the Craftworld Eldar book to make an army primarily of Aspect Warriors... then the edition changed and I was left without a fieldable army. Oops.  That was about when I realized that Warhammer was a bit scam and got out of the game. Not that I really had the energy anymore to play those long-rear end games, that I can't take a break from. DoW is so much better for me and my wallet. I've only beaten campaign in Dark Crusade and Soulstorm once or twice, but it's still a lot of fun. Haven't tried DoW2 yet, though I own all the games thanks to Steam and its sales.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:07
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Iretep posted:In battlefleet gothic Abaddon the Despoiler has a special rule "You have failed me for the last time" which causes his ship to fire at one of his own ships that has failed rolls at least twice. He's basically Megatron. Night10194 posted:If his own ship failed enough he'd shoot his own ship, fluffed as him telling his terminator bodyguard to start killing crew and not stop. SkyTalon2314 posted:Haven't tried DoW2 yet, though I own all the games thanks to Steam and its sales.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:21
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I'd love to see Relic's take on a Slaanesh Chaos Commander / villain. In all it's hammy glory. Can't really see them pulling off Nurgle in an entertaining way, but it would be... uh, interesting I'm sure. But no, it's just Undivided/Khorne & (Tzeentch in the corner) all the time
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Aug 24, 2015 21:26
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Uh dawn of war 2 is filled with nurgle.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:28
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SkyTalon2314 posted:When I played eons ago, I played Eldar since that was the only army no one played at the store. It was... okay. I tried to be fancy and use the Craftworld Eldar book to make an army primarily of Aspect Warriors... then the edition changed and I was left without a fieldable army. Oops. Same, with Dark Angels. It was interesting watching them get punted from one writer to another with no clear concept of what the chapter's overall themes were. I think when I stopped playing the "Codex" was a supplement in White Dwarf, and their current characterization was "like normal Space Marines, but with white robes, funny names, secrecy, and a little bit of racism", which I don't think was intentional in skirting uncomfortably close to the KKK, but never should have made it past whatever passes for an editor at GW.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:39
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Dead Reckoning posted:Same, with Dark Angels. It was interesting watching them get punted from one writer to another with no clear concept of what the chapter's overall themes were. I think when I stopped playing the "Codex" was a supplement in White Dwarf, and their current characterization was "like normal Space Marines, but with white robes, funny names, secrecy, and a little bit of racism", which I don't think was intentional in skirting uncomfortably close to the KKK, but never should have made it past whatever passes for an editor at GW. Age of Sigmar's big community thing has been titled the Age of Sigmar Stormfront and the new Sigmarines have double lightning bolts everywhere. Make of it what you will.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:40
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Pimpmust posted:I'd love to see Relic's take on a Slaanesh Chaos Commander / villain. In all it's hammy glory. Not happening thanks to the sex, drugs and rock n' roll aspect of Slaanesh. Mostly due to the sex part which unhinges puritanical Americans. There's a really funny strip from a Warhammer online fan webcomic that basically summarizes why Tzeentch got top billing for that game.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:40
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Pimpmust posted:I'd love to see Relic's take on a Slaanesh Chaos Commander / villain. In all it's hammy glory. Well they could always do the whole Doomrider route. (He does COCAINEEEEE) Though I'd prefer if they just steal from JoJo's and do the Pillar Men as a Slaaneshi villain. Really buff guys who are shirtless and posing all the time. It would be perfect. That or they could just emphasize Slaanesh's desire for perfection. You have someone who is a colossal narcissistic rear end in a top hat introduce them to Slaanesh who is also a colossal narcissistic rear end in a top hat with an army of sick fucks. So you have this perfect faced golden haired rear end in a top hat who is SO into themselves, and is a spoilt brat. So basically Joffery Baratheon. Also Fulgrim is described as being really pretty. And this is a line from the Horus Heresy books. 
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Aug 24, 2015 21:42
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TheHoosier posted:I swear Chaos and Orks are the only ones with any personality in these games. Sure it gets kinda same-y after awhile but they aren't total blowhards like the Marines or aloof elves like the Eldar. Eimi posted:Eh Gabriel Angelos is pretty drat awesome. It's more that Force Commander Hair-Gel is silent with nothing to recommend him and then they made Diomedes as generic as possible. Why not have both? Eimi posted:That or they could just emphasize Slaanesh's desire for perfection. You have someone who is a colossal narcissistic rear end in a top hat introduce them to Slaanesh who is also a colossal narcissistic rear end in a top hat with an army of sick fucks. So you have this perfect faced golden haired rear end in a top hat who is SO into themselves, and is a spoilt brat. Yeah, I keep wishing they went this route with Slaanesh. Obsession is another path they could take it, since the Prince of Pleasure is all about loving something enough to take it to extremes. Just look at the Black Crusade RPG- the Slaaneshi example character is such a gourmand, he starts out eating people, and at the end consumes himself. That's the kind of  we should expect from Slaanesh, not just "I do COCAAAAINE! And demon whores!"
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Aug 24, 2015 23:26
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A loyalist Araghast is zogging beautiful.
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Aug 24, 2015 23:40
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Orks are pretty good at annoying Chaos. By the way, that's the same Gorgutz as the one in this game. He's not the canonical winner of Winter Assault, but he did get the skull of that chaos dude on his boss pike. Chaos can actually get it back in this game if they defeat Gorgutz. e: I love how every other faction needs the titan to defeat the Necrons in the final mission of WA, but the Orks just smash them into a fine robo-paste without one. my dad fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 23:56
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Gorgutz is a loser bitch of an Ork who's not the canonical winner of anything ever, shameful
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Aug 25, 2015 00:22
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HerraS posted:Gorgutz is a loser bitch of an Ork who's not the canonical winner of anything ever, shameful Hey you take that back! Orkz never lose! If they die, they die fighting so it doesn't count, and if they retreat they can always come back for another go!
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Aug 25, 2015 00:28
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ShootaBoy posted:Hey you take that back! Orkz never lose! If they die, they die fighting so it doesn't count, and if they retreat they can always come back for another go! Grots and Squigs totally retreat though. Speaking of Squigs and GW's horrible story advancement skills, who else misses hair squigs?
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Aug 25, 2015 01:49
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