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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Songs are always the mistake in the dramatization. Some of the songs are kinda cheesy (I always cringe at the 'sing all ye people' one just before Aragorn is crowned), but I think they did a really good job of integrating the music with the story. In particular I love the way they combined singing and normal voice acting for the Pelennor fields and the death of Theoden. It might just be because I grew up with the BBC version, but for me it is the definitive dramatization. It captures the sense of an age that is coming to an end in a way that the movies completely fail at IMO.
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Aug 25, 2015 20:42
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spiderbot posted:Some of the songs are kinda cheesy (I always cringe at the 'sing all ye people' one just before Aragorn is crowned), but I think they did a really good job of integrating the music with the story. In particular I love the way they combined singing and normal voice acting for the Pelennor fields and the death of Theoden. True, those aren't bad, but in my opinion the way they cast them to music sort of obscured the structure of the poetry. Those songs were Tolkien nerding out doing straight-up Beowulf-style Anglo-Saxon alliterative verse, and trying to make it sound like a "song" the way we understand it feels like they just didn't really realize what they were working with.
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Aug 25, 2015 21:51
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Data Graham posted:True, those aren't bad, but in my opinion the way they cast them to music sort of obscured the structure of the poetry. Those songs were Tolkien nerding out doing straight-up Beowulf-style Anglo-Saxon alliterative verse, and trying to make it sound like a "song" the way we understand it feels like they just didn't really realize what they were working with. beowulf was meant to be sung
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Aug 25, 2015 22:11
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Smoking Crow posted:beowulf was meant to be sung Is there a well-done version of this with a modern English translation?
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Aug 25, 2015 22:41
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Ynglaur posted:Is there a well-done version of this with a modern English translation? Songs are usually lost in translation, it's like (well it literally is) poetry.
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Aug 26, 2015 00:22
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Yeah, and what I'm saying is that it's always seemed to me like however poems like Beowulf were meant to be sung, it can't have had much bearing on the kind of construction we normally think of as a "song" today, whether pop music on the radio or a faux-archaic performance in a BBC drama. For the alliteration to come through as the dominant feature of the verses (rather than, say, rhyming and consistent meter) would have meant a very different kind of delivery from what we're used to. Oh who am I kidding, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about
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Aug 26, 2015 01:43
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The way Old English poetry used alliteration is a type of rhyming. It is ancestral to other English poetry, after all.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:18
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Thanks for the responses: I hadn't really thought of those aspects. Is there a version sung in Old English? I wouldn't understand it, but it still might be fun to listen to.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:33
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Ynglaur posted:Thanks for the responses: I hadn't really thought of those aspects. Is there a version sung in Old English? I wouldn't understand it, but it still might be fun to listen to. http://www.bagbybeowulf.com/dvd/index.html 32+ dollars, alas. But here's a reading of a brief passage: http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/stella/readings/OE/BEOWULF.HTM
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Aug 26, 2015 03:15
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Effectronica posted:http://www.bagbybeowulf.com/dvd/index.html Bagby has a clip on YouTube from that performance and it's awesome, just to give you a sample of what a really dramatized reading can sound like
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Aug 27, 2015 21:32
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I haven't read The Children of Hurin yet (should I?), but I've been thinking about it going through the bits in Unfinished Tales. While from a world-building perspective there's nothing wrong with having the good guys eat poo poo, trying to put it in the framework of "Anglo-Fantasy Veggie Tales" raises a lot of questions. I guess it has something of a Job vibe to it, but Job also feels out of place in the JudeoChristian Literature.
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Sep 3, 2015 14:22
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SirPhoebos posted:I haven't read The Children of Hurin yet (should I?), but I've been thinking about it going through the bits in Unfinished Tales. While from a world-building perspective there's nothing wrong with having the good guys eat poo poo, trying to put it in the framework of "Anglo-Fantasy Veggie Tales" raises a lot of questions. I guess it has something of a Job vibe to it, but Job also feels out of place in the JudeoChristian Literature. You should definitely read it. The audiobook version is also great, it's read by Christopher Lee himself! It's not based on the Bible but on pagan sources, mainly on Kalevala's Kullervo poem, and also has elements from Oedipus and Volsung Saga. Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 14:57
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Yeah, it's basically a doomy Norse saga with added Dark-Lord-gonna-make-you-watch-while-your-family-gets-hosed-over.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:31
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The unfinished tales versions are good too. Glauurung is the best villain.
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Sep 3, 2015 17:32
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Swept through the first 50 pages of Children of Hurin this afternoon. It's so well written and such a joy to read. Considering all of his achievements it's easy to forget that Tolkien can just write really well. I get the style may not be for everyone but if you like it there's nothing quite like it.
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Nov 1, 2015 23:56
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100YrsofAttitude posted:Swept through the first 50 pages of Children of Hurin this afternoon. It's so well written and such a joy to read. Considering all of his achievements it's easy to forget that Tolkien can just write really well. I get the style may not be for everyone but if you like it there's nothing quite like it. I had a quick look at it, isn't basically an Icelandic saga?
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Nov 2, 2015 00:27
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It's inspired by the Kalevala. Kullervo specifically.
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Nov 2, 2015 00:28
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euphronius posted:It's inspired by the Kalevala. Kullervo specifically. Story-wise I understand, I was talking about the writing style.
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Nov 2, 2015 00:31
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There's like 4 or 5 versions of it so. I think the book that was published is just prose but there are alliterative verse versions as well.
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Nov 2, 2015 00:32
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The book's prose. It's sparse but direct. He's got his own voice and it show's well in Children of Hurin. It's just been a while since I've read his work and it's nice to come back to it.
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Nov 2, 2015 00:41
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Yeah; before I read it I really thought it's just shilling a story that's already in the Silmarillion for more money while the movies are still popular but it turned out surprisingly good.
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Nov 3, 2015 14:40
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anilEhilated posted:Yeah; before I read it I really thought it's just shilling a story that's already in the Silmarillion for more money while the movies are still popular but it turned out surprisingly good. It was, but it did.
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Nov 3, 2015 15:36
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I really want the full version of the Fall of Gondolin. Turgon is the best Noldor and Ulmo is the bro-est Valar. poo poo, can you imagine the scene where Tuor enters the empty city of Vinyamar, finds the emtpy armor elft for him ages ago and then Ulmo arrives to tell him of his destiny? Epic poo poo right there.
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Nov 4, 2015 08:40
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It'd also mean more Maeglin; I'm always cool with more Maeglin. For some reason traitors make for fascinating characters. I'm not sure if Tolkien wrote about that one in more detail, though; I know there's a fragment about Tuor entering Gondolin for the first time and passing through all the gates but that seems to be about it.
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Nov 4, 2015 11:37
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Yeah, characters that make stuff happen are interesting. That's why Fëanor is the most interesting character that Tolkien created.
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Nov 4, 2015 13:25
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Hogge Wild posted:Yeah, characters that make stuff happen are interesting. That's why F anor is the most interesting character that Tolkien created. Ahem: Galadriel. 
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Nov 4, 2015 13:35
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anilEhilated posted:It'd also mean more Maeglin; I'm always cool with more Maeglin. For some reason traitors make for fascinating characters. It was the fiest story Tolkien wrote, back when he was in the trenches. It's just quite outdated due to changes to the legendarium.
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Nov 4, 2015 14:01
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Read the version in the Book of Lost Tales it is awesome.
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Nov 4, 2015 14:32
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Ynglaur posted:Ahem: Galadriel. Galadriel doesn't really... do... much. :/
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Nov 4, 2015 14:43
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Another vote for Fëanor from me. That dude was a badass. I'd love a cinematic retelling of his story as long as it's closer to lotr than the hobbit in style.
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Nov 5, 2015 18:25
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I'd put a whole hour in to the taking of the Teleri ships. It's pretty much LOTR Pearl Harbour.
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Nov 6, 2015 15:15
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Catsplosion posted:Another vote for Fëanor from me. That dude was a badass. I'd love a cinematic retelling of his story as long as it's closer to lotr than the hobbit in style. Bruno Ganz as Fëanor.
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Nov 6, 2015 15:21
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I think Feanor is an annoying git.  I'm more of a Fingolfin fan.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aB6CPyO0Ww
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Nov 6, 2015 15:33
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my dad posted:I think Feanor is an annoying git. E: vvvv. I suppose. Both Maeglin and Maedhros are pretty cool to read about too. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 6, 2015 18:49
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Ravenfood posted:Feanor's incredibly interesting in part because he's, uh, very flawed, to be polite. Eh, he's just a selfish rear end in a top hat who happens to be really powerful and talented. Some of his sons have a lot more depth to them.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:03
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my dad posted:Eh, he's just a selfish rear end in a top hat who happens to be really powerful and talented. Some of his sons have a lot more depth to them. I like to think that the one of them managed to live through to the time of Lord of the Rings.
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Nov 7, 2015 06:20
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MonsieurChoc posted:I like to think that the one of them managed to live through to the time of Lord of the Rings. Nope, all dead. Feanor was lucky in that his curse consumed only one generation after his.
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Nov 7, 2015 16:28
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What a strange definition of "lucky" 
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Nov 7, 2015 18:16
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The same Curse was on Galadriel and only lifted when she refused the ring.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:29
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VanSandman posted:Nope, all dead. Feanor was lucky in that his curse consumed only one generation after his. Nah, at the end of the Silmarillion, one of them is still alive, his hands burned by the Simaril he threw into the sea, and he wanders off out of the story. Quick Google search tells me it's Maglor.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:56
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