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Splitting off the various non-Mandarin Han subgroups isn't really feasible in part because those groups have basically always been politically united for the last 2000 years, but I don't see how you can say Xinjiang and Tibet shouldn't be split with a straight face. That's not Russia and Tatarstan or Siberia, that's Russia and Estonia or Georgia or Tajikstan Mongolia and Manchuria are weird cases because Mongolia is basically uninhabited anyways outside of a short length of the Yellow River valley which is entirely Han, and Manchuria has been almost entirely ethnically cleansed by Han Chinese farmers, as opposed to Tibet/Xinjiang which haven't been (yet) icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Aug 25, 2015 |
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Aug 25, 2015 22:40
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Raenir Salazar posted:The people in Normandy and Langudoc would disagree. Europe is full of peoples that have been partially culturally assimilated like the Cantonese. Yes, Europe is full of partially culturally assimilated people, but to insinuate that it is not already broken up in comparison to China is pretty foolish.
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Aug 25, 2015 22:52
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Anyways I wonder how long it'll be before our DOW starts to properly rally again. And how much further China will fall as well.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:02
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icantfindaname posted:Splitting off the various non-Mandarin Han subgroups isn't really feasible in part because those groups have basically always been politically united for the last 2000 years, but I don't see how you can say Xinjiang and Tibet shouldn't be split with a straight face. That's not Russia and Tatarstan or Siberia, that's Russia and Estonia or Georgia or Tajikstan Water rights is a pretty good reason.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:07
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Well obviously the CCP isn't going to let their water supply go independent, but don't pretend there's any justification for it other than naked sociopathic imperialism
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Aug 25, 2015 23:12
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computer parts posted:Water rights is a pretty good reason. That's a reason, but not really a 'good' reason- not for the people who live there, anyway. Good enough for the Party, but at that rate pretty much any reason is good enough for an occupier who wants to find excuses to keep occupying.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:18
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icantfindaname posted:Well obviously the CCP isn't going to let their water supply go independent, but don't pretend there's any justification for it other than naked sociopathic imperialism I mean, I don't think any country would let that happen.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:23
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People need to stop picking on plucky little China and realize who the real culprits of China's economic woes are: foreign investors. First people tell China to be more transparent, and so when China becomes more transparent and it suddenly looks like an awful potemkin economy, selfish foreign investors withdraw their money! Hypocrites!
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Aug 25, 2015 23:37
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Zudgemud posted:Yes, Europe is full of partially culturally assimilated people, but to insinuate that it is not already broken up in comparison to China is pretty foolish. Okinawa? Hokkaido? The Inuit? Basques? The Natives in North and South America? The idea that you're saying China is the only country that should be broken up is also pretty foolish and yet all those other governments will hold those territorials with armed force just as much. computer parts posted:I mean, I don't think any country would let that happen. This. It's pretty much a masturbatory fantasy either way but don't pretend it's overwhelmingly something only China should do.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:39
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computer parts posted:Water rights is a pretty good reason. National defense is another.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:42
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Raenir Salazar posted:Okinawa? Hokkaido? The Inuit? Basques? The Natives in North and South America? The idea that you're saying China is the only country that should be broken up is also pretty foolish and yet all those other governments will hold those territorials with armed force just as much. "Might makes right" is generally considered not really a good justification for anything by liberal democratic standards? The only legitimate obstacle to national self-determination is the amount of ethnic cleansing required to do it. Hokkaido and Manchuria both would require shittons, but Okinawa and the Basques should probably be independent yeah. Natives in Latin America are another weird case because they're not necessarily strictly separated culturally from the people descended from Euro colonialists, and even then yes the languages should be protected Raenir Salazar posted:It's pretty much a masturbatory fantasy either way but don't pretend it's overwhelmingly something only China should do. It's not something only China should do, but China is the only country that has a legion of people jumping to its defense whenever its criticized for it. If you said that Basque Country or Catalonia or Scotland should be independent most people just nod their heads and say 'yeah sure', any time Tibet is mentioned you get people either outright saying China gets to do it because western imperialism or people saying might makes right and that liberal standards of genocide and ethnic cleansing being bad are for pussies icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Aug 25, 2015 |
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Aug 25, 2015 23:44
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Fojar38 posted:People need to stop picking on plucky little China and realize who the real culprits of China's economic woes are: foreign investors. Is it just recently that Bloomberg View has been full of clowns, because I feel like I've read about half a dozen nonsense articles from them in the past week or so.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:47
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icantfindaname posted:It's not something only China should do, but China is the only country that has a legion of people jumping to its defense whenever its criticized for it. If you said that Basque Country or Catalonia or Scotland should be independent most people just nod their heads and say 'yeah sure', any time Tibet is mentioned you get people either outright saying China gets to do it because western imperialism or people saying might makes right and that liberal standards of genocide and ethnic cleansing being bad are for pussies Seriously. Tibet is one of the easiest cases you can find for the ideal of self-determination, it's so bizarre to see someone say 'water rights' as if that meaningfully trumps a peoples right to self-rule. It could be a fantasy, I guess, although at times people said the same thing about all the countries absorbed by the USSR regaining their freedom too. I'd wager there was a time when a lot of people thought the English would occupy vast chunks of the Earth in perpetuity, too.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:57
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:Seriously. Tibet is one of the easiest cases you can find for the ideal of self-determination, it's so bizarre to see someone say 'water rights' as if that meaningfully trumps a peoples right to self-rule. In practice, it does. It doesn't matter if China is ruled by the CCP or the Nationalists or a carbon copy of the US (or a European nation of your choice), they'd all keep Tibet. The Basques are actually a better ideal of self-determination because they don't have strategic importance.
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Aug 26, 2015 00:01
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computer parts posted:It doesn't matter if China is ruled by the CCP or the Nationalists or a carbon copy of the US (or a European nation of your choice), they'd all keep Tibet. If that's how you're looking at it, then you don't even need to say anything about water rights, just say 'because whoever rules Beijing wills it.'
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Aug 26, 2015 00:14
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:If that's how you're looking at it, then you don't even need to say anything about water rights, just say 'because whoever rules Beijing wills it.' But that's not why. Again, there's a reason why I'm not using water rights to defend holding onto Xinjiang.
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Aug 26, 2015 00:16
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1949 borders are scared to Han Chinese at all levels, pretty any Chinese government would probably shoot every ethnic Tibetan and replace them with Han settlers than allowing so much as an inch of Tibet to secede from China
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Aug 26, 2015 00:25
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I was WAY off yesterday, but I'll re-enter mi prediction for today: +3.5% rally based on CCP money burning.
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Aug 26, 2015 00:45
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icantfindaname posted:Manchuria has been almost entirely ethnically cleansed by Han Chinese farmers This is not even remotely true. Like half the Manchurian population changed their names in the late 19th century. A lot of those Han ethnic cleansers are genetically identical to their Manchurian neighbors.
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Aug 26, 2015 01:13
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computer parts posted:But that's not why. Again, there's a reason why I'm not using water rights to defend holding onto Xinjiang. no see while ideology motivates actions ideology itself just springs fully formed from the aether like phlogiston or commodity value
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Aug 26, 2015 01:23
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Hey can all you turtledove cosplayers please gently caress off to the china thread 30 minutes till black Wednesday 
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Aug 26, 2015 01:28
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icantfindaname posted:Splitting off the various non-Mandarin Han subgroups isn't really feasible in part because those groups have basically always been politically united for the last 2000 years, but I don't see how you can say Xinjiang and Tibet shouldn't be split with a straight face. That's not Russia and Tatarstan or Siberia, that's Russia and Estonia or Georgia or Tajikstan Manchuria was actually very lightly settled before the mid 1800s because they were off limits to Han settlement. The Manchus themselves allowed Hans to migrate there in the mid-late 1800s because Russia annexed the Amur region and the Qing realized that without a large Chinese population the Russians can just walk in and take over the rest easily.
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Aug 26, 2015 01:34
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Cultural Imperial posted:Hey can all you turtledove cosplayers please gently caress off to the china thread Lock 'n Load motherfuckers. And get ready to free Tibet
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Aug 26, 2015 01:37
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10 minutes!
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Aug 26, 2015 01:50
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oh please another -6% right off the bat chaos must reign
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Aug 26, 2015 01:53
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I thought the Shanghai stocks didn't open for another 40 minutes? It's 8:50 where I am right now (EST) and the stocks opened last night at 9:30.
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Aug 26, 2015 01:55
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NEED TOILET PAPER posted:I thought the Shanghai stocks didn't open for another 40 minutes? It's 8:50 where I am right now (EST) and the stocks opened last night at 9:30. I assume they are talking about futures and pre-market trading, the proper show is in half an hour.
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Aug 26, 2015 01:59
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Arglebargle III posted:This is not even remotely true. Like half the Manchurian population changed their names in the late 19th century. A lot of those Han ethnic cleansers are genetically identical to their Manchurian neighbors. It's almost like ethnicity and genetic makeup aren't the same thing
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Aug 26, 2015 02:10
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Ah I also remember the great Ellis Island Genocides.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:17
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There's a question of coercion and guilt/blame w/r/t the Chinese-ification of Manchuria because China was run by Manchus at the time and they were the ones who actually implemented that policy, but no the end of the Manchu identity in its traditional homeland and its subsumption into a Han Chinese one most definitely counts as ethnic cleansing, sorry The comparison to America is especially funny because people immigrated willingly, and their home countries weren't affected by any change in identity to Americans. But considering the standard line in response to Chinese ethnic cleansing seems to be "but America did the Trail of Tears 200 years ago!!!!" I guess I'm not surpised icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 02:20
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I'm so glad we're having this conversation. Please go on.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:25
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Futures are up.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:31
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up 1%
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Aug 26, 2015 02:32
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I guess it's time to see if the easing is going to work, and how much money is going to be pumped in at the beginning of today.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:33
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Did they seriously cut rates and reserve requirements? We never loving learn.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:36
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aaaaand back under 0%
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Aug 26, 2015 02:36
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Fojar38 posted:up 1% lol not anymore
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Aug 26, 2015 02:36
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Back in the negatives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JUCfX1P1ik
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Aug 26, 2015 02:36
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:welp: There it goes!
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Aug 26, 2015 02:37
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oh boy the fall is picking up speed
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Aug 26, 2015 02:37
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