|
PerrineClostermann posted:One of these is correct. Both are. Some cruisers, like the Omaha and Cleveland, are too strong. Some cruisers, like the Furutaka, are too weak. Overall cruisers are in a pretty good place. Even the Cleveland just needs a nerf to chance to cause a fire to be very strong, but not overpowered, ship.
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 20:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 06:39 |
|
|
NTRabbit posted:No it isn't Hah! You must either be really bad at CVs, or encounter a lot of bad players with them. I'd guess about 75% of my high caliber and confederates come from my CVs. My average damage is 50-100% more than in BBs or CAs, win rate is over 60% on my CVs, and yeah... there's a reason they make more XP than any other ship class across the board. How the gently caress do you only get 1 to 2 torp hits per run with IJN CVs? That is laughably bad. What are you doing, dropping all 3 squads next to each other in one giant spread? You know you can have them drop from multiple angles, or even stack on top of each other right? RIGHT? Sounds like you are auto dropping... Either you don't know jack poo poo about carriers or just suck at the game. Edit: You averaged more damage in your Hosho than any other ship you have... what are you smoking? I'll give you this, bad CV players seem to be worse than bad other ship players. It's not uncommon for me to see lovely CVs on the bottom of the team XP chart. But I can't remember the last time I wasn't in the top 3 unless I got nuked by 2 CVs at the very start of a match. Even then, I'm usually getting 5+ torp hits before they got to me. Loan Dusty Road fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Aug 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:10
|
|
A carrier is not remotely capable of taking on and defeating a whole team, and I've only rarely seen them contribute to the team grossly more than any other ship, certainly never to the point of high calibre. There are plenty of ways to deal with carrriers, like how a large number of capital ships are so short and the torpedo spread so wide, that you can only guarantee 1 torpedo hit, 2 at the absolute most, from the Japanese squadrons on the Hosho and Zuiho. A Langley/Bogue/SC/Wyoming/New York sailing in a straight line can actually dodge 6 of the 8 torpedoes in a Hosho strike or 9 of 12 from a Zuiho, no matter how well you place them. It takes about 2-3 complete air strikes to sink a battleship, complete with flight time and reload time, which is plenty of time to do something about it. Trying to attack up tier leads to all the planes being shot down very rapidly too, by cruisers, battleships and even carrier AA - the New York in particular brutalises tier 4 and stock tier 5 bombers.
|
Uhhh...
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:11
|
|
|
Zero Gravitas posted:Uhhh... Minekazes really, *really* love BBs. It's natural. These things happen.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:14
|
|
|
Dustoph posted:How the gently caress do you only get 1 to 2 torp hits per run with IJN CVs? That is laughably bad. What are you doing, dropping all 3 squads next to each other in one giant spread? You know you can have them drop from multiple angles, or even stack on top of each other right? RIGHT? Sounds like you are auto dropping... Either you don't know jack poo poo about carriers or just suck at the game. Are you completely unfamiliar with torp spreads or what? Manual drop, stack the torpedoes on top of each other, and the spread between each torpedo is so wide that vessels with short hulls, ie all of the standard battleships, the Langley, the Bogue are so short that they can sit still and have the 1st and 4th torpedoes miss them by default, and only the 2nd and 3rd torpedo can hit, provided you line it up right. Make the ship move just a little, and it's ridiculously easy for torpedo 2 or 3 to slide right by, because the distance is too huge. It's a lot easier to hit with 4 torps from a US carrier drop, but then you only have the one squadron to do it with, so it evens out. Mean time, as soon as you hit tier 5 there is enough AA out on the water to render your air wings inert after about 3 strikes. My Hosho tended to lose about 4 bombers per attack against solitary New Yorks, I lose about 6-8 per attack run from my Zuiho that goes anywhere near a Cleveland or a New Mexico. I wonder what game you people are playing if you can't drive a battleship and avoid the majority of incoming damage from air dropped torpedoes, let alone something as agile as a Cruiser or Destroyer, because it's relatively straightforward to do, even with my lovely ping. Also, likely the only reason my CV damage is highest is because I can contribute in virtually every battle, as planes are fast; many battles, especially in my battleships, you tend to end up rolling the dice wrong and getting stuck on the side of the map with either nothing or only Destroyer, and virtually unhittable light cruisers to shoot at, and no time to get back somewhere better. Xae posted:Both are. Total garbage, Cruisers are fun and ridiculously unbalanced, particularly those with 6 inch guns. They utterly annihilate everything with HE spam - destroyers, battleships, carriers, carrier planes, even heavy cruisers need to get relatively lucky. They are the singular class most in need of a nerf. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Aug 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:28
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:Are you completely unfamiliar with torp spreads or what? Manual drop, stack the torpedoes on top of each other, and the spread between each torpedo is so wide that vessels with short hulls, ie all of the standard battleships, the Langley, the Bogue are so short that they can sit still and have the 1st and 4th torpedoes miss them by default, and only the 2nd and 3rd torpedo can hit, provided you line it up right. Make the ship move just a little, and it's ridiculously easy for torpedo 2 or 3 to slide right by, because the distance is too huge. I don't know what to tell you man. If you can only land 3 torps out of 3 squads, you should probably go practice on the NPC mode. Edit: News at 10, boats higher tier than you have an easier time stopping you. How about you talk about CVs attacking same tier boats and under? And you have a whopping 2 games in a tier 5 CV, why are you even talking? Loan Dusty Road fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Aug 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:37
|
|
|
Dustoph posted:I don't know what to tell you man. If you can only land 3 torps out of 3 squads, you should probably go practice on the NPC mode. If you can't successfully dodge and survive multiple air strikes in a battleship or cruiser, then I kindly suggest you do the same. My personal record was in my Wyoming, where I was able to survive two manual dropping Hoshos in my Wyoming through 6 full air strikes, by doing such complex operations as turning, changing speed, managing my repairs and requesting help from the solitary Langley fighter squadron. My Kuma has done better than that, but that thing whips around like a bendy Greyhound. Cruisers are indisputably the overwhelming bosses of tiers 3-6, while carriers at the same tier range from ok to underwhelming. e; tier 6 is where I got to in cbt, and since carriers have only been made worse since then, and they weren't close to overpowered in cbt, I don't see any possibility where they are in need of another nerf. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Aug 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:42
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:Are you completely unfamiliar with torp spreads or what? Manual drop, stack the torpedoes on top of each other, and the spread between each torpedo is so wide that vessels with short hulls, ie all of the standard battleships, the Langley, the Bogue are so short that they can sit still and have the 1st and 4th torpedoes miss them by default, and only the 2nd and 3rd torpedo can hit, provided you line it up right. Make the ship move just a little, and it's ridiculously easy for torpedo 2 or 3 to slide right by, because the distance is too huge. It's a lot easier to hit with 4 torps from a US carrier drop, but then you only have the one squadron to do it with, so it evens out. Pretty much exactly this. My Bogue is such a huge difference from my Langley it hurts.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:48
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:If you can't successfully dodge and survive multiple air strikes in a battleship or cruiser, then I kindly suggest you do the same. My personal record was in my Wyoming, where I was able to survive two manual dropping Hoshos in my Wyoming through 6 full air strikes, by doing such complex operations as turning, changing speed, managing my repairs and requesting help from the solitary Langley fighter squadron. I think you have a reading problem. There are a lot of bad CV players. I've dogged a poo poo ton of them myself. I'm saying when I play my CV, you wont be dodging them because there will literally be no way to when I drop 3 crossing patterns on you. Those types of CV players have killed me, and everyone else in this thread, and is why everyone bitches about them. Again, I do 50-100% more damage in my CVs than other boats, and I'm not bad at boats.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:49
|
|
|
Dustoph posted:I think you have a reading problem. There are a lot of bad CV players. I've dogged a poo poo ton of them myself. I'm saying when I play my CV, you wont be dodging them because there will literally be no way to when I drop 3 crossing patterns on you. Yeah, no, sorry, you have to get those planes into position to drop first, and I'm really not letting that happen before you lose a bunch of them to AA. either that or you're straight lining them in and committing early to avoid AA and fighters, and I'm dodging enough of them to matter anyway because the spread will only half catch me at best. The only way I'm getting caught with a whole spread is if I'm already hard over dodging a considerably more dangerous torpedo spread from a Destroyer, or zig zagging through a battleship salvo, etc. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Aug 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:51
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:Yeah, no, sorry, you have to get those planes into position to drop first, and I'm really not letting that happen before you lose a bunch of them to AA Yeah, because you are always going to have uptiered t6+ CAs to protect you? Because out of all the ships you currently have played, not a single one has AA that will stop a fully upgraded Zuiho. Not a single T5 ship has AA that can stop a Zuiho. New Yorks are one of the easiest targets at T5.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:55
|
|
|
Dustoph posted:Yeah, because you are always going to have uptiered t6+ CAs to protect you? Because out of all the ships you currently have played, not a single one has AA that will stop a fully upgraded Zuiho. Not a single T5 ship has AA that can stop a Zuiho. New Yorks are one of the easiest targets at T5. You must be seeing some pretty poo poo New York drivers then, because mine is pretty good at dodging and shooting down planes. The last carrier that gave it a serious thrashing was a Shokaku, and it ought to being a tier 8
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:You must be seeing some pretty poo poo New York drivers then, because mine is pretty good at dodging and shooting down planes. The last carrier that gave it a serious thrashing was a Shokaku, and it ought to being a tier 8 Man, everyone else in this thread is right, you really are a poo poo poster. Feel free to continue to ignore fact based statement and provide none of your own. I'm not too interested in your whopping 8 games in a New York as proof that CVs aren't extremely powerful. I am interested in stats like how CVs out damage all ships in the game. I'll stop arguing with you at this point, as everyone but you will agree with me on this.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 22:20
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:No it isn't yaay posted:here come three TB squads and one is already shifting to set up a cross Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Aug 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 22:23
|
|
|
Dustoph posted:I'll stop arguing with you at this point, as everyone but you will agree with me on this. If you read up a bit, you'll find that not everyone agrees with you. Probably because you're wrong. People whine all the time about arty in Tanks too, and they've always been just as wrong about that as well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 22:34
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:If you read up a bit, you'll find that not everyone agrees with you. Probably because you're wrong. I'm wrong that CVs out damage all ships and have a significant impact on the game? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 22:37
|
|
|
Dustoph posted:I'm wrong that CVs out damage all ships and have a significant impact on the game? You're wrong that they're overpowered, need nerfing or removing, or can take on an entire team on their own successfully, yes. Cruisers are the worst offenders, and have been since they changed fires and HE. They dominate ships of all classes, of the same tier and higher, with little effort.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 22:45
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:You're wrong that they're overpowered, need nerfing or removing, or can take on an entire team on their own successfully, yes. I see how this goes. Let me try using your style of argument, and abandon my fact based ones (which you have no rebuttal for). You're wrong, because I'm right.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 23:00
|
|
|
Look at those carriers performing worse than cruisers! Cruisers win more than battleships, but if you look really close you might see a reason why. It's not damage per game NTRabbit posted:People whine all the time about arty in Tanks too, and they've always been just as wrong about that as well. Oh well that explains it, you were playing everyone else like a fiddle! Just look at how those idiots responded when you were just saying things to get a rise out of people. edit just in case: NTRabbit posted:You're wrong that they're overpowered, need nerfing or removing, or can take on an entire team on their own successfully, yes. No There's no anime in the CV videos, just the channel description. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Aug 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 23:09
|
|
|
I'm very firmly convinced that NTRabbit is posting from the Bureau International des Poids et Mesures right next to the international prototype of the kilogram, where he serves as the official international standard unit of wrong.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 23:10
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:You're wrong that they're overpowered, need nerfing or removing, or can take on an entire team on their own successfully, yes. BBs like the Fuso tend to blow up ships like the Cleveland without much  . CVs can do bad things to Fusos. Unless they brought a friendly Cruiser with them. Which can be blown up easily by a BB. Which can be dealt a brutal killing blow by a DD. Which in turn will get shreded by a CA. WG really seems to love Rock-Paper-Rock.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 23:11
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:I'm very firmly convinced that NTRabbit is posting from the Bureau International des Poids et Mesures right next to the international prototype of the kilogram, where he serves as the official international standard unit of wrong.  I just like this game cause it lets me shoot botes and airplanes with cool explosions and stuff. Sure the balance needs tweaking, but it's still fun most of the time v  v
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 23:40
|
|
|
Ugh RNGesus giveth and he taketh away. Couldn't get a good game all day.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 23:57
|
|
|
TehKeen posted:
Basically this. While CVs are really obnoxious and make me sperg out and post walls of text about them, in the end the game is still fun and I'll find myself playing it. They really do need some nerfs though NO STOP HAZDOC YOU WERE DOING SO WELL xthetenth posted:I'm very firmly convinced that NTRabbit is posting from the Bureau International des Poi
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 00:05
|
|
|
I just can't get over how they must have started desiging this game with 3-4 years of experience with tanks under their belt and we still managed to end up with something more broken and stupid than artillery. The only place where WG's competence shows is how they managed to tweak the economy to make the grind to give out the least possible amount without having people getting pissed and quitting over it (yet). Increasing the raw number of credits awarded, but waiting a few tiers to put ship and module costs through the roof was clever. And by clever I mean wargaming are pricks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 00:24
|
|
|
Man people are really grumpy about aircraft carriers. But not the cruisers they and everyone else drive.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 00:48
|
|
|
You know how in basically every one of these dumb internet arguments about video game balance it's all worthless anecdotes because there's no serverwide statistics? Well there are actually statistics here that show CVs are incredibly overpowered and CAs pretty balanced but morons are still trying to argue the other way and 
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 01:03
|
|
|
I'm more grumpy about how they didn't have the CV balance fix in place since the beginning, i'm more sick of one team getting a CV when your team doesn't and vice versa more than anything. Like how was this not in the game since the beginning, oh it's wargaming, probably made too much sense.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 01:07
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:Man people are really grumpy about aircraft carriers. But not the cruisers they and everyone else drive. That's because with the exception of battleships burning to death cruisers are in a good spot right now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 01:13
|
|
|
yaay posted:I just can't get over how they must have started desiging this game with 3-4 years of experience with tanks under their belt and we still managed to end up with something more broken and stupid than artillery. The only place where WG's competence shows is how they managed to tweak the economy to make the grind to give out the least possible amount without having people getting pissed and quitting over it (yet). Increasing the raw number of credits awarded, but waiting a few tiers to put ship and module costs through the roof was clever. And by clever I mean wargaming are pricks. The only reason people can't kill cvs as easy is because botes are slow and it takes a long time for a cvs escort to leave the area. In tanks sneaking a light tank behind the lines is easy LegoMan fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Aug 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 01:47
|
|
|
^^^ Yeah carriers are definitely less bullshit than artillery. The issue gets a little confused because carriers are overpowered in pub games, and artillery is bad in pub games. I think a better analogy to carriers is something like the old T49 or Marder or that premium French TD, with the caveat that the gameplay is pretty different.PerrineClostermann posted:Man people are really grumpy about aircraft carriers. But not the cruisers they and everyone else drive. Cruisers aren't that badly balanced. Fire chance could use a look, but even just from the raw statistics they're pretty much in line with battleships. Battleships actually outperform cruisers in most areas, and in many ways battleships gain more from being driven well than cruisers do. Cruisers are pretty consistent in having a slightly higher win rate, but there's an obvious possible mechanism for that visible in the average stats and it isn't killing battleships There are outliers, yes, but Mogami etc. are individual overpowered ships. Certain battleships outperform Mogami significantly in the hands of the average player, in almost every statistic, and the battleship club seems fairly content with that. On a related note, if you're consistently losing one on one to equal tier cruisers in a mid-high tier battleship you're probably not driving your battleship ideally. There's no shame in that, this is a mediocre video game where you click in front of boats. If you think you'd have more fun if you didn't lose one on one to cruisers there are plenty of resources here and elsewhere to help become a better player. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Aug 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 01:57
|
|
|
LegoMan posted:The only reason people can't kill cvs as easy is because botes are slow and it takes a long time for a cvs escort to leave the area. In tanks sneaking a light tank behind the lines is easy Carriers are going 30, Destroyers are 35 and the rest of the fleet is stuck at 30. So you have to close 5-10 km at 5 knots or less. In world of tanks SPGs usually end up in the 30kph crowd while light tanks sit around 60 to 70. If I'm not opposed in WOT I can run a light tank into the backline in a minute or two, tops. Planes aren't even that fast in Warships.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 01:58
|
|
|
Can we all just agree that draws are stupid bullshit that need to be reduced or removed entirely?    
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 01:59
|
|
|
El Disco posted:Can we all just agree that draws are stupid bullshit that need to be reduced or removed entirely? 2 cap is dumb and should be removed. Replace it with a mode with no caps where the team with more %health left at the end wins, or something. The team with more cap points should win encounter if the timer expires.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 02:05
|
|
|
 I'm not sure if I can ever do this again, 7 kills in my omaha. I have no idea how I actually did it. Omaha owns 
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 02:39
|
|
|
Kinetica posted:
Welcome to the Omaha club! It is a good club for a fantastic boat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 02:43
|
|
|
El Disco posted:Can we all just agree that draws are stupid bullshit that need to be reduced or removed entirely? Oh so you were that myoko? Nice. That was not my best game, but it turns out south carolinas don't take 15 127mm HE shells very well. Turns out the atlanta doesn't take 2 close-range BBs very well, either.  Shame about that draw, I honestly expected us to lose basically immediately.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 02:52
|
|
|
Zero Gravitas posted:Uhhh... My Minekaze don't want none unless you've got guns, hon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 03:22
|
|
|
The problem with fires seems primarily to be that the listed values of fire chance is wildly wrong as far as I can tell. Like most destroyers have a listed 10% fire chance on their guns, but I'm getting set on fire way more than once every 10 shots on average. And that's not even counting the fact that I'm generally running both the skill and the module that reduce said fire chance, which theoretically means that a destroyer shouldn't even BE able to set me on fire if Wargaming is actually listing the correct numbers. Hell, even if the module/skill are deceptive, and it's really just reducing by a multiplicative amount, rather than subtractive, you're still back at the initial problem of getting set on fire way more than 1 in 10. This is probably what enrages me about the way fire is in the game over CVs. Carriers at least are something I can see and take direct action to counter, as opposed to pure RNG where WG is lying through their teeth as to the actual numbers to me. Honestly I think multiple fires start chunking health way too fast as well, but it's really the frequency that bugs me. As well as how often your engine/rudder is knocked out, regardless of where the shell actually hits you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 03:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 06:39 |
|
|
Driving around in my Mutsuki... which sucks... But to cap it off, I put 3 torps into a Nicholas and it didn't die. This was from about 4.5km away. He confirmed three hit him. How is this possible? I'm running the 16k+ damage upgraded torps. He had 1,000 health left.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 03:52
|
|
