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Tezzor posted:Let's not worry about "gun crime" specifically and instead just look at murder rates. Ok, the US has a murder rate 3-48 times that of anywhere else in the industrialized world, and the upper end of that range is our next door neighbor. Seems odd. It's also been steadily dropping for years, while gun sales have gone through the roof.
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Aug 27, 2015 17:32
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Tezzor posted:Let's not worry about "gun crime" specifically and instead just look at murder rates. Ok, the US has a murder rate 3-48 times that of anywhere else in the industrialized world, and the upper end of that range is our next door neighbor. Seems odd. People love American culture, but then they complain about the contest of terror that creates it. They only complain at certain times though, like when a black man shoots two white people.
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Aug 27, 2015 17:35
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various cheeses posted:It's also been steadily dropping for years, while gun sales have gone through the roof. Did "gun sales" historically include back alley deals?
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Aug 27, 2015 17:37
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Venom Snake posted:Owning a tank should be easier than owning a hand gun. It is in a lot of areas. Not really any massive hoops to jump through in owning a tank, and potentially a bunch for owning a gun in some areas. So price tag aside, it's easier to own a tank.
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Aug 27, 2015 17:41
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various cheeses posted:It's also been steadily dropping for years, while gun sales have gone through the roof. Gun diffusion and availability is already high enough that any increase in numbers will likely have a negligible effect on increasing crime rates, which is not the same thing as saying decreasing diffusion and availability will have a negligible effect on decreasing crime rates.
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Aug 27, 2015 17:44
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Venom Snake posted:yeah, which is why I don't get why people so breathlessly defend hand guns. Like the only reason hang guns exist is to kill other people, they have no actual societal benefit outside of being used by public defenders such as trained police officers (not all police officers mind you) and soldiers. Give it a try, America. See what happens if you just ban small guns.
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Aug 27, 2015 17:50
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VagueRant posted:This is actually a really interesting point. I always saw long guns as the biggest concern and had never considered that. You'd be hosed in open-carry states, I guess, but still. Little Mister Militia can still have his fantasy of holding off the US government's tanks and drones with his AR-15. It was already tried multiple times, but what do I know I'm just a guy who pays attention
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Aug 27, 2015 17:59
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Samurai Sanders posted:I only ever worry about weapons you can hide under your clothes. I'm not so up on my Mechwarrior but I know Elementals are small, but can you do that? They are small compared to multi-story 20-100 ton death machines. They are worn by dudes genetically engineered to be huge as gently caress and are worn by said huge as gently caress people as suits. So no.
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Aug 27, 2015 18:04
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paragon1 posted:They are small compared to multi-story 20-100 ton death machines. They are worn by dudes genetically engineered to be huge as gently caress and are worn by said huge as gently caress people as suits. genetically engineered god-warriors have second amendment rights too, nazi
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Aug 27, 2015 18:06
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SedanChair posted:People love American culture, but then they complain about the contest of terror that creates it. They only complain at certain times though, like when a black man shoots two white people. Actually I seem to recall myself and others complaining about American gun culture long previous to its most recent public manifestation of insanity. Aside from laughing this off as disingenuous whining, which I would prefer not to do, how do we resolve this apparent paradox except by reference to some kind of Time Engine?
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Aug 27, 2015 18:06
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various cheeses posted:It's also been steadily dropping for years, while gun sales have gone through the roof. Crime rates dropped because the crack epidemic mostly ended Suicides by gunshot have gone way, way, way up tho
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Aug 27, 2015 18:08
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Who What Now posted:Edit: the argument that there are too many guns in America already is probably the best/only valid argument against gun control. Why doesn't the federal government just buyback and destroy the privately armed firearms that new, prospective legislation would ban? I mean, it would cost a lot of $$$$ but last I checked the post 9/11 war spending was up to $1.6 trillion, and that is a spending that has actively cost American lives, whereas buying guns back off owners would be also a lot of money but would save American lives. The latter is taxpayer's money better spent in the eyes of most civilians, I would've thought. Handguns are the worst, in my view, followed by high-capacity automatic weapons. But then this happens, I guess: quote:Protesters sought to disrupt a “no questions asked” gun buyback effort Thursday on Detroit’s west side. http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/08/30/protest-disrupts-detroit-gun-buyback-effort/ I mean, you can change the second amendment, right? That's why it's called an amendment. Rakosi fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Aug 27, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 18:09
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various cheeses posted:It's also been steadily dropping for years, while gun sales have gone through the roof. It has been dropping worldwide. Ours is still abnormally high compared to developed countries though.
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Aug 27, 2015 18:11
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crabcakes66 posted:It has been dropping worldwide. Ours is still abnormally high compared to developed countries though. Can't find the graph, but haven't we always had a higher rate compared to Europe, going back decades?
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Aug 27, 2015 18:17
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various cheeses posted:Can't find the graph, but haven't we always had a higher rate compared to Europe, going back decades? why could that be though it's almost as if we have more of something, proportionally, than europe has
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Aug 27, 2015 18:18
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Must be the freedom.
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Aug 27, 2015 18:20
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various cheeses posted:Can't find the graph, but haven't we always had a higher rate compared to Europe, going back decades? What is your explanation for America's completely ludicrous rate of gun murder compared to the rest of the developed world, by the way?
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Aug 27, 2015 18:20
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crabcakes66 posted:It has been dropping worldwide. Ours is still abnormally high compared to developed countries though. Mirthless posted:why could that be though
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Aug 27, 2015 18:22
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Popular Thug Drink posted:genetically engineered god-warriors have second amendment rights too, nazi Then they can use laser rifles like everyone else. The 2A does not entitle you to the firepower of a main battle tank. 
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Aug 27, 2015 18:22
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Dead Reckoning posted:Even if you delete firearms from the dataset, our proportional homicide rate is still higher. which makes our insanely high firearm accessibility even stupider when you account for the murderous bloodlust of the average american
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Aug 27, 2015 18:25
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Tezzor posted:Actually I seem to recall myself and others complaining about American gun culture long previous to its most recent public manifestation of insanity. Aside from laughing this off as disingenuous whining, which I would prefer not to do, how do we resolve this apparent paradox except by reference to some kind of Time Engine? No, you complain in fits and starts, motivated by the sight of whites dying.
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Aug 27, 2015 18:31
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paragon1 posted:Then they can use laser rifles like everyone else. The 2A does not entitle you to the firepower of a main battle tank. What about rights to carry a SRM-4 and a Small Laser?
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Aug 27, 2015 18:31
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CommieGIR posted:What about rights to carry a SRM-4 and a Small Laser? The anti-mech crowd doesn't even know what they're trying to ban. Like the legislating against the Mad Cat because it has the shoulder missile things that go up.
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Aug 27, 2015 18:47
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various cheeses posted:The anti-mech crowd doesn't even know what they're trying to ban. Like the legislating against the Mad Cat because it has the shoulder missile things that go up. It is clearly just a Catapult with arms on!  CommieGIR posted:What about rights to carry a SRM-4 and a Small Laser? Acceptable, so long as it is on a truck and not a powersuit.
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Aug 27, 2015 18:51
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Rakosi posted:What do the pro-gun crowd say about the hordes of evidence that suggest gun restrictions/bans have a statistically significant effect in reducing gun crime in most other countries that have such legislation. Is the argument for guns literally only "Its our rights!!" and "black people will immediately rape my family in the middle of the night if I dont have firearms under my pillow"? There isn't hordes of evidence though. The studies are mixed and lack the controls needed to show causation. Cross country studies are incredibly hard to do correctly so people latch on to whatever study 'proves'their point . People don't actually want to think about this issue, they want whatever reaffirms their gut feelings. I hope this makes the issue less confusing for you.
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Aug 27, 2015 18:52
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Rakosi posted:I mean, you can change the second amendment, right? That's why it's called an amendment. In theory yes. But in reality there's no way an amendment on an issue this polarizing would pass 2/3 of Congress as well as 3/4 of the states. Which is a big part of why this whole debate is really depressing: there's no way any really meaningful change can happen given the current makeup of the country and government.
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Aug 27, 2015 18:56
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SedanChair posted:No, you complain in fits and starts, motivated by the sight of whites dying. I am 100% sure that posters complained about American gun culture when Dylan Roof shot up that church and hit nary a white person in sight. Im too lazy to look them up on my phone though so whatever.
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Aug 27, 2015 18:58
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tsa posted:There isn't hordes of evidence though. The studies are mixed and lack the controls needed to show causation. But doesn't America disqualify itself from having an opinion on research and comparative study of gun violence being used in the debate because they banned it? http://uk.businessinsider.com/congressional-ban-on-gun-violence-research-rewnewed-2015-7?r=US&IR=T
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Aug 27, 2015 19:00
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Institute a guns-for-katanas trade-in program, watch all gun goons suddenly reconsider their position.
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Aug 27, 2015 19:00
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Now is not the time to politicize this tragedy. Sure it is. I don't see the problem with "politicizing tragedy." If you wait until later, people lose interest in the issue, and nothing gets done. The best way to force the necessary changes to happen is to do it while the bodies are still warm.
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Aug 27, 2015 19:01
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Rakosi posted:What is your explanation for America's completely ludicrous rate of gun murder compared to the rest of the developed world, by the way? War on drugs and it's relation to poverty in inner cites is the real obvious one. Gun access is also probably a (small) factor as well. Also lol at the idea of amending out the second amendment.
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Aug 27, 2015 19:02
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All guns should be smart and only usable by their registered owner and not possible to be disabled or affected by outside transmissions.
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Aug 27, 2015 19:02
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Institute a guns-for-katanas trade-in program, watch all gun goons suddenly reconsider their position. I bought a sword in a shopping mall in NC once when I was much younger. Easily my dumbest purchase.
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Aug 27, 2015 19:02
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Rakosi posted:But doesn't America disqualify itself from having an opinion on research and comparative study of gun violence being used in the debate because they banned it? Well hey when the data does not say what you want it to just ban the data. The same thing they are trying to do with climate change.
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Aug 27, 2015 19:08
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Schlitzkrieg Bop posted:In theory yes. But in reality there's no way an amendment on an issue this polarizing would pass 2/3 of Congress as well as 3/4 of the states. Which is a big part of why this whole debate is really depressing: there's no way any really meaningful change can happen given the current makeup of the country and government. Yeah, pretty much. People joke about shrugging our shoulders and saying "I guess nothing can be done about crazy people getting guns" but that's more or less completely true.
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Aug 27, 2015 19:20
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Schlitzkrieg Bop posted:In theory yes. But in reality there's no way an amendment on an issue this polarizing would pass 2/3 of Congress as well as 3/4 of the states. Which is a big part of why this whole debate is really depressing: there's no way any really meaningful change can happen given the current makeup of the country and government. So change guns.
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Aug 27, 2015 19:22
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If your dad died from a heart attack, and you started telling everybody that the government needs to pass a law mandating that everyone eat a jar of peanut butter a day (or that peanut butter be banned) in order to prevent heart disease, the fact that your dad died from heart disease does not make your opinion any less wrong or unfounded, and it should not give it any more weight than anyone elses opinion.
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Aug 27, 2015 19:23
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SedanChair posted:No, you complain in fits and starts, motivated by the sight of whites dying. Why are you lying and trolling to defend something as silly and destructive as untrammeled toy ownership, primarily advocated by the right-wing racists you so dislike?
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Aug 27, 2015 19:27
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crabcakes66 posted:Owning and carrying a gun would not have saved the majority of victims who get shot. Especially because the majority of victims are the same person as the perpetrator. various cheeses posted:It's also been steadily dropping for years, while gun sales have gone through the roof. The number of people who own guns has also been steadily dropping while gun sales have gone through the roof. Eventually you're just going to have a few thousand people whose homes are entirely filled with guns.
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Aug 27, 2015 19:29
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Now is not the time to politicize this tragedy. Everything is political. Free Your Mind
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Aug 27, 2015 19:33
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