|
DeusExMachinima posted:Hypothetical: if there were a way to successfully prohibit drugs and alcohol would you do it? Like how far does this possession crimes rabbit hole go. Alcohol and drugs serve a purpose other than killing and can be used in a safe responsible manner. Their very existence is not defined by causing severe injury and death. And seriously? Slippery slope? 
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:53 |
|
|
Rakosi posted:You are so full of facetious strawmans. Putting that aside, I don't see the point in measuring firearm homicides, because people are equally dead no matter the means of murder. It also neatly sidesteps questions of method substitution. In all homicides, New Orleans had a 57.6 per 100,000 homicide rate in 2011, while Honduras clocked in at 90.4 per 100,000. That's stretching the definition of "almost equal" pretty far. It's a little unfair to use New Orleans as an example, since New Orleans is one of the most dangerous cities in the entire world and has had an annual murder rate at least seven times the national average for the past 30 years. To balance that out, Lincoln, in terrifying, gun infested Nebraska (88 privately owned guns per 100 people according to one study), had half the homicide rate of Norway. All this really tells me is that the United States is a pretty diverse place, and that laws about gun ownership have minimal effect on homicide rates. Also, I would put forward that, if a professional civil service, effective institutions, and overall wealth are sufficient to disrupt the effects of strict restrictions on firearms ownership, the effect was not that strong to begin with. quote:That doesn't answer my question. If you could choose between the current high gun homicide rate in America, or your right to bear arms, which would you choose? Don't dodge it this time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:02
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:Alcohol and drugs serve a purpose other than killing and can be used in a safe responsible manner. Their very existence is not defined by causing severe injury and death. It's entirely possible for something to have an alternative purpose besides killing and still fall into the set of things that in the aggregate quote:that literally makes society worse and more dangerous for others, So why the exception?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:11
|
|
This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
|
LeeMajors posted:Alcohol and drugs serve a purpose Guys my purpose of getting super drunk and then beating my wife and crashing my car into a Wawa is very important.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:12
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:I don't think you understand what a strawman argument is. there's also no point in measuring the racial classification of victim/victimizer yet gun nuts endlessly yammer on about black crime (because they're all terrified of black people)
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:13
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:No they don't you goof. What the gently caress ever. Its primary purpose is as an intoxicant, not as a loving lethal weapon. And I never said it was important--but it is not completely useless outside of its dangerous implications like a gun.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:14
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:What the gently caress ever. Its primary purpose is as an intoxicant ITT we live in a world where alcohol and drugs don't ruin millions of lives a year in America. It is very useful that I be allowed to smoke up and watch cartoons. The money I spend buying drugs in no way contributes to basically all the worst crimes happening not just in the Us but also pretty much everywhere else.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:15
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Intoxication has never killed anyone. ITT we have a simpleton putting words in my mouth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:16
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Intoxication has never killed anyone. at least alcohol makes people loosen up generally the more guns someone owns the more insufferable and hostile they become
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:16
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:I don't think you understand what a strawman argument is. You're right; I was using the 2010 statistics, not current ones. New Orleans has gone down a little and Honduras has gone up a lot. New Orleans very recently (2010) used to be almost equal to the country with the highest gun homicide rate (62.1 vs 68.4). Dead Reckoning posted:It's a little unfair to use New Orleans as an exa Dead Reckoning posted:Do you mean like, if some Ifrit offered to cut our crime rate down Icelandic levels, but only if I could never own guns again, would I go for it? Hell yeah, I'd take that deal. Just try it, once, and if we're wrong you can get all your guns back. We're not wrong though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:17
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:at least alcohol makes people loosen up
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:18
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:at least alcohol makes people loosen up It's not even the point. Alcohol exists for a purpose other than killing someone. Like a cement block, or a kitchen knife. Or a motor vehicle. Guns only exist for the purpose of killing. Apples and oranges, but gun nuts will weave recursive strawman baskets to sail down their river of denial and infantile infatuation with violence.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:18
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Intoxication has never killed anyone. Firearms derangement has also claimed this man, as he gibbers about how coffee ruins millions of lives every year and kills people.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:20
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:Alcohol exists for a purpose
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:22
|
|
|
We live in a society where thousands of Americans, every single second of every goddamn day, think that hyperventilating in front of a gun safe about what means of blowing muggers away they're going to carry today is effectively equal to having a beer or drinking a morning coffee. My friends, this country is in dire peril.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:24
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Not a socially useful purpose, so why do you advocate for it? Less bad than guns. Dodging the point like a pro.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:24
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:What the gently caress ever. Its primary purpose is as an intoxicant, not as a loving lethal weapon. It's primary purpose or whatever is literally poison. The hilarious side effect is you get drunk and make posts like this on the forums.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:24
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:It's not even the point. Alcohol exists for a purpose other than killing someone. Like a cement block, or a kitchen knife. Or a motor vehicle. Again you elucidated a primary concern. Something that causes measurable damage. Are you now saying your primary concern is design intent?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:24
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:I'm going to explain this in the most remedial terms so you fucks can understand it: LeeMajors posted:Alcohol and drugs serve a purpose other than killing and can be used in a safe responsible manner. Their very existence is not defined by causing severe injury and death. Pro-Skub: You say guns are only designed for killing, but Olympic target rifles and fine over/under shotguns are designed and used almost exclusively for sport. Much like the vast majority of guns sold. Anti-Skub: It is impossible to separate guns from the fact that they are designed to kill things, no matter what you use them for. Pro-Skub: How is this different from rockets or RADAR, both designed as weapons of war? Anti-Skub: Those can be used for things that aren't killing. Pro-Skub: Like sports or amusement or commercial purposes? Should Estes rockets be illegal? Should hunting? Anti-Skub: Any sports with guns are just practice for killing. Pro-Skub: The same could be said for many sports. Boxing, judo, kendo, javelin? Anti-Skub: Guns were designed make killing a point-and-click affair. They are totally unique in this and cannot be compared to anything else. Pro-Skub: So is designer's intent or what the item is ultimately used for the quality that matters?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:24
|
|
|
Rakosi posted:Less bad than guns. By what metric?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:24
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:By what metric? You can't murder someone on live TV, or a whole room of school children, with a mojito.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:25
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Good point. I forgot about alcohol's use as a rape drug. alcohol doesn't rape people. people rape people
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:25
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Not a socially useful purpose, so why do you advocate for it? this is true, the high rate of auto-self defense among middle aged white men and veterans does serve a socially useful purpose in that it saves us gobs of money in medical bills
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:26
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Intoxication has never killed anyone. This is why the drugs that do these things are illegal. I'm guessing that wasn't your point though? Or are you arguing that access to hard drugs should be completely unrestricted like guns? Heck let's ruin as many lives as possible. Murder, drugs, mayhem, 666
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:26
|
|
|
Rakosi posted:You can't murder someone on live TV, or a whole room of school children, with a mojito. Better pack it up MADD, forums poster Rakosi just blew you out of the water!
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:28
|
|
|
Even leaving aside the basic failures of brain they've got going on, gun types are really lovely at parties, as these last few posts prove. "Rolling Rock?" "That's pure poison. All I need is Ol' Betsy, my painstakingly-restored Lee-Enfield Rifle No 5 Mk I "Jungle Carbine", rechambered for 7.62x51 NATO."
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:29
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:No children have ever been killed by someone under the influence of alcohol. Thanks for clearing that up. Hmmm, something is telling me that what you said isn't what I said. Either your reading comprehension is bad or mine is. I guess we should let the thread decide.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:30
|
|
|
Guns were literally designed for, and serve no purpose other than, making violence as deadly as possible. If you are unable to understand or admit to this very basic truth about guns without straying into masturbatory pedantry, then I don't know what to tell you. Please don't procreate.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:30
|
|
|
Play posted:This is why the drugs that do these things are illegal. I'm guessing that wasn't your point though? Or are you arguing that access to hard drugs should be completely unrestricted like guns? Heck let's ruin as many lives as possible. Murder, drugs, mayhem, 666 Rakosi posted:Hmmm, something is telling me that what you said isn't what I said. Either your reading comprehension is bad or mine is. I guess we should let the thread decide. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Aug 28, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:30
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Well, it's either that or you're arguing that dying from being shot is worse than being killed by a drunk driver. Holy poo poo wow, literally lost for words.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:34
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:Guns were literally designed for, and serve no purpose other than, making violence as deadly as possible. Alright so design intent is more important than what kills. Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:36
|
|
|
"Thank god," the man said, as his life ebbed away from the effects of circulatory shock, "that being shot by a man who wouldn't shut up about how guns aren't designed for killing is really no worse than getting hit by a car." Then he passed.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:37
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:Alright so design intent is more important than what kills. Thanks. When the item in question is primarily designed to kill and is party to a incredible amount of efficient deaths, it warrants legislative attention.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:42
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:When the item in question is primarily designed to kill and is party to a incredible amount of efficient deaths, it warrants legislative attention. Does every inanimate object have some sort of spirit animal in your mind, dictating its one true use?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:43
|
|
|
Have we talked about Mark Ames / Going Postal yet? http://www.alternet.org/story/24796/a_brief_history_of_rage,_murder_and_rebellion The Republicans are actually right that this is a mental health issue at its core, and what we need is better mental health treatment. We also need for the media to start following suicide reporting guidelines on these shootings (i.e., not loving reporting on them). Neither of these things will actually happen though because either would cost money.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:43
|
|
|
various cheeses posted:Does every inanimate object have some sort of spirit animal in your mind, dictating its one true use? Are you denying that guns were designed for the purpose of killing, and exist to that end today?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:44
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:When the item in question is primarily designed to kill and is party to a incredible amount of efficient deaths, it warrants legislative attention. But if it just incidentally kills people, that's okey-dokey?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:44
|
|
various cheeses posted:Does every inanimate object have some sort of spirit animal in your mind, dictating its one true use? And look, now we've got religious chauvinism at best going on here! Seriously, these guys are total shitpiles.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:45
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:Are you denying that guns were designed for the purpose of killing, and exist to that end today? I think you're arguing from a really weird place. Like the bow and arrow was designed to kill, do we ban that too?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:53 |
|
various cheeses posted:I think you're arguing from a really weird place. Like the bow and arrow was designed to kill, do we ban that too? I think that it would be hilarious to go fishing with you, and watch you try to fish with a string tied to a baseball bat. "Intent of the designer does NOT matter," you'd say.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 01:47
|
|