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I don't know poo poo about Yes after Relayer, and I kinda think this is a good thing maybe.
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Aug 26, 2015 00:11
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Drama is pretty good tbh but it's not amazing. Going For The One has a couple good songs. That's about it.
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Aug 26, 2015 01:50
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Going For the One is fantastic and has no bad songs on it. The production is pretty lackluster though.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:31
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Possibly Chicken posted:I don't know poo poo about Yes after Relayer, and I kinda think this is a good thing maybe. Yes wasn't as consistently good after GFTO, but they still had some great moments. The only reason I know so much about the early 90s period of Yes is because I was just getting into Yes around this time (the union era), and it was also around the same time that my family got internet. 2400 bps! Plodidgy ftw! I actually subscribed to the notes from the edge newsletter and participated in the newsgroups and everything. It's actually one of the main reasons I became such a big proghead because through those message boards I discovered a lot of other bands. But I do think Yes was still pretty popular in the early 90s. Not as mainstream as they were in the 80s, but they were still filling stadiums on the union tour. Gamma Nerd posted:Drama is pretty good tbh but it's not amazing. Going For The One has a couple good songs. That's about it. You really only NEED one album. Yessongs. Best live album ever IMO. But if you don't like live albums, get the three albums that that live album covers. The Yes Album. Fragile. Close to the Edge. That's what my friend who introduced me to Yes said and that's how I started back when we actually had to spend our hard earned cash on music in record stores and before we could download it in bulk on the internet for free. He's pretty much right, but I still wound up buying them all eventually. Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 03:09
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Possibly Chicken posted:I don't know poo poo about Yes after Relayer, and I kinda think this is a good thing maybe. yeah even Relayer I have trouble with. I mean it's a brilliant album in many ways but the keyboard parts in particular have some truly awful moments and take me right out it. I really cannot Moraz. also, personally, I do have a bit of a soft spot for some of their 80's pop tunes.
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Aug 26, 2015 19:02
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Earwicker posted:also, personally, I do have a bit of a soft spot for some of their 80's pop tunes. I feel the same about Genesis.
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Aug 26, 2015 19:25
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I think all their discs up to 90125 are pretty good. GFTO and Drama are nearly as good as the classics, Tormato a good bit less so but it does have a lot of entertaining moments. Even Big Generator is decent, in a "what if The Police stayed together?" kinda way, some songs I really like but by then they were really far away from the Yes sound. ABWH is kinda bad; it's a powerhouse group on paper (with Tony Levin taking the Squire role) but in practice all you hear is digital Wakeman and lots and lots of Jon. Union I have only made it through twice, it had a pretty okay single ("Lift Me Up") but otherwise is really terrible. The stories surrounding that album are hilarious - you've got 9 talented and creative musicians there but from the sounds of it the songs were mostly the producer fleshing out some of Howe's demo material. Nobody wanted to do the album and it shows. Talk is decent - it's YesWest again, but not quite like the other two. Slower, more intricate, sometimes real good, and it does contain the first Yes epic since "Awaken". Then the band plowed into full-on nostalgia mode with Keys to Ascension; the classic Yes lineup reunited! The live part is useless and the studio parts are underwhelming, but it's as close to classic Yes as they've been in a long time. I thought "That, That Is" was pretty good on the first volume, the second has (almost) a full albums worth of new material, including "Mind Drive" which some people seem to like. Open Your Eyes aka the Sherwood album was next and it's a bit unfairly maligned - again this isn't REALLY a Yes album, but rather a standalone project from Squire and Sherwood that morphed into Yes (as it always does!) Decent pop tunes I guess, but it's worse than Talk, so make of it what you will. Then you have The Ladder, with another new keyboard player - this one I actually sorta like, there are some fairly modern sounds on here (which Yes purists seemed to really hate), plus the title track is, no poo poo, the best tune they've done in the classic Yes style since freakin' Drama, and it's not even close. Magnification - the one with orchestra - is next, and it's kinda neat, another candidate for the "best since 90125" label, and not tedious like you'd expect from a 30+ year old prog dinosaur, but I can't think of any tunes in particular I like. Then they took a long break, still playing a bunch of live shows, one of which I caught in like '05, and they were really good! Jon was actually talking about doing another Tales-style album which was cool, even if it was probably going to suck. But you know what happened next; Fly From Here, released long after everyone assumed Yes were going to exist as a "touring-only" unit, is fairly unnecessary, but it does live up to its "Drama 2" title at least - a little worse of course, but if you like Drama you'll do fine with this. Last year we got Heaven & Earth, the first with nuJon, who probably sounds quite a bit better than oldJon at this point, but the album itself will put you to sleep - dumb pop songs at unbearably slow tempos, as though the whole band was on Xanax. Don't blame it on Davison, who proved himself a good songwriter in Glass Hammer, and contributes maybe the best tune ("Light of the Ages"). And that's it! Or maybe not!
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Aug 26, 2015 20:02
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I have mixed feelings on ABWH and Union. On the one hand I think both these albums have some of the best and under-appreciated Yes songs, but on the other hand it also has the most abrasive over the top 80s production. The keyboards are at their most annoying, as is Jon's voice. For some reason he sings at too high a register and keeps repeating the same notes. Both these albums are definitely guilty pleasures of mine because I'll listen to them in private and enjoy them, but will turn it off if someone enters the room and feel embarrassed to be listening to them. It's too bad because I think some of the songs on these albums could have been masterpieces if done right.
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Aug 26, 2015 22:24
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I love the ABWH record, but I also have gone on record in this thread as being a filthy pop music fan. Some radio station played Brother Of Mine back when the record came out, like, once, and it was a white whale tune for me for the longest time, I wasn't even sure it really existed (because I was only looking through Yes albums to find it)
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Aug 27, 2015 03:48
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My earliest prog memories are of being 4 or 5 years old and riding in my dad's '57 Chevy Station wagon blasting ABWH. My dad was a huge Yes head and ABWH was like a breath of fresh air for him after 90125 and Big Generator. I've even got a picture somewhere of me as a tiny kid with my face painted like Bill Bruford's from the Brother of Mine video.
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Aug 27, 2015 04:52
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I should probably get around to some of the later Yes albums I've been avoiding for years, especially since by most accounts Talk is pretty good. I've also never owned the Keys to Ascension albums, but instead got the live DVD (very good except for an overabundance of cheesy video effects and amateurish film sequences) and Keystudio (all the crushing disappointment of new "classic" Yes in one painful compilation). Is there anything interesting (or anything at all) on the Keys albums themselves that I missed?
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Aug 27, 2015 14:54
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There's some really great stuff on all of their albums, even if most people see them as lackluster overall. Check out: ABWH - Brother of Mine, Order of the Universe, Fist of Fire Union - Shock to the System, Miracle of Life, Silent Talking Talk - I am Waiting, Where Will You be, Endless Dream Keys - That, That is, Bring me to the Power, Sign Language Open Your Eyes - Somehow, Someday, Open Your Eyes, Wonderlove The Ladder - Lightning Strikes, The River, New Language, Face to Face Magnification - Don't Go, Give Love Each Day, Magnification The real treasure is some of the stuff you can find in Jon Anderson's solo discography: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8nyL5ksJqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XnbCqHjxm8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV4Sn3UTvzM
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Aug 27, 2015 17:39
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I thought Homeworld was the best track on The Ladder
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Aug 27, 2015 17:44
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zh1 posted:The real treasure is some of the stuff you can find in Jon Anderson's solo discography:
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Aug 27, 2015 17:53
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I figured everyone already knew Olias.Iucounu posted:I thought Homeworld was the best track on The Ladder
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Aug 27, 2015 17:55
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I just can't get into ABWH, no matter how hard I try.
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Aug 28, 2015 02:15
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It's an uneven album for sure. The best material is all buried in the middle—Birthright, The Meeting, and Quartet are all among my favorite post-'70s Yes tracks. I rediscover it every few years, and inevitably have that moment where I think—hey, this is really good. I wonder why I didn't really care for it befdoodootdoodootdoodoo! TEAKBOIS!!!
Rollersnake fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 02:27
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Haha, yeah. Teakbois. Wish this was on the album though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_rTzsGGVyk
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Aug 28, 2015 02:39
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zh1 posted:There's some really great stuff on all of their albums, even if most people see them as lackluster overall. Good post, but you're leaving a lot out. ABWH is pretty strong overall, but does get fatigueing as does Union (but it has more weak moments than ABWH). Talk is better in a lot of ways and less fatiguing, but they play it a little too safe and predictable. That's one of the problems I have with the Rabin stuff, it's flashy and impressive but can get a little too 80s AOR pop generic at times. That being said, this is the best of the Rabin-Yes albums, he really goes the distance here. The Ladder? Can't forget Homeworld and Dreamtime is the best song on Magnification. Also Mind Drive and Fly From Here (the song) are as good as anything they've ever done since GFTO. As for the new album, it sucks, BUT Subway Walls is very good as is To Ascend and Believe Again. There's something to like on every Yes album. Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 02:40
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I don't think the songwriting was terrible on Heaven And Earth, I DO think Roy Thomas Baker has loving LOST IT as a mixer/producer. The other "recent" album he's been involved in was Smashing Pumpkins' "Zeitgeist" which sounds absolutely terrible.
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Aug 28, 2015 02:45
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I'm sure I left some good stuff out, but it's been a while since I listened to a few of these albums. I really love "Hour of Need" from Fly from Here as well as the title track but I felt like cutting it off after Jon left. How familiar is everyone with Jon's solo work? A lot of it got dismissed but there are some major gems here and there and some whole albums are worth checking out (Olias of course, Animation, Change We Must, Survival).
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Aug 28, 2015 02:54
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zh1 posted:Haha, yeah. Teakbois. Ehhh, no. The album version is very pretty, but here it just sounds like yet another '80s AOR ballad. gently caress, I hate those drums. Plus I could imagine Teakbois coming after this and not sounding utterly baffling. I wouldn't want to rob Yes of their best moment in accidental comedy. Rollersnake fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 03:05
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ABWH and Union would have been a million times better if Bruford used real drums and Wakeman stuck with his 70s keyboard setup. I think this is why YesWest was so much easier to swallow (besides them also being much more commercial sounding). Alan White didn't use electronic pads, Tony Kaye just stuck to that Hammond organ sound, and when Trevor Rabin did play synths and samples he usually had better tastes than Wakeman on what sounds to use. But I think what it really comes down to is some of the stuff they come up with was just too gay. Not in a homosexual way. Just ... you know what I mean. Gay in the happy sort of way. In the 80s sort of way. In the very Jon Anderson Yes sort of way. Case in point, Brother of Mine. https://youtu.be/JjlPu8kxkKQ?t=5m57s After a kickass Steve Howe solo it goes into an awesome Yes complex instrumental thing that would have been more awesome if they took off with it but instead transitions into this really gay dancy "long lost brother of mine" melody that Jon sings, but it then alternates back into the cool instrumental but with a gay keyboard solo sprinkled in throughout. I don't know whether to love or hate it because it's so unpredictable, so gay and so out of left field. It's very Yes though, I can't deny that. It's too Yes though. Too gay. It's like there's no gay filter. They had a gay filter back in the 70s. But in the 80s the gay filter was gone. It's cool to like 70s Yes, and it's even a little cool to like Rabin era Yes. But ABWH and Union Yes? Not cool to like at all because it's just so over the top. No filter at all. They just let it all hang out. I think I'm a closet fan of this era though. I guess I'm gay. zh1 posted:How familiar is everyone with Jon's solo work? A lot of it got dismissed but there are some major gems here and there and some whole albums are worth checking out (Olias of course, Animation, Change We Must, Survival). I must admit I'm not too familiar, but what I've heard I've liked. I've had Olias for about 20 years now and always loved that album. It's time I got another one of his. What do you recommend? Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 03:53
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The big two Jon solo albums are probably Animation and Change We Must, after Olias of course. Animation is just a great album, with tracks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTcdokD20Ms Maybe my favorite Jon Anderson track. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynCcR99zYU4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrxHhfhQF1Q My big favorite is Change We Must, which is mostly really tasteful string arrangements of earlier music from Yes and Jon and Vangelis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ujmORq_ynQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueVoAIF6XA4 Please at least check out "Under the Sun," which I posted earlier, a version of the best track from City of Angels, "It's on Fire." Survival is also great. I already posted the best track, "New New World," but "Unbroken Spirit" and "Sharpening the Sword" are worth your attention. Edit: I think a lot of people dismissed Jon's solo output because it was "world music" and was probably over-saturated and thought of as a little exploitative in the 90s but gently caress that, it's awesome world music. The man jumped around all over the place but it's mostly executed very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYhU_TIuKDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jLIOoEVq3g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGUegh6SfpA None of these should be any good, but they're all awesome, at least to me. zh1 fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 04:49
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I don't get why it's cool to like Rush's early 80s stuff but when I tell people I love 90125 they look at me like a madman  The only Yes stuff I've really listened to is that, Close to the Edge, and Fragile (all of which I got on vinyl for like a dollar each), plus a few tracks from The Yes Album. This last page has got me thinking I should really investigate the rest of their catalogue.
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Aug 28, 2015 04:52
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abraham linksys posted:I don't get why it's cool to like Rush's early 80s stuff but when I tell people I love 90125 they look at me like a madman Because Yes was way gayer than Rush. See above.
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Aug 28, 2015 05:16
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Yeah, that's what I love about (later-era) Yes. It's just pure saccharine happiness and uplifting messages and hippie crystal cheesecake, done by some occasionally virtuoso songwriters. Still beats 95% of the musical landscape.
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Aug 28, 2015 05:23
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abraham linksys posted:I don't get why it's cool to like Rush's early 80s stuff I'm afraid you've been badly misled somewhere in your life, because it's not generally considered "cool" to like any of Rush's stuff at all.
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Aug 28, 2015 16:36
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Earwicker posted:I'm afraid you've been badly misled somewhere in your life, because it's not generally considered "cool" to like any of Rush's stuff at all. Nah, I think the tide turned on Rush a few years ago. Nerds won.
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Aug 28, 2015 17:23
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Gianthogweed posted:Because Yes was way gayer than Rush. See above. Knock it off.
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Aug 28, 2015 17:47
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ABWH at the Spectrum in Philly was my first ever concert. I was 9 years old and I remember loving every second of it. To this day, their version of Close to the Edge is still my favorite live version of the song. It's hard for me to admit that because I love Squire tremendously, but something about that version - maybe the tempo, maybe how clean it is, or maybe because I can listen to Bruford play all day. Specifically, the recording I refer to is from An Evening of Yes Music Plus, and it's not even Levin on bass - I'd love to hear a really clean version with him. I've seen Yes what seems to be a million times, and each time Close to the Edge doesn't quite compare to the ABWH version (or Yessongs) and I always go back to the tempo. It's just lacking - the opening 3 minutes in The Solid Time of Change never has the desperation that it should.
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Aug 29, 2015 08:35
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zh1 posted:The big two Jon solo albums are probably Animation and Change We Must, after Olias of course. Animation is just a great album, with tracks like this: These are all really cool. I always avoided Jon Anderson's 80s solo albums because I assumed they sounded a lot like his 80s Yes stuff. I might actually like them a lot better. Marklar posted:ABWH at the Spectrum in Philly was my first ever concert. I was 9 years old and I remember loving every second of it. To this day, their version of Close to the Edge is still my favorite live version of the song. It's hard for me to admit that because I love Squire tremendously, but something about that version - maybe the tempo, maybe how clean it is, or maybe because I can listen to Bruford play all day. Specifically, the recording I refer to is from An Evening of Yes Music Plus, and it's not even Levin on bass - I'd love to hear a really clean version with him. I've seen Yes what seems to be a million times, and each time Close to the Edge doesn't quite compare to the ABWH version (or Yessongs) and I always go back to the tempo. It's just lacking - the opening 3 minutes in The Solid Time of Change never has the desperation that it should. It's interesting you should say this because the guy that got me into Yes said the same thing (he saw ABWH live with Levin on bass and said CTTE was the best performance he'd ever heard). Unfortunately I missed out on ABWH live, but I did buy the live album when it came out. I thought the overall album was great, but as for CTTE itself, perhaps he'd built it up too much, but I was a little disappointed when I finally heard it. Sure it was cleaner and more precise, but it also felt lacking in some ways. I had grown to really love the Yessongs version, and it had a lot more ferocity, especially in the opening, and in the Seasons of Man section just before the keyboard solo. I never really warmed to the sound of Bruford's electronic drums and Wakeman's 80s keyboard sounds. I always preferred the older meatier keyboard (although I must admit Wakeman's playing had gotten more impressive since the 70s). Still, my friend couldn't believe that I preferred the Yessongs version with Alan White on drums over the ABWH version with Bruford on drums. I always wondered if it was just an off night for them since they didn't have Tony Levin, but I have a feeling that's not the case. Jeff Berlin was awesome, and overall their playing was great, and the tempo was perfect ... it just lacked the aggressiveness of the 70s performances both due to the cleaner sound the late 80s style instruments vs. the dirtier and darker sounding 70s instruments and the fact that they were playing at a much more controlled and deliberate tempo rather than tearing poo poo up the way they were in the 70s. I just like the 70s sound better. That being said, the ABWH performance of CTTE was a lot better than their subsequent performances. It's seemed to have gotten progressively slower and lost more of its fire over the years. Here they are for comparison: Yessongs - Close to the Edge https://youtu.be/BcDU-vilgic ABWH - Close to the Edge https://youtu.be/g6JjkNyGxj4 Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 29, 2015 18:14
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Gianthogweed posted:
Funny you mention - Seasons of Man in the Yessongs version sounds a bit disjointed to me - I think it's mainly the first section, before Wakeman's lead. I agree on the ferocity, and actually, but I don't know if it's Howe's playing (the wah-wah sound he has is a bit distracting and chaotic) or the mix. Whereas for me the ABWH version really drives - the groove is set by Bruford and his stomping on the bass drum. It's cleaner, but there is a bit less 'danger,' if that makes any sense.
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Aug 30, 2015 05:28
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Holy gently caress, the King Crimson setlist from tonight. Talk about stepping up your loving game: http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/king-crimson/2015/waterside-theatre-aylesbury-england-bf77d5e.html
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Sep 1, 2015 01:49
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Holy moly. I don't even know if I want to see a setlist like that, but maybe it's just because it's so beaten into me that King Crimson shows are something completely different from that.
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Sep 1, 2015 02:33
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I would totally think that was a troll, were that not the sort of site where any corrections needed happen nearly immediately.
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Sep 1, 2015 02:35
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What the gently caress is real anymore?
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Sep 1, 2015 04:48
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Found a video of ABWH with Levin on bass. https://youtu.be/A2rFJ7mX6CM
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Sep 1, 2015 05:57
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Noise Machine posted:Holy gently caress, the King Crimson setlist from tonight. Talk about stepping up your loving game: That is pretty much last year's setlist, with the exception of the addition of Easy Money, The Court of the Crimson King, and Epitaph. That's because they played two tracks from Scarcity of Miracles, which were better than the album. Last year's US tour was loving mind blowing. They weren't as tight as the Thrak show I saw in 95, but they had been playing together for over a year at that point as well. Last year they were still in the first month of their tour, but it was still amazing. The 2008 brief tour proved it was time to turn the page on the Belew years. The current lineup has mellotrons, and the third time seeing drummer/keyboardist Bill Reiflin after seeing him in Ministry and REM in the 90s. I can't wait to hear the new stuff with the three drummers since Gavin was the only drummer on the Scarcity of Miracles album. Its nice to see a band of that caliber in a venue made for, you know, live music...theaters that fit 2500 people with great acoustics. The 3 times I've seen them were always like that, and so much nicer than the big Yes and Pink Floyd monster shows I've seen. You could hear a loving pin drop during the quiet moments, and there were NO smartphones blocking my view. As for ABWH, seeing that show was worth it because I was getting into KC at the same time...must have been because of that Bruford guy I liked so much. I remembered thinking: "wait, Yes?? As in, the "Owner of a Lonely Band"? That song was worn out in the 80s, and to hear Close to the Edge for the first time, from ABWH live, was incredible to say the least. And with Tony Levin from KC on bass? If you gotta replace Squire, Levin is hard to argue against. When the Union tour came around two years later, the crowd was divided between ABWH and Trevor Rabin fans. The Rabin fans got the wind knocked out of them when the entire lineup played "Awaken". Those 15 minute long songs didn't seem so weird anymore. The fact that the Talk tour flopped was very telling...when everyone found out Bruford, Wakeman and Howe weren't coming back, fans overall, including all of the Rabin fans at the Union show, stayed at home. Empty seats at the Philly Spectrum, known for their Yes fanatics? I was pissed about the return of the 80s lineup because I wanted to hear a TRUE Yes 8-man collaboration on album, but happy to hear Bruford had rejoined Crimson and I'd finally get to see them. So that Thrak box set is gonna get some serious play from me when that poo poo comes out. Anyone with the slightest chance of seeing this current King Crimson, don't hesitate. I'm jealous even tho I'm one of the fortunate few who saw them last year. They're that good.
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Sep 1, 2015 09:19
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Gimmedaroot posted:That is pretty much last year's setlist, with the exception of the addition of Easy Money, The Court of the Crimson King, and Epitaph. I saw the tour when it came to the east coast of the US last year, but I'm still in shock specifically because Fripp said (and there's video of this on the DGM youtube channel!) that if you're expecting to hear "In The Court Of The Crimson King" that you should just stay at home. He obviously did a 180 on that stance. My theory was because McDonald and Giles had writing credits that would prevent him from playing those tunes, maybe they acquiesced since then?
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Sep 1, 2015 13:02
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