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Coolguye posted:Armed Guards are useful at the entrance to major cell block areas where prisoners shouldn't be on a regular basis (such as in front of the min-sec or the max-sec entrance or something), to grab an easy point or two of Punishment/Security without affecting the day-to-day, and are also useful in parole rooms, to keep people from kicking off if their parole gets denied. This is true regardless of your prison's ethos. They are also universally useful for patrolling cell blocks populated by a bunch of gang members (aka, the supermax/death row wing) because those guys never work or attend reform programs - eternal suppression is really the best thing you can ask for. The guards are the most innocent members of the prison, being put into that hellhole directly by the players decision.
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Aug 21, 2015 04:33
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TheSpartacus posted:You have to watch out about having armed guards around super max legendary prisoners, those fuckers can and will TAKE the shotguns right out of the guards hands and precede to blast away until they are tazered or killed. I've lost over 10 guards to one supermax prisoner who keeps taking batons or guns and getting a kill or two before he is subdued via tazer or shotgun blast, but he is extremely tough so he is never hurt too bad to die. The dickhole kicks off for no reason and just lures those guards into his 3x3 cell of doom.
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Aug 21, 2015 04:51
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PantsFreeZone posted:Also, the use of armed guards needs to be adjusted. They are almost pointless. I hire 2 for the grant, 1 extra and then only deploy them at the very last road gate on the N and S entrances. Using them anywhere else causes suppression spirals. Armed guards are your only hope of containing legendary prisoners. Even then, sometimes they're not enough and you need even more armed guards (so that they can hopefully shoot the fucker dead)
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Aug 21, 2015 06:29
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CapnAndy posted:I've only had one legendary prisoner show up since I started this latest game, and he had Instigator. It took me about three days of prisoners just randomly deciding to flip their poo poo and get tazed when he was around before I put him on permanent lockdown. And the 2x2 hellholes in supermax have Solitary Doors, because I am simply not dealing with his bullshit any more. yeah legendaries are basically to be treated like dudes from Batman's rogue's gallery - a locked down cell, private everything, and one way out: through a big loving hail of lead. And even then they will sometimes surprise you. I basically use Protective Custody for legendaries. the actual PC guys, like snitches and ex-LEOs, just get thrown in with the min sec block. nobody in min sec wants to stab anyone because they've already got one foot out the door and they're just not interested in quadrupling their sentence by shanking a dude.
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Aug 21, 2015 08:16
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Do prisoners who murder in your prison get time added on? I have very few murders in my current prison and I've never checked before. If they don't they should. I also agree with the guy who said a more informative UI that actually gave you useful information about goings on in your prison would be wonderful because its a pain in the rear end to be building something in one corner of the prison and not notice that there's the makings of a riot on the yard. Maybe there are audio cues or something but I always turn the sound off and listen to podcasts so I wouldn't know. It sucks that the first notification is usually the staff being attacked icon popping up only to scroll over and realize there's 15 dudes kicking off. Just add a standard scrolling text box like most games these days have. It would also be great to have a modifiable auto-pause that triggers on certain events a la Crusader Kings.
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Aug 21, 2015 08:37
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A Pale Horse posted:Do prisoners who murder in your prison get time added on? I have very few murders in my current prison and I've never checked before. If they don't they should. Yes they do. I had my last legendary extend his sentence from 40 years to like 150 years after he murdered a crapton of guards, inmmates and other staff.
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Aug 21, 2015 08:53
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It's a shame that you can't execute people for murdering others in your prison. I don't think they would mess around IRL, letting the same prisoner kill scores and scores of people getting away without any consequence other than being locked down
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Aug 21, 2015 14:58
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OTOH we'd be slightly getting away from the point of the game (prison management/builder) and into courthouse simulator. Could be cool, but I'd rather they polish the main game first and give us those information screens to sperg on. Absorbs Smaller Goons fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 15:16
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The devs are worried about making death row unserious due to how relevant it is today in the US, they want to avoid making your prisons turn into death factories full of prisoners being prepared for the chair, they want it to be rare and allowing murderers in your prison be put on death row would do the opposite, you'll have people allowing murder to go on just to grab that 10k cash. There's also the fact the devs always want there to be doubt if the person is actually guilty or not, having guys on DR you know for certain did the deed destroys that element and turns death row into a easy, guilt free way of making mad money. However you can always easily edit the save, so there's that too. 
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Aug 21, 2015 15:16
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I think the thing this game's missing wrt armed guards is that no prison anywhere puts armed guards into crowds of prisoners; instead they have their own separate catwalks/barred corridors where they can unload on prisoners without fear of getting their weapon used against them. I wish there was some way to do this, as there's no prison that would do it the way PA currently does. E; Also, generally armed guards are using non-lethal rounds to subdue instead of kill. Beanbag shotgun rounds, rubber rifle bullets, etc. would be a lot better options and actually make more sense in a prison environment. Well, they're not exactly non-lethal, but certainly less than lethal in the majority of cases; barring the occasional "accidental" head shot. NatasDog fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 16:10
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Absorbs Smaller Goons posted:OTOH we'd be slightly getting away from the point of the game (prison management/builder) and into courthouse simulator. BillBear posted:The devs are worried about making death row unserious due to how relevant it is today in the US, they want to avoid making your prisons turn into death factories full of prisoners being prepared for the chair, they want it to be rare and allowing murderers in your prison be put on death row would do the opposite, you'll have people allowing murder to go on just to grab that 10k cash. There's also the fact the devs always want there to be doubt if the person is actually guilty or not, having guys on DR you know for certain did the deed destroys that element and turns death row into a easy, guilt free way of making mad money. I can understand how the devs want to do this, but it is still ridiculous that a prisoner can go on murdering and murdering without any form of consequence. Maybe they get sent to court (with you risking a riot, or having to call in riot guards to get them out) and then have a certain percentage of chance of becoming available in the death row queue?
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Aug 21, 2015 19:01
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TheSpartacus posted:You have to watch out about having armed guards around super max legendary prisoners, those fuckers can and will TAKE the shotguns right out of the guards hands and precede to blast away until they are tazered or killed. I've lost over 10 guards to one supermax prisoner who keeps taking batons or guns and getting a kill or two before he is subdued via tazer or shotgun blast, but he is extremely tough so he is never hurt too bad to die. The dickhole kicks off for no reason and just lures those guards into his 3x3 cell of doom. Presumably he becomes eligible for the death penalty, though, right, eventually? Don't have the game, but am following it. Funso Banjo fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 20:54
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Not currently. It would be nice if they added the ability to send problem prisoners elsewhere for a fee, and then maybe a small chance that the octuple murderers you've transferred out might show up again down the road as death row inmates.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:58
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I think the thing about intake control is that when you raise the max sec slider, what you're saying is that YOU are the place where problem prisoners get sent. The thing about the crazy legendary prisoners is that if you don't want them, you can just not ask for any max sec. Also even if someone kills a prisoner or even a guard in real life they don't automatically get thrown on death row. They have to stand trial just like any other crime. And the way problem prisoners get dealt with in real life is already available in-game - perma lockdown or solitary.
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Aug 21, 2015 23:43
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Away all Goats posted:Armed guards are your only hope of containing legendary prisoners. Even then, sometimes they're not enough and you need even more armed guards (so that they can hopefully shoot the fucker dead) I have a gang leader legendary in my SuperMax section right now without any armed guards. I even let my Supermax guys work a bit and have 2 hours of freetime and 2 hours of yard time. As I've said, I think they need to change armed guards and suppression. Maybe fix the AoE or how it affects various prisoner personalities. Keeping a prisoners' needs satisfied is still the best defense.
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Aug 22, 2015 00:01
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PantsFreeZone posted:I have a gang leader legendary in my SuperMax section right now without any armed guards. I even let my Supermax guys work a bit and have 2 hours of freetime and 2 hours of yard time. As I've said, I think they need to change armed guards and suppression. Maybe fix the AoE or how it affects various prisoner personalities. Gang leaders are a special case since they have gangs to (try to) carry out their deeds. I believe they automatically tend to behave unless they have the volatile trait
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Aug 22, 2015 01:50
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Interesting. I had one other Legendary who was often in Solitary, but he didn't kill anyone and I think he got paroled. Question: If the Legendary gang leader is in Supermax, will he only activate plays there? Or do gangs have influence wherever they are located?
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Aug 22, 2015 01:54
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Has anyone ever managed to serve their PC canteens from a shared kitchen, or do you end up hiring the bastards a private chef? I rebuilt my PC area in an expansion that I could airlock off so it'd be safe, and it was next to an existing kitchen/canteen, so I built another canteen coming off that kitchen and going into PC territory and airlocked it between two staff doors and a one block Staff Only zone. I had the logistics set up correctly so that the kitchen was serving both canteens, and I figured that the chefs would simply carry the food into the PC canteen by going through the staff door airlock, but instead they refused to serve it at all and I had to build a separate kitchen. Also is there any point to building multiple Parole rooms? I've got a backlog of 20 prisoners up for parole, but since the meetings require the Warden and the Chief, there's no point, right? Just one room with one table? Between parole and the death row appeals it's moving at a snail's pace.
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Aug 23, 2015 04:37
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As of Alpha 30, the Parole Hearing is attended by the prisoner, their lawyer, and a parole officer. You can build a bunch of parole rooms to help with the backlog.
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Aug 23, 2015 04:48
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gently caress trying to stop PCs from dying, it's way more trouble than it's worth. Snitches get stitches and ACAB anyway
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Aug 23, 2015 12:05
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Seriously, just house snitches in the min sec block. It's a hundred times easier. Everyone in min sec is too busy looking at the door to get any ideas about attacking them.
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Aug 23, 2015 19:16
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Coolguye posted:Seriously, just house snitches in the min sec block. It's a hundred times easier. Everyone in min sec is too busy looking at the door to get any ideas about attacking them. That's a good idea! I only ever have max sec prisoners though because it's more lucrative and interesting that way.
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Aug 24, 2015 04:11
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Coolguye posted:Seriously, just house snitches in the min sec block. It's a hundred times easier. Everyone in min sec is too busy looking at the door to get any ideas about attacking them.
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Aug 24, 2015 04:53
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Splode posted:That's a good idea! I only ever have max sec prisoners though because it's more lucrative and interesting that way. Same. At this point it's easier to just have 2-3 PC cells and keep them locked up 24/7 than building a new mini-wing for minsec dudes. Plus it's like a karmic balance y'know? There are guys locked up who are too dangerous for the rest of the prison and there are guys who are locked up that rest of the prison is too dangerous for. Away all Goats fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 06:00
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Max-sec guys have a much lower chance of being Snitch anyway so the issue is substantially less of a problem there anyway. Snitches getting stitches is primarily a problem when you're mixing min-sec and any other sec (since min-secs are more likely to be Snitches) or are predominantly housing med-sec (who are a mixed bag).CapnAndy posted:Yeah, until the PCers just happen to walk past some max sec dude who's coming back from food or didn't have poo poo to do during Work and then it's stab-time again. Security blocks should be self-contained, or if they're not, there should be guards on patrol over major trafficways. If an inmate isn't confident in his ability to kill a target before being stopped, he won't attack. A guard nearby changes the calculus there.
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Aug 24, 2015 06:13
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Its seriously scary how quick a snitch can die. I made an extremely touch and deadly guy a snitch before letting him into genpop. He walked out of his PC cell and died before he got to his minsec one (walking through a maxsec area with guards in). Like, I figured the dude would be able to at least stab someone back.
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Aug 24, 2015 12:36
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The problem is the PC and target prisoners have no AI that tells them how much danger they are in. You would think they'd be the first in and out of areas, stick near guards, avoid potentially dangerous situations, but that just doesn't happen.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:09
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Three-Phase posted:The problem is the PC and target prisoners have no AI that tells them how much danger they are in. You would think they'd be the first in and out of areas, stick near guards, avoid potentially dangerous situations, but that just doesn't happen. Wow, check out the victim blaming
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Aug 25, 2015 23:52
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Three-Phase posted:The problem is the PC and target prisoners have no AI that tells them how much danger they are in. You would think they'd be the first in and out of areas, stick near guards, avoid potentially dangerous situations, but that just doesn't happen. They are more likely to steal weapons to try and defend themselves, so that's something.
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Aug 26, 2015 00:06
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Maybe some of them have autism? Just wandering into really dangerous situations with little understanding of social norms?
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Aug 26, 2015 02:20
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I don't think social norms and prison go together.
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Aug 26, 2015 09:50
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It's always the little poo poo you can't control that gets PCers shanked. Like, they're coming back from free time and their paths happen to cross everyone going to eat, or they're eating while everyone else is at work and someone who doesn't have a job and is wandering around happens to find them, and then bam. That's why I gave up and airlocked them off from everyone else, it's the only way to keep them safe and I don't like deaths at my prison.
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Aug 26, 2015 16:35
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CapnAndy posted:It's always the little poo poo you can't control that gets PCers shanked. Like, they're coming back from free time and their paths happen to cross everyone going to eat, or they're eating while everyone else is at work and someone who doesn't have a job and is wandering around happens to find them, and then bam. That's why I gave up and airlocked them off from everyone else, it's the only way to keep them safe and I don't like deaths at my prison. I wall them off because they cause more problems than they are worth allowing them to wander around. I build Death Row and PC right on top of each other. 40 PC cells for an 800 cell prison is about right. Takes up a quarter of the across the street land. No big deal. I used to do the PC/Min Sec mixing, but you get a Max Sec or Normal Sec Snitch that's volatile or deadly or whatnot, try to mix them with Min Sec and you have a lot of dead minimum security guys.
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Aug 28, 2015 00:04
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PantsFreeZone posted:I wall them off because they cause more problems than they are worth allowing them to wander around. I build Death Row and PC right on top of each other. 40 PC cells for an 800 cell prison is about right. Takes up a quarter of the across the street land. No big deal.
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Aug 28, 2015 00:59
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Permanent lockdown fixes this problem. Snitches get to sit in their cell all day.
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Aug 28, 2015 01:28
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CapnAndy posted:Did you built them their own kitchen to service the PC-only canteen or did you manage to get a kitchen that could serve a mixed canteen and also cross a staff-only airlock to serve PC too? I couldn't pull that off and it confuses and angers me (I built the PC and shared canteens next to each other and separated only by a wall specifically so I wouldn't have to make a PC-only kitchen). I build a cleaning room sized kitchen that services PC, Death Row and 1 of my massive Solitary blocks. My biggest issue with my current prison is servicing a Shop to Max Sec, Super Max and PC (all on the same side of the road) without letting any of them work outside of their respective zones. I think I did finally solve it. Min Sec guys can pass through the center of PC/DR/Max/SuperMax and exit without getting murdered. **On the Shop, make sure you allow access to everyone to this, especially if you can't quite feed every prisoner, prisoners eat from the shop if they happen to be starving.
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Aug 28, 2015 03:08
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It's time for the final alpha update before full release in October... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-DOViwa-q4 The major new feature this update is an optional "random event system" that introduces new challenges that can pop up every now and then:
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Aug 28, 2015 11:46
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Time to start triple layering my fences.
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Aug 28, 2015 12:03
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If you're wanting to put events onto your old save, you can just bung EnabledEvents true into your file
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Aug 28, 2015 13:53
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I'm a little bit disappointed by this update. With gangs, they added an interesting mechanic that increased the difficulty but the events in this update seem to be annoying for the sake of just being annoying. Ah well, at least it's optional. Edit- For instance: Gangs- oh poo poo, they're all in a cell conspiring! and now they're making a move on the yard! Events- I have to delete all the weights machines in my yard/dezone my visitor rooms for an arbitrary period of time. (some of them are a little bit more interesting) Inevitablelongshot fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 14:18
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