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poptart_fairy posted:My point is that environmental story telling is a thing games have been doing since forever, and if "what else is there" is your response to "Her Story as a resurgence" then that just kinda proves my point further. I misunderstood what you're trying to say. I don't make the connection, or at least I haven't heard anyone call Her Story a "resurgence." But as for Gone Home I'll argue that "resurgence" is an apt description. Yeah, games have been doing it forever but rarely has it been boiled it down to its purest form. No combat, no puzzles, just a highly detailed interactive diorama and after Gone Home the "walking simulator" exploded. FMV games will probably never explode. Even Japan turned live action into an art form for VNs and they're like the least represented.
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Aug 29, 2015 07:20
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There's no real reason you couldn't make one of Telltale's games as an FMV game, and it'd probably be a pretty drat good game, there's just not much reason to do so. (Okay, you'd lose a bit by just doing a shot-for-shot remake of The Walking Dead as an FMV game or whatever, but it could be done in principle)
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Aug 29, 2015 07:24
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RightClickSaveAs posted:This sounds awesome, thanks thread for letting me know about it! How "finished" does the game feel up until where it ends, is that the only reason it's in early access? To me, Layers of Fear felt like a completed game that had the last 1/4th of the narrative chopped off. Looking at the developer description for why it's in early access, it sounds like this was intentional. They say they want to leave the ending unknown until they've had a chance to get some player input that they can add to the game, like they're looking to add new types of scares--which is interesting, because the game is already a smorgasbord of playing off of a variety of different types of phobias, anyway. I do want to clarify: Layers of Fear is more similar to Gone Home than any other game I can think of, and I specifically thought of Gone Home while I was playing it. So you can expect something like that, but there are a few key differences: - Layers of Fear, at some point, becomes much more linear than Gone Home. Personally, though, I did not feel that this detracted from the sense of exploration and discovery that forms the core of the game. - I never saw Gone Home as a horror game, or felt that it had any horror elements other than a couple fakeout moments. Layers of Fear is very blatantly a horror game and plays it up as much as possible. - Layers of Fear is not a heartwarming teenage lesbian love story.
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Aug 29, 2015 11:02
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In David Cage's defense, he never ended a game by literally IMing the player and saying "GET IT?! DO YOU GET IT?!"
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Aug 29, 2015 12:45
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man you guys got me. ethan carter is shitter tho. Wanderer posted:I wonder: if you made a game that had the same systems as Gone Home, with an utterly non-lethal sandbox that you can explore for as long as you like without restrictions or problems, but the building was a crack house and you were trying to figure out who killed eight dudes with a chainsaw in the lobby, would people still be quite as hyperbolically upset about it? i mean that would be a more interesting premise so i don't see why you'd even question that. gone home has stupid red herrings about this creepy old guy into the occult or whatever and sets it during a dark and stormy night when it's a coming of age story about young love and a family drifting apart. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 29, 2015 14:28
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Niggurath posted:You gotta turn off the tv. I couldn't get the spider off my face and that made me pretty sad. Horror Games Megathread - I couldn't get the spider off my face and that made me pretty sad.
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Aug 29, 2015 14:50
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Until Dawn is pretty solid so far, although some of the mechanics are kinda odd. The totem thing in particular. Also I would say something about Gone Home but you're not going to get me to stroll through that minefield.
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Aug 29, 2015 15:01
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Last of Us really did have awesome environmental storytelling, I bought a PS3 basically just to play that, but it's also a huge game with a huge budget. Truckloads of money went into making that all come together so well. Heavy Rain was really entertaining. I've been entertained by at least 90% of each of the David Cage games I've played, and I think I've played them all at this point except Omikron. I have that on Steam, I just haven't taken the time to get into it yet. Beyond Two Souls was slightly less lunacy and felt bigger and more polished, and even had some really decent (if cliched) emotional story beats, but still had to go off the rails at the end. Wanton Spoon posted:To me, Layers of Fear felt like a completed game that had the last 1/4th of the narrative chopped off. Looking at the developer description for why it's in early access, it sounds like this was intentional. They say they want to leave the ending unknown until they've had a chance to get some player input that they can add to the game, like they're looking to add new types of scares--which is interesting, because the game is already a smorgasbord of playing off of a variety of different types of phobias, anyway.
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Aug 29, 2015 15:46
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heavy rain outright cheats (you sometimes control the killer shortly after he's killed and his thoughts do not have anything to do with killing whent hat's literally all he'd be thinking about). it's written by somebody who has done absolutely zero research into policing or serial killers. http://www.destructoid.com/how-heavy-rain-has-lowered-the-bar-for-game-narrative-165426.phtml http://www.gamecritics.com/daniel-weissenberger/heavy-rain-is-in-many-ways-not-well-written-part-1
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Aug 29, 2015 15:49
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Groovelord Neato posted:heavy rain outright cheats (you sometimes control the killer shortly after he's killed and his thoughts do not have anything to do with killing whent hat's literally all he'd be thinking about). it's written by somebody who has done absolutely zero research into policing or serial killers. I've heard Heavy Rain was bad, but gently caress any game that does this. There are a couple of Knox's rules that I can forgive being broken, but "The detective must not himself commit the crime." and "The detective must not light on any clues which are not instantly produced for the inspection of the reader." are unforgivable. "The detective" pertaining to whoever the player is controlling at the time 
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Aug 29, 2015 15:54
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Groovelord Neato posted:heavy rain outright cheats (you sometimes control the killer shortly after he's killed and his thoughts do not have anything to do with killing whent hat's literally all he'd be thinking about). it's written by somebody who has done absolutely zero research into policing or serial killers. I went to wikipedia to spoil myself on the plot to this game I'll never play and this is hilarious quote:Ethan soon discovers that Shaun may become the next victim of the Origami Killer, and is forced to go through five trials (danger, suffering, brutal suffering, murder and sacrifice)
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Aug 29, 2015 15:55
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Danaru posted:I've heard Heavy Rain was bad, but gently caress any game that does this. There are a couple of Knox's rules that I can forgive being broken, but "The detective must not himself commit the crime." and "The detective must not light on any clues which are not instantly produced for the inspection of the reader." are unforgivable. "The detective" pertaining to whoever the player is controlling at the time the killer is literally a private detective (retired cop) trying to figure out who the killer is with one of the victim's moms.
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Aug 29, 2015 15:56
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Groovelord Neato posted:the killer is literally a private detective (retired cop) trying to figure out who the killer is with one of the victim's moms. And it is a pretty piss poor twist too. It is completely out of the blue and really was just for the sake of a twist. Unrelated I confused Super massive Games with Super giant games and was really looking forward to the awesome Until Dawn soundtrack
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Aug 29, 2015 16:04
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David Cage games often have scenes that work fine or even great in a vacuum but an overarching story that is beyond retarded. By the way, please count how many journalists who reviewed Heavy Rain said anything about how 'the twist' in Heavy Rain is insanely dumb.
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Aug 29, 2015 16:06
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Unrelated I confused Super massive Games with Super giant games and was really looking forward to the awesome Until Dawn soundtrack Right there with you, bud. "And then...Kid finds himself a saw deathtrap. Old, but still sharp enough to cut."
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Aug 29, 2015 16:07
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Groovelord Neato posted:the killer is literally a private detective (retired cop) trying to figure out who the killer is with one of the victim's moms. I that 
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Aug 29, 2015 16:08
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Danaru posted:I Yeah, we are supposed to buy the crazy serial killer is this middle aged private detective with a charitable streak because his brother drowned as a kid. Like, really? That is your twist?
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Aug 29, 2015 16:49
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Groovelord Neato posted:i mean that would be a more interesting premise so i don't see why you'd even question that. gone home has stupid red herrings about this creepy old guy into the occult or whatever and sets it during a dark and stormy night when it's a coming of age story about young love and a family drifting apart. The "red herring" sets up who the characters are, their personality, and the overall atmosphere. I don't know how this detracts from the game other than your personal preference.
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Aug 29, 2015 16:49
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it has no effect on the plot or characters, it does change the atmosphere but that's because it makes you think the game it going in a different direction than it does (in addition to the whole "dark and stormy night" thing they did when a summertime late afternoon into evening timeframe would've been more fitting for the tone of the narrative).
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Aug 29, 2015 17:09
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oh i guess we're going into no spoiler zone for heavy rain, which i don't mind because by god the game has the dumbest plot ever. i'm sure these are points that are repeated in the two (quite good) articles Groovelord Neato linked to The Origami Killer So if you are unaware, the whole plot of the game is there being a Super Serial Killer, the Origami Killer (OK) who kidnaps and kills children. the reason the Origami Killer is a Super Serial Killer as opposed to, well, a serial killer, is because the city of Heavy Rain is full of them. the modus operandi of the OK is: 1. kidnap child 2. sends father of missing child a box full of origami animals, with instructions 3. instructions will lead father to several Saw-like traps to "test his love" (BRUTAL SUFFERING) 4. final instruction will lead father to child, who's trapped in a place that will fill up with rainwater which drowns child if father fails before the events of HR, every single father has failed/quit/died. at least 4-5 of these fathers who die also disappear when their respective children disappear, so they are usually listed as suspects and then the case goes cold. ok so now u know how dumb the Super Serial Killer is. in this game, u control 4 main characters, but let's talk about the unimportant ones first Madison (David Cage likes White Lingerie) Madison is The Girl. she is a reporter with a cool motorbike, and she has night anxieties or whatever, her personality is unimportant. she has zero significance to the plot except for two things: one, she showers, strips at gunpoint for a fat man, and has sex with Ethan. she wears white lingerie two, she goes "investigate" and then gets kidnapped and nearly killed by serial killers, inadvertently killing them in the process if you play well. technically, madison is the 1st character of HR, since she was in the Demo. she fights a serial killer there Madison is special in that her death does not affect the plot.When she discovers OK's identity, it comes to naught because the main characters have found out in their own ways. if she survives to the end she contributes to OK's death, but other characters can do that too. so yes Madison is useless except being The Girl Drugs FBI Man Nohman Jayden (lol) takes a lot of drugs. this has no significance to the plot except i think he can die frm drug overdose he uses the drug to use his fancy Oculus Rift FBI interface poo poo which does cool things like make your office look like the Mars surface. other than that i dunno he has angry teethy police detective as his partner. the PD is very aggressive all the time, and im sure people thought he was the OK but no, it's just David Cage writing a bad character whose only trait is "rage" or "violence" Nohman is really, really incompetent as a crime investigator so it's a surprise he discovers the OK's identity and also, contributes to OK's death in the endgame. other than that, he has no personality. the fact he has no personality other than "drugs" is not important to the plot Ethan (jesus christ) here we go, our MC. in the prologue, Ethan loses his first son, Press X to Jason, to the most convoluted and melodramatic car crash u can think of. Press X, a (10? 12?) year old child, runs across the road to catch a balloon and then runs back when his dad calls him and gets knocked by a car. my niece is 10 yrs old and her reaction to balloon is "ok i guess but i want an iphone". like loving seriously? anyway, ethan was also hit by said car, and he emerges from a coma years later to have constant blackouts and be depressive. also he has joint custody of his less loved son, MacGuffin. so yeah MacGuffin got himself kidnapped, and Ethan's blackouts get insane bad. like, he literally blinks and he's in another part of town, holding an origami crane. wow! is ethan the ORIGAMI KILLeR????????????????? (no) anyway ethan gets those box of origami animals, does the trials, etc. why doesnt he call the police WHO KNOWS so, all this while ethan is going "am I the ORIGAMI KILLER???" and he has blackouts and poo poo. so we are supposed to think: "man, this guy who nearly dies so many times, loses his fingers, gets burnt, gets electrocuted, etc, may be the Super Serial Killer, but is also content to go through his own traps he devised himself! David Cage is such a good writer" but really it's because in the original draft, there's supposed to be some supernatural poo poo in Heavy Rain. Ethan's blackouts by right should lead him to a different playable area, where he swims around in a Flooded Dream and finds clues etc. this is because Ethan has a Area 51 Psychic Link with the OK (like Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy!) it was dropped because David Cage thought it was dumb so he left the blakouts scenes in and said "ok let's make it look like ethan is the killer", thus creating new plot problems instead btw, if Ethan gets killed by the police after he finds MacGuffin, he will lie down in a cross position like jesus christ. why is there a christ symbolism in this game? because david cage is a good writer THE loving ORIGAMI KILLER is Scott Shelby, the 4th character you play wow! innovative! u played the murderer after all. Scott Shelby was introduced to us an angry retired PI who's investigating the crime (one last job hurrrghhh time to drink whisky) for an unnamed client. the client being... hismelf! chrotle chortle. he usually dies in the end WHY THE gently caress IS SCOTT SHELBY THE loving ORIGAMI KILLER when he was young his dad neglected his family. he played with his bro at a construction yard and the bro got caught in a well, and drowned in rainwater after some time that's why he is mad at all dads, and he is (i think?) sure there is no Worthy Father in this world and so he kidnaps kids and put the dads through terribad trials. he wants to find the Most Worthy Father which is Ethan if you succeed in finding MacGuffin THEN WHY DID SCOTT TRY TO SHOOT ETHAN WHEN HE DID HIS SUPER SERIAL KILLER REVEAL because david cage is a good writer who forgot the plotline of his main antagonist How David Cage is an Intellectually Dishonest Writer / the OK reveal is dumb af so there are many many instances why David Cage can't write (see: Madison) but Scott being the OK is the worst of all. here are how the game actively lies to u to blindsight you into not suspecting Shelby: 1. a gameplay mechanic is pressing a button to hear your character's thoughts. this is usually to "clue" u in as to what action you should take to advance the scene/story. at no point is shelby's thoughts that of a serial killer but just a "hmm i need to investigate this like a PI". it's not even cleverly writing to make him think in a very subtle way. the man is pretending to be a PI in his own thoughts 2. before the reveal, Shelby's plot is going to all the previous victim's families to ostentatiously assist in solving MacGuffin's disappearance, but in reality to collect their evidences and to hide his tracks. so in this process he does these: (a) prevent the suicide of a grieving mother instead of letting her die and collecting the evidence (b) befriend HookerMom (she's important) and letting her be part of the "investigation" team even though he has at least one good opportunity to let her leave (c) save the HookerMom from drowning (d) save a shopkeeper dad from an armed robbery so yes he actively makes his evidence collecting more difficult by pretending to be a PI even when he doesn't have to, it's awesome 3. there is this 3rd suspect, Rich Brat, who is super-telegraphed to be the OK but really he's just a massive weirdo. Rich Brat's dad tries to kill Shelby and fails, so Shelby has the option to return to Rich Brat's mansion and flip the gently caress out and shoot down every single bodyguard inside, and he gets to leave without a single mark in his permanent record and seriously how does that help with his mission 4. why does he even need to meet Rich Brat and question him????? 5. (the most often used example) in one scene, Scott and HookerMom goes to meet Scott's old friend to chase a lead on typewriters. while they are there, the friend gets killed after revealing a key evidence. the evidence disappears, and 911 has already been called and they need to run fast The Origami Killer, in trying to conceal evidence, calls 911 on himself, thus rendering his evidence-concealing more difficult than necessary i think there are more and i'm fairly sure i got it wrong with Rich Brat, but that is how David Cage, best writer of video games, hosed up the twist reveal of the OK in a plot-heavy game what's important about Hookermom? if HookerMom survives and every other character dies, she'll return in the epilogue and kill Shelby! because she found out he's the OK. through means which are explained as "david cage is a good writer" thats way more words than i expected to write but Heavy Rain is my personal prime example of a story which could be good if ONLY a good editor was present. it's kinda why i was quite happy with Until Dawn's plot, despite a bunch of problems, but at the very least at no point was it ever dishonest to the audience The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 29, 2015 17:13
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also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t0uCWjQ6Og
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Aug 29, 2015 17:20
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Also since spooky horror scarey games are for 10 years olds it's important to have some sort of iconic monster in them.
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Aug 29, 2015 17:27
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the spook iconic monster is a fat grumpy man in a brown trenchcoat
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Aug 29, 2015 17:33
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Heavy Rain was also voiced almost entirely by French people who sound like english is maybe their third language, the kids are especially terrible and obvious. I think Shelby was one of the only actual American guys voicing an American guy, which was why he has some of the only reads that sound pretty good from what I remember. It's also unfortunate because Shelby was one of the only dudes I liked much, other than Nahman Jaaayden for being (Unintentionally?) funny.
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Aug 29, 2015 17:41
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Yeah Scott Shelby was the only likable person in the game. He was kickass.
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Aug 29, 2015 17:57
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Lol if you didn't learn your lesson about David Cage with Indigo Prophecy.
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Aug 29, 2015 17:57
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I hated Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy but I love Beyond because it's just completely batshit in a very particular way. Like the same way Heavy Rain is basically z-grade direct to video serial killer movie: the game, Beyond is 70s paranormal movie that is almost potentially kinda sorta interesting but they just didn't care: the game. Also for those that care, Beyond's framerate is what it is to be "more cinematic," it was originally made to run at 60FPS and I even played demos of it on PS3 that did so but they changed it. 
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Aug 29, 2015 17:57
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Note that everyone who tries to kill Madison (tons of people) does so in a really creepy sexualized manner, like a doctor who sells drugs illegally drugging/clubbing her unconscious, strapping her on a table, then menacingly closing an electric drill to her vagina unless you manage to escape. Or how she wants to have sex with Ethan even though he's wounded and his son is literally hours away from drowning. By the way, if you say 'no' to her, the game interprets this as Ethan never wanting to have a relationship with her, ever.
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Aug 29, 2015 18:00
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Beyond was a lot of fun and feels like a big, slightly dumb movie.oldpainless posted:Yeah Scott Shelby was the only likable person in the game. He was kickass.
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Aug 29, 2015 18:01
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Lol if you didn't learn your lesson about David Cage with Indigo Prophecy. Indigo Prophecy is one of my guiltiest pleasures. It's just so hilariously and unapologetically terrible
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Aug 29, 2015 18:01
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The opening scene to Indigo Prophecy, which was also the demo which probably got a lot of people to buy the whole thing, was legitimately awesome. I should have known there was no way they could keep up that level of choice and interactivity through a whole game though.
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Aug 29, 2015 18:03
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Indigo Prophecy even with it's cheesiness, was legit good when it was still in the realm of murder mystery. Just a shame how fast it turned into crazy Matrix fleas trying to kill you in your office.RightClickSaveAs posted:I completely forgot about the random blackouts he had that were never explained or even explored further. That was thanks to the huge rewrite to get rid of the paranormal stuff they were gonna have at first. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 29, 2015 18:05
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it's just kind of bizarre that the people that most want to make their games plot-heavy or have strong narratives end up making the worst games (and I use game loosely as they're usually barely interactive movies) with absolutely no attempt to actually use the medium of the video game and integrate the plot/narrative/characterization into gameplay.
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Aug 29, 2015 18:09
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i also forgot to point out another David Cage is a Dishonest Writer thing which is: when Shelby (fav char) is explaining his Origami Killer motives, he says he chose Ethan because he witnessed Ethan trying to save Press X to Jason in the prologue, and that is so very heroic and Most Worthy Father material! we are shown in flashback the same scene of Ethan's attempt etc and Shelby standing in the crowd so naturally u the gamer would be thinking "wow! how did i miss Shelby in the crowd in the prologue scene? that is such amazing foreshadowing!" the answer is: Scott Shelby does not appear in the prologue at all and there's zero foreshadowing VIDEO GAME WRITING!!!
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Aug 29, 2015 18:10
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Heavy Rain is my favorite David Cage game cause you can let Bad Cop beat the poo poo out of Ethan's psychiatrist, who is modeled after David Cage.
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Aug 29, 2015 18:14
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Ekster posted:Note that everyone who tries to kill Madison (tons of people) does so in a really creepy sexualized manner, like a doctor who sells drugs illegally drugging/clubbing her unconscious, strapping her on a table, then menacingly closing an electric drill to her vagina unless you manage to escape. Or how she wants to have sex with Ethan even though he's wounded and his son is literally hours away from drowning. Don't forget that even her introduction, the apartment dream sequence where burglars or something are trying to get her, is pretty rapey too. Also for people who never played his other game Omikron: Nomad Soul, you're basically a tech ghost thing that controls various people in this future setting. One of the earlier things I remember is the option to bone the girlfriend of the guy who's body you're in. David Cage also ogled and was weird to Ellen Page throughout the development of Beyond: Two Souls, including apparently busting out an album of kid pictures of her he got from I forget where even. David Cage is a pretty big creepo. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 29, 2015 18:17
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's just kind of bizarre that the people that most want to make their games plot-heavy or have strong narratives end up making the worst games (and I use game loosely as they're usually barely interactive movies) with absolutely no attempt to actually use the medium of the video game and integrate the plot/narrative/characterization into gameplay. not horror but an amazing example is Sunset by those really pretentious people who did The Path. the plot has something to do with a country approaching civil war and the protagonist has to survive by working as a maid in an affluent family the gameplay involves u going into an elevator and cleaning up the apartment everyday it bombed and the really pretentious people shut down their company and said gently caress YOU! to videogames forever. it's fantastic
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Aug 29, 2015 18:17
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Yardbomb posted:David Cage also apparently ogled and was weird to Ellen Page throughout the development of Beyond: Two Souls.  Her full model is accurate, even though you wouldn't see any actual nudity in the proper game.Yardbomb posted:David Cage is a pretty big creepo.
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Aug 29, 2015 18:22
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The Saddest Rhino posted:not horror but an amazing example is Sunset by those really pretentious people who did The Path. the plot has something to do with a country approaching civil war and the protagonist has to survive by working as a maid in an affluent family Is this that game where the devs flipped the gently caress out telling all gamers to die on twitter, and how it was everyone's fault but theirs that the gameplay was awful? I remember seeing the freak out but never actually saw what game it was based around.
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Aug 29, 2015 18:25
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Forgot to mention,
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Aug 29, 2015 18:26
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