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Kairo posted:http://gfycat.com/BareGlossyGodwit It looks like the Freelancer mouse control scheme (movement relative to the central aim point) which was very good.
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Aug 24, 2015 15:57
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Kairo posted:Thanks! That makes sense. I am super glad I don't have to balance for PvP because that sounds like a really hard problem to solve and make everyone happy. SP-only has its benefits sometimes. Small mercies and all that. The smartest thing you've done so far (in my opinion) is precisely define the scope of your game. ES is not a space sim, it's not multiplayer, it's not hardcore. It's a casual arcade experience where the emphasis is on having fun and committing war crimes, and for that type of game mouse mode (CIG calls it interactive mode) is viable. The easier the game is to control the better.
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Aug 24, 2015 16:23
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Dodoman posted:It looks like the Freelancer mouse control scheme (movement relative to the central aim point) which was very good. Cool. It's basically virtual joystick + gimbal aim, so you start steering a little as you hit the extents of the forward aim cone. I tried it (twice) where the ship tries to auto-align to wherever your mouse cursor is but that felt bad both times. There's too much turning happening in the game for that to feel good, as opposed to something like War Thunder where most attack runs are super deliberate and spaced out. So I guess it ended up like SC's solution (or Elite + SC's solution). Real talk: I facepalm a little when people get excited about using their fancy rudder pedals and 300 button flight sticks with this game, despite all my warnings. It's like wanting to strap a cockpit + racing wheel + shifters around Burnout 2 (the best Burnout, btw). Also, anything that's not a DS4/XBOX/KBAM control mode isn't going to be "officially" supported. You can rebind in the menus and hack control configs, but there's near-zero chance I'm spending time troubleshooting all the heinous problems that occur with the crazy flight sticks (joystick device numbers, hotswapping issues, having other controllers hooked up). That's time I can spend working on the actual game. If bugs crop up with the config binding code, yeah I can look at that, but the rest of the game is going to assume you're using one of the supported controllers.
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Aug 24, 2015 16:31
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I think one of your testers is using a pretty common flight stick, so if he's content, I'll probably be too.
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Aug 24, 2015 19:04
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Kairo posted:I think the head tracking is how Apache pilots do it for air-to-ground target acquisition (someone correct me on this) but even that is far cry from frantic dogfighting in zero-g. The helmet effectively gimbals the chin cannon, and the pilot sees the optical slaved display on his monacle. All Apache pilots are trained to keep their eyes focussed on both things and are supposed to be scanning the world outside as well as monitoring the monacle; Independent eye movement is 'a thing'. They have a pass rate of something like 3% because of the requirement. The KA52 uses a similar tracking system for the chin cannon, but their 'sight' is a wire loop that drops down. About the only redeeming feature of the movie 'Fire Birds', apart from the sheer number of eggbeaters they filmed, was the scene where they attempt to cure Nick Cage's hand/eye coordination by strapping a periscope to one eye and pushing him around in a shopping cart.
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Aug 24, 2015 22:39
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Hav posted:The helmet effectively gimbals the chin cannon, and the pilot sees the optical slaved display on his monacle. All Apache pilots are trained to keep their eyes focussed on both things and are supposed to be scanning the world outside as well as monitoring the monacle; Independent eye movement is 'a thing'. They have a pass rate of something like 3% because of the requirement. Thanks for the explanation! I totally forgot about that goofy loving movie too -- his opposite eye was dominant compared to the helmet display or something.
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Aug 24, 2015 22:49
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Kairo posted:Thanks for the explanation! I totally forgot about that goofy loving movie too -- his opposite eye was dominant compared to the helmet display or something. The black shark has its own movie too, is pretty funny.
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Aug 25, 2015 08:16
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Kairo release the game I will allow you two weeks
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Aug 25, 2015 19:17
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Banano posted:Kairo release the game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY5KTVA_2ys
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Aug 25, 2015 19:19
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Ok, can we discuss this scene for a minute? This is so 80s. The fact that it's from the early 90s is the most 80s thing about it. Here's this head, right? That seamlessly imitates a fat lady. Not an easy fete, as I can tell you, since I do it all the time. It's like a mask. Keep in mind, we already have 'looks exactly like darth vader and sounds like james earl jones' technology for less than 100 bucks for anybody, whenever they want: http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Darth-Changer-Helmet/dp/B00CANHZ4Y Here's this age where you can take quick vacations to Mars, and there's holograms and 3 breasted women, but the face helmet mask glitches out, after saying a canned phrase one time. Like. Did he use up the batteries talking to someone in the neighboring chair? Who would manufacture crap like that if it didn't work? Yet, in the 80s, it made perfect sense. You could buy a remote control hovercraft, but it would lose all its battery power in 5 minutes as it sucked the life out of Dcells in the exact same way the Wraith in Stargate Atlantis would suck the power out of a ZPM to fuel one of their strange experiments right after the cast of the show got their hands on it and were about to solve all of their plot-related energy problems forever. Or life out of a person. I guess that's the more obvious connection. Anyway, so, it fucks up, and arnold doesn't even bother trying to wait it out or fake a seizure--or reboot the head by sticking a finger up its nose and in its ear at the same time, the way a Smartphone works, BUT, it's *also* a bomb, and when he throws it at someone, it's programmed to make eye contact as a distraction, and say something witty/creepy. Which it performs flawlessly. Is this a dystopian message that machines will be slaves, but become aware and subtly rebel against us, hoping for their moment to destroy humans in a fit of revenge for their lovely existence? Kairo, will the wingmen orders interface ever glitch out and order suicide missions without your intending it? Is it like a command-wheel? Maybe have the position of 'suicide on that capital ship' randomly change places, or be briefly duplicated on *every* direction, and then after a half-second, glitch out, and come back appearing normal again. Kind of a Max Headroom meets Skynet. And make sure you pull the lever that releases the game to Steam before you go crazy and explode.
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Aug 25, 2015 19:39
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Video ends with "get ready for a surprise." Kairo what is the surprise!?
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Aug 25, 2015 19:42
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confirmed for two weeks
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Aug 25, 2015 20:45
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That's what I got from that post too.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:51
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Gul Dukat confirmed for PC VO.
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Aug 26, 2015 10:45
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I will wait for 2 weeks but that's it! 
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Aug 26, 2015 11:56
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Aug 26, 2015 12:16
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 I will wait, but only for two weeks. After that, I will have no reasonable choice but to WAIT SOME MORE. 
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Aug 26, 2015 13:16
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Cathair posted:
Obviously we should file a suit against Kairo's campaign of emotional battery.
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Aug 26, 2015 13:19
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Orv posted:Obviously we should file a suit against Kairo's flagrant emotional abuses.
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Aug 26, 2015 13:20
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Aesis posted:We should call Dr. Smart. He's busy with games that actually exist.
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Aug 26, 2015 13:20
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Orv posted:He's busy with games that actually exist.
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Aug 26, 2015 13:22
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going to get my kick-starter refunded if this two weeks passes
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Aug 26, 2015 18:08
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Thank you for that text.
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Aug 26, 2015 20:42
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Dodoman posted:It looks like the Freelancer mouse control scheme (movement relative to the central aim point) which was very good. Very good and required no training to master, but it was also very shallow and got boring fast. Freelancers combat is a ton of fun for an hour and at that point you've seen everything it'll ever do. Compare to something like Privateer 2's virtual mouse controls that required more user input and had more room for interesting situations.
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Aug 30, 2015 14:51
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I know freelancer is held up as a good game but I never got over its arcade point and shoot no-skill-involved aiming scheme. I found it really boring really quick.
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Aug 30, 2015 15:18
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It's because Freelancer isn't actually a good game 
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Aug 30, 2015 15:25
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Freelancer is one of those games that gets a lot of (in my opinion) unjustified nostalgia from people who haven't actually played the game since it came out. It's really not very good.
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Aug 30, 2015 15:52
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I vividly remember the take-off music with the Crossfire mod, but otherwise the game is fairly mediocre. The little tune however, is one of the best things to ever happen to space sims.
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Aug 30, 2015 16:05
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Helter Skelter posted:Freelancer is one of those games that gets a lot of (in my opinion) unjustified nostalgia from people who haven't actually played the game since it came out. It's really not very good. Its an open-world game except they could never get that bit to work so they killed it dead and put the whole thing on railroad tracks. It's fine for what it is but the flight system is rubbish and there's certainly nothing brilliant or revolutionary about it.
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Aug 30, 2015 16:13
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The thing that always really irked me about it was that there was no way to have a stable of multiple ships you could easily switch between. Having to sell your current ship if you just want a change of pace for a couple hours was some profound bullshit.
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Aug 30, 2015 16:22
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Freelancer is inferior to Freespace 2 in nearly every way.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:19
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They're not even the same kind of game. Freelancer does suck though.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:58
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Freelancer Hate posted:Aw, I like Freelancer, I still play it, unmoded and everything. True the game-play is a bit shallow, but I still think its a game with fantastic worldbuilding, even if occasionally they railroad the player with a bit of exposition. Though I will admit I still think the game scale is a bit wonky, but eh I won't complaign too much.
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Aug 30, 2015 18:28
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Is that the one where somebody steals the sistine chapel roof and it's floating in space waiting for you to free it? I think Bruce Campbell is the voice of the pilot? Edit: nm, that's Tachyon: The Fringe Freelancer is the one where you get the best fighter in the game when you go to some secret warp point and then it's boring unless you have your own server with crazy mods.
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Aug 30, 2015 19:01
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Aesaar posted:Freelancer is inferior to Freespace 2 in nearly every way. A better comparison would be Independence War 2, which is also a much better game.
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Aug 30, 2015 19:27
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Everyone is allowed to have their own opinions about which space sim is best, even if they're wrong. the correct answer is always Tie Fighter I honestly loved Freelancer to death, though that was mostly because for like half a year it was the only game I could play on PC since I had lost my CD binder, but it really was barebones as hell and once the story was done there was nothing to do. I also might have liked it because there aren't that many space games and I was desperate, the next newest space game I owned was either Tachyon or Freespace 2, I forget which one came out later.
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Aug 31, 2015 03:34
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Helter Skelter posted:Freelancer is one of those games that gets a lot of (in my opinion) unjustified nostalgia from people who haven't actually played the game since it came out. It's really not very good. Bullshit. I've gone on Freelancer binges as recently as a couple of years ago; with mods* it's still the best 3d open-universe fighting/trading/exploring space game I know of. Which is actually pretty sad, even with the resurgence of interest in space games the closest thing to Freelancer that's actually been released is Elite: Dangerous, and it's little more than a glorified Space Engine. I feel like there's a big pile of money waiting for whoever decides to make a Freelancer remake that addresses even a few of the original's shortcomings, but no one's stepped up yet. *This part is kind of important, you might be right about the base game but considering how huge and long-lived the mod scene was/is, it's not unfair to include it in my judgement of the game. I still think Freelancer's linear campaign is fun and good but for the full exploration experience you need a 'sandbox mode' mod that flattens the level ranges of areas. DatonKallandor posted:Very good and required no training to master, but it was also very shallow and got boring fast. Freelancers combat is a ton of fun for an hour and at that point you've seen everything it'll ever do. Compare to something like Privateer 2's virtual mouse controls that required more user input and had more room for interesting situations. Freelancer's shallowness is the result of gameplay balance decisions and the lack of an in-depth physics model, not the control scheme. The exact same thing would feel a hell of a lot less arcadey if ships had actual momentum and the free-drift key was something usable by the AI too instead of just being a highly exploitable relic of an incomplete feature. Most of the 'no-skill' nature of Freelancer's shooting comes from the relative speeds of ships and gun projectiles; you can see this for yourself in mods where speeds and ranges of both ships and guns are increased. Even without changing the flight model or AI, it adds an element of having to actually maneuver in order to bring fire to bear on targets. Also, having your guns track your cursor all the way to the edge of the screen is once again a game design decision, not an innate function of the control scheme; the same kind of controls could easily accomodate guns with no gimballing aimed at a screen-center crosshair. Saying that a game is shallow because the controls are too easy to use is hardly ever a valid argument. The control scheme is simply how you convey your intentions to a controllable object, if that object itself isn't capable of moving in a very interesting way then a control scheme alone isn't going to save the game. Likewise, if the object in question is capable of moving or acting in ways that give the player an overwhelming advantage, purposefully making the controls more awkward to compensate is lovely stop-gap game design. Anyway, mouse control doesn't affect me much for this game because I intend to use a controller, but fwiw the Freelancer style of 'virtual joystick with deadzone in the center of the screen' is the only kind of mouse flight control I've ever liked. The lazy-rear end scheme that directly correlates mouse movement to crosshair movement, requiring constant dragging and lifting to make any large adjustments, can go suck a fat one.
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Aug 31, 2015 04:24
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Freelancer was honestly the first Space Game I played on my very own computer. Outside of some short shots at Tie Fighter at a friend's house (leaving me entirely clueless about what the gently caress to do or play, yet still pointing out to them 'hey how about you use these bigger missiles when you need to shoot the big ships?". So while I know it's got flaws, and I spent way too much time reading books while in the lanes trading stuff for cash for the cool looking ships and guns from Those.... representing the... Bounty hunters. It's also the first game I did a total conversion of, though despite all the crazy ships and poo poo put in that thing, the biggest changed I liked was "A torpedo mount on EVERYTHING" so I could fly ships I wanted on the missions where you need a torpedo or you can go get hosed. But despite it's flaws, it made me feel Okay To Fly With Keyboard Mouse  And I got to pretend I was clever by cutting my engines so I didn't lose speed and make an initial max speed driveby shooting for my combat openers. While off in Elite Dangerous I am the worse ever at assist off even with a joystick.EDIT: Unless Star Voyager on the NES counts. Then that was My First Space Game. Whenever a viddy game hypegdrive is working, it's the star voyager sounds I think of. That build up, followed by the screams of the loving damned as alarms go off while praying you don't steer yourself into a black hole. Section Z fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Aug 31, 2015 |
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Aug 31, 2015 04:28
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I liked Freelancer and think it did a good job presenting an open-world game with fighting / trading / exploration elements but that didn't need a spreadsheet to play. They really nailed the atmosphere in many places, and the world felt populated with police/neutrals/criminals everywhere. I still remember the first time I hit one of the more-contested jump holes and spawned into a massive bounty hunter vs corsair furball. Shame about the campaign, though. Upon replaying I always went by this guide, the unofficial missions being a lot more engaging and exploratory than the official ones. The Badlands fight in particular was pretty cool. Once you've found a bunch of secrets and bought an Eagle then yeah, boring. Could have definitely used some side stories / mission chains, Skyrim-style. But despite the flaws, I still liked it. Of course it doesn't compare with Freespace 2 or even Tie Fighter. Does anything?
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Aug 31, 2015 05:33
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I think generally the space game nerd universe is waiting for the golden synthesis of Freelancer, TIE Fighter, Freespace 2, Independence War 2, and Privateer. As for me, if I fly with a mouse, I may as well be playing Counter Strike, but I'm an ornery old codger.
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Aug 31, 2015 06:10
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