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Lurdiak posted:I mean, not really. Do you think Tony would've opened up about any of this to Annie? Or that Tony's remorse makes his years of neglect totally justified from Annie's perspective? Donny also has a wife and a daughter. He could be thinking, "What if this happened to Kat?"
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Aug 31, 2015 21:00
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Lurdiak posted:I mean, not really. Do you think Tony would've opened up about any of this to Annie? Or that Tony's remorse makes his years of neglect totally justified from Annie's perspective? It's not about him opening up to Annie or not, it's about him opening up about things that are clearly painful and traumatic to him. Even if you think Tony's in the wrong in more ways than he admits a friend would try to show some support. The only reason for not doing so to me would be Donny not wanting to do so while he knows Annie's watching.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:03
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YF-23 posted:It's not about him opening up to Annie or not, it's about him opening up about things that are clearly painful and traumatic to him. Even if you think Tony's in the wrong in more ways than he admits a friend would try to show some support. The only reason for not doing so to me would be Donny not wanting to do so while he knows Annie's watching. It's possible Tony needed someone to listen more than he needed support. He's an emotionally difficult person.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:10
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Tony makes it kinda hard to be his friend.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:12
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Tenebrais posted:Tony seems like the kind of person who would get really freaked out if someone touched him when he was asleep. Actually, Tony seems like the kind of person who was touched exactly once by his mother. I looked at every panel of the last three chapters again, and he doesn't have any physical contact with anyone. (The ether stuff does not count.) Presumably he touched Surma at some point, but I am starting to doubt that as well. Maybe he was also born in a vat.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:21
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Air is lava! posted:Actually, Tony seems like the kind of person who was touched exactly once by his mother. I looked at every panel of the last three chapters again, and he doesn't have any physical contact with anyone. (The ether stuff does not count.) Presumably he touched Surma at some point, but I am starting to doubt that as well. Maybe he was also born in a vat. Tony is a forest animal that turned human.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:39
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Air is lava! posted:Actually, Tony seems like the kind of person who was touched exactly once by his mother. I looked at every panel of the last three chapters again, and he doesn't have any physical contact with anyone. (The ether stuff does not count.) Presumably he touched Surma at some point, but I am starting to doubt that as well. Maybe he was also born in a vat. There's a picture of his arm around Surma and hers around him, but other than that I don't think there's anything. Maybe his mother touched him too much.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:42
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Rei_ posted:looking forward to Donny turning out to be Diego's brain uploaded into a clone body This is more likely than Renard killing Tony.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:48
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I want the next panel to be Tony teaching class the next morning, unshaven, hungover as gently caress and stinking of booze.
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Aug 31, 2015 22:55
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YF-23 posted:It's not about him opening up to Annie or not, it's about him opening up about things that are clearly painful and traumatic to him. Even if you think Tony's in the wrong in more ways than he admits a friend would try to show some support. The only reason for not doing so to me would be Donny not wanting to do so while he knows Annie's watching. i think the showing of support that tony wants and get here is donny continuing to hang out with him even though he is a maximum spaz he's not exactly a hug it out kinda guy
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Aug 31, 2015 23:03
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Tony definitely had contact with Surma, both emotional and physical. That one panel really says a lot about the two of them. Especially keeping in mind that it's followed by this page:  It's not just that he hides from everyone but Donnie and Surma, it's that Annie in particular is hard for him to deal with. We got some hints about why in this chapter and in the Brinnie chapters; he thinks she blames him for her death, he's terrible at dealing with emotional intimacy, and basically the dude is a huge mess.
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Aug 31, 2015 23:35
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Pistol_Pete posted:I want the next panel to be Tony teaching class the next morning, unshaven, hungover as gently caress and stinking of booze.
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Aug 31, 2015 23:40
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idonotlikepeas posted:Tony definitely had contact with Surma, both emotional and physical. Don't forget that he seems to, on some level, actively resent his daughter "taking" his wife's soul, a thing he can't seem to let go of. This is why I think tony is still a bad guy.
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Sep 1, 2015 00:11
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UndyingShadow posted:Don't forget that he seems to, on some level, actively resent his daughter "taking" his wife's soul, a thing he can't seem to let go of. This is why I think tony is still a bad guy. There's absolutely nothing to indicate he resents Annie for this, other than old speculation about what his feelings towards her might be (which just got resolved in this chapter).
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Sep 1, 2015 00:22
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UndyingShadow posted:Don't forget that he seems to, on some level, actively resent his daughter "taking" his wife's soul, a thing he can't seem to let go of. This is why I think tony is still a bad guy. No, I don't agree. That was the assumption readers had but this entire last chapter has been disproving that notion.
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Sep 1, 2015 00:23
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UndyingShadow posted:Don't forget that he seems to, on some level, actively resent his daughter "taking" his wife's soul, a thing he can't seem to let go of. This is why I think tony is still a bad guy. Please catch up with the comic. Spoilers Tony mostly blames himself and knows he is a lovely dad to Annie.
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Sep 1, 2015 00:32
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Is that skull the same as the one in the cave?
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Sep 1, 2015 00:36
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EmmyOk posted:Is that skull the same as the one in the cave? that is a coyote skull (it's Coyote)
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Sep 1, 2015 00:42
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idonotlikepeas posted:It's not just that he hides from everyone but Donnie and Surma, it's that Annie in particular is hard for him to deal with. We got some hints about why in this chapter and in the Brinnie chapters; he thinks she blames him for her death, he's terrible at dealing with emotional intimacy, and basically the dude is a huge mess. I don't think he explicitly said that he thinks she blames him. It's left vague, but the one thing he explicitly says is that he blames himself for it; and from that stem a lot of emotions that confuse his position. Instead of thinking that Annie hates him for failing to save Surma, he more likely believes himself to be unworthy to stand by her as a father due to his failure. The two are not mutually exclusive, but I think the second is more explicit than the first.
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Sep 1, 2015 00:57
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YF-23 posted:I don't think he explicitly said that he thinks she blames him. It's left vague, but the one thing he explicitly says is that he blames himself for it; and from that stem a lot of emotions that confuse his position. Instead of thinking that Annie hates him for failing to save Surma, he more likely believes himself to be unworthy to stand by her as a father due to his failure. The two are not mutually exclusive, but I think the second is more explicit than the first. http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1549 i mean i guess it's a little bit open to interpretation, but that's the straightforward one
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Sep 1, 2015 01:30
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Pistol_Pete posted:I want the next panel to be Tony teaching class the next morning, unshaven, hungover as gently caress and stinking of booze. "Before we can begin...Katerina. Go to the nearest Jack-in-the-Box and get me a dozen bacon cheeseburgers. The class will sit in silence until you return."
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Sep 1, 2015 03:09
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EmmyOk posted:Is that skull the same as the one in the cave? The Coyote skull is Coyote saying "nice dream you got there, mind if I visit?" because next page he's talking to Annie.
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Sep 1, 2015 09:29
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2015 10:17
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UndyingShadow posted:Don't forget that he seems to, on some level, actively resent his daughter "taking" his wife's soul, a thing he can't seem to let go of. This is why I think tony is still a bad guy. Regarding this page: This is a man who has just that moment been told that his wife is dying and he can't do anything to prevent it. People take time to process poo poo like this. If he truly blamed Annie for taking Surma's soul he wouldn't have been glad Zimmy stopped his soul-extraction surgery (which he started without knowing it would harm Annie).
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Sep 1, 2015 10:33
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Entire arc will have been worth it if Renard draws on Tony's face in the bonus page.
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Sep 1, 2015 10:34
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Dogwood Fleet posted:Entire arc will have been worth it if Renard draws on Tony's face in the bonus page.
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Sep 1, 2015 10:42
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idonotlikepeas posted:Tony definitely had contact with Surma, both emotional and physical. Young Annie looks like she's got Kat's face pasted on her.
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Sep 1, 2015 12:03
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Tony is far more sinister than Diego
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Sep 1, 2015 15:00
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Fried Chicken posted:Tony is far more sinister than Diego He literally cannot help it, though. The prosthetic technology isn't there.
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Sep 1, 2015 15:03
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karmicknight posted:He literally cannot help it, though. The prosthetic technology isn't there. ha this just reminded me, what are the odds kat's wierd biomech limb poo poo comes into play
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Sep 1, 2015 15:04
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Tony isn't loving looking at annie like YOU LITTLE poo poo YOU MONSTER YOU KILLED MY WIFE hes looking at her going "oh my god she will hate me forever because i killed her mother and I can never explain to her what happened because eithershe will hate me or it will break her little heart and shell be a broken human" So he shoves her out of his heart because he thinks thats the best thing to do because he is actually a broken person who needs help learning how to cope with dealing with emotions and also other people.
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Sep 1, 2015 15:07
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he's looking at her like ERROR ERROR INTERPERSONAL CONTACT WARNING, SHUTTING DOWN
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Sep 1, 2015 15:08
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Demiurge4 posted:Reynard is going to tell Tony he's a Bad Dad and now he's gonna do better. Jumps into Tony, kills Donny.
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Sep 1, 2015 15:14
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Fried Chicken posted:Tony is far more sinister than Diego This is wrong and you should feel bad.
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Sep 1, 2015 16:12
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UndyingShadow posted:Don't forget that he seems to, on some level, actively resent his daughter "taking" his wife's soul, a thing he can't seem to let go of. This is why I think tony is still a bad guy. It's complicated. TMI ZONE My grandmother died in childbirth with my father almost exactly nine months after my grandfather returned from WWII, which had separated him from his beloved wife not long after they were married. He was in the Army, endured heavy fighting in the jungle of Indonesia, spent years away at war, and the first thing that happened when he got home was his wife choked to death on her own vomit because she insisted on eating before going to the hospital and the hospital gave her anaesthesia despite being told not to. So here was my grandfather, a newly-minted widower just back from the bloodiest conflict in human history, with a squalling baby on his hands. He was alone, heartbroken, and shattered by his experiences during the war. And just when he thought he would finally enjoy some peace and happiness, he finds himself alone in his grief and saddled with a small creature that does nothing but take and demand from a man who has nothing left to give. He's already lost almost everything, and now the baby whose birth cost the life of his wife needs love, but he's so tired and so sad that there is nothing left. And how do we feel about people who demand things from us when we don't have them to give? We resent them. We can't help it. It's just how we're wired. This is the same psychological mechanism that drives people to rise up in rebellion against oppression, twisted around and perverted by misfortune and circumstance to focus on an innocent and helpless child. My grandfather was a hard man. "Emotionally unavailable" doesn't even begin to cover it. Worse, he physically abused my father frequently. He never spoke about my grandmother until his mind began to go as he died of Parkinsons in his 90s. My father had never even been to his mother's grave. He didn't even know where it was - my grandfather refused to tell him. My ex-wife, who is a superb researcher, tracked it down for him, and we finally brought him to that cold graveside just last year. My father's in his late 60s now, and that was the first time he'd ever been to his mother's grave. I think that had he not just come back from the war, or perhaps if he had had a less direct role in combat, my grandfather might have had the strength to internalize the fact that the last person he should take his anger and grief out on is his child. Save it for the doctors at the hospital, or himself for buying his wife the loving burger that killed her. But he didn't have that strength. He'd endured and lost too much. And neither does Tony, who was clearly an emotionally stunted person to begin with. I don't condone it; I'm not trying to say that Tony is right to be resentful. But I can understand it, having seen this very circumstance play out in my own family, and I can feel sympathy for the poor sad bastard. All I can say is bravo to Tea-San for portraying the situation as sensitively and, in my opinion, realistically, as possible.
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Sep 1, 2015 16:22
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ElMaligno posted:This is wrong and you should feel bad. You are wrong and you should field bad. Diego may not have been alright, but he was more right than Tony.
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Sep 1, 2015 17:20
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Tony hasn't murdered someone in cold blood I'm pretty sure that's worse than being out of your depth as a dad and husband
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Sep 1, 2015 17:26
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GlyphGryph posted:You are wrong and you should field bad. Diego may not have been alright, but he was more right than Tony. *feel Diego actually conspired to killa forest dezien, by his actions created a murder ghost our of the person he "loved" and his actions erased this bit of history from the court. Tony actions include being an asperger fucker who cannot deal with his emotions and almost killing his daughter in a misguided attempt to see his wife again. Tony, truly terrible.
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Sep 1, 2015 17:50
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Guys, it's a loving Latin joke, chill out.
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Sep 1, 2015 17:57
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Yeah, there's absolutely no contradiction between "Tony loves Annie" and "Tony resents Annie." Both statements are true.
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Sep 1, 2015 18:01
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