|
interdiction nullification had its day in the sun but it is clearly cancerous and needs to go if unrestricted travel is some sort of inalienable right for eve then make shuttles nullified
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 00:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 20:37 |
|
|
Potato Salad posted:This fucks the little guy though -- instead of a little fortress in space, they have a sponge. With interceptors, the most significant defense is great distance. CCP's dream and balancing goal is small alliances living in constellations next to each other and fighting for ~reasons~ in small gangs of fast kitey ships and living the pvp dream. It just doesnt and isnt gonna happen. It happens in Curse thats about it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 00:36
|
|
|
Glory of Arioch posted:interdiction nullification had its day in the sun but it is clearly cancerous and needs to go no you see interceptors need nullification because how else will the most agile and quick ships in the game evade gatecamps e: so that they may strike lethal blows at the beating heart of the enemy's carrier ratting operation
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 00:38
|
|
|
Potato Salad posted:This fucks the little guy though -- instead of a little fortress in space, they have a sponge. With interceptors, the most significant defense is great distance. A large empire. Quoting this from last page. CCP understands their game less than someone who doesn't play it and just reads about it on a humor website subforum.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 00:42
|
|
|
Inderdiction nullification: cancelling a cancellation mechanic, when rock paper scissors becomes a nine headed hydra.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 00:44
|
|
|
CashEnsign posted:Inderdiction nullification: cancelling a cancellation mechanic, when rock paper scissors becomes a nine headed hydra. Just make it so hics block all nullification 
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:02
|
|
|
Voyager I posted:You should probably be more specific about how quantum-linking would transfer the consciousness that no longer exists inside an inert dead brain into a new one, since it kinda sounds like you're just dropping the best vaguely relevant science term you have heard of by way of argument. Well, if they explicitly create copies, then they do that. I never claimed that was impossible, just that it won't happen if you just transfer consciousness from one (1) dying clone to another. It's what I call the twin syndrome: All those people start out as exactly the same person, but the link between them gets broken when the different bodies start living and acquiring experiences separately, thus turning from some weird Übermind connected by quantum linking into several different people. Quantum-linking is what happens in the precise moment a brain scanner starts transfering information from the dead brain to the clone brain. Remember, that transfer works by quantum entanglement and is instantaneously. From the view point of the universe, both the dead and clone body are one and the same as long as the scanner works. If you just scan, store the information and later make multiple copies, all of those copies are the same person until they start drifting away from each other by making different choices, experiencing different things and so on. Man, now I want to write a EVE-story in which a gently caress-up in a clone facility ends up with two medical clones being prepared for the same capsuleer. With the capsuleer getting podded and due to the gently caress-up, downloaded into both clones. Both clones are woken up and leave the clone facility. They get to their quarters with mild headaches due to the one person in both bodies absentmindedly taking slightly different routes with each body. When they meet up in their quarters, the shock of seeing himself makes the link collapse and the capsuleer turns into two different people.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:05
|
|
|
i could get down with the idea that nullification only works on anchored bubbles but a dictor or hictor bubble still stops them from warping
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:08
|
|
|
Why not just get rid of bubbles & nullification and drop the align time for the interceptor a bit?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:14
|
|
|
Unfunny Poster posted:Why not just get rid of bubbles you're dumb as h*ll
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:17
|
|
|
 , whats the reasoning behind hictors not being able to receive remote reps while they bubble? Would being able to rep hictors somehow break some aspect of the game that i'm not aware of? I really wanna like hictors, and I've got it trained, but I dont think I've ever used one outside of a brick tanked phobos lighting a cyno for hotdrops because theyre just so underwhelming in small gang stuff. Voyager I posted:You're whiffing on this one hard, Grumps. It's not about souls; it's about distinguishing between individuals. You and a copy of you aren't the same entity. The significance of this fact depends on the perspective from which you're viewing something like an EVE cloning. For an observer, it's easy enough to watch Mark lie down on one table and wake up on another and not worry about what happened in the middle. For the second Mark, it's not really a big deal. As far as he knows, he's Mark, everyone treats him like he's Mark, and unless Mark is prone to philosophical masochism that's all he really needs to know to carry on his life. For the first Mark, it's a huge concern, because he doesn't wake up on the other table. The first Mark dies, and the fact that a new Mark is created to take his place doesn't change the fact that he is deceased. That might be a valid concern if it werent for the fact that mark 1 dies in the process. There is nobody left to complain because the only person who might have cared, by definition, dies in the process. In literally every meaningful way, it is the same person waking up in mark 2. The fact that mark 2 knows that mark 1 had to die for mark 2 to exist doesnt change that mark 2 and mark 1 are functionally identical and for all practical purposes the same person. grumplestiltzkin fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Sep 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:19
|
|
|
Unfunny Poster posted:Why not just get rid of bubbles & nullification and drop the align time for the interceptor a bit? On I misread. Deadtear said what I should have./
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:19
|
|
|
Hexel posted:CCP's dream and balancing goal is small alliances living in constellations next to each other and fighting for ~reasons~ in small gangs of fast kitey ships and living the pvp dream. CCP need to stop sniffing glue and admit to themselves that they can't decide what the players want to do.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:21
|
|
|
Glory of Arioch posted:i could get down with the idea that nullification only works on anchored bubbles but a dictor or hictor bubble still stops them from warping I'd say the other way around makes more sense. Rewarding preparation or something I guess
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:23
|
|
|
FruitNYogurtParfait posted:you're dumb as h*ll CommonShore posted:so, to rollback basically all of the interceptor changes? I openly admit it's a poo poo suggestion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:25
|
|
|
grumplestiltzkin posted:That might be a valid concern if it werent for the fact that mark 1 dies in the process. There is nobody left to complain because the only person who might have cared, by definition, dies in the process. In literally every meaningful way, it is the same person waking up in mark 2. The fact that mark 2 knows that mark 1 had to die for mark 2 to exist doesnt change that mark 2 and mark 1 are functionally identical and for all practical purposes the same person. Okay, right, if nobody cares about Mark 1 dying, Mark 1 included, then cloning is basically just as good as immortality. Would you want to be Mark 1 in this scenario?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:26
|
|
|
silentsnack posted:CCP need to stop sniffing glue and admit to themselves that they can't decide what the players want to do. Its real simple, players want fights. Big ones, little ones, medium sized ones. 100v100, 250v250, 1000v1000 and 10v10. And there needs to be a reason to fight and invade which means a disparity in value in different places. They cant keep homogenizing all regions and expect conflict.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:32
|
|
|
Hexel posted:Its real simple, players want fights. Big ones, little ones, medium sized ones. 100v100, 250v250, 1000v1000 and 10v10. And there needs to be a reason to fight and invade which means a disparity in value in different places. They cant keep homogenizing all regions and expect conflict. Or put the best, most reliable moneymaker in the game for average players in highsec and expect nullsec to gain population.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:35
|
|
|
gwrtheyrn posted:I'd say the other way around makes more sense. Rewarding preparation or something I guess Nah, reward players being logged in and playing. Otherwise, you're rewarding the guys carrier ratting two systems deep in a pocket, who just have to anchor their large t2 bubbles two jumps away.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:37
|
|
|
Dr. Pangloss posted:Nah, reward players being logged in and playing. Otherwise, you're rewarding the guys carrier ratting two systems deep in a pocket, who just have to anchor their large t2 bubbles two jumps away. Yeah until a blue jumps in and blows every single one of the bubbles up because it's dumb as hell, and if those bubbles are to mean anything, you still need a character in system to see the person jump in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:42
|
|
|
gwrtheyrn posted:Yeah until a blue jumps in and blows every single one of the bubbles up because it's dumb as hell, and if those bubbles are to mean anything, you still need a character in system to see the person jump in. Hell why not go a step farther with combat recons, and remove them from local in addition to dscan.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:43
|
|
|
grumplestiltzkin posted:
i'd assume it's just one window for super/titan pilots to get away while being hic pointed by one lone hic that MAY not have their fleet ready at that very moment. that and i believe you already can't use regular ewar on supers, no? ( i do nothing relating to capitals, low class wormholes 4 lyfe. ) if that's the case, then you have one option for pointing a super but at a downside.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:56
|
|
|
Wulfling posted:Hell why not go a step farther with combat recons, and remove them from local in addition to dscan. I hope you meant force recons 
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 01:57
|
|
|
 should somehow make esoteria the best region in the game and deklein objectively terrible. Force us to march all the way around the galaxy and blow poo poo up
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 02:26
|
|
|
Voyager I posted:Okay, right, if nobody cares about Mark 1 dying, Mark 1 included, then cloning is basically just as good as immortality. I seem to remember something about the capsuleer making process not being 100% and that theres a pretty good chance that it just wont work and you'll be for realsies dead. That can eat my rear end, but if there was some sort of "we guarantee that after we vaporize you we will be able to clone you and repeat the process to grant immortality" then yeah I'd probably stick around until I got bored. Why the gently caress not? You basically just asked me "would you like to be immortal with absolutely no downsides?" The answer is obvious.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 02:32
|
|
|
Jon Von Anchovi posted:
Who wants to tear down the absurd amount of towers in deklein 
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 02:38
|
|
|
Nobody, I'd say leave that poo poo in space and force someone to grind all those pos if they want to tower stuff
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 02:44
|
|
|
Wulfling posted:Hell why not go a step farther with combat recons, and remove them from local in addition to dscan. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 02:45
|
|
|
Glory of Arioch posted:interdiction nullification had its day in the sun but it is clearly cancerous and needs to go No. Bubbles in general need to be poo poo upon more, not less.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 02:59
|
|
|
Libluini posted:Well, if they explicitly create copies, then they do that. I never claimed that was impossible, just that it won't happen if you just transfer consciousness from one (1) dying clone to another. It's what I call the twin syndrome: All those people start out as exactly the same person, but the link between them gets broken when the different bodies start living and acquiring experiences separately, thus turning from some weird Übermind connected by quantum linking into several different people. I'm not 100% sure if you're talking in general scifi terms, or specifically about Eve. If you're talking about Eve lore, the above is wrong. Scanning the brain is nearly instantaneous, but rebuilding the brain is not, and there is a period of indeterminate consciousness level. (Fair warning, the lore has been inconsistent in the past. Where there are contradictions, I'm working off of the most recently published thing, i.e. Eve Source. From what I'm told, the original lore was all written in Icelandic and wasn't always properly translated in the past.) Copypaste with a bit of cleanup/added info from the last time I wrote about this: When you get podded, you die, your brain gets scanned, and the scan gets sent via Eve's usual FTL-communications mechanics to your clone station. There is no sort of quantum entanglement thing (other than the FTL communication itself) between your brain and the clone brain; it's just a big file. Wherever your medical clone is, it's started as a generic human-like thing -- engineered to have a full set of organs and usual stuff, but no real brain. It has a tiny bit of a stem that does heartbeat and breathing, and a big chunk of gel where the bulk of the brain should be. (Said gel has to be set up with marker molecules, and matching markers injected into your brain tissue, as a sort of alignment aid; this is the explanation for why you can only have one medical clone at a time. While they're fiddling with markers, they also inject stem cells from you into the body, so that they can customize the clone to you.) On receipt of a brain scan, they feed the brain scan data to a "cortex constructor" which builds a scaffold in that gel, containing nerve and glial cells in the same shape as the brain. So, you've got the same dendrite paths as the original, but no energy/activity in it -- effectively still dead. Then, they send electrical impulses through it to custom-tune that brain to produce the exact same shapes and activation energy levels as the original. This is actually supposed to be a loving creepy experience for someone who just got podded: They're recreating your brain from basic functions upward, while it's in a living body. So you'll initially gain consciousness with no memories or skills (or ability to control your body), then feel your memories/ego slowly fade back into prominence as the activation process completes. It can take several hours for you to fully "arrive" at the receiving end of a clone transfer. (Clone soldiers, on the other hand, are even creepier. They do the destructive brain scan in a lab, which kills you. They then run your brain scan through a piece of warez'd software that early wormhole explorers stole from the Sleepers; it analyzes your brain scan and separates out your ego/consciousness from your physical experience processing, and converts the ego/consciousness into a bit of software that can be run. The physical brain of a clone soldier is a computer-designed custom brain that is basically a lizard cranked up to 11, with your problem solving abilities and self-awareness bits running as a program inside an implant in that brain.) The Sleepers themselves have gone full Eclipse Phase-esque infomorph... and we have no idea how they've done it. edit: Libluini posted:If you just scan, store the information and later make multiple copies, all of those copies are the same person until they start drifting away from each other by making different choices, experiencing different things and so on. True. Only legal conventions (enforced by Concord) disallow multiple copies. ullerrm fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Sep 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 03:00
|
|
|
Kiryen posted:No. Bubbles in general need to be poo poo upon more, not less. bubbles are fine, they let you meaningfully interdict people going in and out of nullsec
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 03:18
|
|
|
Glory of Arioch posted:also post a 60k active tank golem, even with XLASB I am only getting 6000 (though I am using some midslots for gadgetry) Hey so I've been up for 36 hours now and I was driving between California and Texas all day. Total derp. What I got after some fiddling was  Without command ship bonuses, the Defense figure is 4540 Mid-grade Crystal set is 3963 without boosts, 6730 with Low-grade Crystal is 3561 without boosts, 6045 with
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 03:58
|
|
|
grumplestiltzkin posted:I seem to remember something about the capsuleer making process not being 100% and that theres a pretty good chance that it just wont work and you'll be for realsies dead. That can eat my rear end, but if there was some sort of "we guarantee that after we vaporize you we will be able to clone you and repeat the process to grant immortality" then yeah I'd probably stick around until I got bored. Why the gently caress not? You basically just asked me "would you like to be immortal with absolutely no downsides?" The answer is obvious. You're still not quite getting it. Mark 1 doesn't get immortality. Neither does Mark 2 or any of the other Marks that come to follow. They each get a single life, starting from the moment they are created (presumably birth for Mark 1, clone activation for Marks 2+) and ending when they eventually die. An infinite series of Marks is not the same thing as one Mark living forever. When you volunteer to become a capsuleer, you are essentially committing suicide to guarantee that your identity goes on forever, not you individually. EDIT: I didn't phrase my question clearly regarding this: quote:That might be a valid concern if it werent for the fact that mark 1 dies in the process. There is nobody left to complain because the only person who might have cared, by definition, dies in the process. In literally every meaningful way, it is the same person waking up in mark 2. The fact that mark 2 knows that mark 1 had to die for mark 2 to exist doesnt change that mark 2 and mark 1 are functionally identical and for all practical purposes the same person. The point I was trying to raise is that even if nobody else in the universe cares, it presumably matters a lot to Mark 1, and the process doesn't get off the ground without people willing to commit literal suicide. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Sep 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 04:14
|
|
|
Glory of Arioch posted:bubbles are fine, they let you meaningfully interdict people going in and out of nullsec Which is fine, but there need to be more ways to beat bubbles, not less. To be fair though, it's not a problem of bubbles in a vacuum; it's a matter of the entire interaction of tackling and gates which needs to be looked at in a lot of respects. In the meantime though, we don't need bubble+instalocker = near-unbeatable gate camp. Kiryen fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Sep 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 04:21
|
|
|
Kiryen posted:In the meantime though, we don't need bubble+instalocker = near-unbeatable gate camp. do they not have covops cloaks, (covert) cynos, and wormholes where you live or something
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 04:26
|
|
|
Glory of Arioch posted:do they not have covops cloaks, (covert) cynos, and wormholes where you live or something all of those are excessively random or specialized do they not have instalockers where you live, to stop interceptors with? I hear instalockers work pretty well on anything that's NOT an interceptor too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
If people are actively defending their space, maybe don't try to walk in blind through the front door.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 04:42
|
|
|
Voyager I posted:If people are actively defending their space, maybe don't try to walk in blind through the front door. True. This doesn't mean "anchor 50 bubbles and go rat in your carrier" though. I would be ok with getting rid of nullification if they got rid of anchored bubbles and disallowed cloaks on Dictors/Hictors. Kiryen fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Sep 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 04:57
|
|
|
Kiryen posted:all of those are excessively random or specialized interceptors have the ability to align under two seconds which makes them literally impossible to catch
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 05:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 20:37 |
|
|
why is there a ridiculous philosophical debate itt go take that poo poo to dnd or the other argue forum jesus
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 05:18
|
|