Kansas: The Flaming Shitshow That Is the Brownback Economy

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Kansas: The Flaming Shitshow That Is the Brownback Economy

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Iron Crowned: May 6, 2003; by Hand Knit

Missing Donut posted:

Your federal tax refund will be intercepted to pay off your back Kansas debt.

They've threatened to since I left, but never actually done it

# ? Aug 27, 2015 21:18

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 02:52

DeathSandwich: Apr 24, 2008; I fucking hate puzzles.

http://ksn.com/2015/08/25/lawsuit-over-voting-records-could-move-forward/

So it's looking like the lady that is filling a lawsuit to see samples of the last gubernatorial voting records may actually have a shot in court this time. It probably helps her case that the Kansas Supreme Court isn't super happy with the legislature right now as the latter tried loving with the former's budget in the wake of a school funding court case.

The cynic in me is giving it even odds that there is proof in said records that Kobach stole the last governors race. If only for the fact that he is so loudly anti-voting fraud when talking about those pesky 'others' then closes rank so quickly when the magnifying glass is pointed in his direction.

# ? Aug 28, 2015 16:07

ShadowCatboy: Jan 22, 2006; by FactsAreUseless

Looks like Brownback is refusing to put his economic council's quarterly report online. Apparently they started restricting the reports because they were�the subject of careless scrutiny. Some have taken the short-term numbers in this report out of context and misconstrued them.�

Of course, you can still get the August 2015 report by request. Here are some carelessly scrutinized, out-of-context, and misconstrued numbers for you guys comparing Kansas to the Midwest region and to the US as a whole:

*Kansas population from 2013 to 2014, up 0.3 percent; Midwest region and U.S., both up 0.7 percent.
*Kansas gross state product from 2013 to 2014, up 3.2 percent; region, up 3.8 percent; U.S., up 3.9 percent.
*Kansas personal income, 2014 to first quarter 2015, up 1.4 percent; region, up 2.2 percent; U.S., up 2.7 percent.
*Kansas per capita personal income, 2013 to 2014, up 2.5 percent; region, up 2.1 percent; U.S., up 3 percent.
*Kansas building permits, 2014 to 2015, up 14 percent; region, up 9.7 percent; U.S., up 45.3 percent.
*Kansas nonfarm employment, 2014 to 2015, up 0.9 percent; region, up 1.4 percent; U.S., up 2.1 percent.
*Kansas private-sector employment, 2014 to 2015, up 1.1 percent; region, up 1.6 percent; U.S., up 2.4 percent.
*Kansas manufacturing employment, 2014 to 2015, down 0.9 percent; region, down 0.1 percent; U.S., up 1.3 percent.
*Kansas unemployment rate, 2014 to 2015, down 4 percent; region, down 8.5 percent; U.S., down 12.7 percent.
*Kansas private business establishment, 2013 to 2014, up 1.3 percent; region, up 1.6 percent; U.S., up 2.1 percent.

On at least two factors Kansas beats the Midwest region: per capita personal income and building permits. But for the rest it's total crap compared to the US as a whole. I might just pull out excel and graph this poo poo TBH.

# ? Aug 28, 2015 19:48

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Any stat where Kansas does better than the region should be considered a net postive for Kansas. The region more accurately reflects the context of Kansas than New York, California, Texas, or Florida do when lumped in as US rates.

# ? Aug 28, 2015 22:28

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007; Can't post for 4 hours!

Boon posted:

Any stat where Kansas does better than the region should be considered a net postive for Kansas. The region more accurately reflects the context of Kansas than New York, California, Texas, or Florida do when lumped in as US rates.

In only two stats did Kansas fare better than the region, and one of those (building permits) is of only dubious relevance to economic health.

In other words, the reports confirm that Kansas is a total shitshow.

# ? Aug 29, 2015 09:28

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

enraged_camel posted:

In only two stats did Kansas fare better than the region, and one of those (building permits) is of only dubious relevance to economic health.

In other words, the reports confirm that Kansas is a total shitshow.

Okay? I don't understand your point.

Boon fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Aug 29, 2015

# ? Aug 29, 2015 14:19

Slaan: Mar 16, 2009; ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH

enraged_camel posted:

In other words, the reports confirm that Kansas is a total shitshow.

This is the point. It's doing worse than the region in everything.

# ? Aug 29, 2015 15:26

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Slaan posted:

This is the point. It's doing worse than the region in everything.

Well, that's not true if you're reading it, but agreed, Kansas is doing very poorly - that's obvious.

What's not obvious is where you would include the stats that show Kansas outperforming the region when trying to make that point.

# ? Aug 29, 2015 15:33

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Boon posted:

Well, that's not true if you're reading it, but agreed, Kansas is doing very poorly - that's obvious.

What's not obvious is where you would include the stats that show Kansas outperforming the region when trying to make that point.

Barely outperforming, in categories that barely apply to the economy.

# ? Aug 29, 2015 15:37

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Okay? How does that matter? "Yeah, it's wrong, but it's barely wrong so haha whatever"

The idea that including and ignoring data that is counter to your argument makes your argument misleading unless you address those points specifically. That shouldn't be this difficult to grasp. I don' think anyone disagrees that Kansas is hosed, but I pointed out that the regional numbers are what's important barring further analysis since the US numbers obviously accounts for a whole bunch of things that Kansas is not, nor could ever be. In a list of numbers that are being used to effectively state how hosed Kansas is, some of them don't support that (in this case two) and should be addressed.

That number about per capita income growth is especially important regionally to people who wouldn't understand that per capita income growth is a bullshit number (but boy does it sound good).

Boon fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Aug 29, 2015

# ? Aug 29, 2015 15:48

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Boon posted:

Okay? How does that matter? "Yeah, it's wrong, but it's barely wrong so haha whatever"

The idea that including and ignoring data that is counter to your argument makes your argument misleading unless you address those points specifically. That shouldn't be this difficult to grasp. I don' think anyone disagrees that Kansas is hosed, but I pointed out that the regional numbers are what's important barring further analysis since the US numbers obviously accounts for a whole bunch of things that Kansas is not, nor could ever be. In a list of numbers that are being used to effectively state how hosed Kansas is, some of them don't support that (in this case two) and should be addressed.

That number about per capita income growth is especially important regionally to people who wouldn't understand that per capita income growth is a bullshit number (but boy does it sound good).

According to the regional numbers, Kansas performs like poo poo. What aren't you getting Mr. Tom Clancy IRL?

# ? Aug 29, 2015 16:26

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

You're probably the most obtuse and petty person on this board, its incredible.

I don't really know how to explain my position any more basically, especially since Ive already agreed with your basic point multiple times over

# ? Aug 29, 2015 16:36

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Boon posted:

You're probably the most obtuse and petty person on this board, its incredible.

I don't really know how to explain my position any more basically, especially since Ive already agreed with your basic point multiple times over

Your position is moronic, Kansas performs horribly. Being slightly better on 2 irrelevant metrics doesn't matter, just like how a guy who got caught killing 20 people but gave a homeless guy $50 on the way isn't less of a piece of poo poo.

# ? Aug 29, 2015 16:40

Grundulum: Feb 28, 2006

Boon posted:

That number about per capita income growth is especially important regionally to people who wouldn't understand that per capita income growth is a bullshit number (but boy does it sound good).

Why is it a bullshit number? I get why building growth doesn't necessarily correlate with a sound economy (hello, China!), but when per capita income goes up that's a good thing, right? Or is there an unreported Gini coefficient that means the distribution is even more skewed than in the region/country?

# ? Aug 29, 2015 16:50

The Bloop: Jul 5, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Grundulum posted:

Why is it a bullshit number? I get why building growth doesn't necessarily correlate with a sound economy (hello, China!), but when per capita income goes up that's a good thing, right? Or is there an unreported Gini coefficient that means the distribution is even more skewed than in the region/country?

Is not necessarily a bad number, but it tells you literally nothing about the life of the average Kansan. It could be incredibly misleading, and so it's a bad metric in and of itself.

# ? Aug 29, 2015 20:00

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Yeah, what Trent said. Stagnant income growth for 90% of the population, and incredible income growth for the remaining 10% will completely skew the meaning of that number but the metric doesn't account for that.

Nintendo Kid posted:

Your position is moronic, Kansas performs horribly. Being slightly better on 2 irrelevant metrics doesn't matter, just like how a guy who got caught killing 20 people but gave a homeless guy $50 on the way isn't less of a piece of poo poo.

They're not irrelevant... at least not the one anyway.

Someone who is willing to believe that the policies in Kansas are working being told that their income, on average, grew more than the income of the rest of the Midwest will be more inclined to think Brownback is doing the right thing. Why do you think things that are an obvious counter to the overall argument shouldn't be addressed when discussing those very things? Do you think these things don't happen? Have you ever watched a political campaign?

Boon fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Aug 29, 2015

# ? Aug 29, 2015 20:18

Poil: Mar 17, 2007

Kinda like if you were at a bar and Bill Gates walked in everyone in the bar would be, on average, a millionaire?

# ? Aug 29, 2015 21:16

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Boon posted:

They're not irrelevant... at least not the one anyway.

Someone who is willing to believe that the policies in Kansas are working being told that their income, on average, grew more than the income of the rest of the Midwest will be more inclined to think Brownback is doing the right thing. Why do you think things that are an obvious counter to the overall argument shouldn't be addressed when discussing those very things? Do you think these things don't happen? Have you ever watched a political campaign?

Yes someone who is desperate to believe a lie will grasp for any support for that lie. Your point? Or is this something else that's classified?

"Oh well sure my kid's school sucks now, I got put on part time work, and the roads are crumbling, but someone else in the state might have made a few extra bucks so I'm being helped!" - the people you're thinking we should bother to discuss facts with.

# ? Aug 29, 2015 21:26

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Made my point, others grasped it, I can't help that you're deficient. Wish I could, the forums would be a better place

Boon fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Aug 29, 2015

# ? Aug 29, 2015 21:36

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007; Can't post for 4 hours!

You posted this immediately after a long bunch of stats showing how much Kansas is sucking:

Boon posted:

Any stat where Kansas does better than the region should be considered a net postive for Kansas. The region more accurately reflects the context of Kansas than New York, California, Texas, or Florida do when lumped in as US rates.

So it came across as you suggesting (or implying) that Kansas isn't doing as bad as people here are saying.

In other words your post itself is fine, but contextually it is open to misinterpretation. i can't speak for Nintendo Kid but I don't know you as a poster so I had no reason to give you the benefit of the doubt.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 01:02

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

That's fair, I probably could have explained it better.

Boon fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Aug 31, 2015

# ? Aug 31, 2015 01:32

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Boon posted:

That's fair, I probably could have explained it better.

Fishmech is just a poo poo poster who thinks he's right, even when someone who knows far more about something tells him he's wrong.

Buddy you don't know poo poo one about the topic, or really much of anything it seems.

# ? Aug 31, 2015 01:44

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

# ? Aug 31, 2015 01:59

Grand Theft Autobot: Feb 28, 2008; I'm something of a fucking idiot myself

Which states are in Kansas' region?

edit: Congratulations, Kansas, you barely outperformed a state with approx. 15 people, and a literal desert wasteland, in building permit generation.

Grand Theft Autobot fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Sep 1, 2015

# ? Sep 1, 2015 02:01

my kinda ape: Sep 15, 2008; Everything's gonna be A-OK; Oven Wrangler

Grand Theft Autobot posted:

Which states are in Kansas' region?

edit: Congratulations, Kansas, you barely outperformed a state with approx. 15 people, and a literal desert wasteland, in building permit generation.

"the six-state region of Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Oklahoma, Colorado, Missouri and Arkansas"

Which one is a desert wasteland?

Although apparently they can't count to seven in Kansas.

my kinda ape fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Sep 1, 2015

# ? Sep 1, 2015 04:52

CannonFodder: Jan 26, 2001; Passion’s Wrench

ghetto wormhole posted:

"the six-state region of Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Oklahoma, Colorado, Missouri and Arkansas"

Which one is a desert wasteland?

Although apparently they can't count to seven in Kansas.

Eastern Colorado is barely above a desert, and it's getting worse.

# ? Sep 1, 2015 16:24

fknlo: Jul 6, 2009; Fun Shoe

Kansas still in the hole after raising sales/use taxes

quote:

Jordan said that although sales taxes were below expectations, sales and use taxes showed �nice, healthy increases.� Sales tax receipts showed 3.9 percent growth, he said. And income tax withholding in the month was up 6.7 percent.

�There�s just a lot of positive signs in this,� he said.

People along state lines are going to cross over to save money. I've already heard people at work bitching about the prices of cigarettes in Kansas.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 14:46

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

Just make it illegal to leave the state.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 14:50

Iron Crowned: May 6, 2003; by Hand Knit

Radish posted:

Just make it illegal to leave the state.

I'd be all down for erecting a wall between Kansas and everywhere else.

# ? Sep 2, 2015 14:51

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007; Can't post for 4 hours!

Iron Crowned posted:

I'd be all down for erecting a wall between Kansas and everywhere else.

I don't know about Kansas, but Wisconsin might do it!

# ? Sep 2, 2015 14:53

Iron Crowned: May 6, 2003; by Hand Knit

enraged_camel posted:

I don't know about Kansas, but Wisconsin might do it!

But will he make Canada pay for it? :allears:

# ? Sep 2, 2015 15:16

ShadowCatboy: Jan 22, 2006; by FactsAreUseless

IT'S HAPPENING!!! :siren:

quote:

What happens to a legal appeal when there's no court to hear it?

That's the tricky question before Kansas Republicans today as they grapple with the results of their own law, which threatens to shutter the state court system.

On Wednesday night, a district judge in Kansas struck down a 2014 law that stripped the state Supreme Court of some of its administrative powers. The ruling has set off a bizarre constitutional power struggle between the Republican-controlled legislature and the state Supreme Court. At stake is whether the Kansas court system will lose its funding and shut down.

Last year, the Kansas legislature passed a law that took away the top court's authority to appoint chief judges to the state's 31 judicial districts�a policy change Democrats believe was retribution for an ongoing dispute over school funding between the Supreme Court and the legislature. (Mother Jones reported on the standoff this spring.) When the legislature passed a two-year budget for the court system earlier this year, it inserted a clause stipulating that if a court ever struck down the 2014 administrative powers law, funding for the entire court system would be "null and void." Last night, that's what the judge did.

Kansas Attorney General Derek Schmidt warned that last night's decision �could effectively and immediately shut off all funding for the judicial branch.� That would lead to chaos. As Pedro Irigonegaray, an attorney for the Kansas judge who brought the legal challenge against the administrative law, put it, �Without funding, our state courts would close, criminal cases would not be prosecuted, civil matters would be put on hold, real estate could not be bought or sold, adoptions could not be completed."

Both parties in the case have agreed to ask that Wednesday's ruling remain on hold until it can be appealed to the state Supreme Court, so that there is a functioning court to hear the appeal. On Thursday, a judge granted the stay. Meanwhile, lawyers involved in the case and advocates for judicial independence are preparing a legal challenge to the clause of the judicial budget that withholds court funding. Sometime in the next few months, the state Supreme Court is likely to rule on whether the legislature has the right to strip the Supreme Court of its administrative authority, and whether it can make funding for the courts contingent on the outcome of a court case.

�We have never seen a law like this before," Randolph Sherman, a lawyer involved in fighting the administrative law, said in a statement, referring to the self-destruct mechanism in the judicial budget. "[I]t is imperative that we stop it before it throws the state into a constitutional crisis.�

# ? Sep 6, 2015 20:15

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Oh holy poo poo, this is just going to blow up in Brownback's face

# ? Sep 6, 2015 20:36

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007; Can't post for 4 hours!

ShadowCatboy posted:

IT'S HAPPENING!!!

Popcorn.jpg

Seriously, this is loving awesome. Hopefully the entire state implodes before the presidential election so democratic candidates have more ammo against GOP insanity.

# ? Sep 6, 2015 21:13

az: Dec 2, 2005

It's a mystery to me how it's even legal for a Governor to threaten, in effect, shutting down the entire judiciary in their state if they do something he doesn't want to. That's some heinous poo poo.

# ? Sep 6, 2015 21:16

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

az posted:

It's a mystery to me how it's even legal for a Governor to threaten, in effect, shutting down the entire judiciary in their state if they do something he doesn't want to. That's some heinous poo poo.

Well it isn't really legal.

# ? Sep 6, 2015 21:17