|
bewbies posted:Most histories argue he was more ...riled than worn out. Given many games of RTS repeats of Pickett's Charge I'm of the opinion he was both. 
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 02:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 07:25 |
|
|
Ensign Expendable posted:Speaking of Longstreet, a guy I know recently changed the Wikipedia article for the M103 tank to "M103 Longstreet" without any citations. It stayed up for long enough that he figured the joke has run its course and removed the name, at which point some grognard watching the article immediately put it back. It is there to this day. Moral of the story is that Wikipedia is completely worthless. When I was an awful person in high school I tried to write an alt-history story about a Nazi invasion of the US, and I named a fictional tank destroyer the M28 Longstreet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 02:39
|
|
|
Longstreet is the only Confederate general I feel halfway comfortable admiring.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 03:52
|
|
|
I've always thought John Mosby was a relatively ok dude. Not a general though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 04:20
|
|
|
ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:When I was an awful person in high school I tried to write an alt-history story about a Nazi invasion of the US, and I named a fictional tank destroyer the M28 Longstreet.  Jamwad Hilder posted:I've always thought John Mosby was a relatively ok dude. Not a general though. Hey, I grew up on a highway named after that dude.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 04:54
|
|
|
bewbies posted:Most histories argue he was more ...riled than worn out. You can see why this might've been the case: his cavalry was nowhere to be seen, Ewell was timid, Hill was sick, neither were inspiring a lot of confidence, his opponent was very close to breaking on several occasions but never did, Washington was right drat there, and so on. Lee was really, really aggressive and willing to gamble. In more ways than one; I think he was the general who was glad to be facing McClellan, because he knew from prewar poker games that McClellan would always back down if you bluffed hard. Apparently Lee also had a sharp temper, but after the war his generals, who started the whole "Lost Cause" movement, deliberately wrote that part out. It didn't fit with their picture of a perfect gentleman. There's a little known story from the summer of 1864, when Grant was grinding him back to Richmond. The Union army got tangled crossing a river, and was vulnerable. But Lee was sick, so sick he couldn't stand, let alone conduct a major battle, and he had no subordinates he could trust to carry out an army sized attack (Jackson was dead and Longstreet had been shot in the throat). So Lee lay on his cot, raging, knowing what might be his last chance to hurt a Union army was slipping away.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 05:12
|
|
|
Jamwad Hilder posted:I've always thought John Mosby was a relatively ok dude. Not a general though. mosby was cool for a cav BurningStone posted:Lee was really, really aggressive and willing to gamble. In more ways than one; I think he was the general who was glad to be facing McClellan, because he knew from prewar poker games that McClellan would always back down if you bluffed hard. edit: As Wallenstein demonstrates, it may be possible to conduct entire campaigns on spite alone if your body gives out edit 2: if my dudes' commanders are so sick they can't stand, they prop themselves up in a litter and do their thing anyway. This isn't the greatest option--I think the only Spanish who knew wtf he was doing at Rocroi was shot early in the battle because a guy on a litter is a pretty great target. edit 3: There may be a reason that even the 30yw officers who don't get killed in battle tend to die relatively early. Also the drinking. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Sep 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 05:46
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:Longstreet is the only Confederate general I feel halfway comfortable admiring. Is there anything that gives the week or so proceeding Gettysburg through Lee's retreat a "Guns of August" treatment? There's just so much "X would have happened, but Y circumstances set in motion days earlier made Z happen instead" stuff to it. poo poo like Meade being so far down the list that he thought he was getting arrested when they showed up to promote him to command, Meade replacing Reynolds with Hancock rather than the higher-ranking Howard and giving Hunt the authority and freedom to do poo poo with his artillery like tapering off his counterbattery fire under the pre-assault shelling so that the confederates thought his guns were knocked out when Pickett charged - they weren't knocked out and he opened up on them with canister from above. Or Stuart loving around with supply raids to the extent that he was slowed down by his precious stolen wagons and showed up late after Lee had hosed up and thought Hancock's (non-Sickles) lines were father West than they actually were, thanks to Jeb not being there to scout them, making the expected flanking move by Longstreet considerably less flanky. Sickles being a massive gloryhound and getting his command pretty much destroyed (along with his leg) in Longstreet's attack meant the US presence on the lines there was a bunch of stone cold badasses AKA Third Brigade, First Division, V Corps. They were only there because the Army's Chief Engineer noticed it was a pretty important place to defend but since loving Sickles had gone and gotten his Corps mulched he needed someone there ricky-tick. Cue one Strong Vincent (actual name) going all Gandalf to the confederate Baelrog and a bunch of yahoos from Maine thundering downhill with loving bayonets to capture a bunch of Alabamians and Texans who ostensibly had zero clues what the gently caress. Gettysburg was where a lot of people did a lot of uncharacteristic poo poo that turned out to be absolutely critical.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 06:47
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:can any of this thread's many Nordics tell me if anyone around Gustavus Adolphus told him that maybe the whole leading from the front thing was a tad unsafe for a head of state I seem to recall him spending more time in the rear after getting shot (by a Polish dude?), but this isn't something I've dealt with for many years, sorry.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 07:24
|
|
|
Tias posted:I seem to recall him spending more time in the rear after getting shot (by a Polish dude?), but this isn't something I've dealt with for many years, sorry. oops Edit: Commanders would have gone into battle with a Leib-Guardie, or personal escort, and according to a miniatures company (lol) the mounted half of Wallenstein's looked like this: "Originally the mounted arm of the Lifeguard consisted of two Harquebusier companies, but by 1627 when Ottavio Piccolomini (who became a famed cavalry commander in his own right) was installed as Commander of the Lifeguard it had expanded to one company of armoured lancers, one of Harquebusiers, one of Dragoons and one company of Croats. Shortly after a second company of harquebusiers were add. The armoured lancers were certainly the most unique, impressive and expensive of these troops. Contemporary accounts described them as of ‘magnificent appearance’. Equipped with full armour they were clothed in the finest material. Cloaks of blue and red, lined with gold trim were the standard uniform of the ordinary trooper; officers and trumpeters were bedecked with extra trim, buttons, silks and laces." If you see that coming at you on the field, that's what you aim for. I think it was xthetenth who called 30yw soldiers "irresponsibly rad" in another thread. This is an entire civilization that's like something airbrushed on the side of a van and I love it. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Sep 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 10:09
|
|
|
I know now thanks to this thread  that even smallarms had prepared charges at least as long ago as the 30YW. What I care to know now is were there similar things for cavalry shotties in the ACW? Propellant, projectile, wadding (maybe the cartridge paper itself?)? Cuz it seems that pouring double aught or the era equivalent/ramming the slightly more complicated buck and ball down your muzzle loader (were breech loading shotguns even in use/favor at this juncture?) anywhere even close to a shooting fight was a real butthole puckering effort. I know swivel guns could fire off quick on account of breechloading and prepared charges but I wanna know about this on account of, I think, Blood Meridian (11 years early, I know, stfu). I think my main question is breechloading shotties but who knows cuz i sure don't.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 11:04
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:(lol) Uuuuugh it's borderline criminal how fire and fury have the most comprehensive one-stop shop for 1980s tables of org and equipment. A tabletop miniatures site 
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 11:09
|
|
|
Koesj posted:Uuuuugh it's borderline criminal how fire and fury have the most comprehensive one-stop shop for 1980s tables of org and equipment. A tabletop miniatures site this nerdy poo poo is being contaminated by that nerdy poo poo
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 11:11
|
|
|
21st c historiography: *shitload of quotes from some forums* vis-à-vis *meticulous research this one dude did for his sperg tabletop*, furthermore *cites german wikipedia* e: and nothing was ever archived
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 11:15
|
|
|
Rabhadh posted:The Normans invaded Ireland with Papal authority under the pretence of reforming the Celtic Church Cite, from someone other than the guy I mentioned, that that papal authority was granted before the invasion? (Cite, too, that it was anything to do with the pre-invasion English church)
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 11:16
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:Edit: Commanders would have gone into battle with a Leib-Guardie, or personal escort, and according to a miniatures company (lol) the mounted half of Wallenstein's looked like this: Semi-related - I'm sure you've talked about this before but I'm having trouble remembering - how was Wallenstein viewed by his troops? I know the men loved Tilly, but what did they think of Wallenstein and his assorted weirdness? Loved him for making sure they're all fed, clothed, and armed? Think he's kinda weird, possibly insane, probably a sorcerer? Terrified by the Witch-King of the Logistics Dimension? Just another boss, only he doesn't seem to gently caress up as much as the other bosses?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 12:04
|
|
|
Tomn posted:Semi-related - I'm sure you've talked about this before but I'm having trouble remembering - how was Wallenstein viewed by his troops? I know the men loved Tilly, but what did they think of Wallenstein and his assorted weirdness? Loved him for making sure they're all fed, clothed, and armed? Think he's kinda weird, possibly insane, probably a sorcerer? Terrified by the Witch-King of the Logistics Dimension? Just another boss, only he doesn't seem to gently caress up as much as the other bosses? Remember, his nickname among the men was Der Henkerherzog, "the hanging duke." Which owns as a nickname, but still. Now, if you're an aspiring colonel, the knowledge that he and you will split the initial investment in your regiment was quite attractive indeed. Edit: Like the "King of Spades" nickname for Lee, the common soldiers may also have resented his insistence on entrenching while they were doing the digging, but probably appreciated it once they were getting shot at. Edit 2: I mean, the man bathes regularly. What the hell is a common infantryman supposed to think about that? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Sep 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 12:14
|
|
|
Koesj posted:Uuuuugh it's borderline criminal how fire and fury have the most comprehensive one-stop shop for 1980s tables of org and equipment. A tabletop miniatures site You mean you don't want your little lead men to be 100% accurate to contemporary standards of dress and equipment? Scrub.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 13:20
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:If you see that coming at you on the field, that's what you aim for. I think it was xthetenth who called 30yw soldiers "irresponsibly rad" in another thread. This is an entire civilization that's like something airbrushed on the side of a van and I love it. Yeah, I think it was me. I maintain that it'd be a great RPG setting especially if you rolled with all the wild superstition stuff.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 14:04
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:Is there anything that gives the week or so proceeding Gettysburg through Lee's retreat a "Guns of August" treatment? There's just so much "X would have happened, but Y circumstances set in motion days earlier made Z happen instead" stuff to it. poo poo like Meade being so far down the list that he thought he was getting arrested when they showed up to promote him to command, Meade replacing Reynolds with Hancock rather than the higher-ranking Howard and giving Hunt the authority and freedom to do poo poo with his artillery like tapering off his counterbattery fire under the pre-assault shelling so that the confederates thought his guns were knocked out when Pickett charged - they weren't knocked out and he opened up on them with canister from above. I love this post.  BurningStone posted:Lee was really, really aggressive and willing to gamble. In more ways than one; I think he was the general who was glad to be facing McClellan, because he knew from prewar poker games that McClellan would always back down if you bluffed hard. This is almost on par with Hannibal being recalled back to Carthage levels of human interest. I hope Extra History eventually covers Lee and Grant. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Sep 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 14:25
|
|
|
FAUXTON posted:Is there anything that gives the week or so proceeding Gettysburg through Lee's retreat a "Guns of August" treatment? This is a pretty good example, it starts basically just after Chancellorsville and goes all the way through the retreat. It is a really good study although it is a bit too much "this unit went here while this one went here" for my tastes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 14:34
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:Yeah, I think it was me. I maintain that it'd be a great RPG setting especially if you rolled with all the wild superstition stuff. There used to be an RPG here in Poland about the less-civilized parts of the P-L Commonwealth. It was written by a huge sperg (who is also an accomplished fiction writer) and was pretty bad, if mostly due to his insistence on a boring, overly-detailed combat system (with a separate set of moves for rapiers et co and another for sabres). The best thing about it was that it included such magnificent character backgrounds (think WFRP starting jobs) as "The Wise Drunk Guy", "The Guy Who Drives the Serfs to the Fields in the Morning", "Guy Who Shows Up to the Sejmiks to Yell for Money" and (for Western European characters) "The Pants-Wearer".
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 14:55
|
|
|
Tevery Best posted:There used to be an RPG here in Poland about the less-civilized parts of the P-L Commonwealth. It was written by a huge sperg (who is also an accomplished fiction writer) and was pretty bad, if mostly due to his insistence on a boring, overly-detailed combat system (with a separate set of moves for rapiers et co and another for sabres). The best thing about it was that it included such magnificent character backgrounds (think WFRP starting jobs) as "The Wise Drunk Guy", "The Guy Who Drives the Serfs to the Fields in the Morning", "Guy Who Shows Up to the Sejmiks to Yell for Money" and (for Western European characters) "The Pants-Wearer". The Polish equivalent of that RPG written by Varg Vikernes then?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 14:57
|
|
|
Dzikie Pola? Period is better suited for a LARP than a P&P RPG. Like what HEY GAL is doing now with reenactment, but more about staying in character by getting blind drunk in full costume and shooting guns out of windows. OTOH Wallenstein would be totally down for a game with all the dice and math. Like Shadowrun.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 15:06
|
|
|
bewbies posted:This is a pretty good example, it starts basically just after Chancellorsville and goes all the way through the retreat. It is a really good study although it is a bit too much "this unit went here while this one went here" for my tastes. This one is an excellent narrative history that covers a lot of 'this is why this guy acts in this ridiculous-in-hindsight way'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 15:07
|
|
|
I get that it was supposed to be a bad game, but it looks very interesting. Would it be reasonably possible to play if you don't know any Polish?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 15:32
|
|
|
100 Years Ago Nothing new on the Western Front today; so that makes it time to go see exactly why everyone's getting so worked up about what might happen if Bulgaria were to join the war. Louis Barthas arrives at his actual rest billets, and we'll let one of his comrades describe their latest accomodation. quote:The Reverend Father Galaup, a bit less resigned than Job on his dung heap, cried out with his hands joined in prayer, “Lying on the hard ground in a sheepfold is nothing. Jesus was born in a stable. But it’s this foul odor that makes me sick, and this coating of pig-poo poo slurry spreading all over the floor, turning our straw bed into a stinking manure pile.” This is just dripping with...religious symbolism that I'm sure is going miles over my head, right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 15:53
|
|
|
Frostwerks posted:I know now thanks to this thread Depends on when you're talking about. Cav got breech loading cartridge arms way early compared to the rest of the soldiers. Als they didn't make super regular use of shot guns. Maybe a few guys carried their own, especially in the south, but it wasn't a major issue thing. When not on raids or recon most cav fought dismounted - funk similar to how modern air cav works. Ride fast to get to a really loving inconvienent place on the field for the enemy and work as light infantry. When mounted and going after other cav pistols were th name of the game and they would carry multiples. Reloading on horseback in a fight is nigh impossible so you just carry four pistols.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 16:06
|
|
|
Klaus88 posted:The Polish equivalent of that RPG written by Varg Vikernes then? I wonder if Varg Vikernes actually did well with that. He's such a creepy manboy nazi sperg that I never really gave it a chance. \/\/\/\/ E: Yeah, omitted that 'cause I thought it was well-known. He's an all-around piece of poo poo \/\/\/\/ Tias fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Sep 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 16:25
|
|
|
literal murderer, to boot this is the wrong thread though
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 16:28
|
|
|
Koesj posted:21st c historiography: *shitload of quotes from some forums* vis-à-vis *meticulous research this one dude did for his sperg tabletop*, furthermore *cites german wikipedia* Anyways, wargaming causes milsperg because all the "founding fathers" of the hobby were ex military or active military trying to plan stuff with toy mans instead of real mans.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 17:08
|
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:Everything we write here will someday be a primary source for someone. Don't be so sure. Internet archiving is in loving dire straits, and that's when stuff isn't consciously altered by people who have the ability to do so. A person I went to grad school with was big into researching the colonial natives who fought for the colonial powers during the various wars of decolonization. She made major use of various online forums set up by those people and their families to keep in touch, organize their communities (they're frequently reviled by the people from the old country who emigrated after the war for non-related reasons) etc. One of the biggest problems she had was community leaders altering other people's posts or deleting them altogether if it didn't fit in with the memory and social consciousness that they were trying to shape. We'll figure out a better way in the future, but as it stands it can be really hard to work with. gently caress, just look at the archives of these very forums. There are huge swaths that are just lost to time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 17:33
|
|
|
Postwar history in general will be defined by at first poo poo paper, and electronic files forever lost in time after that. Future orgs will be part-run by 'historians' who can delve into every line of code ever written, like in Vinge's Deepness in the Sky.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 17:45
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Don't be so sure. Internet archiving is in loving dire straits, and that's when stuff isn't consciously altered by people who have the ability to do so.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 17:53
|
|
|
Clearly our solution here is to make some sort of history absorbing robot.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 17:56
|
|
|
Tevery Best posted:"Guy Who Shows Up to the Sejmiks to Yell for Money" SeanBeansShako posted:some sort of history absorbing robot xthetenth posted:Yeah, I think it was me. I maintain that it'd be a great RPG setting especially if you rolled with all the wild superstition stuff. Cyrano4747 posted:Reloading on horseback in a fight is nigh impossible Rockopolis posted:OTOH Wallenstein would be totally down for a game with all the dice and math. Like Shadowrun. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Sep 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 17:59
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Depends on when you're talking about. Cav got breech loading cartridge arms way early compared to the rest of the soldiers. Als they didn't make super regular use of shot guns. Maybe a few guys carried their own, especially in the south, but it wasn't a major issue thing. When not on raids or recon most cav fought dismounted - funk similar to how modern air cav works. Ride fast to get to a really loving inconvienent place on the field for the enemy and work as light infantry. To add onto this, shotguns have never been a regular weapon in militaries and only in the 20th and 21st century have armies even standardized models. Smoothbore muskets could always be loaded with buckshot in a pinch to turn them into shotguns and the Americans in particular made relatively heavy use of buck and ball loads, but the greater chance of a hit (and at long ranges, hitting multiple enemies) was offset by the decreased damage at long range. Actual purpose-built shotguns in warfare has mostly been a matter of militia bringing their hunting and home defense guns onto the battlefield. Also, from what I can find, breech-loading shotguns didn't become a mass produced thing anyways until the 1870s; pinfire shotguns date back to the 1830s, but I'm talking mass production instead of something that had a few dozen or few hundred made. Combat shotguns only started becoming a thing with stuff like World War I's trench fighting and World War II's urban and jungle combat; the first "trench guns" were essentially an expedient method of getting a weapon superior to long bolt-action rifles or modified handguns for close quarters combat, based on civilian and limited military usage of shotguns in light combat beforehand. Even today, shotguns are specialized weapons that compete with compact carbines and submachine guns for favor in CQB.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:14
|
|
|
BurningStone posted:Lee was really, really aggressive and willing to gamble. In more ways than one; I think he was the general who was glad to be facing McClellan, because he knew from prewar poker games that McClellan would always back down if you bluffed hard. Grant claimed that no attack he was ever involved in ever went as smoothly as those prepared by the engineers at that time. Scouting positions, preparing lines of defense or embarkation, preparing and designating roads for travel and etc... meaning Lee and McClellan (also PGT Beauregard and others who would have fame later in the ACW) working together. Also, Hancock was severely wounded at Gettysburg. Famously a ball passed through his saddle and dislodged a nail that was then was embedded in his leg. On pulling out the nail he extorted his troops to further efforts by saying that the enemy must be about out of ammunition if they were loading their weapons with nails. StashAugustine posted:Longstreet is the only Confederate general I feel halfway comfortable admiring. Longstreet and Grant were also very good friends. I think I recall that Longstreet had been best man at Grants wedding.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:30
|
|
|
Murgos posted:During the Mexican American war as the US Army was closing in on Mexico City Lee and McClellan were both in the Corps of Engineers. Lee was captain and McClellan was a senior Lt. They worked together constantly during that period and knew each other very well. quote:Longstreet and Grant were also very good friends. I think I recall that Longstreet had been best man at Grants wedding. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 07:25 |
|
|
Tias posted:I wonder if Varg Vikernes actually did well with that. He's such a creepy manboy nazi sperg that I never really gave it a chance.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:50
|
|