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Pissflaps posted:What about it? That doesn't make it acceptable though. Ticket prices are the same for us responsible festival goers who take care of our litter as for the ignorant who don't. The worst patrons could cost more than whatever share of their ticket price goes to the cleaning. The litter will cause harm in the time before the clean up crews can sort it, and they'll never be completely effective. Especially as wind takes the crap off site to the surrounding countryside. The same attitude is equally applicable everywhere else really. You could say the cost of cleaning stations is factored into the rail fare so litter there rather than finding a bin, council tax pays for street sweeping so litter the street, and so on.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:32
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dispatch_async posted:Are we? I thought we were talking about how it was acceptable to blame travellers as a group for racism against them because they 'bring it on themselves'. Well lots of people piled on Prince John for saying a thing stupidly (i.e. lumping all travellers in with the 'bad apples') but after that there was an awful lot of apologism for very anti-social behaviour with some pretty paper thin justifications. Cerv posted:That doesn't make it acceptable though. Ticket prices are the same for us responsible festival goers who take care of our litter as for the ignorant who don't. The worst patrons could cost more than whatever share of their ticket price goes to the cleaning. Your logic is mostly good here but travellers who aren't using licensed sites aren't contributing to the council tax unlike the litterers in every other example you cited. Also I don't really think you can assume the same social contract to weekend festivals as the country at large. That being said, littering is wrong. Always. Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 15:36
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Cerv posted:That doesn't make it acceptable though. Ticket prices are the same for us responsible festival goers who take care of our litter as for the ignorant who don't. The worst patrons could cost more than whatever share of their ticket price goes to the cleaning. You could say that, but dropping litter on the street is a crime whereas I'm not sure that is the case for private land on which a commercial festival is being held. I've never attended Glastonbury but I have a hunch that 'take your litter with you' is not something that customers are asked to do. Being able to leave your crap is part of the service you've forked out hundreds of pounds for. If Glastonbury's cleanup crews aren't effective then the organisers should be fined.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:40
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Cerv posted:The same attitude is equally applicable everywhere else really. You could say the cost of cleaning stations is factored into the rail fare so
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Sep 3, 2015 15:40
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Well lots of people piled on Prince John for saying a thing stupidly (i.e. lumping all travellers in with the 'bad apples') but after that there was an awful lot of apologism for very anti-social behaviour with some pretty paper thin justifications. You've just said that people can move anywhere in the country without actually suggesting a place that they can go, or indeed addressing that people might not want to leave an area for various reasons. But you can drive across the UK fairly quickly which somehow makes it ok in a sort of Voyage of the Damned kind of way
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Sep 3, 2015 15:42
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MrL_JaKiri posted:You've just said that people can move anywhere in the country without actually suggesting a place that they can go Aren't there hundreds of legal caravan sites up and down the country?
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Sep 3, 2015 15:43
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Lord of the Llamas posted:We're talking about travellers who squat in car parks and the like leaving a mess, not ones using authorised sites. So you're saying there are good travellers and bad travellers? Travellers deserving of our sympathy and travellers who aren't? Goodness, I wonder where that line of thinking will lead. Regardless, the travellers I was talking about didn't live on an authorised site.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:44
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Pissflaps posted:I've never attended Glastonbury but I have a hunch that 'take your litter with you' is not something that customers are asked to do. quote:We want all Festival goers to think ‘zero waste’ and to take home what they bring onto the Festival site. It is
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Sep 3, 2015 15:44
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I travel every day by train
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Sep 3, 2015 15:45
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Pissflaps posted:Aren't there hundreds of legal caravan sites up and down the country? Many of which only take people from the Caravan Club (my exgirlfriend's father owned a caravan site), let alone taking on groups of travellers
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Sep 3, 2015 15:46
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So we are agreed that as festivalgoers shouldn't litter their fields so too Travellers shouldn't foul up their camping sites.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:47
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MrL_JaKiri posted:It is ...which makes no mention of the litter from the food and drink sold on-site.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:47
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Many of which only take people from the Caravan Club (my exgirlfriend's father owned a caravan site), let alone taking on groups of travellers I don't mean those as owned privately by your rich extended family I mean local authority ones as detailed here: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jun/29/gypsy-sites-england-local-authority
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Sep 3, 2015 15:48
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kapparomeo posted:So we are agreed that Travellers shouldn't foul up their camping sites just as festivalgoers shouldn't litter their fields. I do a little lol every time a middle class homeowner walking his dog steps in a soiled nappy
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Sep 3, 2015 15:49
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People who don't clean up after their dogs need shooting.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:50
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I feel like this got overlooked https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBDoaCu6INo It has Jeremy Corbyn as a communist threesome baby and shows the British public as Wizards. Despite that it's probably the most accurate coverage he's going to receive.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:51
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quote:Cameron rejected claims that he did not care about the refugees. When this was put to him, he replied: I thought the Royal Navy was being sent to gun down empty smuggling boats or something equally retarded?
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Sep 3, 2015 15:52
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MrL_JaKiri posted:You've just said that people can move anywhere in the country without actually suggesting a place that they can go, or indeed addressing that people might not want to leave an area for various reasons. But you can drive across the UK fairly quickly which somehow makes it ok in a sort of Voyage of the Damned kind of way Isn't travelling around the country kind of their thing? Any group that's just rocked up and is squatting in an unauthorised site presumably wasn't already in that area in the first place. All I'm saying is that I can't see a convincing reason why any group would "have" to squat in a business park and trash the place. Pork Pie Hat posted:So you're saying there are good travellers and bad travellers? Travellers deserving of our sympathy and travellers who aren't? Goodness, I wonder where that line of thinking will lead. Don't be so obtuse, all I'm saying is that there's no excuse for littering and I'm sure the individuals concerned had other options if they could be bothered to put the effort in. Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 15:53
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Pissflaps posted:People who don't clean up after their dogs need shooting. The poo bag hanging ritual really pisses me off. It's like they're expecting some mythical poo fairy to come along after them and collect their little parcels, danging from fences/trees/insert nearby object. Junior G-man posted:I thought the Royal Navy was being sent to gun down empty smuggling boats or something equally retarded? No, there was a large ship out there handing out lifejackets and ferrying people to shore in Europe - possibly Italy. HMS Bulwark? My memory is bad.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:54
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Ludicro posted:Julie Bindel – “Syrian children drowning while trying to escape the Middle East is tragic, but butch lesbians are the real victims.” 
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Sep 3, 2015 15:54
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Guavanaut posted:Bring back common land. This. The Law Relating To Gypsies And Travellers posted:‘For centuries the commons of England provided lawful stopping places for people whose way of life was or had become nomadic. Enough common land survived the centuries of enclosure to make this way of life sustainable, but by section 23 of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 local authorities were given power to close the commons to Travellers. This they proceeded to do with great energy, but made no use of the concomitant power given to them by section 24 of the same Act to open caravan sites to compensate for the closure of the common.' OvineYeast posted:maybe travellers who are forced to squat and are swiftly moved on don't feel particularly impelled to keep the place spick and span, since they're going to be evicted in a few weeks whatever they do This too. Anecdote: I've been told by (non-Roma) Travellers that the problems with camps being left strewn with rubbish became serious after the removal of the right to camp on common land in the early 60s. The lack of any serious creation of new camp sites to offset the removal of long used common land sites meant that there was increasing pressure on what sites could be found/squatted. As they no longer had any right or freedom to use the land, and might not even get to return to the same site, many travellers felt they were also no longer responsible for looking after it. Without any personal investment in the welfare of the land why should they expend energy looking after it for people who would rather they didn't exist? At the most extreme end this attitude led some to refuse to poo poo outside* resulting in bags of poo getting lobbed out the window. This has now gone on so long that it's accepted as 'how things are done'. Treat people as unwanted shits and unsurprisingly they start to act on the expectation. *Not messy - you do it in a hole and bury it deep enough to deter the dogs. Simple. See also How To poo poo In The Woods
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Sep 3, 2015 15:56
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Isn't travelling around the country kind of their thing? No, the majority of them live either in permanent housing or in long term leases on council owned sites (and pay council tax and whatnot), which is why things like Dale Farm is such a big deal - a thousand people were forced to move on, where to? Nobody cared. MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 15:57
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Junior G-man posted:I thought the Royal Navy was being sent to gun down empty smuggling boats or something equally retarded? It's disputed. They sent one big boat to rescue migrants but they replaced the one they were using with a much smaller and less effective one. At the time "Defence sources said at the time that HMS Bulwark’s replacement would not be part of the EU’s Operation Triton search and rescue operation but would instead carry out a surveillance role under a separate EU naval mission to “identify, capture and dispose” of boats being used or suspected of being used by the smugglers" although this has officially been denied.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:57
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Spangly A posted:Give me more credit than that and address the points man, come on. The Jewish example is even helpful as another community who retain their own identity, which in turn makes them extremely vulnerable to scapegoating. The Romani and Jewish communities are in the worst game ever of "who's undergone the most genocides".  The history of physical and cultural genocide of both communities has led to the diaspora fracturing massively (doubly so for the Romani) and there are a lot of people who are in a diaspora from the diaspora.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:01
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Sep 3, 2015 16:24
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Jeremy Corbyn will destroy the UK. In the best case scenario
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Sep 3, 2015 16:28
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Many of which only take people from the Caravan Club (my exgirlfriend's father owned a caravan site), let alone taking on groups of travellers It's a LOT easier to make a caravan park if you restrict it to club membership and have less than 6 vans. No site licence, no formal planning permission required- it's why membership of a club is pretty much mandatory for leisure caravans. Source: going on a lot of caravan club holidays as a kid, and vague memories of looking up the laws about keeping a caravan in the woodland I manage.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:31
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El Scotch posted:Jeremy Corbyn will destroy the UK. We can only hope.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:33
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cant wait for this to be on huge screens in all our cities
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Sep 3, 2015 16:37
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Sep 3, 2015 16:38
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Avatar dimensions have been noted
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Sep 3, 2015 16:50
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labours election adverts should just be Who do you trust to run the country? or 
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Sep 3, 2015 16:56
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For context it was his reaction to Coopers "I'm not the type of person to vote 500 times against the leadership" comment.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:57
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https://gifsound.com/?gifv=7UlbsDF&v=U06jlgpMtQs 
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Sep 3, 2015 17:08
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 It's the antiparticle to https://vine.co/v/ejAJTxt7Ktj e: and https://gifsound.com/?gif=https://cdn.makeagif.com/media/1-18-2014/0bh9VO.gif&v=3JGJXmpKGXY
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Sep 3, 2015 17:11
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being a litter picker at glastonbury is cool and good, you find lots of drugs and money and the organisers have their poo poo down pat. the site is well looked after and when the festival isn't around the countryside is beautiful, they even have fallow years where they take a break so that the land can recover properly. litter pickers generally get free tickets and are usually provided by charities who get cash for finding people to do the job.
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Sep 3, 2015 17:13
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feedmegin posted:Good news! Or, one of the Few good things about where I live, the only sweet shop in England endorsed by the vegetarian society (which means it's also halal and kosher) And they do internet orders... http://www.sweetexpectations.co.uk/
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Sep 3, 2015 17:14
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Traveller and festival chat has proven the only solution is to ban all forms of camping and caravanning. Seriously though it doesn't matter who you are or where you are, clean up after yourselves dont leave your rubbish lying about, also don't put your fag buts into pint glasses when there's an ashtray next to you, forget travellers people who do that are the real scum.
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Sep 3, 2015 17:14
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Maybe they could point to some issues Corbyn rebelled on where they're confident the Labour leadership had the right answer, rather than just saying it as if it's de facto a bad thing. There's even a helpful website that compiles lists of how MPs voted that I took the liberty of consulting.
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Sep 3, 2015 17:18
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Do travellers generally pay tax or rent for the campgrounds they stay at?
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Sep 3, 2015 17:19
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