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yuming posted:Yea yea next summer June 2016 woo! Outlook owns
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Sep 3, 2015 15:29
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merk posted:We did not swing the vote. It is the dark times. Someone help us figure out where the light is. It's somewhere in the past where being a lurky dick wasn't beneficial to the outcome of your game
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Sep 3, 2015 15:32
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merk posted:We did not swing the vote. It is the dark times. Someone help us figure out where the light is. I've played in a lot of great active games this summer, it's just a matter of availability I think. We're old 
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Sep 3, 2015 15:37
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merk posted:We did not swing the vote. It is the dark times. Someone help us figure out where the light is. well the way I see it there's two related problems: - how do we increase our player pool - what do we do about how we do until then We've brainstormed some ideas for the first (banner ad [assuming this is effective, nobody has actually heard from little_mac yet who has more details] and theme recruiting from other subforums). The second requires some more compromises in the short-term, like mods not opening a game until they know they can fill most of it quickly, and players willing to play games even if its theme/mod/whatever doesn't excite them too much. I mean, it's a problem a kind of... .........queue would solve nicely. yuming posted:I've played in a lot of great active games this summer, it's just a matter of availability I think. We're old
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Sep 3, 2015 15:37
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maybe if we really love mafia we should let it go
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Sep 3, 2015 15:39
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Someone create a banner ad that is exceptional and I will pay money.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:42
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I do think having a full time job is the number one reason I don't have time to play anymore-- I spend a large chunk of time sitting in front of a computer (the other part wrangling teenagers.) When I get home, the last thing I want to do is sit in front of a computer and read more. It feels like more work! The timing of deadlines is a big factor for me too-- there is literally no good time for me during the school year because I'm too tired to stay up.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:44
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Second item: Someone create a Google Doc of past players. You can use votefinder.org/players to help populate this list. Ecco, create a setup for a big game of 20-27 players that will rock the world. I will co-mod to help with votecounts and whatever else you need. We will divvy up the list of past players and send them PMs with personal invitations to Ecco's game. These PMs will be tracked on the Google Doc. If that game fills up, we will create a second game for past players with a new setup created by the next person I randomly nominate. Diqnol, we need your high posting prowess to join this game to help keep it lurker free.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:44
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I think this is not the time for a banner ad. Let's clean the house before we invite guests.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:44
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merk posted:Someone create a banner ad that is exceptional and I will pay money. well hold your money, let's hear from little_mac if the banner ad he used actually got click traffic (presumably he has those stats). if it did then we can probably just rinse and repeat, though I don't recall anyone new showing up as a result of the ad. merk posted:Ecco, create a setup for a big game of 20-27 players that will rock the world. I will co-mod to help with votecounts and whatever else you need. France it is. Gimme a day or so to brainstorm something weird.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:45
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If we're going to do this don't just rush and half rear end it imo
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Sep 3, 2015 15:46
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Another thing is role heavy, larger games seem to fill up easiest and those are aaa so much work to follow and imo don't teach good habits. I enjoy an occasional weird setup, like Amoeba's recent game or Opop's cult game but those were both smaller and weird things are easier to digest in smaller form idk.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:47
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yuming posted:Another thing is role heavy, larger games seem to fill up easiest and those are aaa so much work to follow and imo don't teach good habits. no this is definitely true. I've been saying for a while now (and publicly for a week) that we've gone too far on the pendulum to "role madness" games. Even my wackiest France games are a third vanilla for a reason. MMM Whatchya Say posted:If we're going to do this don't just rush and half rear end it imo agree with this too, though I like merk's leadership and would follow him to hell and back I would.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:48
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:If we're going to do this don't just rush and half rear end it imo I don't see how either of my suggestions are half assing it. Do you want to take the lead on creating the Google Doc?
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Sep 3, 2015 15:48
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yuming posted:Another thing is role heavy, larger games seem to fill up easiest and those are aaa so much work to follow and imo don't teach good habits. I agree so much that I broke my keyboard typing this post so hard.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:48
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I think the success of Raccoon game shows what I've known for a very long time. Mafia is bad. Let Mafia fade from this world, as the fate it rightfully deserves. We can use our energy more constructively to explore new avenues of engaging with the social space of the forums and create new and engaging means of interaction that are not hidebound by the existing structures and traditions of the old world Mafia. Also, my anxiety is perfectly reasonable and rational, assuming that one accepts as a fact that I am a piece of poo poo deserving only of misery and scorn for my failures: past, present, and future.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:49
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Let's not go calling raccoon game a success just yet.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:51
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merk posted:I agree so much that I broke my keyboard typing this post so hard. here is a post that I wrote a few weeks ago http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?goto=post&postid=449028778 Meinberg posted:I think the success of Raccoon game shows what I've known for a very long time. nah also raccoon game hasn't even had a turn process yet let's not call it a success until MMM makes it so.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:51
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Pinterest Mom posted:Let's not go calling raccoon game a success just yet. I mean purely from the "let's get new players into things" perspective.
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Sep 3, 2015 15:53
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EccoRaven posted:no this is definitely true. I've been saying for a while now (and publicly for a week) that we've gone too far on the pendulum to "role madness" games. Even my wackiest France games are a third vanilla for a reason. (1) In my case, those games reach a point where there is too much noise and I start to check out. If I am scum there is no way I'm going to put the effort into ~solving~ what is essentially a role mess. I'm going to put in minimal effort because I can just lie a bit and ignore and no one will notice. But if I'm town I get just as annoyed and there's too many threads going on that it's hard to inject what you think is important to talk about and get other players talking about it too because they're so distracted by some brutal visitor or something. (2) If a player expects a cool role, they tune out in a smaller simpler game because nothing is happening. EXAKT's recent game, Tournament of Heroes is a good example. For one, there was some great content in that game. However, it was extremely distracting in its mechanics (from what I remember) and that is hard for players to keep straight. Limited resource theory!
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Sep 3, 2015 15:56
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When games go from discussing content to discussing night actions, I tune out.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:06
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I enjoy night actions and figuring out how they all play together, personally. I also enjoy playing vanilla and just lying a lot of no discernable reason.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:09
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yuming posted:EXAKT's recent game, Tournament of Heroes is a good example. It's a really unfortunate series of incentives since players like to sign up for the "crazy" games since they want something new but also don't have the time to ""think"" too hard about a game (analyzing roleclaims is less time-consuming than reading post histories and building cases), but as the player pool decreases mods want to make their games crazier and crazier to capture the limited resource which in turn makes more and more games about roles and less about agency. The "arms race" I talk about in the linked post is very real.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:10
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merk posted:I don't see how either of my suggestions are half assing it. I guess it's less that half rear end part and more the rushing part I'm concerned about. There's been a couple times where people have wanted to do something in the mafia community and it's happened really quickly.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:10
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Also raccoon game will be really cool when I can be on a computer for more than half an hour at a time
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Sep 3, 2015 16:11
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I like toying with people 
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Sep 3, 2015 16:12
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EccoRaven posted:Yeah the post I linked above is a not-too-subtle critique of that specific game (since it was both still ongoing and I promised EXAKT I wouldn't make a stink about the setup when I signed up). Speaking as the scum it was incredibly frustrating from our end as well since so many mods don't care about how roles work together, they just do whatever and hope for the best. QPQ and I were convinced it was all doomed from really early on (and it's a miracle we won at all considering how anti-scum the mod made the setup). The best large, role heavy games I remember playing in off the top of my head are Pander's Ace Attorney game and the Harry Potter Mask setup. I can't really say how much of their success was due to player style and participation and how much due to their balance-- but I think those ingredients are really important for a satisfying game.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:17
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yuming posted:Absurdly Vanilla Mafia was a great content based game I had a lot of fun playing this summer. I stopped giving a gently caress about ~calling people town~ and ~mafia dadding~ and instead really focused on outlining exactly what I thought, and then explaining the (obvious to some but not others) logistical reasons that I thought certain actions were scummy. It's important to externalize those thought processes because without it correct reads can appear random, when in actuality they are usually (for me at least) based on player motivations. It's a real pitfall to call certain raw actions scummy ~doing X is scummy~ because the context is so so important. But if town players are too scared to look scummy to share their thought processes town won't share enough information to win aaa vicious circle. idk this all makes sense to me but it is really fun to play in a game where it all falls into place.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:26
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I sent a PM to Little Mac about the banner ad. He responded: "didn't Mills buy it?" welp. I could swear LM took the credit for it last thread.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:29
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yuming posted:It's a real pitfall to call certain raw actions scummy ~doing X is scummy~ because the context is so so important. But if town players are too scared to look scummy to share their thought processes town won't share enough information to win aaa vicious circle. In my first couple town games I was trying really hard to be funny and honest and was called out as scummy constantly for it. Now I'm super self conscious and reserved as a mafia player regardless of alignment and I am called scum significantly less and yet somehow also am less helpful to town, I think. It's definitely a very weird phenomenon.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:35
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BottleKnight posted:In my first couple town games I was trying really hard to be funny and honest and was called out as scummy constantly for it. Now I'm super self conscious and reserved as a mafia player regardless of alignment and I am called scum significantly less and yet somehow also am less helpful to town, I think. It's definitely a very weird phenomenon. You should just make fart noises if somebody calls you scum. It always works.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:36
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CCKeane posted:You should just make fart noises if somebody calls you scum. It always works. At first I just wanted to fit in, now I'm just kind of in a rut and need to climb out!
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Sep 3, 2015 16:39
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BottleKnight posted:In my first couple town games I was trying really hard to be funny and honest and was called out as scummy constantly for it. Now I'm super self conscious and reserved as a mafia player regardless of alignment and I am called scum significantly less and yet somehow also am less helpful to town, I think. It's definitely a very weird phenomenon. My first few town games I would get super aggressive to the first person to call me scum. Now I'm just like "yep that's expected" and move on.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:48
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13 player games with open or at least limited-possibility setups comprised of well-understood roles, detailed in the OP, are the most satisfying and strategic. The game of Mafia is a finely crafted mechanism. It is like Chess, in that amazing subtlety arises from apparent simplicity. Chess is not better if pawns are replaced by "Laser Ninjas" with new convoluted abilities. When there are vague special snowflake roles and abilities floating around that could do anything and interact in unpredictable ways, it makes discussion and even night action targeting start to revolve around WIFOM'ing the Mod rather than the Players.
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Sep 3, 2015 17:08
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BottleKnight posted:In my first couple town games I was trying really hard to be funny and honest and was called out as scummy constantly for it. Now I'm super self conscious and reserved as a mafia player regardless of alignment and I am called scum significantly less and yet somehow also am less helpful to town, I think. It's definitely a very weird phenomenon.
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Sep 3, 2015 17:09
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yuming posted:Don't hide what's inside~ *tears out own liver, screams and waves it about*
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Sep 3, 2015 17:22
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brb writing the setup for laser ninja chess mafia
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Sep 3, 2015 17:23
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Kashuno posted:My first few town games I would get super aggressive to the first person to call me scum. Now I'm just like "yep that's expected" and move on. For some reason I find it easier to determine if someone is scum if they are voting me, like it is just easier to determine if their reaction to me is genuine or fake, but then sometimes people are just dumb and their vote on me feels dumb and then I tunnel them into oblivion
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Sep 3, 2015 17:29
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Is someone going to take the lead on creating that Google Doc? We will start sending invitation PMs once Ecco's setup is ready.
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Sep 3, 2015 17:37
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JakeP posted:For some reason I find it easier to determine if someone is scum if they are voting me, like it is just easier to determine if their reaction to me is genuine or fake, but then sometimes people are just dumb and their vote on me feels dumb and then I tunnel them into oblivion 
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