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Rutibex posted:People can't just be loving Cosmic Encounter due to nostalgia, lots of people pick it up brand new to them, and there are lots of games from the 70's that no one gives a poo poo about any more. I don't think you can boil a game down to a set of objectively "good" or "bad" elements, and then measure the quality of a game by tallying up the total positive an negative elements. The total is greater than the sum of its parts or whatever, at least in classic games like Cosmic that are beloved for decades. It's possible these new people have never played a designer board game, someone suggested CE as a "fun" game and the new people decided that it was "fun." With how much CE is talked up by people, I can also believe a solid amount of confirmation bias is responsible.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:22
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Thanks for this.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:41
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UK Goons:
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It's also spreading in the US, picked it up from CSI just now.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:43
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The Codenames app is out for Android as well, creates a randomized key pattern and has a customizable timer. It's pretty nice!
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Sep 4, 2015 16:50
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Boardgame Warehouse has it. They also have Tragedy Looper: Midnight Circle. Made for a good double buy.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:50
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Guy A. Person posted:I think Cosmic has broken your idea of what bluffing entails, because it actually has very little despite everyone calling it a bluffing game. Bluffing in Cosmic Encounter works best when everyone at the table has a good level of experience at how the game works. -The number of ships played and whether or not a player asks for allies can indicate how they feel about their hand, and this can be used as a bluff to lull their opponent into playing a card at the wrong time. (IE, fooling someone into thinking you'll be playing a high attack card when you actually just have a hand of garbage, getting them to play their ace when a two would do.) -Sabotage in mutual agreements is common. Joining someone as an ally puts you at risk of being part of a suicide attack. Or, an offer to play mutual Negotiate cards may be met with an attack card instead. Sometimes players will turn down an offer to negotiate just to spin around and play a losing negotiate card anyways, to steal cards out of their opponent's hand. -The rules of Cosmic permit you to say anything you want about your hand, this is where creative players can pull off the best bluffs. I've threatened negotiating players with negotiation canceling cards I didn't actually have. I've wheedled players with temptations of great deals if they would negotiate with me, just to get a feel for whether they actually had any negotiate cards at all, the only card that would have ruined my play at the time. Bluffing about the intentions of other players happens all the time. If a game of Cosmic Encounter doesn't involve a regular barrage of lies and threats from all sides of the table, then it really can become a rote game of minimal choices like what gets argued here a lot. Cosmic Encounter's high level of asymmetry and miscellaneous bullshit do not make it a good board game in the traditional sense, but they make it a great performance piece. Amorphous Abode fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 16:55
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The Silver Snail posted:-The rules of Cosmic permit you to say anything you want about your hand, this is where creative players can pull off the best bluffs. I've threatened negotiating players with negotiation canceling cards I didn't actually have. I've wheedled players with temptations of great deals if they would negotiate with me, just to get a feel for whether they actually had any negotiate cards at all, the only card that would have ruined my play at the time. Bluffing about the intentions of other players happens all the time. The key problem about this is that due to the variance of the deck, there's no way to make an educated guess about what the opponent is holding. I can make any claim about any card out of the hundred and you really can't argue it unless I say I'm holding a Flare which you're holding. Bluffing isn't worthwhile without deduction to balance it out.
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Sep 4, 2015 17:09
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Jabor posted:Ah yes, Resistance, the game that always comes down to coin flip and has nothing at all to do with lying and deduction. If the assassin guesses who Merlin is, bad guys win every time. A good bluffing game is about making educated guesses, but I think some people are confused by the idea that educated guesses are still random.
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Sep 4, 2015 17:19
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Broken Loose posted:The key problem about this is that due to the variance of the deck, there's no way to make an educated guess about what the opponent is holding. I can make any claim about any card out of the hundred and you really can't argue it unless I say I'm holding a Flare which you're holding. I would say it's more that bluffing isn't reliable without deduction. A wild bluff and some theatrics can still cause indecision, and that's been enough for me in the past.
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Sep 4, 2015 17:19
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Broken Loose posted:The key problem about this is that due to the variance of the deck, there's no way to make an educated guess about what the opponent is holding. I can make any claim about any card out of the hundred and you really can't argue it unless I say I'm holding a Flare which you're holding. There's lots of opportunity to get information about people's hands in Cosmic. Less than some other games, but that's a deliberate compromise to accessibility. Lots of people dislike poker and Resistance because of exactly the things you're claiming to be strengths of those games.
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Sep 4, 2015 17:22
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Broken Loose posted:The key problem about this is that due to the variance of the deck, there's no way to make an educated guess about what the opponent is holding. I can make any claim about any card out of the hundred and you really can't argue it unless I say I'm holding a Flare which you're holding. That's really not true; you can know a lot about what a player has. Or, at least, what a player doesn't have anyway. While there's a bunch of different cards, there's only so many you have to actually keep track of. By far most of the attack cards are in the 8-12 range; so much so that most encounters come down to number of ships as the deciding factor. You really only have to watch for the kill cards; there are only 5 cards higher than a 15 in the deck, and even without a special power you'll see some of them in your hand or in the discard pile. The flares also become easier to track as the game goes on, since they stay in the hand of the player that plays them. Then there's the information you get based on play; who the player invites, where they choose to attack, if they suggest a shared negotiate, etc. None of this information is 100% reliable all the time, but that's true of any bluffing game.
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Sep 4, 2015 17:44
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T-Bone posted:Believing that hype after finally tabling Argent. Mainly I've ignored Marks for the most part and it hasn't hurt me TOO bad, but I could just be lucky. That said some tiles give out Marks quicker and easier, like the Chapel, which the default setup for 3 players doesn't use which makes chasing Marks more of a thing you need to commit to. I'd never take a Mark from the Council Chamber over a supporter, for instance, because you know that most supporters is a vote but also that there are five potential "most department" votes plus a diversity vote plus SECOND-most supporters vote, all of which make supporters more valuable than simply taking a Mark.
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Sep 4, 2015 18:42
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With Argent, I've been playing with a 'Variant' I guess? I think it was orignally going to be the rules, but I'm not sure if it's in the rulebook either now. That is, less voters. The lower the playercount, the less voters there are. I've been going with, 5 voters for 3 players, 7 for 4 and 9 for 5. We usually play at 4, and have never played at 2 or 6, so I'm not even going to worry about those. But this makes marks more important, obviously, and less likely you'll just luck into a voter. But then I also like the reduced mage numbers when drafting because I want my games cuthroat as all hell.
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Sep 4, 2015 18:49
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Magnetic North posted:That person sounds like a peach to play with in any game. Haha, yep. You know how people joke about flipping the board? She's the only person I know that has actually done it. Only once, but yeah...
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Sep 4, 2015 20:08
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Broken Loose posted:while in MvC2 there is a brilliant game that can be played using the 10 best characters in the game (such to the point where the most balanced fighter ever made was based off of that version of MvC2) Broken Loose posted:I've seen this firsthand. A game came out with more playable characters than Marvel vs. Capcom 2 that otherwise plays nearly identically to MvC2, but people still praise MvC2 because 56 > 16 even though Servbot, Roll, Dan, Bone Wolverine, and so on shouldn't count. People are idiots. It's really amusing how hard you're trying to not namedrop Skullgirls. Rutibex posted:People can't just be loving Cosmic Encounter due to nostalgia, lots of people pick it up brand new to them, and there are lots of games from the 70's that no one gives a poo poo about any more. I don't think you can boil a game down to a set of objectively "good" or "bad" elements, and then measure the quality of a game by tallying up the total positive an negative elements. The total is greater than the sum of its parts or whatever, at least in classic games like Cosmic that are beloved for decades. Counterpoint: Munchkin sells like gold-plated cocaine, and most of the people buying it weren't around for the usenet-era elfgrog jokes that fuel the game. What people forget is that nostalgia serves as a second sociological function--delineation of social in-group and out-group. A lot of mediocre nerd "classics" get perpetuated into TYOOL 2015 because appreciation/worship of these icons is a group status marker, inherited from older peers that oftentimes themselves inherited these icons from even older greybeards. TL;DR lovely old games persist because Old Nerds worship them nostalgically, and Neophyte Nerds want the Old Nerds to like and respect them. See also: geek "culture" as a whole and the eternal reverence for eighties basement-poster-fodder.
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Sep 4, 2015 20:23
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Gutter Owl posted:It's really amusing how hard you're trying to not namedrop Skullgirls. The subtlest of namedrops.
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Sep 4, 2015 22:28
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Happy long weekend everybody! Come back with tales of playing Space Alert with Aunt Shirley! Edit: Everybody American, anyway.
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Sep 4, 2015 22:38
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Gutter Owl posted:
OR some people have different tastes in games than others. Seems a lot simpler than the idea that everyone who likes Cosmic is somehow a slave to nostalgia and the acceptance of old nerds. A lot of people I know like Cosmic and had never heard of it or played it before the FFG reprint. Sure, it's somewhat well known in board gaming circles but I wouldn't exactly call it mainstream.
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Sep 4, 2015 22:40
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There's Labor Day in Canada. Well, Labour Day.
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Sep 4, 2015 22:40
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Lord Frisk posted:There's Labor Day in Canada. Well, Labour Day. I thought everywhere else celebrated May Day or something instead?
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Sep 4, 2015 22:50
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Kaddish posted:Going on a 16 day trip to Italy with no checked luggage and am bringing: My blushing bride and I spent three weeks in Italy. If you have a chance kayak the Amalfi coast, and spend at least one day aimlessly walking around Rome.
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Sep 4, 2015 23:22
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The first time I played Cosmic, I had never heard of it, there were no old nerds around and I didn't know about SU&SD or the dice tower. I loved the game. But I've also hated the game. It all depends on who I'm playing with. The guys I normally play with talk everything out, bluff, make threats, get into the spirit of it, and that is always a great time. We spend more time yelling at each other than flipping cards and moving saucers around. But I've also played it with people that just go through the bare mechanics, bitch about overpowered aliens and are obsessed with the RNG. That sucks. It is like playing a pen and paper role playing game with some one who just wants to focus on the probability of the dice rolls and the stat modifiers on their character sheets. I don't think cosmic is a perfect game but I do think there are people that will get and others that just won't.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:11
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Yeah but you could play Coup or The Resistance or Netrunner or COIN and have all the fun bluffing and/or asymmetry and/or politics without the overhanging structural problems
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Sep 5, 2015 00:19
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StashAugustine posted:Yeah but you could play Coup or The Resistance or Netrunner or COIN and have all the fun bluffing and/or asymmetry and/or politics without the overhanging structural problems Yeah but some people don't like those games for various reasons.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:22
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PerniciousKnid posted:Yeah but some people don't like those games for various reasons. Holy poo poo, really? Now you're just being purposely thick. The point is there are probably 100 other games out there that deliver some of all of what people like about CE, but are better games. We are literally in a golden age of boardgaming where quality products get released every month, why would you play a 40 year old game that's plagued with all sorts of lovely design decisions?
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Sep 5, 2015 00:39
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StashAugustine posted:Yeah but you could play Coup or The Resistance or Netrunner or COIN and have all the fun bluffing and/or asymmetry and/or politics without the overhanging structural problems I love resistance but only with larger player groups and I love netrunner, but I have exactly one friend that plays it and it is only two players. Cosmic fills a nice space between two players and 6. Again I don't think cosmic is the perfect game a lot of people make it out to be, and I hate to bring the subjective nature of fun into the thread again, but I've played some amazing, memorable games of cosmic. Would I rather play space alert? Yeah of course, but cosmic is also incredibly easy and fast to teach. Writing cosmic off as a terrible game is silly, but i think its strengths also only appeal to certain types of players.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:46
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Crackbone posted:Holy poo poo, really? Because they aren't lovely decisions, they just don't conform to your tastes? Some people like variety with a light helping of bluffing and politics. Clam down about people's board game likes. 
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Sep 5, 2015 00:49
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I mean to backpedal a little, there are some reasons to play CE over the games I mentioned. The Resistance has less asymmetry, COIN has less bluffing (and is much heavier), Netrunner has no politics, and so on. I mean I'm (mostly) enjoying a Virgin Queen PBF despite the fact that it's actually not very good, simply because it's not every day you can wargame out the Dutch revolts. But the fact is that most of the elements in Cosmic have been done better in recent games.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:49
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drat Dirty Ape posted:OR some people have different tastes in games than others. Sociologists everywhere would have some words about "a lot simpler idea" on how people behave automatically being the correct one
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Sep 5, 2015 01:25
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Before anyone tries, no, this is not a situation where Occam's Razor applies.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:41
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i did it i got loopin' chewie
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Sep 5, 2015 01:50
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Countblanc posted:Sociologists everywhere would have some words about "a lot simpler idea" on how people behave automatically being the correct one If I wanted nerd acceptance I wouldn't be admitting that I like playing cosmic in this thread. I even sometimes enjoy playing Talisman (it's kind of rare, but it has happened).
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Sep 5, 2015 01:53
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deadwing posted:i did it Best post in this thread this week
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Sep 5, 2015 01:53
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Countblanc posted:Sociologists everywhere would have some words about "a lot simpler idea" on how people behave automatically being the correct one Some Numbers posted:Before anyone tries, no, this is not a situation where Occam's Razor applies. Whereas ignoring his example (which at least shows it's possible to like the game independent of social pressures, the alternative hypothesis being that you can't do that) because it disagrees with what you want to believe makes you masters of science, right?
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Sep 5, 2015 01:56
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Whereas ignoring his example (which at least shows it's possible to like the game independent of social pressures, the alternative hypothesis being that you can't do that) because it disagrees with what you want to believe makes you masters of science, right? It does.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:58
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Bottom Liner posted:Best post in this thread this week 
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Sep 5, 2015 02:01
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Whereas ignoring his example (which at least shows it's possible to like the game independent of social pressures, the alternative hypothesis being that you can't do that) because it disagrees with what you want to believe makes you masters of science, right? I don't know why you inferred that I have a dog in this race, because I really don't.
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Sep 5, 2015 02:06
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Sep 5, 2015 02:15
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I got to play Loopin' Chewie today at work It was worth it
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Sep 5, 2015 02:23
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I can't stand star wars but I kinda want to make that every profile picture I have.
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Sep 5, 2015 03:46
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