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lmaoboy1998 posted:I'm sort of convinced by all of this but a question does suggest itself. School isn't learning anything useful, it's learning to sit exams. I spent a full half of my top set science class doing previous exam papers. I became very good at passing biology exams, but I remember almost nothing about biology. Results are useful to the child if they wish to seek higher education but I don't think they're anything like as useful as a bearable school experience. No good having good marks if you end up hosed in the head.
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Sep 4, 2015 15:55
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OwlFancier posted:School isn't learning anything useful, it's learning to sit exams. I spent a full half of my top set science class doing previous exam papers. I became very good at passing biology exams, but I remember almost nothing about biology. Holy crap. I think I can rephrase that as "Bad school isn't learning anything useful, it's learning to sit exams." We were doing structured learning until a couple of months before exams, then revision classes, then practice papers on and off for the last few weeks. I guess schools have radically different approaches. How on earth did your school expect teachers to cover the national curriculum in half a year?
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Sep 4, 2015 16:00
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Every time Corbyn's having a labour candidate discussion it always plays out vaguely like when you were in secondary school and your tutor decided the way to fix your bullying issue was to bring all your bullies to sit down with you and have a chat and it always coincidentally worked out that you just weren't putting the effort to get along with them between the insults and beatings.Jippa posted:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/04/nigel-farage-urges-jeremy-corbyn-to-join-anti-eu-campaign Is that man incapable of not looking like a mutant frog which gain sentience and then lost it in a racist fever dream.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:01
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Prince John posted:Holy crap. I think I can rephrase that as "Bad school isn't learning anything useful, it's learning to sit exams." We did exam papers most weeks for most of the year, then the last couple of months was practice papers non stop every class. I don't know how my teacher fit it in, but she was teaching top set biology so I think the idea was that we didn't need very long to learn the stuff, so she taught that very quickly and then spent all the rest of the time doing mock exams, or walking us through past papers.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:02
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It would be interesting to see how it varies over time. I was in school just past the turn of the millennium so maybe things are done differently these days. Edit: To change the subject completely, there's an interesting article about the government's "hidden art" collection. The Taxpayer's Alliance has highlighted that government and local authorities own £3.5bn worth of art, but only 3% is on public display. quote:The government and local authorities own art worth at least £3.5 billion, but only a tiny fraction is on display, research from a pressure group claims. quote:Amongst local councils, Manchester City Council owns the most valuable collection - of 46,347 pieces, worth some £347 million. Of those, 1,017 (2.1%) are on display. It looks like the Government Art Collection has a majority of pieces on display, so presumably it's mostly local authorities that are dragging the average down to such a low level. Prince John fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 16:06
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On educationchat, the problem is that middle-class parents who care about school league tables can and do easily move to areas with better schools in, or afford houses in more expensive places in the first place. To what extent parental involvement is key to education is another matter, but even in a comprehensive system where everyone is forced to attend their local comp, you will get good schools and bad schools, posh schools and working-class schools. What the solution to that is is another matter.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:22
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Prince John posted:It would be interesting to see how it varies over time. I was in school just past the turn of the millennium so maybe things are done differently these days. Most local government owned museums just don't have the space to display most of their art, I'm checking out the BMAG collections centre next weekend and by all accounts it is huge. Seems to me like the solution is to open more museums but knowing the taxpayers alliance what they want is for the government to sell the art to them
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Sep 4, 2015 16:27
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Prince John posted:It would be interesting to see how it varies over time. I was in school just past the turn of the millennium so maybe things are done differently these days. OTOH the Taxpayer's Alliance are a bunch of complete and utter fuckwits that would cry bloody murder if the council raised taxes even slightly so they could afford somewhere to display this art. What they want is for the government to be forced to sell off the collection cheaply to them, so that it can be in some upper-middle-class prick's house where nobody that likes art as something more than a status symbol will ever be able to see it again.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:31
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nothing to seehere posted:On educationchat, the problem is that middle-class parents who care about school league tables can and do easily move to areas with better schools in, or afford houses in more expensive places in the first place. To what extent parental involvement is key to education is another matter, but even in a comprehensive system where everyone is forced to attend their local comp, you will get good schools and bad schools, posh schools and working-class schools. What the solution to that is is another matter. 
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Sep 4, 2015 16:35
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The biggest factor in education is home life and certain schools get good league table results precisely because middle-class parents choose to send their kids there.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:36
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lmaoboy1998 posted:I'm sort of convinced by all of this but a question does suggest itself. it was a comprehensive school in central london so we were all blazing bare weed bruv In all seriousness though I don't think I'm the guy to ask that question of, because I do think that the education I received at a failing school was probably poorer than the education I might have got at Eton or wherever. The point I'm making is that school choice can be about a bunch of things which explicitly aren't academic acheivement.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:37
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Prince John posted:It would be interesting to see how it varies over time. I was in school just past the turn of the millennium so maybe things are done differently these days. And yet I don't know many empty art gallieries, so I suspect the issue there may be lack of display space.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:48
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Why are people talking about Acland Burghley as though it was the failing school that Jeremy Corbyn didn't want to send his kid to? Acland Burghley's been one of those places where the catchment area has been a matter of counting paving stones for the last 25 years. If they'd have been in that catchment area there wouldn't have been a problem. The schools that Corbyn's kid might have gone to were (as-was) Holloway Boys and George Orwell, and it's no coincidence that both those schools are now called something else after having been turned upside down and given a good shake.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:52
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Who on earth names a school after george loving orwell?
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Sep 4, 2015 16:55
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What's wrong with George Orwell? Apart from the sort of... Orwellian overtones.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:56
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My view of school may be somewhat warped but there's a reason I haven't read 1984 and it's because I don't want to have flashbacks. I can't imagine actually going to a school named after him. Only marginally more inauspicious than the Gary Glitter School of Music (and Young Fiddlers organisation).
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Sep 4, 2015 16:58
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spectralent posted:Is that man incapable of not looking like a mutant frog which gain sentience and then lost it in a racist fever dream. He reminds me of Jabba the Hut... Regarding secondary choices here is my anecdote: When I was facing the choice (in 1984), my options where a grammar 20 miles away, an assisted place at a boarding school in Co. Durham (80 miles away), or perhaps the worst Secondary Modern in the county (where my friends were going). My parents were liberal and uncomplicated people and gave me, an 11 year old, the choice. Naturally I went with my friends, against all advice. We fell out 2 weeks into the first year and never spoke again. Fast forward to 4 years ago and my son was in a similar position, sans grammar and assisted places no longer exist. I duly noted that he desperately wanted to go an extremely poor PPI new build that has been in special measures since it opened, with his friends. I made the decision for him to go to the consistently outstanding comp, of which we live* in the catchment area. This school has better results that all the local fee paying schools. As you might expect he was unhappy that I had used my parental executive powers. Fast forward to now and every week he thanks me for making that decision. Also my other children are a shoe-in to the best school in the county, which is massively oversubscribed. Their friends parents are all desperately trying to get their friends into this school. House prices in our area have gone up as a result. The moral of this story? 11 year old's don't make good decisions. Does this make me a bad person? * We moved house after our kids had started in primary, and didn't move school.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:58
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OwlFancier posted:My view of school may be somewhat warped but there's a reason I haven't read 1984 and it's because I don't want to have flashbacks. I can't imagine actually going to a school named after him. You're comparing a satirist and political essayist to a child abuser because he criticised things he didn't like?
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Sep 4, 2015 17:13
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No I'm saying it's an awful name for a school. Don't name schools after things that conjure hellish images of unspeakable horror.
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Sep 4, 2015 17:15
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OwlFancier posted:No I'm saying it's an awful name for a school. Don't name schools after things that conjure hellish images of unspeakable horror. how else are people gonna know it's a school?
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Sep 4, 2015 17:18
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Generally the looming grey pebbledashed 1970's brick on the horizon works pretty well. Brutalist is too charitable, it doesn't even look imposing, it just looks like despair with double glazing.
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Sep 4, 2015 17:20
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OwlFancier posted:No I'm saying it's an awful name for a school. Don't name schools after things that conjure hellish images of unspeakable horror. Don't worry, they made it better. It's now named after a cat food. (I am not making that up.) http://www.iamschool.co.uk/good-news-iams/
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Sep 4, 2015 17:43
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It's like when they renamed Mr Dog Comprehensive to the Cesar Free School
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Sep 4, 2015 17:56
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OwlFancier posted:Generally the looming grey pebbledashed 1970's brick on the horizon works pretty well.
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Sep 4, 2015 17:58
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Trin Tragula posted:Don't worry, they made it better. It's now named after a cat food. (I am not making that up.) jesus christ
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Sep 4, 2015 17:58
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OwlFancier posted:No I'm saying it's an awful name for a school. Don't name schools after things that conjure hellish images of unspeakable horror. I dunno I'd kinda want to send my kids to H.P. Lovecraft Comprehensive
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Sep 4, 2015 17:59
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Angepain posted:I dunno I'd kinda want to send my kids to H.P. Lovecraft Comprehensive Only if into every wall was carved a fresco of Cthuluian monstrosities devouring the damned. I mean, if that's your schtick you need to go all-out with it. No half-measures.
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Sep 4, 2015 18:02
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george orwell was a world famous satirist of course he should have things named after him
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Sep 4, 2015 18:03
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Autonomous Monster posted:Only if into every wall was carved a fresco of Cthuluian monstrosities devouring the damned. I mean, if that's your schtick you need to go all-out with it. No half-measures. We had that at reception but I think it was supposed to be a student art exhibit.
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Sep 4, 2015 18:06
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Angepain posted:I dunno I'd kinda want to send my kids to H.P. Lovecraft Comprehensive
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Sep 4, 2015 18:06
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Autonomous Monster posted:Only if into every wall was carved a fresco of Cthuluian monstrosities devouring the damned. I mean, if that's your schtick you need to go all-out with it. No half-measures. Just a load of non-Euclidean architecture
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Sep 4, 2015 18:11
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Lt. Danger posted:The biggest factor in education is home life and certain schools get good league table results precisely because middle-class parents choose to send their kids there. Most teachers I know would say this too. The amount of difference attentive parents make is crazy
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Sep 4, 2015 18:18
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It's definitely why I'm literate (original approach to punctuation notwithstanding) because my mum read to me a lot as a kid. Also bought me lots of books. Definitely wouldn't be any good with words without that input.
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Sep 4, 2015 18:21
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Angepain posted:I dunno I'd kinda want to send my kids to H.P. Lovecraft Comprehensive All the kids mumbling through Cthulu phtagn at assembly before their first period of geography at the mountains of madness then their second period of racial determinism. Sounds fun
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Sep 4, 2015 18:25
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Angepain posted:I dunno I'd kinda want to send my kids to H.P. Lovecraft Comprehensive Eton isn't a comprehensive.
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Sep 4, 2015 18:30
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Prince John posted:Thanks for the anecdote! That's exactly how I would have pictured him! I'll confess that PISA is the only metric I know, while nobody thinks it's perfect. What's the TIMMS one? I seem to recall that Spectator article being rubbished the first time it appeared. And it's not like the Spectator is exactly likely to be pro Scottish left anything, especially, as you point out, during the referendum campaign. I don't know if you've seen the backlash against Sturgeon's recent announcement of more testing for school kids, but one of the big arguments against it is "it could be used to create league tables!!!!", because anyone with sense hates that idea of boiling schools down to metrics like that. Like others are saying, all else is never equal when it comes to education. Among other things, schools invariably reflect their catchments and the backgrounds of those who send their kids there. Some schools are more aspirational, while others care more about making their stats look good. Re my own anecdote, I didn't go to said school in the end, doing what basically everyone where I come from does and going to the catchment school, which is merely below average. The reason my mum thought that the "worse" school would be more suitable, was that the "better" school had recently had issues with suicides, hate campaigns and bullying (something I had been suffering from at primary school for the previous couple of years already), and had a dreadful reputation locally no matter what results or inspections said, while the "worse" school had fantastic leadership, a great environment for pupils and did a huge amount for kids in an area of significant local disadvantage. She knew that her weird little brat was going to get great results wherever she went. My mum actually taught at both schools in the preceding few years of the decision and pretty much ran away screaming from the "better" school, which I eventually chose to go to because easier journey, bigger size meaning more opportunities, and far better extracurricular offerings. Sorry mum. EDIT: I've just looked again at the results tables and she also absolutely loathed working at the supposed best school in the region (which I was theoretically just on the edge of the catchment for). Which everyone knows has shite facilities and had big drug busts a few years ago. Oh well! Anyway, you don't turn around failing schools by getting all the kids with involved parents being sent elsewhere. Yay comprehensive education! EDIT: Re. 11 year olds supposedly making terrible decisions, well I made my decision at 11 as mentioned and got a ridiculous stream of As that led to jokes about use of a Time Turner, amazing opportunities from the extracurriculars that swung my decision, opportunities I wouldn't have had at the other choice but ended up giving me a fulfilling career, and a group of good friends that have stuck with me for fifteen years. Could I really have done any better if she'd made the choice for me? I'm so calling my mum when she gets home to ask if she regrets letting me pick, though I bet I know what the answer will be. Acaila fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 18:32
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V. Illych L. posted:aren't you a literal card-carrying member of the Communist Party of Britain? I dunno if Jakiri is. I am though, I just wanted to post that I got my CPB card autographed by Alexei Sayle a couple of years ago and I'm still happy about it. 
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Sep 4, 2015 18:37
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School chat: my mother lied on forms (nan's address)to put us in the catchment area for one of the better state schools in east London, which lead to me taking the silverstink/north london line to and from school every bloody day for a couple of years before we moved back that way. Turns out it was a total waste of time because they had been fiddling OFSTEAD for years, they lost total control of the student body towards the end of my time there to the point where they gave up entirely on teaching several classes including RE at a RC school because nobody gave a gently caress (my mate Ian was always more interested in setting bibles on fire and trying to hit the year 7s in the playground below with them from the 6th floor window.), the head teacher only got stabbed twice. I only got stabbed once, and a hole blown in my shin from a home made firework. Hackney 
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Sep 4, 2015 18:53
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Think the worst we had was someone burned down one of the mobile classrooms. I don't feel, in hindsight, that my using the fire extinguishers like really good water pistols was very helpful in averting that. On the plus side, I got promoted to an indoor classroom for my RE lesson.
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Sep 4, 2015 19:07
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OwlFancier posted:And yet I don't know many empty art gallieries, so I suspect the issue there may be lack of display space. This justifies the Taxpayer's Alliance raising the issue though. Is it moral for local councils to accrue hordes of artwork that they know they don't have sufficient display space for? Should it even be in the function of a local council to have an art collection? If a council is displaying 1% of its art and rotates its museum displays every, say, 2 years, then it would take 200 years for the public to view its collection. That seems completely excessive a collection - presumably they have more than enough bequests to fill their museums without actually purchasing more art that they won't show. They're also ignoring the wishes of the bequeathers. With the percentages being talked about, they could sell their purchased art to open more museums to show the bequethed art. Failing that, if they're not going to sell some of it, then they should loan the unused pieces out around the world to generate an income to offset cuts to local services. Prince John fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 19:17
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