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This game, which is so good the foundation of all my complaints is that I want more of it, is so bad! Here is a multiple page long essay explaining how bad the game is because I want to play so much more of it and it just wasn't enough give me more I deserve it. Why do we game? Just to suffer?
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Sep 6, 2015 17:47
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I'd rather have had a complete game than a frustratingly incomplete one which just leaves you wanting more which you'll never get and leaves you feeling like you kind of wasted your time at the end, yeah. Its almost as if the game leaves you feeling pain for the giant chunk that must have been taken out of it and didn't get to experience. Kinda like a Phantom Pain.
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Sep 6, 2015 17:51
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Under the vegetable posted:This game, which is so good the foundation of all my complaints is that I want more of it, is so bad! Here is a multiple page long essay explaining how bad the game is because I want to play so much more of it and it just wasn't enough give me more I deserve it. Why do we game? Just to suffer? I think everyone enjoys the game a bunch, but feels the story sort of got pretty retarded (sometimes due to obvious cuts for the game) regardless of the reasons why it got shafted. People are allowed to criticize as well as enjoy things, you're acting pretty entitled to being a bitch.
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Sep 6, 2015 17:52
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lovely Wizard posted:I think everyone enjoys the game a bunch, but feels the story sort of got pretty retarded (sometimes due to obvious cuts for the game) regardless of the reasons why it got shafted. People are allowed to criticize as well as enjoy things, you're acting pretty entitled to being a bitch. he is actually right though and that wasnt a very good burn also
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Sep 6, 2015 17:53
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I'm not entirely sure what Kid Mantis' deal is, but somehow, i was immensely pissed off by that character. He keeps appearing from nowhere, anywhere, anytime, doing whatever the plot requires him to do. I'm sure he's supposed to be spooky, but he appears way too often for that, and his interventions make little sense: sometimes his powers (which can do loving anything) are lent to people who hate Big Boss a lot, sometimes he does whatever on his own. He seems the closest to a Deus Ex Machina character I've ever seen. It's absolutely meaningless to ask why he acts the way he does, because it's only according to plot. And it's kind of embarrassing when so much depends on him, when everything can fall apart when someone nearby is pissed off enough. It makes Skullface look like a tremendous idiot and Kid Mantis like the most bored god in existence. Vast amounts of plot are up to the whims of a god-like non-character. And for how much they're played up, it sure is disappointing that, nope, Volgin, Eli and Metal Gear mean poo poo, it's almost 100% Mantis show. Why was there a need for Volgin's corpse anyway, when it could apparently materialize and dissolve at will? So many questions
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Sep 6, 2015 18:05
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lovely Wizard posted:I think everyone enjoys the game a bunch, but feels the story sort of got pretty retarded (sometimes due to obvious cuts for the game) regardless of the reasons why it got shafted. People are allowed to criticize as well as enjoy things, you're acting pretty entitled to being a bitch. Ooh, I struck a nerve?
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Sep 6, 2015 18:06
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THE PLOT DOESN'T MATTER TO A STORY!!! This game perfectly ties together Gene, Scene, and Meme, the primary themes of the previous metal gear games, and the ending is insanely important for that purpose. Venom Snake is made into Big Boss by experiencing all of his memories and previous missions (Scene), to carry out his will and expand his legend and philosophy (Meme). All of this sets up Solid Snakes confrontation with Venom, and Big Boss in Outer Heaven and Zanzibarland, his victory shows that Big Boss' son surpasses his father, and that he is ready to inherit the Boss' will (Gene). After surpassing his father's phantom, and then his father, Solid Snake is the sole inheritor of The Boss' will and unites the world by destroying the Patriots. (Gene, Meme, and Scene)
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Sep 6, 2015 18:07
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I'm disappointed in everyone who couldn't appreciate this story. Show up to Kojima's house and chop off your pinkie finger and give it to him for your impertinence, then never call yourself a Metal Gear Solid fan again.
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Sep 6, 2015 18:09
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Buschmaki posted:THE PLOT DOESN'T MATTER TO A STORY!!! This game perfectly ties together Gene, Scene, and Meme, the primary themes of the previous metal gear games, and the ending is insanely important for that purpose. Venom Snake is made into Big Boss by experiencing all of his memories and previous missions (Scene), to carry out his will and expand his legend and philosophy (Meme). All of this sets up Solid Snakes confrontation with Venom, and Big Boss in Outer Heaven and Zanzibarland, his victory shows that Big Boss' son surpasses his father, and that he is ready to inherit the Boss' will (Gene). After surpassing his father's phantom, and then his father, Solid Snake is the sole inheritor of The Boss' will and unites the world by destroying the Patriots. (Gene, Meme, and Scene)
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Sep 6, 2015 18:13
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Bubba Smith posted:The first half of this is fine and I can agree on, but this part Sorry I like to play complete games at full price and not half-finished ones. The second halves of games being bad can absolutely ruin your enjoyment of the game and it ruined my enjoyment of this game quite a bit. It's not like it's an uncommon occurrence, just look at how many people felt Mass Effect 3 turned to poo poo right after Rannoch and never recovered. Even though I bought a Nvidia code for around £10 cheaper than retail I still absolutely feel the asking price for this game isn't worth it compared to both what I expected from it and how much enjoyment I got from it. In it's current state, it should have been released cheaper than it is and I think saying that isn't entitled in the slightest. Ground Zeroes had a similar problem, the game was good but the asking price for what you were getting was far, far too high but I'd assumed the profits from Ground Zeroes would go towards making Phantom Pain even better. Evidently that hasn't happened. Plus I really do think the open world structure just didn't work as well as it should have. That 20 hours I spent enjoying the game were also roughly around the amount of time I enjoyed Peace Walker before that game started to wear out its welcome, but that game is at least finished, can be done in bite sized chunks and isn't filled with quite as much busywork as Phantom Pain is, mostly due to navigating back and forth across the world. Drinkfist posted:Its almost as if the game leaves you feeling pain for the giant chunk that must have been taken out of it and didn't get to experience. Kinda like a Phantom Pain. I was actually going to make that pun in an earlier post but yeah. Like I said, it isn't a bad game but even getting the game slightly cheaper, I still feel I overpaid a bit and knowing this is going to be the last game before Metal Gear either gets a reboot, remakes the first two games or becomes a pachinko machine, it absolutely leaves a sour taste in my mouth when all is said and done. "Is this it?" is not a reaction I should be experiencing when the true ending's finished playing. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 18:14
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:source your quotes -From the mind of a true fan of Metal Gear Solid and Hideo Kojima's vision.
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Sep 6, 2015 18:19
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Under the vegetable posted:This game, which is so good the foundation of all my complaints is that I want more of it, is so bad! Here is a multiple page long essay explaining how bad the game is because I want to play so much more of it and it just wasn't enough give me more I deserve it. Why do we game? Just to suffer?
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Sep 6, 2015 18:20
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I guess saying it wasted my time is a bit too harsh. I guess I'm glad I even managed to play it and it didn't get cancelled like Silent Hills did but it's just so disappointing in some ways even outside of the story.
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Sep 6, 2015 18:22
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Under the vegetable posted:U mad? No, this is Patrick.
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Sep 6, 2015 18:33
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I guess saying it wasted my time is a bit too harsh. No poo poo. lol. That's all I was getting at dude. You can argue all day about what was lacking or bad in the game and most of the criticisms would be valid but overall the game is a good addition to the franchise, just with flaws. Definitely worthy of being made & released. Anybody who doesn't like MGS5 would then have to explain why 2, 4, and PW also sucked at which point I would wonder why have they been playing all these games they don't like.
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Sep 6, 2015 18:48
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Beat the game a few hours ago, figured out the twist when I heard that Eli was a 0% match to Venom, other than no ingame conclusion to the Eli storyline I guess the ending was alright? I'm still conflicted on it, especially knowing what ends up happening to Venom. I wish we could use our Avatar face after finding out the truth. My one real major complaint was that even knowing Skullface destroyed Motherbase I still didn't really feel hate against him, not like need for revenge bloodthrist anyways, honestly I hated Huey more and was so glad that he lost his legs
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Sep 6, 2015 18:49
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Bubba Smith posted:No poo poo. lol. That's all I was getting at dude. You can argue all day about what was lacking or bad in the game and most of the criticisms would be valid but overall the game is a good addition to the franchise, just with flaws. Definitely worthy of being made & released. Anybody who doesn't like MGS5 would then have to explain why 2, 4, and PW also sucked at which point I would wonder why have they been playing all these games they don't like. MGS V plays totally differently from every game in the series but Peace Walker and I think the Peace Walker structure worked better in Peace Walker due to how that game was paced. So I think it's equally silly of you to claim that if you didn't like MGS V, you must hate the other games in the series as it was for my overreactions.
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Sep 6, 2015 18:50
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Ekusukariba posted:Beat the game a few hours ago, figured out the twist when I heard that Eli was a 0% match to Venom, other than no ingame conclusion to the Eli storyline I guess the ending was alright? I'm still conflicted on it, especially knowing what ends up happening to Venom. I wish we could use our Avatar face after finding out the truth. My one real major complaint was that even knowing Skullface destroyed Motherbase I still didn't really feel hate against him, not like need for revenge bloodthrist anyways, honestly I hated Huey more and was so glad that he lost his legs You can use your avatar face, its listed as a different character rather than a different head (I'm guessing so we can use the bandana and whatever other head options are in the game).
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Sep 6, 2015 18:51
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lovely Wizard posted:You can use your avatar face, its listed as a different character rather than a different head (I'm guessing so we can use the bandana and whatever other head options are in the game). Seriously? poo poo that's awesome, thanks for letting me know because I definitely wouldn't have noticed for a long time
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Sep 6, 2015 18:52
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Mantis is a really lovely plot device that doesn't seem to have any motivations or agency of his own except to show up and progress the story for other characters. That is my criticism with this game, the gameplay is fun and the story is as expected, kojima-stupid
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Sep 6, 2015 18:56
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Ekusukariba posted:Seriously? poo poo that's awesome, thanks for letting me know because I definitely wouldn't have noticed for a long time No problem. Also on the topic of head stuff, anyone know if there's anything besides bandana and infinity bandana (well, and balaclavas for our non-snake people)?
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Sep 6, 2015 18:56
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Blister posted:Mantis is a really lovely plot device that doesn't seem to have any motivations or agency of his own except to show up and progress the story for other characters. I don't get how Mantis actually comes across as more sane when he's an adult. Or how he became less powerful with age. His role just seems to be a vector for the anger Volgin and later, Eli feel and make both of them more powerful as a result. But I'm not sure why he's even in the game besides fanservice, another character could do his role just as well even without shoehorning Mantis to have more powers than he originally had shown.
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Sep 6, 2015 19:01
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This MGS has the best gameplay, just the best. The buddies are all fun as hell, the infiltration is fun as gently caress, even managing the base is still neat, and I thought it would be pretty tedious. That said, the story is awful. It does feel like a lot of stuff got cut, and some characters (mainly poor Eli) gets really, really terrible writing and characterization. Like that guy pointed out, anybody can tell that Eli has a loving attitude problem. You'd think you'd figure this out when he ambushes you in your own base. Instead you just beat him mercilessly and then ignore him, which is basically every interaction with Eli. I understand the desire to communicate the plot more in cassette tapes, but Eli was a character that deserved a little screen time. It also really doesn't make a ton of sense that he would idolize Outer Heaven or Big Boss' legacy given that he absolutely despised the man. Actually, in the cut content he expresses a desire to surpass and destroy his father, but that poo poo got cut so we end up with an Eli that's a dick for no reason who then steals metal gear in a plot point that will never be resolved. The body double twist is a huge, dumb, retcon for no real reason. The more I think about it the more I don't really care for it. Big Boss' newfound laconic attitude is kind of neat if it's actually a change in his characterization, but it's not, we're actually playing as a different character. Big Boss is still exactly as cool as you think he is, and when you finally earn the epilogue you will learn that he spent the entire time in the game that you wanted to play. Venom feels like he's not Big Boss, despite what the man himself is. It seems like he genuinely feels attachment or possibly even romantic sentiment towards quiet, and when ocelot has your dude shock her so hard her feet tap against the floor venom just kinda stands there, seemingly afraid to override his own men. He's ostensibly the commander of Diamond Dogs, but in reality they just promoted some dude based on combat ability and he's not super good at leading. Like I said, the gameplay to this game is amazing, I'm starting my second play through because I finished Quiet's storyline and I want her back. The story is really not great though, and that's a shame.
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Sep 6, 2015 19:24
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Phantom. Cigar. It suddenly makes sense! Also totally dug the swap from being the one hiding from murderous soldiers executing everyone at the start, to doing the exact same thing to your own men. I felt like a monster.
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Sep 6, 2015 19:25
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I've concerns regarding the lack of Hot Coldman
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Sep 6, 2015 19:32
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Chippita posted:Phantom. Cigar. It suddenly makes sense! The ones in the basement who salute you as you do it are particularly heart wrenching.
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Sep 6, 2015 19:37
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Full Battle Rattle posted:The ones in the basement who salute you as you do it are particularly heart wrenching. I figured they'd stop after I shot the first one. They held their stance. 
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Sep 6, 2015 19:41
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I can't be the only one who shot the first researcher right after being told to put the infected out of their misery. MISSION FAILED 
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Sep 6, 2015 19:44
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repiv posted:I can't be the only one who shot the first researcher right after being told to put the infected out of their misery. You mean the one coughing up loving blood after they say "We can't let anyone infected leave!"? Yeah I shot her in the face. Then had to do it again anyway!
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Sep 6, 2015 19:45
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Mr. Fortitude posted:MGS V plays totally differently from every game in the series but Peace Walker and I think the Peace Walker structure worked better in Peace Walker due to how that game was paced. So I think it's equally silly of you to claim that if you didn't like MGS V, you must hate the other games in the series as it was for my overreactions. But this game doesn't really play a bit like peace walker and what it shares is really the campaign structure and fultoning every bastard. The sneaking is a mishmash of past MGS and other games and it's own stuff and works really really well. I thought I'd be bothered with the amount of side stuff to do, but so far, given the flatness of the story so far, I'm entirely happy with the way the game sits with the peace walker style structure. It just needs to let me skip the drat helicopter animations, jesus christ.
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Sep 6, 2015 19:51
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repiv posted:I can't be the only one who shot the first researcher right after being told to put the infected out of their misery. Yea I shot some guy after Miller or Code Talker or whoever it was suggested that it was what I had to do.
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Sep 6, 2015 19:57
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ShineDog posted:But this game doesn't really play a bit like peace walker and what it shares is really the campaign structure and fultoning every bastard. The sneaking is a mishmash of past MGS and other games and it's own stuff and works really really well. I thought I'd be bothered with the amount of side stuff to do, but so far, given the flatness of the story so far, I'm entirely happy with the way the game sits with the peace walker style structure. You can use "head back to the ACC" after a side-op to immediately return to the chopper after a checkpoint (so basically after every single side-op). You can also use invoices and cardboard boxes to fast travel to any named camp / outpost in the game. The helicopter scenes are partly used to disguise the loading times when you are entering a new area. Yeah they are kind of annoying to watch for the millionth time, but it's better than just looking at a loading screen imo.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:01
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:You can use "head back to the ACC" after a side-op to immediately return to the chopper after a checkpoint (so basically after every single side-op). You can also use invoices and cardboard boxes to fast travel to any named camp / outpost in the game. Tell that to my SSD. I'd happily wait a whole 5 seconds longer if it meant I didn't have to watch boss open the door every time.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:04
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Here's how I've seen people try to rationalize MG1 with the ending of TPP: So at the end of TPP there's two Big Bosses: the real one, who becomes the leader of Foxhound, and Venom, who creates Outer Heaven. Venom starts building Metal Gear in Outer Heaven; this is part of Big Boss' plan. The US learns of this and decides to task Foxhound with stopping them. Gray Fox gets captured and Big Boss then sends in green-as-gooseshit rookie Solid, who he probably knows is his other clone son. He first helps him along with his mission to deter the US from taking more drastic measures, such as bombing the entire location to smithereens, and buying Venom more time to finish Metal Gear. He starts losing his cool when it looks like Solid might actually succeed and gives him false info in hopes of him failing, even at one point straight up telling him to abort the mission. At the end of MG 1 Venom claims to be the real Big Boss to keep the phantom switcheroo a secret, gets killed, and the real Big Boss goes into hiding and later creates Zanzibar Land. MG 2 then of course is the story of Miller finally getting his revenge on Big Boss with the aid of Boss' own clone.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:14
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Chippita posted:Tell that to my SSD. I'd happily wait a whole 5 seconds longer if it meant I didn't have to watch boss open the door every time. I dunno, I like that part because I actually use the minigun often enough when I'm dropping into side-ops. I'm not sure how else they would do it without it looking really jarring. Getting an aerial view of the area is pretty helpful for plotting out a rough route and seeing if there is anything major to look out for, too.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:14
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Wait a minute. Why is Miller angry at Big Boss after the ending? Because he didn't tell him about his body double?
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Sep 6, 2015 20:18
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Gortarius posted:Wait a minute. I guess if he knew Big Boss woke up and came to him when he woke up instead of the weird Body Double plan, he'd still have his arm/leg/eyesight.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:23
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lovely Wizard posted:I guess if he knew Big Boss woke up and came to him when he woke up instead of the weird Body Double plan, he'd still have his arm/leg/eyesight. Basically he was exploited for his anger and drive and leadership, which Big Boss used to form Outer Heaven around his own image in Venom. Miller built MSF and DD but Big Boss is who the soldiers idolize, so Big Boss can take it away from him. That's why he decides to shut his mouth and train Solid to surpass the original, Big Boss still considers him a friend and doesn't realize how pissed he is.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:27
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Miller is pissed because Big Boss basically threw him and his dream under the bus. All along Miller has been working with BB to create his soldier's nation without borders, and at the end Big Boss basically says "gently caress you, Venom is my second-in-command now and he's going to run Outer Heaven instead of you while I go do my own thing." The creation of a second Big Boss basically means Miller has become redundant, which is why he is a "Visionary Robbed of His Future." He is probably also party angry that Big Boss is just doing exactly what they were fighting against by using a fellow soldier as a tool to further his own ends. There is a brief audioplay in the Japanese version of GZ that goes over how Miller and BB meet, and how the idea for Outer Heaven is kind of more Miller's plan originally than Big Boss'. BB wanted a haven for soldiers where governments couldn't use them as tools, but the concept of a private army for hire and all of the logistics behind it are Miller's. This got cut from the US GZ, probably because of the change in VAs (it would be like an extra hour of Kiefer reading lines), but it makes it a lot more clear why Miller would be upset.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:29
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Miller is pissed because Big Boss basically threw him and his dream under the bus. All along Miller has been working with BB to create his soldier's nation without borders, and at the end Big Boss basically says "gently caress you, Venom is my second-in-command now and he's going to run Outer Heaven instead of you while I go do my own thing." The creation of a second Big Boss basically means Miller has become redundant, which is why he is a "Visionary Robbed of His Future." all of that stuff is in peace walker too.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:35
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