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In It For The Tank posted:I miss Quiet so goddamn much whenever a loving gunship shows up. No more grenade ricochet is turning each encounter into a slog. Gunships have ridiculously high health to the point where it takes twelve (TWELVE!) shots from my partially upgraded Killer Bee to take one down, which I don't make a habit if carrying around because of the cost and because it negatively impacts your stealth. Really I wish there was some kind of way to reset the soldiers down to the base levels. Even doing the storage shed things there's still a zillion dudes in riot suits everywhere. And helmets, oh my god helmets. When every little outpost is packed with super difficult dudes it starts to impact how fun the game is, imo.
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Sep 7, 2015 18:19
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Drinkfist posted:Total Agree. gently caress Hideo's poo poo writing here. I am happy they fired his rear end now. You're an idiot.
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Sep 7, 2015 18:26
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Mediocrity Goggles posted:Alright, so how in the hell can I actually unlock/move past mission 43 while still keeping Quiet? I've heard some claims that people have managed to get past 43 with her still intact with the butterfly emblem thing and beat the whole game except for mission 45. I just kept doing random sideops while having the butterfly emblem on and not having quiet at max (I know you only need one, but I didn't want to risk it) and eventually I got the final story mission.
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Sep 7, 2015 18:26
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Drinkfist posted:Total Agree. gently caress Hideo's poo poo writing here. I am happy they fired his rear end now. This man does not represent me. I never meant my analogy to be taken this way
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Sep 7, 2015 18:31
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Ok another thing, someone explain the whole deal with Cipher/Zero. I thought I had it figured out but now I haven't got a clue. This is where I am: - Zero creates Cipher after Operation Snake Eater with Big Boss, Ocelot, Eva, Paramedic and Sigint. - They have their big falling out after Les Enfants Terribles so Big Boss, Eva, and Ocelot leave. - Cipher (under Zero) is trying to murder the gently caress out of Big Boss (Peace Walker). - Skull Face is also in Cipher as Zero's lieutenant running XOF, but he ends up breaking off and neutralising Zero before coming after Big Boss (cue GZ/TPP). I'm assuming his XOF branch of cipher is semi-independent and is responsible for most of the really dark poo poo we see from the organisation? - Zero actually still respects the hell out of Big Boss and ensures he is hidden while in a coma, one of his last actions before he succumbs to the parasites Skull Face infected him with and loses his mind. I don't get this, because I thought he wanted Big Boss dead? - Prior to losing his mind Zero handed the control of Cipher over to Sigint/his AIs setting the stage for MGS1/2/4. Cool I get this. - So post GZ, Cipher has become two associated but semi independent factions - XOF and the Patriots. XOF is more or less destroyed by the events of TPP. - Cipher itself/the Patriots (the AIs) now represent the whole organisation, and they want Big Boss dead too? Basically I just don't understand Zero. I think Kojima is trying to paint him as a tragic figure who lost control of the thing he created very early on yet continued to be the demonised figurehead? He seems to fluctuate between comic book evil and actually just nice old Major Tom depending on gently caress knows. e: I just watched the Episode 51 video. That seems really loving cool and exactly how I would have liked to see the game wrap up Mantis/Liquid. Why in the everlasting gently caress did it get cut. That's actually so annoying. There was easily enough content to make a solid Chapter 2, and it looks like a lot of the work necessary to do so had already been done when it was cut out. WHY KOJIMA WHY? (I actually think this may have something to do with Konami tbh). e2: And the Venom monologue is excellent too, why was that even cut? It's less than a minute and it's a really nice thing to just have there that would have taken away gently caress all from the game. Also does Venom know he is not Big Boss from the start or does he only learn that at the end like the player? ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Sep 7, 2015 |
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Sep 7, 2015 18:41
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Zero set out to create a self-perpetuating New World Order with B.B. as his partner, but when B.B. said "gently caress this" and walked he went a little loopy and instigated more militant/black ops operations in an attempt to coerce or threaten B.B. into joining him anyway. That fell through, but the violence Zero had started kept going anyway, with Skull Face and the XOF (and later the Patriots themselves) continuing the organization down the darker route while Zero himself tried vainly to correct his mistake. His last act of defiance/remorse was bankrolling Diamond Dogs and ensuring B.B.'s safety before being consumed by the very system he'd helped to implement. Basically Zero's a guy who started with good intentions that quickly grew corrupt, and the people/AI's underneath him decided to follow the corrupt intentions instead of the original ones. Zero realized too late he'd gone too far. Skull Face and the Patriots believed he didn't go far enough.
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Sep 7, 2015 18:49
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Oxxidation posted:Zero set out to create a self-perpetuating New World Order with B.B. as his partner, but when B.B. said "gently caress this" and walked he went a little loopy and instigated more militant/black ops operations in an attempt to coerce or threaten B.B. into joining him anyway. That fell through, but the violence Zero had started kept going anyway, with Skull Face and the XOF (and later the Patriots themselves) continuing the organization down the darker route while Zero himself tried vainly to correct his mistake. His last act of defiance/remorse was bankrolling Diamond Dogs and ensuring B.B.'s safety before being consumed by the very system he'd helped to implement. That's actually a nice succinct answer cheers.
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Sep 7, 2015 18:51
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ThomasPaine posted:e: I just watched the Episode 51 video. That seems really loving cool and exactly how I would have liked to see the game wrap up Mantis/Liquid. Why in the everlasting gently caress did it get cut. That's actually so annoying. I thought Episode 51 was kinda hokey and dumb because Eli's role in the story was hokey and dumb. Chapter 1 was a plot with a defined beginning, middle, and end. It should have been the whole game. Chapter 2 is just fanservice that's almost all dumb(though Big Boss shooting the infected guys was a cool scene- that should've been the resolution for the disease in ch1. Yes, it would not have linked up to MG1 so much and it would not have been the definitive bridge story, but this really wasn't, either. I don't think a bridge was needed. The clone twist worked fine for me, but I feel like most everything that happened in Ch2 didn't work and it wouldn't have been fixed in a year because the entire concept was flawed. Every time Kojima tries to make the 'definitive' game it sucks(MGS4, now MGS5), at least plot-wise. The worst aspects of how unfinished the game is is Chapter 2's gameplay. I wanted to see more interesting missions using the harder enemies but instead you got wonderful "total stealth" missions and extreme boss battles which just ended up taking forever. Subsistence was awesome but they used it for two missions, and a bit of the bite of subsistence is gone when enemies start carrying rocket launchers.
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Sep 7, 2015 18:54
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lovely Wizard posted:I just kept doing random sideops while having the butterfly emblem on and not having quiet at max (I know you only need one, but I didn't want to risk it) and eventually I got the final story mission. I do have her at max, though. You think I should fire a few shots at her to bring it down to move things along? I also need to know the criteria for getting Huey kicked out as well.
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Sep 7, 2015 18:54
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So that scene in the beginning in Outer Heaven is Venom getting ready to be killed by Solid Snake, right?
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Sep 7, 2015 19:01
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Full Battle Rattle posted:So that scene in the beginning in Outer Heaven is Venom getting ready to be killed by Solid Snake, right? Yup, in the end Venom Snake had the hardest life of all
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Sep 7, 2015 19:11
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So when exactly does Miller find out about Venom? The chronology wasn't clear to me during the cutscenes.
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Sep 7, 2015 19:14
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Minorkos posted:MGS5 is much like eating an excellent subway sandwich that has a small bit of poop at the very end Dude, at worst it's an undercooked chicken patty.
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Sep 7, 2015 19:15
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UP AND ADAM posted:So when exactly does Miller find out about Venom? The chronology wasn't clear to me during the cutscenes. probaly near the end.
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Sep 7, 2015 19:17
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Drinkfist posted:After all the work you guys put in being super badass Venom Snake here is your final fate. Come on man, don't post the lovely NES version of that fight. The one where Venom Snake is called Vernon CaTaffy because for some reason NES Metal Gear 1 and Snake's Revenge tried to be awfully political and you never actually fight Metal Gear, just a super computer. Post the much better MSX version of the fight.
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Sep 7, 2015 19:32
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In It For The Tank posted:I miss Quiet so goddamn much whenever a loving gunship shows up. No more grenade ricochet is turning each encounter into a slog. Gunships have ridiculously high health to the point where it takes twelve (TWELVE!) shots from my partially upgraded Killer Bee to take one down, which I don't make a habit if carrying around because of the cost and because it negatively impacts your stealth.  How the hell you are people at the end of the game without upgrading your rocket launchers / trying new ones? Did you just rush through the story without ever dipping into the entire development aspect of the game?For one thing the Honey Bee is pretty trash, it homes but its damage and penetration are way, way lower than the other launchers. I have no idea how you could be using 12 rockets to take down a gunship even with a level 1 launcher, though. I've never needed more than 2 rockets from anything. If you look in the tech tree there is a launcher that is literally better than the Honey Bee in every way, and it still homes in (in fact it can home in on up to 5 enemies at once!). It kills gunships in 1 hit. You can get it like immediately after Chapter 1, I think.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:14
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Seriously, I still use the level 1 first launcher you can research. Drops gunships in 2 shots. Just gotta learn to lead your shots. I also love the rubber bullet SMG even if it is absolute garbage. The suppressor breaks in less shots than it takes to drop someone without headshots 
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Sep 7, 2015 20:27
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:
Never needed launchers until endgame because they don't fit my playstyle. which is primarily non-lethal. For all the side ops, I either stole the tanks and armoured vehicles or used C4. For Sahelanthropus, I used the killer bee in moderation and the nearby tanks and armoured vehicles to destroy it without much difficulty. It's only choppers that really screwed me up because there's no way to take them down but to destroy them (that I know of, I don't think you can kill the pilot). However, as I said, Quiet's grenade ricochet saw me through most encounters but now she's gone and some of the later side ops introduce choppers that are ungodly powerful (specifically, 108 was the one that took twelve missiles and a fair share of spray from my assault rifle). I'll keep an eye for the other launcher though. I think I'm going to need it.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:29
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I've been using a grenade launcher to take down gunships. It's not as easy as to use as a launcher but it allows me to carry a super OP sniper rifle.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:30
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Come on man, don't post the lovely NES version of that fight. The one where Venom Snake is called Vernon CaTaffy because for some reason NES Metal Gear 1 and Snake's Revenge tried to be awfully political and you never actually fight Metal Gear, just a super computer. Post the much better MSX version of the fight. Ok.  He dies in four hits in this one and actually shoots back. Huge improvement.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:32
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Hijo Del Helmsley posted:Seriously, I still use the level 1 first launcher you can research. Drops gunships in 2 shots. Just gotta learn to lead your shots. The riot smg is an amazing weapon. Its my bread and butter gun for every situation. It's great as a stealth weapon if you use red dot for headshots, and its a great nonlethal weapon in direct combat.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:37
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UP AND ADAM posted:Dude, at worst it's an undercooked chicken patty. Think about it. The game is great in every way except it ends really suddenly and the twist is kinda weird and stupid This game was absolutely amazing until I finished and ended up feeling kinda ho-hum about it Here's how it should have gone
there, now it makes mgs3 and peace walker completely pointless instead Minorkos fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Sep 7, 2015 |
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Sep 7, 2015 20:41
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Or just take out all the Venom Snake stuff. You are Big Boss, you were always Big Boss, and Mother Base is actually Outer Heaven.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:49
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Drinkfist posted:Ok. He also tries to take cover and is only damaged by splash damage. Also Solid Snake's just tanking hits like a champ and is nearly dead by the end. So yeah, it is an improvement. He goes out better than Big Boss did, who couldn't even kill an unarmed Solid Snake and was taken down by a can of aerosol and a lighter creating the weakest flamethrower ever at least. Taking 4 rockets to the face is pretty badass in comparison.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:51
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I disagree the venom stuff works because it shows big boss doesn't have a sudden turn to evil. He's already evil and willing to do everything that he said he was fighting against. To me that's the big twist, not that you aren't big boss but that big boss already fell. I think the venom stuff is interesting because it shows that given a chance to wipe the slate clean and escape from everything big boss ends up doing the exact same things all over for revenge on no one.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:55
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randombattle posted:I disagree the venom stuff works because it shows big boss doesn't have a sudden turn to evil. He's already evil and willing to do everything that he said he was fighting against. To me that's the big twist, not that you aren't big boss but that big boss already fell.  I can understand feeling a little cheated that you don't really see how he ended up deciding to do this though.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:01
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Under the vegetable posted:get this: i don't agree with you at all about the tapes and think there's a solid reason for the cutscene action. in the Quiet scene he's not like "whatevs", he seems like he's holding back an impulse because he doesn't trust his own authority. he cares for quiet as a person but he knows ultimately he's meant to fulfill a role he doesn't truly have or understand, so he looks to miller and ocelot for instruction. it's not like he's just chilling and smoking the phantom cigar, he's got body language in the scene. oh my god thank you for you saying this. i hold that the reason people are going "kiefer dont say much!" is because they are too loving used to videogames and anime/cartoon voice actors not an actual screen/theatre actor who uses his full body which was the whole point of getting someone like kiefer instead (and the mediums, video game graphics slowly evolving/devs figuring out how to direct), then again it doesn't really help matters either that the rest of the cast are from the top voice actors only club so you have that weird clash in styles. but yeah, kiefer loving works.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:14
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Vikar Jerome posted:oh my god thank you for you saying this. i hold that the reason people are going "kiefer dont say much!" is because they are too loving used to videogames and anime/cartoon voice actors not an actual screen/theatre actor who uses his full body which was the whole point of getting someone like kiefer instead (and the mediums, video game graphics slowly evolving/devs figuring out how to direct), then again it doesn't really help matters either that the rest of the cast are from the top voice actors only club so you have that weird clash in styles. but yeah, kiefer loving works. Is this trolling? I genuinely can't tell if you're trolling.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:20
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Hijo Del Helmsley posted:Is this trolling? I genuinely can't tell if you're trolling. no.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:23
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I still am curious about this "Egg" Strangelove put in the AI she developed for Zero that you could use to control the world, was this the predecessor to Foxalive? or the quirk Ocelot exploited in MGS4 of repeating patterns? It's a dumb minor thing but it seemed to deliberate to nto be a callback.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:31
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MGS5 is a really good game that is also very disappointing. Odd. I wish it would get the same kind of support and additional content that is planned for the Witcher 3. Meh.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:33
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MGSV's cutscenes are way better than previous games in the series because they're incredibly well directed, well acted and well paced. Even Snake Eater was painfully boring at points, like with the talk between LBJ and Kruschev.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:34
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The Venom twist works and is thematically resonant w/r/t the entire rest of the series while closing one of the biggest plot holes that people haven't shut the gently caress up about for like two decades and completely getting rid of it would have made for an extremely bland story. Like I get it, I wanted as much as anyone to get the fan-servicey bits where you go recruit all the young members of Foxhound and stuff. I wanted to see Decoy Octopus and Raven and Gray Fox and Operation Intrude in all of the Fox Engine's glory. The cut Mission 51 would have been great. It all would have been rad, and for all we know some or all of that may have originally been planned. What Kojima did instead was tell a new story that still managed to dovetail well enough into MG1 / 2. It isn't perfect, but it answered the only real major question about those games. The rest we know enough about to make reasonable inferences as to what happened. Kojima is obviously super tired of trying to make everything fit into the "canon" of some games he made 20 years ago without ever intended it to become this bloated, nitpicky mythology. You can blatantly see his frustration with that ever since MGS2. I'm not going to sit around bitching that I didn't get exactly the story I was expecting when the story I got was still compelling (especially by video game standards) and when the gameplay is this drat good.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:35
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:The Venom twist works and is thematically resonant w/r/t the entire rest of the series while closing one of the biggest plot holes that people haven't shut the gently caress up about for like two decades and completely getting rid of it would have made for an extremely bland story. Thanks for saying that. A part of me was somewhat disappointed that TPP didn't have all the fan service pandering to crazy fans like me but at the same time, TPP was an absolutely brilliant story in it's own right and I'd rather see Kojima tell a story that he wants to tell rather than what his fans want to see.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:38
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Drinkfist posted:Ok. I mean if you theoretically still just played as BB, then the character you played the entire game gets basically killed by a lighter and aerosol can. No matter how this was going to go BB or his phantom was destined to have a pretty shameful end .
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Sep 7, 2015 21:43
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...what plot hole? Metal Gear 2 itself answered how Big Boss survived the events of Outer Heaven, in that he was a barely alive potato that was fitted with prosthetics and bionic parts from Madnar. Kind of implausible, yes but not a plot hole, especially since the series has crazier stuff than Big Boss surviving Outer Heaven. While I like the twist, it just ends up muddying things in the greater scheme of things. Who was the one giving Snake his orders during Metal Gear 1? The real Big Boss? Venom? Who was the one leading him into traps? Was Big Boss intentionally sending Solid Snake to fail to cover for Venom? In which case why did he send Gray Fox? If he sent him in to eliminate Venom instead because he'd gone out of control then why is he trying to kill Solid Snake by leading him into traps if it is him, or in Zanzibar years later? If the twist was the same, but the blurb about Venom being the Big Boss being killed at Outer Heaven was removed I'd be 100% happier with it.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:43
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Metal Gear 1 and 2 were already nonsense that didn't easily fit into the story as established in the Metal Gear Solid games. So this small wrinkle to it barely even changes anything for me, it doesn't make any sense but it pretty much didn't before either.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:49
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The first Metal Gear Game I ever played, it felt so wrong and disappointing at the end. The game could have been incredible with with how it started out and the possibilities the engine has ))))= (I cant remember any game were I went from excitement and happiness to cursing the developers multiple times and in a frequency of hours) DasKuend fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Sep 7, 2015 |
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Sep 7, 2015 21:51
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The Medic aka Venom "Punished" Snake aka Big Boss aka Vernon KaTaffy aka Ayatollah Kockamamie
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Sep 7, 2015 21:51
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Metal Gear 1 and 2 were already nonsense that didn't easily fit into the story as established in the Metal Gear Solid games. So this small wrinkle to it barely even changes anything for me, it doesn't make any sense but it pretty much didn't before either. Not... really? There's nothing in the Solid games that blatantly contradicts anything from the MSX games besides Madnar still being alive. I suppose I'm okay with retconning the MSX games because I don't have any great love for them but I'd want a remake of them to fit in the canon better, but that's not going to happen. I think that's why some people are annoyed, MGS V ends up raising more questions than it answers yet it's going to be the last game by Kojima and probably in the current canon. EDIT: Well I suppose the blurb at the beginning of Metal Gear 2 about how the Soviet Union was still around in 1999 but the US and the Soviets agreed to give up all nuclear weapons so Zanzibar is the only nation with nukes got retconned in Solid 1 but, that's more just because Metal Gear 2 was made when the Soviet Union still existed and had a weird utopian like idea of the future. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Sep 7, 2015 |
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Sep 7, 2015 21:52
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