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So we're up to 757 episodes
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Sep 7, 2015 21:17
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I literally already answered this question for you, it's 126 weeks
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Sep 7, 2015 21:20
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TNG posted:It seems to me that Gundam, UC at least, is one big case of "Does the same thing, expects different results". For a lot of reasons. it's not hard to come up with reasons for it if you take a materialistic view of the uc though though the unrest of the late 0050s had resulted in both most of the eartnoid bourgeoisie reconsidering their colonial immigration plans (save for a few places like shangri la) and the federation granting some colonies limited self government, the eventual loss of both those gains by the spacenoid proletariat was almost certain if political pressure on the federal govenment wasn't maintained by virtue of the fact that the zabi's wealth and status relied entirely on their political positions, they had little to gain and nearly everything to lose if moderates like jimba ral had their way and successfully pushed for rapprochement with the federation simultaneously, the earthnoid bourgeoisie couldn't be secure so long as the sides were in the hands of people whose stated goal was ensuring the sides' freedom from earthnoid rule (even if their right to self governance was limited in the extreme)
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Sep 7, 2015 21:23
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Namtab posted:I literally already answered this question for you, it's 126 weeks that didnt include everything tho
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Sep 7, 2015 21:24
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That Byarlant custom piloted by freaking Manfred von Richthofen wouldn't have stood a chance against this fellow
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Sep 7, 2015 21:27
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Geara type mobile suits are all so darn sexy looking. Zulus and Dogas are pretty.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:32
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Ka0 posted:That Byarlant custom piloted by freaking Manfred von Richthofen wouldn't have stood a chance against this fellow 
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Sep 7, 2015 21:34
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Ernie Muppari posted:it's not hard to come up with reasons for it if you take a materialistic view of the uc though Oh yes, I agree entirely. This cycle of Earth Sphere domination and Spacenoid reactionary aggression extends far beyond Zeon and into the invasions of the Crossbone Vanguard, the Jupiter and Zanscare Empires, and eventually culminates in the destruction of the technological society that birthed all of them. That if one is actually going to be true to Deikun's philosophy, you kind of need to just stop thinking in terms of territorial gains and availability of so called scarce resources. You have fusion technology, some sort of nuclear pulse engine technology with enough Delta-V to get to Jupiter and back in a reasonable time frame, access to the Asteroid Belt, Jupiter itself, and the rings of Saturn, as well as nascent genetic engineering for creation of viable crop and livestock species. You could get a fleet of colonies up to a pretty decent percentage of C with technology available in UC 0079 and set off for wherever, with all the building material and fusion fuel you could ever want from Bussard Ram jets and Asteroid collection, take one with you for gently caress's sake. It's just that there is this pervasive idea within the rhetoric of all of the factions that political hegemony within the Earth Sphere actually matters to people who can escape Earth's pull fairly easily if they wanted to. I'm saying that Gundam, at least UC, is the definition of insanity because the people living there don't seem to ever loving get it, other than Judau and the Turn A Newtypes. Stop listening to the Zabis Side 3, people have been living with military strongmen aristocratic families for hundreds of years, and yet there is an option afforded to you. I think an interesting Gundam show would be a group of colonies attempting to leave the solar system and the Federation analog and the Spacenoid Group they're attempting to break off from trying to stop them.
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Sep 7, 2015 21:42
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boom boom boom posted:that didnt include everything tho that figure you quoted just did. enjoy 2 years and 6 months of gundam
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Sep 7, 2015 22:03
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TNG posted:Oh yes, I agree entirely. This cycle of Earth Sphere domination and Spacenoid reactionary aggression extends far beyond Zeon and into the invasions of the Crossbone Vanguard, the Jupiter and Zanscare Empires, and eventually culminates in the destruction of the technological society that birthed all of them. oh deffo, once the first colonies come online it's only a matter of time before the material conditions most of humanity lives with change enough that it becomes improbable for even the most oppressive government to claim much more than a single colony for anything close to a significant period of time the issue the uc keeps running into is that my previous statement is predicated on the idea that those in power in those regimes still hold with the liberal side of the bourgeois ideology coin which regards the intentional wholesale slaughter of innocents and complete destruction of universally needed infrastructure as an unacceptable price for their continued positions and wealth and privilege, which, as most gundam seems to suggest, is not the case for the majority of the aristocrats of the universal century hence we keep hearing the shattering of glass as the rich and powerful break out the emergency stalhelms and get ready to dole out another round of gigadeath with this perspective in mind, the jupiter empire, with its blatant lies about the sacrifices necessarily made by common people for simple survival, is almost, in a twisted, orwellian sort of way, progressive edit: had casval, and those who followed him, not been quite so thoroughly personally broken, they could've easily taken anaheim's money & materiel, set themselves up as the genuine alternative to earth/spacenoid fascism people thought the aefo/karaba alliance represented, and perhaps used the popular support they'd garner to finally force the federal and lunar plutocrats to ceed even a little ground to the people even once instead the second neo-zeon was just an incredibly costly murder-suicide Ernie Muppari fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 00:06
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There's also something that gets glossed over in a lot of Gundam fiction, and that's the purging of the youth/intellectual class. Like in CCA, Quess' friends probably went to some reeducation camp or were beaten to death in a room, and/or. It's interesting you say that the Feds have this sort of neoliberal monopoly on thought and morality that says, "Well, let's shoot ourselves in the foot repeatedly so we can buy even more shoes". Every character we focus on in Gundam is either a politician, soldier, or a nebulous "civilian", whatever that is. The only exception I can think of off hand is Kai, who's a reporter. I think that a lack of philosophers or political writers is explainable because well, half of humanity is dead so who's got time for that poo poo, and that the dominant opposition school of thought from orthodoxy at the time is a very strained and labored interpretation of Deikun's Earth is Sacred, get off and that The Sides should be independent modes. Really, I think the failing is that 1)Deikun was thinking way too small in what he tried to accomplish when he was alive 2)Most dissatisfaction is youth based and they tend to get loaded into the meat grind/get violently suppressed 3)No one has really come up with something better than "Newtypes, maybe?" God, political discourse in that Universe is dominated by a lot of bitter, jaded, shell shocked soldiers or refugees. Space Noam Chomsky would probably get paid a visit by the Titans or Londo Bell. The Jupiter Empire is hilarious, because man were they terror weapon/doomsday weapon happy. We need nerve gas for your betterment citizen, don't question it!
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Sep 8, 2015 01:06
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TNG posted:The only exception I can think of off hand is Kai, who's a reporter.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:11
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AradoBalanga posted:Don't forget information broker/exposition deliverer and part-time super spy. Oh yes, and he's also a wonderful writer. 
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Sep 8, 2015 01:15
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TNG posted:Oh yes, and he's also a wonderful writer. Still the best thing to come out of Zeta Gundam.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:37
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Ka0 posted:That Byarlant custom piloted by freaking Manfred von Richthofen wouldn't have stood a chance against this fellow Is that a motherfucking Perry the Platypus Zock?
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Sep 8, 2015 01:44
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boom boom boom posted:I was doing the math in the chat thread, this is how far I got You missed all of Gundam 00, oops.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:57
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taichara posted:You missed all of Gundam 00, oops. boom boom boom posted:gundam 00 50
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Sep 8, 2015 01:58
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cut out the lovely ones and that could be a good time
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Sep 8, 2015 02:50
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I'm pretty sure you could turn a Zeon Amphibious suit into god drat anything and make it adorable.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:52
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TheKingofSprings posted:cut out the lovely ones and that could be a good time No, all of it
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Sep 8, 2015 03:00
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TARDISman posted:Is that a motherfucking Perry the Platypus Zock? it's a kappa
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Sep 8, 2015 03:12
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What about the aquatic suits from War in the Pocket?
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Sep 8, 2015 03:38
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I decided to watch a little bit of SEED since it's on GundamInfo's Youtube channel. It's...okay. I skipped the first part past the escape from Heliopolis because it's a rehash of 0079, but with the White Base visiting GLORIOUS NIPPON instead of pissing around near the Battle of Odessa, and went to the team's arrival at JOSH-A. I liked how the JOSH-A visit started off at MSG's Jaubro visit, but then ended up as Zeta's Jaburo invasion. It was a comically evil plot from the EA, but it did work for the most part. Plus, the whole "everyone gets microwaved" part was fun to watch. I'm at the point where the Archangel is going to head off to space, and I'm starting to understand the critcisms leveled at SEED; the Earth Alliance suddenly turned extremely evil, to the point where they have their own "Hail HYDRA"esqe saying, and it's becoming clear that everyone good is going to join up with Kira at some point. I"m just waiting for Athrun's daddy to eventually snap. Even early on, the series felt off. Heliopolis felt like it completely missed the point and drama behind the Side 7 attack. In MSG, Amuro is just some shut-in that's making GBS threads his pants and flipping through the manual, trying to figure out how the gently caress to use the RX-78-2's weapons, while hoping he can figure out how to use the Gundam before the Zakus discover a way to kill him. There was a real sense of tension because of Amuro's complete inexperience with anything to do with mobile suits. In SEED, Kira reprograms an entire OS in seconds and takes on not-Gene far better than Amuro did, which kills off any sort of tension the Strike's first fight would have. The worst thing is about how hilariously overdramatic the whole thing is. Everyone seems to be willing to either cry or drop something dramatically at the drop of a hat, every character seems to be torn-up on some stupid issue, and only a handful of characters seem to be capable of being calm at all. The drama seems ridiculously contrived, from former BFFs now being enemies, to Jesus' resurrection in space when it looked like he was dead as a doornail. The drama is ridiculous, but the show expects you to take it dead seriously. The suit designs are better than i thought. I genuinly like the GINN, Strike Dagger, Strike, Duel, Buster, M1 Astray, and Blitz. The other Gundams still feel like overdesigned messes, but the other ZAFT suits are growing on me. I'm gonig to finish it up just to see how the whole thing pans out. I don't have the patience to watch 50 more episodes of the same poo poo but worse in Destiny, though.
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Sep 8, 2015 03:54
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closeted republican posted:In SEED, Kira reprograms an entire OS in seconds and takes on not-Gene far better than Amuro did, which kills off any sort of tension the Strike's first fight would have. You may want to rewatch the original Gundam episode. Amuro reads the manual and defeats Gene with a dramatic samurai slash. They two are (intentionally) pretty similar scenes, since Amuro's already familiar with the Gundam somewhat since his Dad was building it and Kira's familiar with the OS since his teacher was working on it. The original Gundam is a better scene but it isn't really that different.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:02
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ImpAtom posted:You may want to rewatch the original Gundam episode. Amuro reads the manual and defeats Gene with a dramatic samurai slash. They two are (intentionally) pretty similar scenes, since Amuro's already familiar with the Gundam somewhat since his Dad was building it and Kira's familiar with the OS since his teacher was working on it. The original Gundam is a better scene but it isn't really that different. Yeah, SEED's not exactly great storywriting but you do get a scene or two of the lab where he and his friends were clearly working on the OS for it indirectly.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:05
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One of SEED's biggest selling points was definitely the drama, specifically the interpersonal drama. BFF's being enemies now is a timeless piece of storytelling and SEED plays it for all it is worth. So many flashbacks to Kira and Athrun's first meeting, it's why I doubt I'll ever rewatch the first half of SEED. Bizarrely, most of the SEED praise/hate says that the first half of SEED is better. These people re clearly insane. The second half of SEED might have Lacus revealing herself to be Super Genius but it also had Rau making his move, Azrael, the rather awesome climactic battle that nearly wipes out humanity, and so-on. The first half has...what? The Desert Arc? How thrilling.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:21
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ImpAtom posted:You may want to rewatch the original Gundam episode. Amuro reads the manual and defeats Gene with a dramatic samurai slash. They two are (intentionally) pretty similar scenes, since Amuro's already familiar with the Gundam somewhat since his Dad was building it and Kira's familiar with the OS since his teacher was working on it. The original Gundam is a better scene but it isn't really that different. The Side 7 attack has a good amount of tension that the SEED version lacks. Even though Amuro does cool stuff, you still get the feeling that he's completely playing everything by ear and barely knows what to do, which makes the whole sequence quite tense, while with SEED, Kira feels like he's in complete control as soon as he reprograms the OS.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:22
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NikkolasKing posted:One of SEED's biggest selling points was definitely the drama, specifically the interpersonal drama. BFF's being enemies now is a timeless piece of storytelling and SEED plays it for all it is worth. So many flashbacks to Kira and Athrun's first meeting, it's why I doubt I'll ever rewatch the first half of SEED. To be fair, while the Desert Arc can't match the batshit crazy theatrics that Rau pulls off in the last act of SEED, it still has Waltfeld and the first time something comes close to stonewalling Kira's natural skills.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:42
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closeted republican posted:The Side 7 attack has a good amount of tension that the SEED version lacks. Even though Amuro does cool stuff, you still get the feeling that he's completely playing everything by ear and barely knows what to do, which makes the whole sequence quite tense, while with SEED, Kira feels like he's in complete control as soon as he reprograms the OS. Except for the part where he blew the colony the gently caress up.
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Sep 8, 2015 05:00
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chumbler posted:Except for the part where he blew the colony the gently caress up. That was really more of him being an idiot and thinking that firing a bigass gun would not have any consequences inside a space colony, not "oh god what the gently caress do I do?!!?!?!?".
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Sep 8, 2015 05:08
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closeted republican posted:That was really more of him being an idiot and thinking that firing a bigass gun would not have any consequences inside a space colony, not "oh god what the gently caress do I do?!!?!?!?". Yeah, the Launcher Pack was only slapped on to use the battery and because it was the first one they found. Then Kira had EVERYONE yelling at him not to use the gun moments before pulling the trigger and melting a bigass hole in the floor of the colony.
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Sep 8, 2015 05:13
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I will always defend SEED to some extent. It's legitimately not that bad of a series, which is why Destiny being one of the worst things in the franchise's history is so egregious- if they'd just done Zeta Gundam but NEW like how SEED was MSG but NEW, Destiny could have been alright, but instead they decided to go in a really dumb direction and the quality fell off a drat cliff.
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Sep 8, 2015 05:49
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I've always thought SEED was a pretty good show. A solid second-tier Gundam series for me, right there with 00 S1. I still think Natarle is one of the best females in all of Gundam. *after two attempted murders on an unattended prisoner* Natarle: "Captain...please try to understand, I'm not criticizing you out of any kind of personal dislike. I'm merely trying to point out the vital importance of maintaining some semblance of order and that doesn't change simply because of field promotions or emergency situations. The military must be regulated. It requires both soldiers who follow the orders of their superiors and commanders who can see the larger picture and make the appropriate decisions." Poor lady didn't realize what kind of universe she lived in. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 07:26
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For all of SEED's many, many flaws there are still several Gundam shows I'd put below it. There are at least twice as many I'd put above it though.
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Sep 8, 2015 14:09
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I just find it a really ugly show. The mechanical designs are boxy and plasticky, with lots of extraneous lumps and fins, the character designs are... well, you know, and the palette with all its bright contrasts, faint outlines, and dodgy shading is just not easy on the eyes. Even the pilot suits are ugly - the gently caress is going on with that brick coming out of the forehead?
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Sep 8, 2015 14:16
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I like the boxy robot designs myself of SEED myself (Particularly the Strike), but the Turn A (Moustache and all) is also one of my favorite robot designs ever, and I've seen a lot of people hate that one.
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Sep 8, 2015 14:20
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I think SEED has a mix of designs. Some are quite good and others are loving hideous. It isn't anywhere near the top of my list but it isn't anywhere near the bottom either. I'm not sure what my bottom show would be honestly. Most shows are a mix for me and there's only a few where I'm like "this is 90% sweet robots."
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Sep 8, 2015 16:32
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ImpAtom posted:I think SEED has a mix of designs. Some are quite good and others are loving hideous. It isn't anywhere near the top of my list but it isn't anywhere near the bottom either. Which shows would you say rank as more misses than hits design-wise in your opinion? I've already mentioned why SEED is my least favourite there, but I think AGE takes second place. The Earth suits are painfully bland (with a few exceptions, like anything Woolf pilots), and while the more adventurous Vagan designs allow for more that's either cool or charmingly goofy, they have a shitload of ugly, badly-thought-out misfires weighing them down. Generally, there doesn't seem to be quite the usual level of attention to detail and serious thought put into how they'd work, either - consider Ippei Gyobu's little factoids about Grimoire design, or the concentrated nerdery of the fictional Celestial Being engineering history, and then compare that with the Zedas, which has as its primary weapon a solid sword that plugs into and replaces one of its guns/beam sabre emitters. I mean, what's even the point of that?
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Sep 8, 2015 16:59
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The ubiquitous gigantic backpacks are what turn me off a lot of SEED designs.
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Sep 8, 2015 17:03
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Der Waffle Mous posted:The ubiquitous gigantic backpacks are what turn me off a lot of SEED designs. I thought they were pretty good actually. The only really oversized one was the Aile Pack, and that was justified because most of it was thrusters needed to move a big-rear end robot at high speeds in zero-g. Even then, It's "merely" a set of jump-jets in gravity because 17m robots are surprisingly heavy.
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Sep 8, 2015 17:17
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