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Grizzled Patriarch posted:As an aside, I really like the open world, but in my dream version of the game, there would be side-ops that take you to a few smaller, sub-GZ-sized for a couple fan service setpiece bits. The horror elements in TPP made me wish we got to walk into Mantis' village as he was burning it all down or something. Personally I would've liked more Mission 22s- the Mother Base environment as a sneaking environment was great and its verticality is a nice change from the other locales, but I think Kojima just thought FOBs would be enough after 22.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:51
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Panzeh posted:Yeah, that's their explanation but it's hard to think of him doing anything other than being Kojima's giant hand making sure the plot happens. There are a lot of negative emotions going around TPP. Why Skullface in particular? I mean, Miller is loving pissed and unhinged. I think it is just supposed to be that Skullface and Eli are just more hate-filled. Like deep down Miller's still an alright dude or something. But yeah, he pretty much is just a device to move the story the way it needs to. The.only time he's like an actual character is basically mission 51.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:56
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Modest Mao posted:I think everyone agrees that up until Portable ops, the games were good at building a world and the writing was coherent at least. Portable Ops isn't nearly as bad as people say either. I mean, it is a little clunky to play compared to the likes of Peace Walker, but Peace Walker absolutely wouldn't exist if Portable Ops didn't exist. Which is why I find Kojima's ego of "Only games I've been involved in writing are canon" to be irritating even before MGS V hit. Even discounting Portable Ops, that'd also mean Rising wasn't canon under his way, yet Rising actually bothers to have some ties to the earlier Metal Gear games like what I've mentioned about OILIX. Some of the best writing in the series never came from him, but from Tomokazu Fukishima, who was heavily involved in the writing of MGS 1, 2 and 3 as well as wrote Ghost Babel entirely by himself. Then he just kind of disappeared off the face of the earth, probably killed by Konami's Yakuza or something. Really, I want more Metal Gear but I'm curious more than ever to see what a Metal Gear game would be like without Kojima's involvement that wasn't a side story. The adherence some fans have to Kojima having to be involved in the game on every level or the game doesn't count is bizarre, especially when the man's stated several times he'd rather not work on the series again but somehow feels only games he makes really count.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:58
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Part of it is just that sort of power creep stuff that always happens with prequels (look at the Star Wars EU for some hilarious examples of this). A huge, vocal block of fans are always going to want bigger and better spectacles, which is why you get super-powered Mantis and a Metal Gear that is miles ahead of anything in even MGS4. There's enough leeway to explain parts of it away if you really can't get over it, though. I dunno, nearly total immunity to bullets/weapons via teleportation and the ability to move poo poo the size of metal gear sahelanthropus around seems like it'd be useful even if people had anti-psychic implants and poo poo.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:59
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Well there's an argument that if this child is mantis as it is implied he would change over time, remember the big shpiel about the EM field from our brains and how children didn't have the insulation on their connections on the brain. Wouldn't that feasibly affect mantis and weaken his powers over time, as he can't tap into someone else s rage or become their facilitator?
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Sep 8, 2015 02:04
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lovely Wizard posted:I dunno, nearly total immunity to bullets/weapons via teleportation and the ability to move poo poo the size of metal gear sahelanthropus around seems like it'd be useful even if people had anti-psychic implants and poo poo. I don't think he is ever moving the Metal Gear himself. It's that the hate Eli / Skullface have is strong enough to channel through Mantis and amplify his abilities. He's basically like a psychic magnifying glass for negative emotions. I imagine the teleporting thing is exactly what the implants / gene therapy drugs help with, since that's basically (in the context of the plot) how you beat him in MGS1 and MGS4. If he can't read your mind, he doesn't know where you're going to shoot.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:05
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It's probably some anime stuff like Mantis' powers peaked when he was a child. By the time you fight him in MGS he's a washed up joke that can only do parlor tricks.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:05
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Mantis seems to have less control over his powers as a child and even with the gas mask, has trouble filtering out people's emotions and thoughts. So have him near a still alive but very pissed off Volgin followed by befriending a very pissed off and self-loathing Eli and you get what you see in TPP. Though it kind of retcons his backstory of how he burned down his village, became a psychic detective and then went crazier because he delved too far into a serial killers mind.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:10
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Mantis does everything in MGS1 that he does in TPP though. He teleports around, throws everything in the room at you, and dodges bullets. It's not like flaming whales are great weapons inside small offices.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:14
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randombattle posted:Mantis does everything in MGS1 that he does in TPP though. He teleports around, throws everything in the room at you, and dodges bullets. It's not like flaming whales are great weapons inside small offices. He kind of dodges bullets just by the bullets not hitting him. In MGS 1 he had to teleport away. More than anything he just seems more sane as an adult and he's still batshit either way and I'm wondering what caused him to calm down a bit.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:19
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Mr. Fortitude posted:He kind of dodges bullets just by the bullets not hitting him. In MGS 1 he had to teleport away. More than anything he just seems more sane as an adult and he's still batshit either way and I'm wondering what caused him to calm down a bit. Children are psychopaths. He probably just grew up and realized he's basically spent his whole life killing people / facilitating the killing of people. He seemed genuinely pretty depressed about how his life turned out in MGS1.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:20
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Children are psychopaths. He probably just grew up and realized he's basically spent his whole life killing people / facilitating the killing of people. He seemed genuinely pretty depressed about how his life turned out in MGS1. Only as he was dying. Then he became an rear end in a top hat again in death by possessing Screaming Mantis and by extension, the rest of the B&B Unit in MGS 4 and it was a mixture of The Sorrow's ghost and Kojima's voice that finally stopped him for good.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:28
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Only as he was dying. Then he became an rear end in a top hat again in death by possessing Screaming Mantis and by extension, the rest of the B&B Unit in MGS 4 and it was a mixture of The Sorrow's ghost and Kojima's voice that finally stopped him for good. I mean, he sounded pretty remorseful about burning down his village and killing everyone, and basically didn't even mean to do it. He got overwhelmed out of fear of getting murdered by his own father. Mantis is definitely not a good guy, but they try to make him pitiable, at least. He's basically psychic Darth Vader.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:33
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Children are psychopaths. He probably just grew up and realized he's basically spent his whole life killing people / facilitating the killing of people. He seemed genuinely pretty depressed about how his life turned out in MGS1. Foxhound in mgs1's whole deal was that they were sick of being someone else's tools on the battlefield. Mantis fits right in with being fed up of being used by everyone so it makes sense he'd stick by Liquid. The episode 51 cutscene made it look like mantis was acting more on his own there too.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:36
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shoulda just had kiddy sniper wolf and vulcan raven show up and we could have had foxhound babies child decoy octopus is actually still in the game
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Sep 8, 2015 02:41
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randombattle posted:Foxhound in mgs1's whole deal was that they were sick of being someone else's tools on the battlefield. Mantis fits right in with being fed up of being used by everyone so it makes sense he'd stick by Liquid. Yeah, I like that Episode 51 kind of develops an affinity between them. Having Liquid and Mantis be childhood friends is pretty  edit: ^- I was legitimately surprised Sniper Wolf didn't make it in the game, since BB specificially rescued her in Afghanistan. When I first saw the Elegia trailer I thought that scene with Paz was going to be a trick and she was actually going to be Wolf somehow.
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Sep 8, 2015 02:42
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You're thinking of the game where you play as Big Boss instead of his phantom doppleganger who did absolutely nothing wrong literally the whole game. Unfortunately that would be staring Big Boss as he fights in various conflicts around the world recruiting people to his version of Outer Heaven aka Zanzibar all while wearing a cool jacket and riding a motorcycle. Did Venom Snake do anything evil besides letting an actual murderer (Huey) walk free? I mean poo poo, he only killed his motherbase staff because they had a mega virus that threatened to destroy literally everywhere. No child soldiers (turns out they want to give them some basic skills for jobs instead of deploying them to the highest bidder in armed conflicts), no really evil acts (other than demon point stuff, which is sort of counteracted by recruiting your former enemies into your army and rescuing prisoners/animals and stuff), and he didn't really 'become' Skullface in any way in pursuit of revenge like that final trailer implied either. Hell, that hallucination of Skull Face went nowhere as well as the '1984' style Big Brother Miller going paranoid stuff which never really went past those big boss posters. Venom Snake is still a pretty good person by the end of the story, so we don't even see the Not-Big Boss go anywhere near evil. Shitty Wizard fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 03:01
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Yeah, I like that Episode 51 kind of develops an affinity between them. Having Liquid and Mantis be childhood friends is pretty Nah, that story would be too cool. Much like the real founding of outer heaven, which we are absolutely not allowed to see in 3D, ever. MGS6, starring venom snake, will be about rebuilding diamond dogs into platinum pups, the really for real mercenary group that will be directly succeeded by Outer Heaven just like the Portable Ops, MSF, and now Diamond Dogs. Here's a pretty good line from the RockPaperShotgun article: quote:Such player-driven drama, comedy, and action eclipses anything in the disappointing scripted narrative. The Phantom Pain is one of the worst Metal Gear stories ever told. It functions neither as a standalone narrative nor as worthwhile insight into the series overall. And yet, The Phantom Pain is the best stealth-action game ever made, one where playing flawlessly is just as thrilling as outright failure. And boy – what a thrill. It's a shame because it doesn't really set up like that. Right around the time that I realized that nearly all of those 'coming in chapter 2' moments were contained in the next handful of missions and I had spent hours trying to beat extreme missions (I didn't realize that you can just evade the skulls. I thought you had to fight them. Good lord.) just to get a handful of snippets from what remained of the clearly unfinished story was when I realized that this just wasn't a very good end to the series.
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Sep 8, 2015 03:01
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lovely Wizard posted:You're thinking of the game where you play as Big Boss instead of his phantom doppleganger who did absolutely nothing wrong literally the whole game. The child soldier stuff was arguably pretty hosed up, even if he tries to go "no, no, we totally aren't going to raise them to be soldiers." You can't kidnap kids to an offshore mercenary base and isolate them from every living thing that is not a soldier, while a bunch of soldiers sit around "educating" them, and expect that not to gently caress them up and almost assuredly lead them into the life of a soldier. Keeping Code Talker around to keep researching his insanely destructive parasites with literally zero non-weaponized benefits is also pretty questionable. The game isn't so much about being "evil" as it is about watching Venom become disillusioned with "being Big Boss" - by the end he is worn out, he's killed dozens of his own men, and he has had his identity stripped away by the one man who promised he would never use him as a tool. It's more meant to show the justification for holing up in Outer Heaven and going nuclear than it is to be the fall of Big Boss, even if that is what the promotional material was advertising. The Real Big Boss is arguably the worse of the two for betraying the one core ideal that he has lived his life by and built an entire nation around.
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Sep 8, 2015 03:08
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Woah woah woah woah, Konami did a takedown on the unused monologue : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JbUfSICGiU DLC might actually be on the table, filing a takedown on unused poo poo for something you don't plan on supporting longterm outside of the multiplayer is pretty pointless.
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Sep 8, 2015 03:13
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What an odd thing to take down. It didn't really add anything either.
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Sep 8, 2015 03:19
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Or they are just assholes. I'd love to believe this game is getting more content, but considering Kojima already has one foot out the door, it probably isn't happening unless they bring in another team to push something out without him. It would be pretty dumb to rush the game out and then immediately release DLC to help smooth over the rough parts that rushing the game out created, but I guess weirder things have happened, especially if they can charge extra for it.
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Sep 8, 2015 03:20
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Or they are just assholes. They haven't taken down the collectors edition episode 51 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B4JIHh5Jqk) video even though it has 150k views, while the monologue barely broke like 1000 views after a day or two. 
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Sep 8, 2015 04:15
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I would probably pay for Chapter 3 DLC
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Sep 8, 2015 04:19
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4Chan also had a widespread rumor that there would be a Day 1 story patch. No new content is forthcoming. Konami doesn't give a poo poo and Koji-Pro doesn't have the time.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:19
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It turns out that Hayter getting replaced, Kojima getting released, the game getting cut, and the videos taken down are all part of a vast elaborate promotional scheme hatched by Kojima and Konami for the Mission 51 DLC and Operation Intrude DLC.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:21
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The only dlc I want is Quiet back dlc
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Sep 8, 2015 04:23
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VarXX posted:I would probably pay for Chapter 3 DLC I'd pay for dlc that loving finishes chapter 2. Oxxidation posted:4Chan also had a widespread rumor that there would be a Day 1 story patch. No new content is forthcoming. Konami doesn't give a poo poo and Koji-Pro doesn't have the time. The fact that they took down a video that is completely innocuous if they're done with the game is weird as poo poo. I just got a cold thought - what if the missing hunks of story and narrative, as well as the Camp Omega bonus, were outright stripped from the final product to be sold as DLC later?
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Sep 8, 2015 04:25
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lovely Wizard posted:The fact that they took down a video that is completely innocuous if they're done with the game is weird as poo poo. No, it isn't. Konami have already shown themselves to be excessively controlling and litigious. That monologue wasn't part of officially distributed content unlike the cutscene provided in the CE. Someone in Konami got a bug up their rear end about it, reported it, and it got taken down. I don't like the hacked-up end of this thing any more than you do, but absolutely everything about the situation surrounding Phantom Pain makes it clear that no new content is coming after MGO. No DLC, probably not even patches unless they're for especially egregious issues.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:27
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If the content was complete already then sure, I could see them doing that. But the Chapter 51 stuff was still in very rough shape and there is nothing to indicate that anything that got cut was anywhere near a playable condition. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't think the video being taken down is something to read too deeply into.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:29
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Why does Mantis kill the helicopter about to kill Venom with a flame whale? Isn't he attached to Volgin at that point? I read something about him showing up over Snake's shoulder or something. Second one? Snake's rage won out for a moment?
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Sep 8, 2015 04:32
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Dohaeris posted:Why does Mantis kill the helicopter about to kill Venom with a flame whale? Isn't he attached to Volgin at that point? Yes, he's attached to Volgin. Which means he facilitates Volgin's, and only Volgin's, murder of Snake. Some XOF chumps don't get to kill-steal while Mantis has his back.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:33
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The game provides a good explanation for why Mantis joined up with FOXHOUND: Liquid is a loving endless wellspring of impotent hate and anger. Also, I've heard that there's a tape that mentions that Eli is doing badly in his biology lessons.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:34
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Ekusukariba posted:The only dlc I want is Quiet back dlc I want a Chapter 3 DLC, Quiet returns DLC (not a story thing, that was wrapped up about as well as you could possibly expect it to be, just give me back her as a buddy), and an Outer Heaven epilogue. If the end of Truth that is meant to be Venom languishing before a mirror as Solid Snake wrecks his poo poo, show it in more depth. Or just put Venom in the same room as Big Boss so Venom can be justified as a character and we can start to address some of that Skull Face transformation that was hinted at but never amounted to anything. This is of course all fantasy because there won't be any story DLC because, unless it is just restoring cut content, I find it difficult to believe they could bring Keifer back . I will gladly be proven wrong.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:44
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In It For The Tank posted:I want a Chapter 3 DLC, Quiet returns DLC (not a story thing, that was wrapped up about as well as you could possibly expect it to be, just give me back her as a buddy), and an Outer Heaven epilogue. If the end of Truth that is meant to be Venom languishing before a mirror as Solid Snake wrecks his poo poo, show it in more depth. Or just put Venom in the same room as Big Boss so Venom can be justified as a character and we can start to address some of that Skull Face transformation that was hinted at but never amounted to anything. They barely had him talk in the first place, I'd be incredibly surprised if he came back. And what's this about that scene being from MG1? I didn't get that at all, but I'm not too familiar with those.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:47
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I actually liked the story in this even if the game is unfinished (though not as much as everyone makes out)
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Sep 8, 2015 04:52
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lovely Wizard posted:They haven't taken down the collectors edition episode 51 video even though it has 150k views, while the monologue barely broke like 1000 views after a day or two. Hey so... why did anyone think that we were actually playing as Big Boss when at the very start of the game you see him shirtless and he doesn't have a big S scar on his chest? Kind of a lovely twist when you make it obvious that early...
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Sep 8, 2015 04:54
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DaveKap posted:I'm confused. What is the monologue? They took down the youtube version of this : https://a.pomf.cat/abcyrl.mp4 which is obviously after Venom is aware of his role as Big Boss's phantom. Also I thought MAYBE we might be playing as Solidus because he aged faster than Liquid (little poo poo Eli) or Solid Snake if we weren't the avatar/medic. Shitty Wizard fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 04:56
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Dohaeris posted:They barely had him talk in the first place, I'd be incredibly surprised if he came back. And what's this about that scene being from MG1? I didn't get that at all, but I'm not too familiar with those. The room that Venom is in has the Outer Heaven logo all over everything in the reflections. The tape he puts in is labeled Operation Intrude just like the MG1 mission. Big Boss was briefing him on Snake.
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Sep 8, 2015 04:57
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it would make sense if konami specifically cut the stuff out to sell as dlc.
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Sep 8, 2015 05:00
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