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Hijo Del Helmsley posted:I someone call it "Terrible in the best way possible", which is perfect. It's basically the opposite of someone making a movie so intentionally campy that it turns out really bad. But MGS is like, "we're doing our best, guys, but it keeps turning out weird but people love it for some reason"
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Sep 8, 2015 20:23
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OhGreatAGinger posted:6. Nobody's punched Ocelot in his stupid face yet. mods????
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Sep 8, 2015 20:25
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Chippita posted:Quiet's fight could have been replaced with 12 snipers who took turns firing at you from different positions and it'd still be piss easy. Try doing that mission on extreme without markers or HUD elements, then see if it's easy
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Sep 8, 2015 20:29
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Tamayachi posted:It's basically the opposite of someone making a movie so intentionally campy that it turns out really bad. But MGS is like, "we're doing our best, guys, but it keeps turning out weird but people love it for some reason" If you think that Kojima's writing is completely serious, you probably didn't play Peacewalker.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:30
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Tamayachi posted:It's basically the opposite of someone making a movie so intentionally campy that it turns out really bad. But MGS is like, "we're doing our best, guys, but it keeps turning out weird but people love it for some reason" Kojima is Tommy Wiseau if Tommy Wiseau was also really talented.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:30
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Tamayachi posted:It's basically the opposite of someone making a movie so intentionally campy that it turns out really bad. But MGS is like, "we're doing our best, guys, but it keeps turning out weird but people love it for some reason" Most people loved MGS for the boss fights, the well written but absurd story/cinematics, and the gameplay. Only one of these things made the cut this time though. No blowing up tanks with a single grenade, running on rockets, or an old man fist fight. The most cinematic tension in this game is during the Jeep Ride, and I still put "Soldier with stomach problems" on over the speaker while rapidly equipping NVGs, which was still more entertaining than every single scene with Skull Face in it. MGS4 had its issues of being more of a movie than a game, but that's also the reason it was so loving good. Revengeance had better plot and boss fights than this game and it wasn't even made by Kojima.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:31
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Buschmaki posted:I'm about to blow the doors open on Quiet in my next post, I didn't ignore that point so get ready. I'm holding my breath. I'm ready. Bring it on...
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Sep 8, 2015 20:32
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I think Quiet is an allegory for exploitation in general. After Big Boss lights her on fire, burning away her previous life, she only exists as a tool for Skull Face and then as a tool for Big Boss. Skull Face deprives her of her words, and her chance at a normal life. He then strips her of her humanity (the parasites) and symbolically of her clothes, one of the primary things that seperates humans from animals. She only exists as a half-naked tool for revenge. Then she joins up with Big Boss and he and Diamond Digs begin to exploit her, as a tool on the battlefield, as a link to Cipher, and as a sort of scientific curiosity due to her parasites. She falls in love with Big Boss and strips off the marks of exploitation and stands before him naked and pure. But Big Boss remains clothed and guarded during this scene, and her rejection of Big Boss is important to her storyline. As her rejecting her role as a tool to be exploited, even by Big Boss. When she leaves, it's because she has cast aside her desire for revenge (rejecting her role as Skull Face's tool) and rejects Big Boss and her love for him (which only took root when she was in the position of being a tool for Diamond Dogs). Think about it, Quiet is the only human buddy, and buddies are grouped together with weapons and items in your loadout screen. She decides to take her life into her own hands, which is when you also hear her speak for the 1st time as Quiet. I may be reading too much into this, but saying she's just. "Weird sex thing" is dumb.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:33
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Buschmaki posted:If that's true, then why is Big Boss starting a nation outside of Zero or Cipher's control composed of soldiers loyal only to him? Skull Faces plan makes sense because written language won't do poo poo on a battlefield where you need real-time updates on tactical information, which necessitates that people are speaking, as a casette tape points out. Mantis exists as a thematic device which shows that hatred and rage can not only consume you, but those around you as well, so he doesn't need a character. I don't care if it retcons games made 30 years ago. Because Big Boss is still going through with his misguided interpretation of The Boss' will. But he's no longer at blows with Zero. MGS 4 says that Zero built The Patriot AIs to spite Big Boss yet in MGS V, he says that Big Boss should use Venom as a decoy to protect himself and that he's leaving The Patriot AIs to Sigint and Strangelove so it could maintain things while Zero slowly becomes a vegetable. Big Boss goes into a speech after the credits of MGS 4 of how both him and Zero completely hosed the world with their petty fighting after both misinterpreting The Boss' will, but in MGS V, he's already made peace with Zero before Venom even wakes up. Skull Face's plan is batshit stupid even by Metal Gear standards. He wants to eliminate English by killing everybody who even speaks English because that'd unite the world... somehow. Meanwhile by this version of the 80s, you already have technology like iDroids and the beginnings of the Internet are around, which would provide tactical battlefield data in real time far faster than someone with a radio and a voice would. Not to mention his sole motive just seems to be because he has hurt feelings from Zero. Mantis exists as a thematic device? Mantis exists as a Deus Ex Machina, used to progress the story when Kojima had no idea how to progress from plot point A to plot point B. He's a literal nobody, an empty shell. His characterization all comes from MGS 1 but if you haven't played that game you get absolutely no sense of who he is or why he's doing what he's doing. Also MGS 3 or 4 are hardly 30 years old, dude. Buschmaki posted:I'm about to blow the doors open on Quiet in my next post, I didn't ignore that point so get ready. Oh I can't wait to hear how you'll justify Quiet's design. It's pretty obvious she was just eye candy and the whole photosynthetic thing was thrown in at the last minute because Kojima probably didn't expect the backlash towards her design. Funky Valentine posted:The plot of Metal Gear is from an objective standpoint bad, but the sheer passion and love crafted into it makes you forget that and easily accept nanoparasites. Pretty much, but the charm of the series in MGS V is in the gameplay and not the story this time around. When you get Navy SEALs complaining about duds or cutscenes involving men who shoot bees from their mouth or even poopy pants Johnny and Meryl discussing their wedding plans while fighting a small army of soldiers, it's stupid in the best way. To me, the story of MGS V is just plain stupid but without that charm of the older games. EDIT Buschmaki posted:I think Quiet is an allegory for exploitation in general. After Big Boss lights her on fire, burning away her previous life, she only exists as a tool for Skull Face and then as a tool for Big Boss. Skull Face deprives her of her words, and her chance at a normal life. He then strips her of her humanity (the parasites) and symbolically of her clothes, one of the primary things that seperates humans from animals. She only exists as a half-naked tool for revenge. Then she joins up with Big Boss and he and Diamond Digs begin to exploit her, as a tool on the battlefield, as a link to Cipher, and as a sort of scientific curiosity due to her parasites. She falls in love with Big Boss and strips off the marks of exploitation and stands before him naked and pure. But Big Boss remains clothed and guarded during this scene, and her rejection of Big Boss is important to her storyline. As her rejecting her role as a tool to be exploited, even by Big Boss. When she leaves, it's because she has cast aside her desire for revenge (rejecting her role as Skull Face's tool) and rejects Big Boss and her love for him (which only took root when she was in the position of being a tool for Diamond Dogs). Think about it, Quiet is the only human buddy, and buddies are grouped together with weapons and items in your loadout screen. She decides to take her life into her own hands, which is when you also hear her speak for the 1st time as Quiet. I may be reading too much into this, but saying she's just. "Weird sex thing" is dumb. You definitely are reading far too much into it. Quiet has grown fond of even the fake Big Boss, despite wanting revenge for being set on fire and leaves at the end so she can die alone to save his life. It has nothing to do with rejecting Venom. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 20:33
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The best part about MGS5 cutscenes is they do Skull Face's WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!? line at the end of Mission 30 and then immediately at the start of Mission 31, because they knew you wanted to see that again.Chippita posted:MGS4 had its issues of being more of a movie than a game, but that's also the reason it was so loving good.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:35
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Big Boss straight up rejects the Boss and the Boss' will at the end of Peace Walker, sorry but you're wrong. I'm sure soldiers fighting other dudes on a battlefield would have time to stop and text about tactical changes, sure.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:35
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Zero tries to fire a nuke from Motherbase and get MSF branded as terrorists, Big Boss is plent pissed at Zero and only regrets his actions when he sees the war economy brought about as a result of his actions.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:37
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In what world did people play MGS for the boss fights?
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Sep 8, 2015 20:38
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Skull Faces motivations are that he was almost burned to death and stripped of his humanity, and his cultural background, which Zero is trying to do by using the ethnic cleanser parasites. Zero makes peace with Big Boss but BB's drive for revenge are what causes him to fight Zero and the Patriots, to the detriment of the world.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:39
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Buschmaki posted:Big Boss straight up rejects the Boss and the Boss' will at the end of Peace Walker, sorry but you're wrong. I'm sure soldiers fighting other dudes on a battlefield would have time to stop and text about tactical changes, sure. No, he thinks The Boss betrayed her own ideals when the Peace Walker AI committed suicide. He then goes with his interpretation of her will but with the added caveat that he won't betray his own ideals. Then he goes and does exactly that in MGS V anyway. Buschmaki posted:Zero tries to fire a nuke from Motherbase and get MSF branded as terrorists, Big Boss is plent pissed at Zero and only regrets his actions when he sees the war economy brought about as a result of his actions. Zero did that to coerce Big Boss into rejoining CIPHER once he discredits MSF. He has absolutely no desire to see Big Boss killed or he wouldn't have even visited him in Cyprus before the events of TPP even happen. Funky Valentine posted:In what world did people play MGS for the boss fights? Metal Gear Solid usually has always had good boss fights though. Psycho Mantis' boss fight in MGS 1 was unlike anything at the time, Raven's boss fight was rather open ended for how you choose to beat him, Vamp's boss fight use shadows and the environment against you, The End has been called one of the greatest boss fights in video games because it is a sniper duel that can last up to an hour unless you're good at tracking him or you cheese it and while MGS 4's boss fights have problems, they have decent gimmicks. It's Peace Walker where the bosses started to falter a bit, though I still think Cocoon is a great boss fight. MGS V doesn't even really have boss fights outside of Metal Gear and Quiet. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 20:41
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What if Quiet realized Venom wasn't the Big Boss that lit her on fire and that caused the change of heart.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:43
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Mr. Fortitude posted:No, he thinks The Boss betrayed her own ideals when the Peace Walker AI committed suicide. He then goes with his interpretation of her will but with the added caveat that he won't betray his own ideals. Then he goes and does exactly that in MGS V anyway. Paz literally says if Big Boss said no, which he did, that her orders were to fire a nuke and get MSF branded as terrorists and hunted down. Big Boss probably wouldn't like that even if Zero had his interests in mind later or w/e. Big Boss also rejected the Boss and tried to unite the world through his insane soldier only country.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:45
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Funky Valentine posted:In what world did people play MGS for the boss fights? MGS1 had some of the best boss battles of any video game. objectively true.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:45
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Tamayachi posted:What if Quiet realized Venom wasn't the Big Boss that lit her on fire and that caused the change of heart. There's no evidence to support this either way, we can only go off of what the games show us.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:45
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Funky Valentine posted:In what world did people play MGS for the boss fights? MGS1 is basically a boss gauntlet with 1 or 2 rooms in between
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Sep 8, 2015 20:46
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Nakar posted:The best part about MGS5 cutscenes is they do Skull Face's WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!? line at the end of Mission 30 and then immediately at the start of Mission 31, because they knew you wanted to see that again. In a similar vein, I loving love that one of the few flashbacks to GZ was "THEY PLAYED US LIKE A drat FIDDLE!".
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Sep 8, 2015 20:50
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Bubba Smith posted:MGS1 had some of the best boss battles of any video game. objectively true. Between MGS1 and 3, you could probably make a top 10 of best boss battles ever.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:50
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Buschmaki posted:Paz literally says if Big Boss said no, which he did, that her orders were to fire a nuke and get MSF branded as terrorists and hunted down. Big Boss probably wouldn't like that even if Zero had his interests in mind later or w/e. Big Boss also rejected the Boss and tried to unite the world through his insane soldier only country. Zero is a control freak who is willing to destroy his best friend's ideals just so he can use him as an image to the world. A legend. He doesn't want him dead but he absolutely is willing to imprison him and bend him to his will. If Big Boss truly rejected The Boss' ideals then he wouldn't have continued on with MSF. He built MSF thinking that it was the kind of world without borders, soldiers without being used as tools that she wanted. Why in the hells would he double down on that if he truly rejected The Boss' will? He rejected The Boss herself, perceiving her as weak and a traitor to her own ideals. But that just gives Big Boss a firmer conviction of MSF, to do what he thought The Boss wanted and surpass her. It's not a foreign concept, Liquid wants to build Outer Heaven to surpass Big Boss in MGS 1. It's a recurring theme throughout the series.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:50
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I'll admit, when I saw the Quiet full-bond scene I laughed out loud and then said that it was weird, so maybe my brain is trying to protect MGSV's status as a masterpiece of storytelling by reading into things, but I still think Kojima had something to say about exploitation with Quiet.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:51
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The subtext of the Quiet and Boss in the rain scene is that you're supposed to get a boner
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Sep 8, 2015 20:53
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Buschmaki posted:I'll admit, when I saw the Quiet full-bond scene I laughed out loud and then said that it was weird, so maybe my brain is trying to protect MGSV's status as a masterpiece of storytelling by reading into things, but I still think Kojima had something to say about exploitation with Quiet. What, in all of the MG games, would ever make you think Kojima has ever had anything productive to say about the expploitation of female characters?
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Sep 8, 2015 20:53
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In It For The Tank posted:In a similar vein, I loving love that one of the few flashbacks to GZ was "THEY PLAYED US LIKE A drat FIDDLE!". Question: Can you play as your avatar at some point? Does it unlock after Mission 46 or something? And when you do is it like playing as a Combat Unit member or is it just Snake with your avatar head (i.e. can you use the Bionic Arm, Naked/Scarf camo variants, etc.)?
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Sep 8, 2015 20:54
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Funky Valentine posted:In what world did people play MGS for the boss fights? Every game had a bunch of elite soldiers with weird powers. These weird powers changed the feel of the game when you murder a bunch of regular guards for the past couple hours. Bees. Save data checks. Killing a boss by changing your clock two weeks ahead. You unlocked neat poo poo for taking the hard route and tranqing them. This game has elite soldiers that don't even get a name. Tranqing them is pretty much pointless considering you can still get parasites after killing them. You get your neat poo poo from Z.O.E. references. None of the bosses felt like a threat, the skulls were more annoying than they were fun to fight. I poo poo myself more at a 50 guard FOB than I ever did with the SKULLS. Once you develop the final GROM, you can pretty much run around nuke everything you consider a threat from the safety of your cardboard box, as it's deployment cost is dirt cheap and it's splash radius is loving huge. I killed the Extreme Skulls by hiding ontop of the Airport and whittling them down with splash damage while calling in supply drops. Despite being able to turn into mist and fly wherever they want, they just walked back and forth in front of the tower. Nakar posted:The best part about MGS5 cutscenes is they do Skull Face's WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!? line at the end of Mission 30 and then immediately at the start of Mission 31, because they knew you wanted to see that again. All I remember was avoiding alerts by running to the next cutscene. I mean area. Same thing?
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Sep 8, 2015 20:54
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Zero is a control freak who is willing to destroy his best friend's ideals just so he can use him as an image to the world. A legend. He doesn't want him dead but he absolutely is willing to imprison him and bend him to his will. I think you are right about the Boss and Big Boss in Peace Walker, you've changed my mind, but that doesn't really affect MGSV's story, since it seems more personal than other MGS games and not about ideals. But we've sorta drifted from my original point, which is that MGSV tell the story it set out to tell really well, but people pre-conceptions ruined it for them because it wasn't what they wanted.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:55
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Nakar posted:Kaz resolves not to get played again, gets played again. Pretty much the best character in The Phantom Pain. It's Snake with your avatar head. He gets access to Boss unique items like the bandanna and even has the horn. I think it's unlocked after mission 46.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:55
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Funky Britches posted:The subtext of the Quiet and Boss in the rain scene is that you're supposed to get a boner I think it's supposed to be cute or something. I dunno. Hideo Kojima is a man who once said he based Rosemary on his ideas of what a perfect girlfriend would be like. So I think his ideas of romance and what is cute or not is a bit warped.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:55
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Discendo Vox posted:What, in all of the MG games, would ever make you think Kojima has ever had anything productive to say about the expploitation of female characters? I think that people can grow and change, and that their views regarding things can also change as well.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:56
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Funky Britches posted:It's Snake with your avatar head. He gets access to Boss unique items like the bandanna and even has the horn. I think it's unlocked after mission 46. If your avatar is black then some outfits will still have white skin, this looks really funny on Naked outfits but I think they patched non-white chestz in. Your forearms and hands are still the color of Snake's though.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:57
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Buschmaki posted:I think you are right about the Boss and Big Boss in Peace Walker, you've changed my mind, but that doesn't really affect MGSV's story, since it seems more personal than other MGS games and not about ideals. But we've sorta drifted from my original point, which is that MGSV tell the story it set out to tell really well, but people pre-conceptions ruined it for them because it wasn't what they wanted. The problem, is mood whiplash. Big Boss already began his turn to villainy at the end of Chapter 4 of Peace Walker. That's why he's reintroduced as Big Boss but in red lettering and characters introduced as that are villains in Peace Walker. So it sets him up as ruthless and willing to do anything for revenge and the trailers for MGS V show this, with him becoming more and more like a demon over time. But then the game itself shows that no, he's made peace with Zero and is okay to go against his own ideals to protect himself but there was no build up to it. It feels like there was a missing chapter inbetween Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain. Big Boss might have turned into a villain by that point but I'd doubt he'd betray his own ideals so quickly after he perceives The Boss betrayed hers.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:59
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Nakar posted:Kaz resolves not to get played again, gets played again. Pretty much the best character in The Phantom Pain. Yes, you do play your avatar at some point.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:00
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Buschmaki posted:If your avatar is black then some outfits will still have white skin, this looks really funny on Naked outfits but I think they patched non-white chestz in. Your forearms and hands are still the color of Snake's though. Yeah the leather jacket still has white hands but the naked camos look okay now: 
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Sep 8, 2015 21:01
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Apparently someone found the cut episodes/chapters(62 unique missions) list in the Japanese files. Chapter 1 : Revenge Episode 1 : Phantom Limbs Episode 2 : Diamond Dogs Episode 3 : A Hero’s Way Episode 4 : C2W Episode 5 : Over The Fence Episode 6 : Where Do The Bees Sleep Episode 7 : Occupation Force Episode 8 : Red Brass Episode 9 : Back Up, Back Down Episode 10: Angel With A Broken Wing Episode 11: Cloaked In Silence Episode 12: Through The Hole Episode 13: The Enemy Of My Enemy Chapter 2 : Dark Depths Episode 1 : Hellbound Episode 2 : From The Inside Episode 3 : Bad Dreams Episode 4 : Domination Episode 5 : Old Bones Episode 6 : Dangerous Wisdom Episode 7 : State Of Exception Episode 8 : Dirt Work Episode 9 : Open Hands Episode 10: Diamonds In The Sky Episode 11: Ghosts Episode 12: Playing With Monsters Episode 13: Kill The Beast Episode 14: Green Light Episode 15: Coup De Grace Episode 16: Lurking In The Dark Episode 17: Open Minds Episode 18: No Slaves Episode 19: Club Of The Unseen Episode 20: Two-Way Race Episode 21: Traitors’ Caravan Episode 22: Fire and Cold Ashes Chapter 3 : The Costs Of Revenge Episode 1 : Pestilence Episode 2 : Phantom Pain Episode 3 : Madness Of Men Episode 4 : Three Episode 5 : Isolation Episode 6 : Severed Family Episode 7 : Fatal Massages Episode 8 : Voices Episode 9 : Corrupted Episode 10: Midnight Raid Episode 11: In The Face Of Pain Episode 12: The Beauty Of The Battlefield Episode 13: Manufactured Skin Episode 14: Homonculus Episode 15: There Are No Heroes Chapter 4 : Punishing Words Episode 1 : Sins Of The Father Episode 2 : Loyalty Episode 3 : No Turning Back Episode 4 : Metallic Archaea Episode 5 : Sahelanthropus Episode 6 : War Is Peace I Episode 7 : Condition: Comatose Episode 8 : War Is Peace II Chapter V : Confrontation Episode 1 : Pale Shadows Of Forgotten Names Episode 2 : Truth: The Man Who Sold The World Episode 3 : Demons Epilogue : Demons In The Cold Of The Night Chippita fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 21:04
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I wonder if Kojima is ever even going to publicly talk about it. I don't think there's even been an interview yet. The remake of MG1 with Venom going insane would be awesome. At the end of your mission Big Boss realizes that you're actually going to destroy his plan B for real and tries to get you to abort. Kojima would never make something so straightforward though. The gameplay would also have to take a step backward too, as we're far beyond OSP. Full Battle Rattle fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 21:12
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I made fun of people posting huge essays on why the story in this game is bad, but I'm doing the same thing but saying it's good. This game has driven me insane.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:14
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Oh I can't wait to hear how you'll justify Quiet's design. It's pretty obvious she was just eye candy and the whole photosynthetic thing was thrown in at the last minute because Kojima probably didn't expect the backlash towards her design. I think the photosynthetic thing was probably there from the start, but that it was also likely intended as justification for her design (maybe even just subconsciously). Like, I don't think it was thrown in after the backlash or anything, but I also think it's supposed to be justification for having her wear very little. Just the way this game's camera direction treats both Quiet and the female Skulls is enough to cause me not to give Kojima the benefit of the doubt on this one.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:16
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