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Djarum posted:I have a Maximus VII Hero and a Scarlett 2i4 and the difference between the Hero's onboard audio and the Scarlett is night at day, especially with good speakers/headphones. Even with my crappy Logitech computer speakers I had before I got my Mackie MR6s it was a noticeable difference. How does a USB DAC compare to that DacMagic? Is it really worth $350 more?
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Sep 8, 2015 18:18
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Varg posted:Well this is what I thought the general consensus to be at first anyway. Still been trying to educate myself on DACs and different connections... it seems like the next logical step up from one like that Scarlett 2i2/2i4 is a much more expensive one that offers both XLR output and optical input, like this Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus Good god no. Definitely not for PC audio. Unless the XLR output is an absolute must, I'd argue that the Schiit Modi Uber would probably give you virtually the same results for $150, and it would have the same number of switchable USB, optical, and coax ins (though you'd have to choose one TOSLINK and one coax instead of either/or). Or you could spend the same amount on the 2i2 for a different set of ins/outs. Unless you're playing with the sorts of filetypes and bitrates that actually require more exotic DACs (in which case you would already know exactly what hardware to buy), pretty much any decent thing on the market will perform roughly the same where "digital-to-analog conversion" is concerned. Past an honestly pretty low entry point, you're only really differentiating between inputs/outputs and chassis. There are people using $30 FiiO Taishans to route the optical signal from Airport Expresses into multi-thousand dollar hi-fi systems and they work just as well as something like the DACmagic would. Yes, the DACmagic probably has more physical stuff inside of it (two processing units, etc) but you'd be incredibly hard-pressed to tell the difference in a blind listen. All a DAC is supposed to do is convert a digital sound signal into an analog line level signal. Its job is to disappear.
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Sep 8, 2015 18:52
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Good god no. Definitely not for PC audio. Unless the XLR output is an absolute must, I'd argue that the Schiit Modi Uber would probably give you virtually the same results for $150, and it would have the same number of switchable USB, optical, and coax ins (though you'd have to choose one TOSLINK and one coax instead of either/or). Or you could spend the same amount on the 2i2 for a different set of ins/outs. Exactly this. Honestly I wouldn't even bother with optical unless you had something that absolutely needs it. Pretty much any decent USB DAC will do the job nearly the same, your choice will mainly have to do with what kind of inputs and outputs you need and driver/hardware build quality. Everything within the $125-$200 range will be pretty close in terms of specs and whatnot. There is no sense in spending more, you would be better off in putting that money into better speakers/monitors/headphones. If you have something that requires a XLR output from the DAC just get a RCA/TRS to XLR cable. I would say that if you are going to be plugging into a XLR on a set of speakers you will likely want to use a TRS to XLR as most TRS and XLR outputs are balanced. This is actually what I use with my setup in fact.
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Sep 8, 2015 19:29
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many thanks again, goon insights continue to make that  priceless
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Sep 8, 2015 19:56
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Djarum posted:I have a Maximus VII Hero and a Scarlett 2i4 and the difference between the Hero's onboard audio and the Scarlett is night at day, especially with good speakers/headphones. Even with my crappy Logitech computer speakers I had before I got my Mackie MR6s it was a noticeable difference. I would challenge you to ABX them because what you're saying is extremely unlikely to be anything more than placebo.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:14
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KillHour posted:I would challenge you to ABX them because what you're saying is extremely unlikely to be anything more than placebo. Computers are noisy beasts inside, I'd not be shocked if the cheapest USB sound card is worlds above the best onboard motherboard sound money can buy.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:17
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RIP Paul Walker posted:Computers are noisy beasts inside, I'd not be shocked if the cheapest USB sound card is worlds above the best onboard motherboard sound money can buy. Any decent motherboard has shielded audio components now. My Behringer equalizer introduces more noise in the signal chain than my onboard audio (or at least it did until the onboard audio poo poo the bed).
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Sep 8, 2015 20:24
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KillHour posted:Any decent motherboard has shielded audio components now. My Behringer equalizer introduces more noise in the signal chain than my onboard audio (or at least it did until the onboard audio poo poo the bed). Oh good to know. Shows how old my computers are I guess! Also, fwiw, my behringer EQ (feedback destroyer) is noisier than the noisiest onboard I've heard. Thankfully that only EQs the subs where I can't tell any bit of difference.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:36
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RIP Paul Walker posted:Computers are noisy beasts inside, I'd not be shocked if the cheapest USB sound card is worlds above the best onboard motherboard sound money can buy. Nope. I have an Edirol UA-1X right here that is ridiculously noisy, even noisier than onboard audio. But only on my PC, my dad is using one that is completely identical, and it gives perfect sound from his PC. I used a FiiO D3 for a while, because optical was 100% noise free. I later moved to an ODAC+O2, to get a good headphone amp, and that is 100% completely dead silent even though headphones at full volume with maximum gain applied. For most computers, everything should act about the same, but there are definitely fringe cases. And onboard audio is actually really drat good these days.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:54
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KillHour posted:I would challenge you to ABX them because what you're saying is extremely unlikely to be anything more than placebo. I have done it, and with other people. For onboard audio the Hero is fine for average computer users with some 2.1 Logitech speakers or some garbage gaming headset. But the sound quality out of the Scarlett is just a lot better. As a added plus it just works in OSX and Linux so when I boot into them I don't have to deal with getting my onboard audio working at all. I will say it is probably the best piece of hardware I have bought recently.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:10
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Djarum posted:I have done it, and with other people. For onboard audio the Hero is fine for average computer users with some 2.1 Logitech speakers or some garbage gaming headset. But the sound quality out of the Scarlett is just a lot better. As a added plus it just works in OSX and Linux so when I boot into them I don't have to deal with getting my onboard audio working at all. I will say it is probably the best piece of hardware I have bought recently. I'm having a hard time figuring out what you mean by "sound quality." Are you talking about a lower noise floor (less hiss) or what? Describe the difference it makes.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:23
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Now I'm just a little bit curious  How would you describe the difference?
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Sep 8, 2015 21:23
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For me it's all about hiss. My desktop, laptop, and the work iMac all have enough hiss to bother me on headphones. Especially my Etymotics since they're sooo sensitive.
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Sep 8, 2015 21:32
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KillHour posted:I'm having a hard time figuring out what you mean by "sound quality." Are you talking about a lower noise floor (less hiss) or what? Describe the difference it makes. Lower noise floor of course as it is going through USB instead of being on the board but overall clarity and overall better quality sound reproduction. Even with the Hero supposedly having a headphone amp onboard it can not drive any of my headphones as well as the Scarlett can. I have been considering getting a cheap tube based headphone amp to try ala Bravo Audio or a Little Dot just to see how that sounds. With the crappy Logitech speakers it was even a obvious improvement from onboard audio. Less hiss means you can have them both lower and higher volume without missing clarity. I haven't tried the Mackies but just due to them having proper balanced output to them is likely going to make them sound better. If I had my desktop here I would test it out right now but I moved this week so all my stuff isn't moved yet.
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Sep 8, 2015 23:09
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Djarum posted:Lower noise floor of course as it is going through USB instead of being on the board quote:overall clarity and overall better quality sound reproduction. Those are nebulous terms with no real foundation. How is the clarity better? Is there more treble? How is the overall sound quality better reproduced? Can you be certain it's not the external audio interface that's jazzing it up a little by added a mild smiley face EQ curve? quote:Even with the Hero supposedly having a headphone amp onboard it can not drive any of my headphones as well as the Scarlett can. This can be an issue. A lot of bluster is thrown about claiming "dedicated headphone amps" and whatnot on sound cards and onboard audio, but hardly anyone posts the specs. How much power can it deliver? What is the output impedance? Basically if the output impedance is more than ~4Ω, it's poo poo and worthless for 32Ω headphones, which are by far the most common. As a rule of thumb, output impedance should be less than 1/8th of the headphones' impedance. It's very likely that this is the major difference in sound quality you're experiencing. If the output impedance is too high for the headphones you're using, the sound will go to poo poo. Boomy exaggerated bass, shrill treble, all kinds of fun things can happen. quote:I have been considering getting a cheap tube based headphone amp to try ala Bravo Audio or a Little Dot just to see how that sounds. Don't bother. Tubes are great for making music, but poo poo for playing it back. quote:With the crappy Logitech speakers it was even a obvious improvement from onboard audio. Less hiss means you can have them both lower and higher volume without missing clarity. So the main issues are hiss and high output impedance. Hiss means you've got uncommonly poo poo onboard audio. High output impedance can be solved by getting a decent headphone amp and/or using an audio interface with low output impedance in a dedicated headphone amp section. Not all headphone amps or audio interfaces adhere to this, though. Read the specs. ODAC+O2 is good, so is the Schiit stuff. quote:I haven't tried the Mackies but just due to them having proper balanced output to them is likely going to make them sound better. Not a chance unless you have like >50m cable runs in electrically noisy conditions. That's literally all balanced cables do, they reduce noisy from outside electrical interference. Literally the only reason I run balanced cables from my DSP crossover to my speakers is that the native connection for both the crossover and speakers is XLR. It's always good practice to use as few adapters as possible. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 23:23
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KozmoNaut posted:Those are nebulous terms with no real foundation. Well a perfect example is a lot of my music both for listening and production is high resolution (24/96), most onboard audio can not handle high resolution well. Hell up until fairly recently I believe a lot of them down converted stuff down to lower resolution before outputting it. Also stereo separation on some onboard audio can be suspect as well as a hidden EQ curve that you just alluded too. Personally I am just more comfortable with a DAC that doesn't cost a fraction of a penny. KozmoNaut posted:This can be an issue. A lot of bluster is thrown about claiming "dedicated headphone amps" and whatnot on sound cards and onboard audio, but hardly anyone posts the specs. How much power can it deliver? What is the output impedance? This is quite true. I ended up getting a cheap Fiio portable amp for bringing around with me and there is a noticeable difference. I imagine why this isn't not a bigger issue since a majority of people are going to be listening to garbage 128k or lower files on garbage headphones or earbuds. KozmoNaut posted:Don't bother. Tubes are great for making music, but poo poo for playing it back. See I prefer the sound out of a tube based guitar/bass amp as it sounds more warm. I still might grab one just to see how it is as they are cheap enough and if it sucks it will still look pretty on a desk. KozmoNaut posted:Not a chance unless you have like >50m cable runs in electrically noisy conditions. That's literally all balanced cables do, they reduce noisy from outside electrical interference. Everyone is different and has different tastes and quirks. I am pretty happy with my setup and it performs very well for me. Could I spend more and have no measurable difference? I am positive. I am pretty sure I could spend less and have much the same satisfaction. But I am happy and that is what matters most.
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Sep 9, 2015 17:01
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Djarum posted:See I prefer the sound out of a tube based guitar/bass amp as it sounds more warm. I still might grab one just to see how it is as they are cheap enough and if it sucks it will still look pretty on a desk. Just add a bit of midrange EQ and you get the same effect for zero money.
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Sep 9, 2015 17:07
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Djarum posted:Personally I am just more comfortable with a DAC that doesn't cost a fraction of a penny. The DAC chips themselves cost roughly the same, whether it's onboard audio or an expensive fancy-pants DAC. It's one of those dirty little secrets the manufacturers don't want to tell you. Obviously, the implementation and surrounding electronics do matter, but the DAC itself costs next to nothing.
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Sep 9, 2015 20:07
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I have have an ageing but usable set of Logitech 5.1 speakers which connect through 3 separate audio cables. The new PC I'm buying only has a single audio-out socket, although it supposedly supports 5.1 audio. Is there some kind of adapter that would work, or am I best adding a good-value soundcard with multiple audio-out holes (like, say, an Asus DG)?
Galaspar fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 18:46
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Would I be foolish to think that I could just buy these JBL speakers/sub and plug them into my PC? They all have their own amps and my onboard sound works with the 5.1 setup I have now. I guess I would need an adapter to go from the 1/4 inch to 1/8 inch.
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Oct 18, 2015 18:50
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Galaspar posted:I have have an ageing but usable set of Logitech 5.1 speakers which connect through 3 separate audio cables. The new PC I'm buying only has a single audio-out socket, although it supposedly supports 5.1 audio. Is there some kind of adapter that would work, or am I best adding a good-value soundcard with multiple audio-out holes (like, say, an Asus DG)? You'll need to add a soundcard unless you have optical audio out. I thought all the Logitech 5.1 systems had optical audio in. ItBurns posted:Would I be foolish to think that I could just buy these JBL speakers/sub and plug them into my PC? They all have their own amps and my onboard sound works with the 5.1 setup I have now. I guess I would need an adapter to go from the 1/4 inch to 1/8 inch. I would definitely count on needing a DAC. I have the JBL LSR305s and while my onboard audio was fine with my previous speakers, the JBLs are so accurate they made my systems noise extremely noticeable until I bought an external DAC. Brain Issues fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 18:57
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Galaspar posted:I have have an ageing but usable set of Logitech 5.1 speakers which connect through 3 separate audio cables. The new PC I'm buying only has a single audio-out socket, although it supposedly supports 5.1 audio. Is there some kind of adapter that would work, or am I best adding a good-value soundcard with multiple audio-out holes (like, say, an Asus DG)? It likely supports 5.1 via a digital output such as toslink or hdmi. Something like this would do if there's an SPDIF output on the motherboard: http://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Direct-External-Channel-SW-29545/dp/B004Y0ERRO/
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Oct 18, 2015 19:03
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Galaspar posted:I have have an ageing but usable set of Logitech 5.1 speakers which connect through 3 separate audio cables. The new PC I'm buying only has a single audio-out socket, although it supposedly supports 5.1 audio. Is there some kind of adapter that would work, or am I best adding a good-value soundcard with multiple audio-out holes (like, say, an Asus DG)? Like Brain Issues and Killhour noted, it probably only supports 5.1 through a digital output of some sort. There is also the possibility that it has the full complement of analog outputs as headers on the motherboard. In that case you'll need a breakout panel to turn those header pins into proper 3.5mm jacks. If that's the case, your motherboard manufacturer probably sells one. ItBurns posted:Would I be foolish to think that I could just buy these JBL speakers/sub and plug them into my PC? They all have their own amps and my onboard sound works with the 5.1 setup I have now. I guess I would need an adapter to go from the 1/4 inch to 1/8 inch. Not at all, it will be an awesome setup. The most important thing is that you have to set the input sensitivity to -10dBV, which is the output level from consumer equipment such as PCs and most hifi gear. +4dBu is for professional gear, and the JBLs will probably be the only pro gear in your setup. Just follow the manual for instructions on how you need to set it on the speakers as well, it could go both ways, but I bet they have to be at +4dBu, and the sub will handle the level conversion for you as long as that's set correctly. Remember that you need an adapter that goes from stereo 3.5mm jack to 2x mono 6.3mm jack or 2x male XLR. As an alternative, you can get a normal 3.5mm jack to stereo RCA cable and then use two RCA to 6.3mm jack adapters (or RCA to male XLR adapters). Go for whichever options is cheapest. Post a link here before you buy so we can tell if you've got the right cable/adapters. And yeah, you may notice the inadequacies of your onboard sound, as some motherboards put out a shitton of noise on the analog outputs. If that's the case, get something like an ODAC, which is a great USB DAC, proper world-beater for not a lot of money. Or if you've got TOSLINK or S/PDIF output, the FiiO D3 is a great choice, too. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 19:18
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Galaspar posted:I have have an ageing but usable set of Logitech 5.1 speakers which connect through 3 separate audio cables. The new PC I'm buying only has a single audio-out socket, although it supposedly supports 5.1 audio. Is there some kind of adapter that would work, or am I best adding a good-value soundcard with multiple audio-out holes (like, say, an Asus DG)? Before you mess with anything else get one of these. http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Female-Stereo-Splitter-Gold-Plated/dp/B0056PVM5G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1445195105&sr=8-3& That theoretically should work, it did with mine at least.
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Oct 18, 2015 20:06
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Djarum posted:That theoretically should work, it did with mine at least.  You'll get sound from all speakers, but it won't be surround sound; just replicated stereo pairs. To top it off, with either a left or a right channel going to your center.
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Oct 18, 2015 20:37
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Flipperwaldt posted:It can't work, not even theoretically. It is a 4 pole/3 conductor end. A lot of the cheaper systems now are just sending the 3 ends of sound through the 3 connectors on the TRS cable. Logitech makes/made a official one but it is was more expensive and does the same thing as that.
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Oct 18, 2015 20:49
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I need some small speakers that take RCA and don't gently caress around. I am replacing bookshelf speakers that I don't have space for.
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Oct 18, 2015 21:53
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Djarum posted:It is a 4 pole/3 conductor end. A lot of the cheaper systems now are just sending the 3 ends of sound through the 3 connectors on the TRS cable. Logitech makes/made a official one but it is was more expensive and does the same thing as that.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:02
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Flipperwaldt posted:I'm thinking you've linked the wrong thing, because what you did link sure as hell isn't capable of transmitting the six separate signals required for 5.1 surround sound. It was. http://www.amazon.com/CablesOnline-3-Rings-Splitter-Gold-Plated-AV-Y01F4/dp/B00AUVSYBG/ref=pd_sim_23_19?ie=UTF8&refRID=0J76DHDW367XKCSK0JYP That is what I am talking about. Logitech and Radio Shack both sold the same thing in a small box adaptor form a few years ago. For whatever reason that version has dried up but this is effectively the same thing with a bit of cable length. There is also a RCA to 5.1 TRS adaptor out there but I haven't messed with one of those. But I used this setup with a couple of machines with a x530 Logitech speaker set and all 5 speakers were working properly. Personally I'd go spend the money towards a good 2.0/DAC combo or 5.1 receiver/speakers instead of a 5.1 sound card but to each their own.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:26
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signalnoise posted:I need some small speakers that take RCA and don't gently caress around. I am replacing bookshelf speakers that I don't have space for. Define "don't gently caress around". Audioengine A2s are quite nice, and very small.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:36
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KozmoNaut posted:Define "don't gently caress around". Yep, also Mackie CR3/CR4.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:40
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KozmoNaut posted:Not at all, it will be an awesome setup. The most important thing is that you have to set the input sensitivity to -10dBV, which is the output level from consumer equipment such as PCs and most hifi gear. +4dBu is for professional gear, and the JBLs will probably be the only pro gear in your setup. Just follow the manual for instructions on how you need to set it on the speakers as well, it could go both ways, but I bet they have to be at +4dBu, and the sub will handle the level conversion for you as long as that's set correctly. Brain Issues posted:I would definitely count on needing a DAC. I have the JBL LSR305s and while my onboard audio was fine with my previous speakers, the JBLs are so accurate they made my systems noise extremely noticeable until I bought an external DAC. Thanks for the advice. So far I have... PC ---S/PDIF---> FiiO D3 ---3.5mm Stero to 1/4 mono---> Sub ---XLR---> Monitors
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Oct 18, 2015 23:20
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ItBurns posted:Thanks for the advice. So far I have... Yes, that will work perfectly Remember to read the manual for the correct input sensitivity settings on the speakers.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:23
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Instead of the adapter cable, I'd go with a couple of these since a set of nice cables seems to be included in that speaker package deal already. vvv E: Good to know I'm not tripping, christ. Flipperwaldt fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 23:35
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Djarum posted:It was. That could, at best, send independent mono channels to the three outputs. 5.1 requires 3 stereo outputs (6 total channels). You would need 2 of those to get 5.1 at a minimum.
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Oct 19, 2015 02:10
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KozmoNaut posted:Define "don't gently caress around". Maybe loving around a little bit more than that, I don't really have that kind of money. Looking at similar form factor to the A2's and the Mackies, do you guys know if the M-Audio AV30's are decent?
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Oct 19, 2015 02:46
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KozmoNaut posted:Yes, that will work perfectly How would I control the volume on this setup? From my PC?
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Oct 19, 2015 05:35
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ItBurns posted:How would I control the volume on this setup? From my PC? Yes, or using a volume control knob like the Fostex PC-1. I'm using one with an old Yamaha power amp for a simple bedroom setup, and it's a very nice little knob. You could also go whole hog and get a stereo preamplifier, that would get you multiple inputs as well. Second hand models are not that expensive. signalnoise posted:Maybe loving around a little bit more than that, I don't really have that kind of money. Looking at similar form factor to the A2's and the Mackies, do you guys know if the M-Audio AV30's are decent? Yes, they are quite decent. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 06:50
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signalnoise posted:Maybe loving around a little bit more than that, I don't really have that kind of money. Looking at similar form factor to the A2's and the Mackies, do you guys know if the M-Audio AV30's are decent? The AV30 are nowhere near as good as the AV40.
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Oct 19, 2015 20:40
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I grabbed some speaker stands and it's the best dang audio purchase I've done in a while. Got some AV40's courtesy of the deals thread listing 'em on sale, was disappointed, put em on stands at head level pointing at my earholes and I can finally hear stuff without going way too loud with weird EQ curves! Bad hearing and a habit of using small desks with speakers crammed somewhere angled on the floor was no good.
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Oct 19, 2015 20:58
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