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Youre FACE to FACE with the man who sold the world
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Sep 9, 2015 20:48
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Kojima should have saved money by have Keifer voice Big Boss and Hayter do Venom as a keifer impression style Snake. Could've, should've, would've...
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Sep 9, 2015 20:49
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The whole selection of 80s singles is pretty great, i agree. Must haves, some deep cuts, etc.
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Sep 9, 2015 20:50
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Ruddha posted:you can only hallucinate things that make sense in the way that i feel is correct. Lol
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Sep 9, 2015 20:52
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I don't understand how those giant 10-gauge shells on Ocelot's bandolier are supposed to fit in his dumb guns, which can't possible by chamber for larger than 20-gauge. It took me 30 hours to realize that that was in fact the ammo for his guns. Up until that point I was like "why is ocelot carrying shells for a gun he isn't even using". Then I remembered that the Uganda or whatever fires shotgun shells. There's no way he's the real ocelot. I can't wait to get to the ending of this game so I can find out what the gently caress is going on, or complain about it. edit: I posted this in the wrong thread (this one) by accident.
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Sep 9, 2015 20:54
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I wish they did more with Skull Face. He seemed like he would've been a very, very interesting villain but he's only in.. three cut-scenes and then he dies? Waste of a really cool looking villain. His actual plan is utter idiocy though. "I'm going to destroy English so the Lingua Franca used by the world is ruined!" "But they'll just speak Mandarin or French or Spanish." "Oh."
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Sep 9, 2015 20:57
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He hallucinated he was in a room that was unfinished, a person that didn't exist, audio tapes that didn't exist and yet still have recordings on them, but ocelet saying like four lines? Inconceivable.
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Sep 9, 2015 20:58
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Oxxidation posted:It resolves the arcs of the remaining two major villains, the giant stompy doomsday robot, and the silly doomsday language parasites, and also ties off a number of statements about the cyclical and futile nature of revenge and Venom's acceptance of his new nature. It's an ending. No it isn't. There is literally no way the plot was not literally going to end with the exact circle from the start of the game to the ending which returns to the same place while also being the start of the original Metal Gear. It resolves plots. It is not the ending of the game. It certainly plays the credits but so does the end of Quiet's plotline.
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Sep 9, 2015 20:58
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Sharkopath posted:He hallucinated he was in a room that was unfinished, a person that didn't exist, audio tapes that didn't exist and yet still have recordings on them, but ocelet saying like four lines? Inconceivable. The concern is that Ocelot and Kaz do actually exist, and are always consistently extant, outside of the hallucinated space. iGestalt posted:I wish they did more with Skull Face. He seemed like he would've been a very, very interesting villain but he's only in.. three cut-scenes and then he dies? Waste of a really cool looking villain. His actual plan is utter idiocy though. They also really build him up in GZ- the audiotapes make him out to be way more effective, and unpleasant, than the incompetent weirdo we get in the main game. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 20:59
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Discendo Vox posted:They also really build him up in GZ- the audiotapes make him out to be way more effective, and unpleasant, than the incompetent weirdo we get in the main game. A lot of the stuff for him is in the tapes also, the codetalker tape with him is really dope.
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Sep 9, 2015 20:59
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ImpAtom posted:No it isn't. There is literally no way the plot was not literally going to end with the exact circle from the start of the game to the ending which returns to the same place while also being the start of the original Metal Gear. Yes it is. The true ending might have been the final tie-off to the game, but the bulk of its characters and themes are resolved (with an unusual degree of deftness) by Mission 51. That makes it an ending. Much like Peace Walker had two endings!
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Sep 9, 2015 21:01
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Oxxidation posted:Yes it is. The true ending might have been the final tie-off to the game, but the bulk of its characters and themes are resolved (with an unusual degree of deftness) by Episode 51. Unless you saw a different version of Episode 51 then I did this isn't really true. It resolve's Eli's plotline but Eli's plotline is part of a trilogy with Huey and Quiet's endings, all of which serve to reinforce the ideas the game stated. Its absence is notable but it literally on part with those three because all three together form the thematic whole of the ending, not Eli on its own. Unsurprisingly all three are based around the parasites too.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:03
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ImpAtom posted:Unless you saw a different version of Episode 51 then I did this isn't really true. It resolve's Eli's plotline but Eli's plotline is part of a trilogy with Huey and Quiet's endings, all of which serve to reinforce the ideas the game stated. Its absence is notable but it literally on part with those three because all three together form the thematic whole of the ending, not Eli on its own. Unsurprisingly all three are based around the parasites too. There was meant to be a scene where Venom has to blow up a village of innocents or something? That would've been an interesting piece of character.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:04
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Are...are we the parasites? We cling to this series and force it to shamble on so we can feed off it?
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Sep 9, 2015 21:07
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iGestalt posted:There was meant to be a scene where Venom has to blow up a village of innocents or something? That would've been an interesting piece of character. People keep claiming this but it isn't in the Mission 51 scene as presented. I have no doubts that could have happened (and it would have, again, thematically been relevant with Snake being forced to kill his own men during the mutation sequence) but Episode 51 as presented is that they track down Eli, defeat the Metal Gear, and then Boss has a final sequence with Eli that leads to a flash forward implying Liquid's future. It also doesn't make a ton of sense because it would make it a very bloated and busy mission. I can completely buy there was a mission where Boss had to exterminate a village but it seems entirely rumor that it was the same mission where you fight Eli.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:09
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Nakar posted:Code Talker calls it FOX2P or something, so yeah it's clearly a FOXDIE precursor. The fact the parasites can manipulate vocal cords even makes the "FOX... DIE!" thing make sense. For as much sense as Metal Gear ever makes. Yeah I was walking though the woods one day too and found the grime on the side of a rock where Big Boss pissed on. I know it was his piss because the taste and smell are exactly what I imagined it would be. If they wanted the loving corpses of the goddam Cobra units from Snake Earter then why the gently caress did they fit them all with bombs and detonate them? Perhaps because this is all bullshit grasping at straws. You literally made the story even worse by telling me that The End's and The Pain's dead bodies were recovered and used.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:10
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Why does Ocelot say Lalilulelo f you shoot him with tranq darts? I thought the whole thing was going to be inside a computer simulation or something.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:12
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Drinkfist posted:You literally made the story even worse by telling me that The End's and The Pain's dead bodies were recovered and used.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:13
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Nakar posted:Code Talker's tapes are full of all the best revelations, like "oh yeah the parasites are responsible for language in the first place" and "the parasites invented dinosaurs." The parasites adapted with the dinosaurs, idiota!
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Sep 9, 2015 21:14
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ImpAtom posted:People keep claiming this but it isn't in the Mission 51 scene as presented. They do napalm the island though, maybe someone assumed there were people living on the island? And I guess their intent was for Eli to be burnt to death in the napalm, that is if he didn't suicide himself. Snake giving him the gun with one bullet was pretty freaking bad rear end, totally not what I expected. It is a shame that whole chapter was cut.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:14
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ImpAtom posted:Unless you saw a different version of Episode 51 then I did this isn't really true. It resolve's Eli's plotline but Eli's plotline is part of a trilogy with Huey and Quiet's endings, all of which serve to reinforce the ideas the game stated. Its absence is notable but it literally on part with those three because all three together form the thematic whole of the ending, not Eli on its own. Unsurprisingly all three are based around the parasites too. Eli's plotline wasn't the only important element in that mission. I mean, yeah, it was important, since properly concluding Eli's arc also shows up Skull Face as a second-string villain all along - for all of Skull Face's lofty ideological motives, his tools of war were turned against him by Eli's own, far more personal reason to fight. But Snake's actions and conclusions in that mission were also fairly crucial. That one line he says to Eli - "That's right. Don't blame yourself. Blame me." - is really drat good even if you're not measuring it by Kojima's skewed standards. It's mockery, because by getting so caught up in his past and his revenge quest Eli's given up on creating his own future, which Snake, at the beginning of the game, warns Kaz and the Diamond Dogs not to do (and then does anyway). It's pitying, because the bitter irony is that Eli's pouring out his heart to a man who, like him, is just a copy of the person he really hates. And it's also ultimately an act of kindness, because Snake's at least giving him the delusion that he got to declare war on his arch-enemy before he died. Throughout the game we get glimpses of Snake in the ACC window, and he always sees glimpses of his old face. After Mission 51, after setting an island full of child soldiers on fire (child soldiers who were only there due to his own actions), shooting his "son," and leaving him to die, he sees Big Boss's face in full Demon Mode. Episode 51 is where Venom Snake fully accepts his identity as Big Boss's surrogate, and all the heinous acts that must follow from that acceptance. The true ending just clues us players in on Venom's own revelation. Hell, even Rebenok gets a little closure from E51, and he's barely a character. His removal of Eli's parasites is the first charitable act he performs all game, even if it's in favor of continuing Eli's campaign of revenge, and serves as a fairly believable start to what would eventually become FOXHOUND.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:16
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I see people saying that one of the reasons why Quiet left was because she activated the parasite and was going to end up dying, but I thought women were just carriers and didn't actually get the messed up chest growth. Like she still had to leave cuz she'd kill others though. Or did I mishear how the parasite works in general.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:16
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I see people saying that one of the reasons why Quiet left was because she activated the parasite and was going to end up dying, but I thought women were just carriers and didn't actually get the messed up chest growth. Like she still had to leave cuz she'd kill others though. Or did I mishear how the parasite works in general. She would only carry it, but could pass it on. She wouldn't die, but everybody around her would get infected and thus Skull Face's incredibly stupid plan would be executed. So it's inferable that she walked into the desert to die.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:18
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Is that true in gameplay as well? Will female Kikongo-speaking staff not die of the first outbreak? I could swear I had an infected female staffer but I don't recall what happened to her because I quarantined everyone immediately and only a handful of the random people first selected to catch it died.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:20
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Nakar posted:Is that true in gameplay as well? Will female Kikongo-speaking staff not die of the first outbreak? I could swear I had an infected female staffer but I don't recall what happened to her because I quarantined everyone immediately and only a handful of the random people first selected to catch it died. I believe so. They can infect people but won't die themselves.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:21
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So what happens with the outbreaks if, say, my entire base staff is female? I'm not insane enough to try to do this but I'm sure someone, somewhere with access to the lua files can get it set up. I suppose for the first outbreak you'd just have it trigger from a single random Kikongo-speaking male volunteer, you'd quarantine all the Kikongo-speaking women, the volunteer would die, and that'd be that. But what about the English one?
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Sep 9, 2015 21:24
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One of the guys at MB just said "Boss, whoever you are, I'll follow you". So they know, too? 
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Sep 9, 2015 21:28
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Oxxidation posted:That one line he says to Eli - "That's right. Don't blame yourself. Blame me." - is really drat good even if you're not measuring it by Kojima's skewed standards. It's mockery, because by getting so caught up in his past and his revenge quest Eli's given up on creating his own future, which Snake, at the beginning of the game, warns Kaz and the Diamond Dogs not to do (and then does anyway). It's pitying, because the bitter irony is that Eli's pouring out his heart to a man who, like him, is just a copy of the person he really hates. And it's also ultimately an act of kindness, because Snake's at least giving him the delusion that he got to declare war on his arch-enemy before he died. Throughout the game we get glimpses of Snake in the ACC window, and he always sees glimpses of his old face. After Mission 51, after setting an island full of child soldiers on fire (child soldiers who were only there due to his own actions), shooting his "son," and leaving him to die, he sees Big Boss's face in full Demon Mode. Episode 51 is where Venom Snake fully accepts his identity as Big Boss's surrogate, and all the heinous acts that must follow from that acceptance. The true ending just clues us players in on Venom's own revelation. I disagree. Even as you describe it what it is doing is reinforcing Venom's behavior in the infection strut and Quiet's mission. I think it certainly adds to that but all three missions basically are reemphasizing the same point. This isn't bad but it is emphasizing exactly what happens. (right down to Demon Boss showing up after he murders his soldiers and dropping to his knees in despair.) It's certainly an effective way to end Eli's plot but like the other missions it's basically Kojima hammering the point home. Like those missions it even has a clever bit of gameplay/story interaction. (The player is the one who shoots Eli, arguably the player is forced to kill the child soldiers he rescued although I think that is assumption rather than confirmed.) Like I said, they are a trilogy. There are three English parasites. (Well, two and a mutant one which is effectively an English parasite) which result in serious loss for both Venom and the player and leave lasting gameplay consequences. I think Eli's section of the trilogy being missing is disappointing but I don't think it stands on its own as the ending. I think it and the other 'side character' resolutions end up setting the stage for the ending. Nakar posted:So what happens with the outbreaks if, say, my entire base staff is female? I'm not insane enough to try to do this but I'm sure someone, somewhere with access to the lua files can get it set up. I suppose for the first outbreak you'd just have it trigger from a single random Kikongo-speaking male volunteer, you'd quarantine all the Kikongo-speaking women, the volunteer would die, and that'd be that. But what about the English one? You can't have an all-female staff, I think the game locks you to having certain male characters to proceed in the game.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:30
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The vocal parasites aren't gender specific where ya'll getting that from.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:31
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Sharkopath posted:The vocal parasites aren't gender specific where ya'll getting that from. The game specifically says it. Code Talker explains it IIRC. They can be carriers but don't show symptoms. I'm not sure if this applies to the mutated stream because women soldiers there do display symptoms. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 21:32
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ImpAtom posted:The game specifically says it. Code Talker explains it IIRC. I missed it somewhere then I guess, oh well!
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Sep 9, 2015 21:34
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How'd the lady doctors end up infected then?
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Sep 9, 2015 21:34
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Terminally Bored posted:One of the guys at MB just said "Boss, whoever you are, I'll follow you". So they know, too? ImpAtom posted:You can't have an all-female staff, I think the game locks you to having certain male characters to proceed in the game. I wasn't even aware females couldn't die of the parasite. Are people sure about that? The story suggests all adults at Masa Village died, not just the men. Female parasites can't mate, but that's because the wolbachia turns all the parasites in a host female so there's no mating pairs.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:36
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I always thought it was just the parasites themselves were originally separate between male and female strains that bred in separate hosts and mated when reunited, and what codetalker did was make it so that mating pairs existed in the same host and started rapidly breeding when exposed to speech.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:36
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Sharkopath posted:How'd the lady doctors end up infected then? They're asymptomatic carriers.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:37
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Mission 52 The Medic wakes up in a hospital from the coma. No one is there and no one is after him because he is so loving worthless he didn't even have a nametag. He then proceeds to become a football star and marry a lovely girl who gets him a job at a rug store. Later on in the story he gets cancer from all the nuclear materials he was close to in MSF. After a difficult struggle he beats his cancer by emulating his Big Boss god fantasies and never quitting. Later in life he is back at the rug store and dies when reaching for a particular rug on a high shelf. The Medic's name is Roy.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:37
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Nakar posted:I guess the core staff of Outer Heaven are aware of the deception but like Venom are locked into following Big Boss? Or perhaps Venom goes rogue and the Diamond Dogs who went to Outer Heaven with him stay loyal because he's their Big Boss, not the true Big Boss? I dunno. Right, that was it! They can die from it, but it'd require two to tango. So an entire female mother base would be fine. I'm tempted to try and replay the game with no staff at all. I doubt it'll let me, though.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:37
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Sharkopath posted:How'd the lady doctors end up infected then? I think the only assumption you can make there is "beta rays sure are magical" which I guess is why that particular strand is so deadly. Ibram Gaunt posted:They're asymptomatic carriers. They can't be. The way you detect them is that they have a fever which counts as a symptom. Nakar posted:I wasn't even aware females couldn't die of the parasite. Are people sure about that? Yeah, it's explicitly stated. I even remember because I was like "oh, okay, so that is why none of my lady Kikongo speakers died."
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Sep 9, 2015 21:38
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So I don't see how being a lady would make you immune when you started talking, but also that wouldn't work at all as an ethnic liberator if it just didn't work against half the population.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:38
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Sharkopath posted:So I don't see how being a lady would make you immune when you started talking, but also that wouldn't work at all as an ethnic liberator if it just didn't work against half the population. Could just put it down to Skull Face's plan being incredibly stupid and flawed.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:39
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