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I'm about halfway through Aftermath. It's not exactly a masterpiece, but it's far from some of the later EU trash.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:23
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I finished reading Lost Stars last night. It was kind of refreshing, reading an EU novel not about the Big 3. Overall, I'd say it was nothing spectacular, but I enjoyed it well enough. Far from the worst Star Wars book I've ever read. It's definitely YA, and certainly not excellent YA, but the romance isn't too interminable, and the writing is better than I feared it would be. I'll move on to Aftermath next, I think.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:41
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I'm about halfway through Aftermath. It's not exactly a masterpiece, but it's far from some of the later EU trash. What would you put it on par with from the old EU?
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Sep 9, 2015 21:51
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Wheat Loaf posted:What would you put it on par with from the old EU? Something decent but not mind-blowing, like Shadow Games. It's not pulpy (in a good way) like early Legends EU, and it feels a lot like some of the stand-alone novels from 2005+. It's not bad, you'll just be disappointed if you go in expecting the next Heir to The Empire.
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Sep 9, 2015 22:15
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Ah, didn't read Shadow Games. Don't think I've read anything new since Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor, which I think was a good while ago now. Um... Maybe similar level to something like, how about... The Cestus Deception or Death Star?
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Sep 9, 2015 22:24
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yronic heroism posted:Sounds like some cool ideas and a few poorly conceived ones. Meet the new EU same as the old EU... Is it possible that some of the Imperial leaders turned coat or something? Does that come up? Because if like half the Imperial forces are like "You know what, gently caress it, if Sheev ain't driving I'm surviving" and went back to their Republic loyalties that would quicken things a lot.
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Sep 9, 2015 22:31
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I'm curious if they're going to have Imperial admirals who commandeered their fleet groups and bogged off to set up their own splinter kingdoms who fight each other and the Empire proper more than they do the New Republic - that would be as good as an idea as any to borrow from Legends. The way the First Order's being described suggests it might be a possibility? Actually, the more I think about it, the more it reminds me of what the situation was implied to be immediately before the Legacy comic started. (Should all that have been spoilered? I'm not sure.)
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Sep 9, 2015 22:36
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Wheat Loaf posted:I'm curious if they're going to have Imperial admirals who commandeered their fleet groups and bogged off to set up their own splinter kingdoms who fight each other and the Empire proper more than they do the New Republic - that would be as good as an idea as any to borrow from Legends. The way the First Order's being described suggests it might be a possibility? Actually, the more I think about it, the more it reminds me of what the situation was implied to be immediately before the Legacy comic started. From what I've heard, this basically all happens and is done by the time of Aftermath. Like others here have said, Aftermath hugely condenses the span of the war from what it was in the EU.
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Sep 9, 2015 23:16
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I'm really getting the sense the new post-RotJ essentially streamlined a lot of the original-EU post RotJ. Somewhat surprised by that, but it seems to have retained all the Imperial splintering along with these Dark Side force adepts who begin to make moves. Instead now they're using new dark side people who will probably tie into the new movies. Jakku being the final battle of what would be considered "The Empire" also works for me, even being only a year after RotJ, since it seems like there will be remnants left, just nothing that identifies itself formally as the Empire. Teek fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 23:24
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Roughly 30 years of peace between ROTJ and TFA doesn't sound like it gives future EU writers a lot to work with for future stories but eh, such is life I guess. Luke, Han and Leia can't be off on adventures ALL the time, even though the old EU had them saving the day well into their ripe old age and never gave them a day's rest. Although if they do kind of a Cold War scenario where the New Republic and Empire aren't officially at war but hate each others' guts and are sticking their noses in smaller conflicts in an attempt to further their ideologies could be cool. The impression I get is that by the time of TFA, the New Republic is largely impotent and useless and this Resistance group has to do all the fighting. Or maybe the New Republic isn't going after the First Order directly because they don't want to provoke another war with Imperial Remnant states.
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Sep 10, 2015 00:02
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Idle speculation: The idea that the Empire was actually unstable and held together almost entirely because the admirals and politicians were terrified of Palpatine and Vader isn't anything new. In the old EU, you had admirals turning traitor and leaving to set up their own private fiefdoms and pocket empires on the battlefield at Endor. It's a bit like if the Yorkist lords had been strong enough to keep fighting Henry Tudor at Bosworth and win, but instead of holding together they all scarpered to secure their own holdings as soon as they learned Richard was dead. I mean, on reflection, it doesn't bother me too much that the war ends a lot sooner now. When we begin Heir To the Empire, it's been five years since Palpatine died, and I think the status quo is that the Republic holds Coruscant while the Empire has been fighting a holding pattern to maintain its territory, and hasn't really been able to mount any major counter-offensives until Thrawn re-emerges and galvanises them into getting their poo poo together. The X-Wing novels and so on fill-in the gap by showing that the Empire was trying to fight the Republic with one hand and Zsinj with the other, with a bunch of their best admirals taking large parts of the fleet to set up warlord kingdoms, and Pestage, Isard and the Moffs (and Trioculus  ) squabbling over who would get to replace Palpatine. Post-Thrawn, there's stuff like Operation Shadow Hand (I can't imagine they'll be doing the whole "Palpatine reborn as a genitally-challenged teenager" plot again), Daala killing off all the warlords then loving up when she tries to attack Luke's academy (likewise) and Pellaeon's final campaign, which was about 10 or 15 years after Endor and ended with him deciding to pack it in and sue for peace. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that, while it is pretty condensed, if you compare it to the old EU up to the end of the Thrawn trilogy, it isn't too unfeasible. (Again, not sure if the spoiler tags are necessary or appropriate - all that stuff is stuff that was in books published decades ago at this point.)
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Sep 10, 2015 00:05
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Nothing will be as good as the Essential Guide to Warfare's descriptions of the final campaigns against the Imperial Remnant.
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Sep 10, 2015 01:12
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I appreciate that they're at least throwing a bone to the old canon, with the new government still being called the New Republic, Chandrila still existing and even still having the same capital, Mon Mothma still becoming its leader, and post-Endor infighting among the remains of the Empire.
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Sep 10, 2015 01:23
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Aftermath is an ok title but a more fitting one would be; "Actually there's a hidden door at the back of this room to escape through" Cyberball 2072 fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 02:45
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Wheat Loaf posted:Ah, didn't read Shadow Games. Don't think I've read anything new since Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor, which I think was a good while ago now. Cestus is a good comparison. The books and comics that have come out since the Disney takeover have been decent enough, but they're still playing it safe. Even at it's absolute worst, the old EU was at least still creatively batshit. Hopefully this new EU will get some breathing room after the sequel trilogy is over.
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Sep 10, 2015 04:42
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Gammatron 64 posted:Roughly 30 years of peace between ROTJ and TFA doesn't sound like it gives future EU writers a lot to work with for future stories but eh, such is life I guess. Luke, Han and Leia can't be off on adventures ALL the time, even though the old EU had them saving the day well into their ripe old age and never gave them a day's rest. But I bet TFA will have practically nothing in the movie itself to explain this situation and this is a continuation of the prequels' "you need to buy the books to understand what the hell the set-up is." We'll be shown the good guys, bad guys, and also-bad guys who want to be Darth Vader.
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Sep 10, 2015 04:45
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Even at it's absolute worst, the old EU was at least still creatively batshit. Counterpoint: Death Troopers
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Sep 10, 2015 04:45
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Or the ugly-rear end black core lightsabers in The Old Republic. SO EDGY.
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Sep 10, 2015 05:19
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Here is some things I am afraid of re: upcoming Star Wars movies: -that sets will feel fake and computer-generated, -that dialogue will be quippy and snarky, -that they'll have the same tone as Marvel movies. The following is already certain: -that Abrams will handle the direction with his usual amount of deftness, i.e., none at all, -that references to the previous films will be aplenty and narratively unjustified, -that the plot's primary purpose will be to establish grounds for other movies rather than to tell any sort of a story that holds its own.
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Sep 10, 2015 05:25
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If I had to guess ill say they won't be outright bad but bad in the way that all the current marvel movies are bad, they'll be perfectly fine as you watch them but when upon a second viewing you'll find yourself hitting the skip button often. Not phantom menace bad but ST: Into Darkness bad, where everything is done competently just of no real depth. After Aftermath all I want for them is to scrap all current plans and replace them with the Mr. Bones Trilogy. Mr. Bones part 1 is a shot for shot remake of the mr bean film with Mr Bones in the bean role, part 2 is The Dark Knight with Mr Bones taking Ledger's place and part 3 is a remake of Death Race 2000, I prefer Bones in the Carradine role but would accept him taking over for Stalone as Machine Gun Kelly. Cyberball 2072 fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 05:30
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Oh yes I strongly anticipate that they will be bad movies.
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Sep 10, 2015 05:33
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Van Dis posted:Here is some things I am afraid of re: upcoming Star Wars movies: I imagine the sets will be comparable in quality to the ones in the Star Trek films, probably better. It is quite certain that they will have CGI enhancements of various kinds, but I imagine the mixture of advancement in state of the art and the fact that the Red Letter Media people haven't cut a promo on it yet will make them more... digestible? to the sort of people who post in this thread, anyway. How they "feel" is up to you. quote:-that dialogue will be quippy and snarky, quote:-that they'll have the same tone as Marvel movies.
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Sep 10, 2015 05:52
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It would be terrible for a Star Wars film to be full of quippy dialogue. That never happened before. Certainly not in films with Leia, Han Solo and Lando all interacting regularly.
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Sep 10, 2015 06:08
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This may be the first time SMG's dumb loving "Star Wars fans don't actually like Star Wars" line is actually correct.
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Sep 10, 2015 06:12
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Nessus posted:well with that kind of an attitude! Somewhat
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Sep 10, 2015 06:13
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ImpAtom posted:It would be terrible for a Star Wars film to be full of quippy dialogue. That never happened before. Certainly not in films with Leia, Han Solo and Lando all interacting regularly. Surely you recognize the difference between an occasional sarcastic comment and Whedonspeak. (Nessus, that's one thing I mean about the tone, where all the characters' lines are interchangeable because they're all one-dimensional pastiches of one-liners, which precludes any emotional depth or ability to engage with the characters and hence the plot, making the movie feel hollow and unmemorable.)
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Sep 10, 2015 06:21
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Big Mean Jerk posted:This may be the first time SMG's dumb loving "Star Wars fans don't actually like Star Wars" line is actually correct. Van Dis posted:Are you kiddin the best thing about being a Star Wars fan is hating on the exceptionally stupid parts. Why on earth would anyone even be a star wars fan without that. your priorities are all messed up!!
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Sep 10, 2015 06:22
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Cestus is a good comparison. That's okay, I liked Cestus. In fact, I even remember sort of liking Jedi Trial, which nobody else seemed to. It's not like my expectations are high. In any case, Wendig's novel has apparently upset people who are deriding it as "SJW propaganda" because it has gay characters as much as it has purist Legends wankers who are deriding it because it isn't The Truce At Bakura, so I sort of want to buy it, read it and enjoy it now to spite said people.
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Sep 10, 2015 09:18
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cptn_dr posted:I finished reading Lost Stars last night. It was kind of refreshing, reading an EU novel not about the Big 3. Overall, I'd say it was nothing spectacular, but I enjoyed it well enough. Far from the worst Star Wars book I've ever read. I was really impressed by the scenarios of the main characters reactions to witnessing the destruction of Aldereaan first hand and the aftermath of the destruction of the Death Star.
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Sep 10, 2015 12:44
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I imagine the war ends so quickly because each time the Republic grab a new system or win a fight, the Imperial commanders there basically go "If you don't trial us for war crimes, we won't scuttle this Star Destroyer." So the Republic quickly culls anything and everything of value from the Imperials. It's made even worse because since the dissolution of the Senate in Ep 4, there's no central way for any of the Moffs to actually organise a war effort and no way for them to in any way deal with the will of the people. That and the most Elite imperial troops went down with Invincible and the Death Star. So it really makes sense that a small but organised force can just win system after system by presenting a superior local force to the opposition and knowing that reinforcements for the opposing side just won't be coming. I also imagine that what we'll see with the First Order is the Empire adopting the same tactics as the Republic and having one small elite force do hit and runs on minor systems. I'd guess the trailer for TFA is us seeing one such attack I am hoping they end up including some sort of genius commander for the Imperials at some point. I was just remembering how Thrawn rolled up to Coruscant with some transports, opened up their cargo holds and then flew them away. The New Republic spends the better part of a year wondering how to deal with all the invisible asteroids around Coruscant only to realise that Thrawn just opened up EMPTY cargo holds.
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Sep 10, 2015 13:16
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Yorkshire Tea posted:
Excuse me that is what Mofferences are for 
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Sep 10, 2015 13:58
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Van Dis posted:Surely you recognize the difference between an occasional sarcastic comment and Whedonspeak. (Nessus, that's one thing I mean about the tone, where all the characters' lines are interchangeable because they're all one-dimensional pastiches of one-liners, which precludes any emotional depth or ability to engage with the characters and hence the plot, making the movie feel hollow and unmemorable.) Nope, that isn't what you said. You said "that dialogue will be quippy and snarky." Worrying that the dialogue will be written by Joss Whedon when Joss Whedon isn't on the film is dumb. You however expressed a concern the film would have 'snarky and quippy dialogue" as if that was unexpected in a franchise that gave us Han Solo.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:55
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D-Pad posted:Who is the person in the Aftermath epilogue? I can't figure it out. Almost certainly the character being played by Andy Serkis in The Force Awakens. The character's name has not yet been revealed (for shooting he is referred to as "Snoke" or "supreme leader" but it isn't clear if that's final or just an anti leak stand in name), but the indication so far is that they are to Kylo Ren what Palpatine was to Vader: the big bad playing everything toward a master plan. Which fits with the end there in Aftermath.
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Sep 10, 2015 15:29
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D-Pad posted:Who is the person in the Aftermath epilogue? I can't figure it out. Lord Nyax. Edit: Not gonna lie, I'd actually be kinda curious to see how Lord Nyax would fight in live-action with his wrist-, knee- and elbow-mounted lightsabres. Get a really imaginative choreographer and cast a professional martial artist and see what happens, yeah? Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 16:06
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Van Dis posted:Surely you recognize the difference between an occasional sarcastic comment and Whedonspeak. (Nessus, that's one thing I mean about the tone, where all the characters' lines are interchangeable because they're all one-dimensional pastiches of one-liners, which precludes any emotional depth or ability to engage with the characters and hence the plot, making the movie feel hollow and unmemorable.) This is mostly the Avengers, and maybe Iron Man. The Captain America movies didn't have near the level of snark you're implying, and Thor didn't either. The huge problem with the prequels is that they felt fake, due to a combination of Lucas being bad at directing, too much CGI everything, and Hayden Christensrn. The behind the scenes reel from ComicCon is enough to tell me that all three of those things are no longer problems.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:19
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Strobe posted:This is mostly the Avengers, and maybe Iron Man. The Captain America movies didn't have near the level of snark you're implying, and Thor didn't either. Goddamn why would you make me go and watch that again. I feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:34
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ImpAtom posted:Nope, that isn't what you said. You said "that dialogue will be quippy and snarky." Worrying that the dialogue will be written by Joss Whedon when Joss Whedon isn't on the film is dumb. You however expressed a concern the film would have 'snarky and quippy dialogue" as if that was unexpected in a franchise that gave us Han Solo. Deliberately misinterpreting the intention of the post even after it's been clarified is an odd choice. Whedonspeak affects more than movies he's worked on. I'd point to Guardians of the Galaxy, which many critics claimed better captured the feel of the old Star Wars movies than anything since.
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Sep 10, 2015 17:38
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Wheat Loaf posted:In any case, Wendig's novel has apparently upset people who are deriding it as "SJW propaganda" because it has gay characters as much as it has purist Legends wankers who are deriding it because it isn't The Truce At Bakura, so I sort of want to buy it, read it and enjoy it now to spite said people. On the other hand all his defenders are insufferable twats who think he's an avant-garde genius who goes over the head of anti-intellectual lowbrows and think there is a literal conspiracy to destroy his reputation.
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Sep 10, 2015 18:38
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Van Dis posted:Deliberately misinterpreting the intention of the post even after it's been clarified is an odd choice. Whedonspeak affects more than movies he's worked on. I'd point to Guardians of the Galaxy, which many critics claimed better captured the feel of the old Star Wars movies than anything since. I understand your clarification but I still think you're not actually making a valid point. Star Wars is a very quipping and sarcastic film. The three main characters are Luke, Leia and Han, all three of whom are various levels of snarky and sarcastic. R2-D2 and Chewbacca are both implied-but-not-voiced. Even goddamn Yoda makes quips. Quips written in 2015 are going to be different from those made several decades ago just because dialogue writing is different but Star Wars drat well should have quips and sarcasm. I think your claim that "Whedonspeak affects more than the movies he worked on" is flawed except insomuch as that sort of irreverent quipping in pretty standard. And I could understand saying it is out of tone for Star Wars if Star Wars didn't have tons of irreverent quipping already! Frankly one of the things the prequel trilogy missed was that. The cast being largely dour and overly-serious detracted from it. You only really started to get some of it between Anakin and Obi-Wan as opposed to the original trilogy where pretty much everyone snarked on each other and it actually helped define their personalities. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 19:22
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Without quips you get terrible seventies style comedy relief in the form of Jar Jar Binks. I'll take the snarky quips any day.
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Sep 10, 2015 19:23
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