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Pesmerga posted:Bet it's Dan Hodges. 'He needs a drone strike, not a new Labour leader'. You'd win that bet and even got the topic right too. Complaining about the Stop the War Coalition having the nerve to say maybe we shouldn't be covertly drone striking people. "We don't know if they were guilty, but we killed them anyway and I'm glad they're dead" - Dan Hodges Brave Moral Stance
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Sep 10, 2015 14:01
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Guavanaut posted:The only thing I can think of that will do that is the Tories being worse, and even then I'm not sure they'd manage it. Preety sure the Tories are doing a good job of that right now compared to their previous term with the Lib Dems. In my mind, in order to get this idea to work there has to be cooperation across the board to get every minor party to rally behind the electoral reform party by not putting their own party on the list at the GE so that most votes won't be split up. The tricky part is that in order to get as much votes as possible, it needs to account for there to be no lesser parties competing at the same time against the reform party. They will also need to get votes from both the Conservatives, Labour and the SNP in Scotland (Unless Labour for some reason decied to join along which I doubt but it would make things a lot easier to win if that was the case. SNP may or may not also join if their stance on wanting a better voting system is to be believed.) If the electoral reform party somehow does manage to get enough seats then it should in theory introduce the new system that they proposed and then have another election straight after that because there is no way that the parties involved are going to work together after the common goal is complete. Basically in order for this to work, they will have to be dealing with the angles and devils. Liberial Democrats, Greens, UKIP, Plaid Cymru, SNP and every lesser party it can possibly muster.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:03
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Venmoch posted:Something that came up on my Facebook feed earlier to distract us while Labour figure out a way to stop Corbyn from becoming "Dear Leader" I got bored with the self congratulation. However, I don't think the Victorians had colour cameras or the internet to wank about how unique your opt-out lifestyle is.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:07
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Extreme0 posted:Basically in order for this to work, they will have to be dealing with the angles and devils. Liberial Democrats, Greens, UKIP, Plaid Cymru, SNP and every lesser party it can possibly muster. I've seen otherwise intelligent people say "But electoral reform would let UKIP in, and do you really want that?"
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Sep 10, 2015 14:08
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Venmoch posted:Something that came up on my Facebook feed earlier to distract us while Labour figure out a way to stop Corbyn from becoming "Dear Leader" Speaking as someone with a useless MA in Victorian Studies they sound like a couple of oddballs who enjoy wearing costumes and making life harder for themselves. e: They're also American so yeah Dickens doesn't really apply Crashbee fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 14:08
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Venmoch posted:Something that came up on my Facebook feed earlier to distract us while Labour figure out a way to stop Corbyn from becoming "Dear Leader" I know the morality's questionable, but if we are drone striking British citizens...
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Sep 10, 2015 14:10
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Venmoch posted:Something that came up on my Facebook feed earlier to distract us while Labour figure out a way to stop Corbyn from becoming "Dear Leader" They don't talk about where they get their water from, their food, birth control, whether they'd still go to the doctors if one of their legs fell off etc. And the house may have been built in 1888 but I don't think they had laminate back then so it is almost certainly warmer and more efficient than the houses were back then. Her husband probably treats her better than men would have treated women back then. It's all just dressing up and doing the bits that are the most fun. I think life in the Victorian era probably would have been okay if you were rich and a man, a bit worse if you were rich and a woman (though of course women could only be rich if their husbands or fathers were) and pretty awful for everyone else.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:15
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Umbra Dubium posted:I've seen otherwise intelligent people say "But electoral reform would let UKIP in, and do you really want that?" Technically they are already in but that's me being snarky. While UKIP may get more seats, I doubt they will be able to form government by themselves without needing help from a bigger major party like the Tories. And Labour will also need to do the same by getting help from the smaller parties. It will also be a lot easier for parties to 'get on' like the Greens and the other left-wing parties to have a say as well depending on the voting system used. So while yes UKIP may get more of a voice, the other parties which stand no chance in the FPTP will be able to have a chance to get a say aswell. Now...the one thing that needs to be agreed on is the voting system. Personally it's either STV or STV+Open party list for me.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:19
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lmaoboy1998 posted:I know the morality's questionable, but if we are drone striking British citizens... They're yanks. Edit: Dickens still applies though, it's not like the US in the 19th century was a nice place to be poor. feedmegin fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 14:20
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Mr N posted:So no one would consider voting Yvette/Andy in a GE? As much as I want a Corbyn victory I could see myself supporting either, obviously depending on what policy they come up with in the next 5 years. I just don't see what alternative there is, under the current voting system. Not that it'll make much difference because right now I could live in almost any part of Scotland and it would feel extremely difficult to imagine my MP not ending up as someone from the SNP in 2020. Unless they really gently caress up in the next 5 years which is certainly possible.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:23
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Mr N posted:So no one would consider voting Yvette/Andy in a GE? As much as I want a Corbyn victory I could see myself supporting either, obviously depending on what policy they come up with in the next 5 years. I just don't see what alternative there is, under the current voting system. It would depend on there actual policies at the time; but it would have to be something along the lines Crobyn is proposing to get me away from the Greens (or maybe Plaid Cymru). And I don't think I could trust Brunham to not flip-flop for popularity again. In other news: http://labourlist.org/2015/09/a-response-to-tristram-hunt-your-decision-to-vote-anyone-but-corbyn-doesnt-add-up/ Renfield fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 14:28
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Venmoch posted:Something that came up on my Facebook feed earlier to distract us while Labour figure out a way to stop Corbyn from becoming "Dear Leader" I'm cataloguing thousands of letters from destitute Londoners in the 1880s right now (and only just set aside a letter from a 70 year old man who had to pawn his clothes to buy food) I find this sort of willful ignorance pretty infuriating. Let me tell you about the small silk flower I found enclosed in a letter from a man who had to quit his job to care for his children after his wife was committed to an asylum, and who (with his children) made these silk flowers to sell for a meager income that couldn't put food on the table. Or maybe the one where a schoolmaster, on finding out that a poor father had appealed to the nobility for help buying school books for his son, kicked the boy out of the school and advised the father to find him a job. I've got thousands of them and they're all pretty loving awful. The Victorian period was loving trash. It was poo poo.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:46
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Venmoch posted:Something that came up on my Facebook feed earlier to distract us while Labour figure out a way to stop Corbyn from becoming "Dear Leader" Those two need a good dose of Cholera.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:51
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Fans posted:You'd win that bet and even got the topic right too. Complaining about the Stop the War Coalition having the nerve to say maybe we shouldn't be covertly drone striking people. Except what Hodges actually said is that we do know they were guilty because they personally loving told us they were guilty, we just don't know exactly what they were guilty of.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:53
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hookerbot 5000 posted:They don't talk about where they get their water from, their food, birth control, whether they'd still go to the doctors if one of their legs fell off etc. And the house may have been built in 1888 but I don't think they had laminate back then so it is almost certainly warmer and more efficient than the houses were back then. Her husband probably treats her better than men would have treated women back then. It's all just dressing up and doing the bits that are the most fun. This line in particular is especially ironic given the determination to reject wha they see as modernity: quote:The late Victorian era was an incredibly dynamic time, with so many new and extraordinary inventions it seemed anything was possible. The whole thing, as someone else said, is eye-rollingly smug, little more than a dull household inventory of "we don't have A, instead we use vaguely similar B made in 18XX." But you've really hit the key point by noting that it's remarkable how much they don't talk about, and not even just the practicalities and accoutrements of contemporary life. For 'historians' who claims to be "devoted to getting our own insights and perspectives on the era," they appear to offer no perspective or insights other than "modern A is shoddy and disposable, old B is long-lasting and therefore better." It's an extremely telling type of "history" to perform, one that can say absolutely nothing about the Victorian era or Victorian "ideals and aesthetics," since it's a comparison that no Victorian could ever make. There's just a fetishisation of a few Victorian products with no attempt made to understand or explain the culture or society which produced those products, just a curious belief that it's possible to "be a victorian" in isolation, which again produces no insights or arguments about anything other than the author's own (very contemporary) hang ups. The running theme seems to be a bland, cliched and totally vague "modern technology alienates people from something or other," completely forgetting that the very objects they fetishise are themselves technology, once considered modern. Basically, it has nothing interesting to say about history or historiography and is all about them. It turns out that they're just very dull people.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:54
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scan and email them to those smug fuckers E: the letters
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Sep 10, 2015 14:59
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Flatscan posted:Those two need a good dose of Cholera. *gets cholera, can't afford a paid hospital and can't get into a free hospital because I don't have a rich patron to give me a ticket; dies in gutter* lmao man the victorian times sure were a riot
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Sep 10, 2015 15:00
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*is a member of the nobility* *son is born blind and epileptic, wife dies of bright's disease, son suffers massive epileptic seizures on a daily basis because there's no medication for epilepsy and in desperation I turn to baths of holy water but he dies anyway* lol man, such a refined age.
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Sep 10, 2015 15:05
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I can't see a comment box to call them retards in.
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Sep 10, 2015 15:09
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Mr N posted:So no one would consider voting Yvette/Andy in a GE? As much as I want a Corbyn victory I could see myself supporting either, obviously depending on what policy they come up with in the next 5 years. I just don't see what alternative there is, under the current voting system. there's no point in worrying about this until we see how corbyn fairs in the polls + the scottish elections + the european referendum. a lot can change in five years 
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Sep 10, 2015 15:17
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The Stormont business committee are now meeting. The SDLP, after talks with the Irish government, have come out publicly against any adjournment so it looks like it isn't going to be going the DUP's way today. Its looking likely everything may be going belly up before the days done.
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Sep 10, 2015 15:26
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Niric posted:This line in particular is especially ironic given the determination to reject wha they see as modernity: Yeah they're not 'historians' at all, they're pretentious hipsters and absolutely nothing else. That said a lot of the general public and amateur historians do think the discipline is all about accumulating an encyclopedic knowledge of all the different things/'events' regarding a particular place or time. It's a mindset derived from the secondary school stereotype of the subject as dedicated entirely to the rote learning of facts without any real analysis, so I guess it's understandable if wrong. Real shame, because studying history (along with equally marginalised subjects like philosophy) sets you up for engaging properly with politics/current affairs like nothing else imho.
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Sep 10, 2015 15:45
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Jedit posted:Except what Hodges actually said is that we do know they were guilty because they personally loving told us they were guilty, we just don't know exactly what they were guilty of. Which is ignoring three key points that make this an issue. 1. We do not have capital punishment. They were executed. Active enemy combattants can be killed, as can criminals resisting arrest. Its considered not on to cap someone in a country we have no reason to be in, when they arent specifically doing anything. 2. Their citizenship. We arent allowed, by UN convention, to completely disenfranchise anyone. It seems were acting in a way that implies weve renounced their statehood. May has also said theyre doing that, obviously. 3. Due process. What we then have is a government insisting on being to operate outside the law, outside UN agreements, and outside its own mandate, to bomb a country experiencing one of the greatest crises of our lives. One which we played no small part in causing. Its a loving huge deal, but everything is going to poo poo anyway. Its a prime example of clueless rich wankers demanding themselves to be above any authority on the planet. Lynchings would be justified. That said, nothing will happen.
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Sep 10, 2015 15:46
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MGS5chat: tranqed a bear, ballooned a desert rear end, GOTYMr N posted:So no one would consider voting Yvette/Andy in a GE? Neither of them would do anything meaningful for the vulnerable in society. I'd probably spoil my ballot. Spangly A posted:Lynchings would be justified. Well if we're talking about Tories...
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Sep 10, 2015 16:01
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Oberleutnant posted:I can't see a comment box to call them retards in. Here Do God's work and bring them some real Victoriana.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:04
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Sorry lads, I'm not actually left wing at all. Facebook has decided I like UKIP. The presence of Plaid Cymru on this list is a bit mystifying
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Sep 10, 2015 16:06
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Extreme0 posted:Preety sure the Tories are doing a good job of that right now compared to their previous term with the Lib Dems. Oberleutnant posted:The Victorian period was loving trash. It was poo poo.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:10
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ThomasPaine posted:Yeah they're not 'historians' at all, they're pretentious hipsters and absolutely nothing else. Yeah, I agree. If the article was simply "my husband and I enjoy dressing up" (or "these two people enjoy dressing up as Victorians all the time and that's pretty weird") it'd be fine, if probably unremarkable, and could easy be spun into a think piece about contemporary social isolation and identity - which, reading between the lines, is about the only thing the article has any insights about. [edit: although, to be fair, that one point about the mass of Victorian clothing acting like "cat whiskers" was anecdotally interesting if completely undeveloped] Niric fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 16:10
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The presence of Plaid Cymru on this list is a bit mystifying They probably file them under 'nationalist party' - but you're right that you'd expect the SNP to pop up, but then maybe people think Plaid is the other kind of socialist party. 
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Sep 10, 2015 16:12
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Tesseraction posted:MGS5chat: tranqed a bear, ballooned a desert rear end, GOTY Did you enjoy the ending? 
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Sep 10, 2015 16:17
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So do we have a final figure for turnout? In the leadership election?
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Sep 10, 2015 16:17
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Autonomous Monster posted:So do we have a final figure for turnout? In the leadership election? Turnout figures should be released for leader/deputy on Saturday morning.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:19
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Guavanaut posted:This is what pisses me off about steampunk. The narrative of every other -punk; cyberpunk, dieselpunk, actual punk punk, were about the dispossessed angry working class beating the corrupt dictator/corporation/government/other fash. Yet in steampunk everyone wants to dress as or write about Viscount Shitpisse and his fantastic zeppelin. gently caress that, wear a cloth cap, smear coal dust over your clothes, and hit a banker in the face with an oversize wrench. Even if you're not a steampunks you should do that. Anti Ice by Stephen Baxter was good with this, it was about the British Empire discovering antimatter then basically turning into a fascist state and starting a cold war.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:26
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Time for some more pollchat: http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/09/project-red-dawn/#more-11635 quote:My latest research has looked into this question by examining the views of two sorts of people: how do the views of Labour Loyalists, who voted for the party in 2010 and again last May, compare with the Defectors who have moved away from the party since it was an election-winning force? What caused the switchers to switch, and do they see themselves returning? 
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Sep 10, 2015 16:36
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A third of ex-Labour Tories are pro-socialist? e: I mean are they thinking it'd be good... because it'd push Labour out of power forever? e2: I find these questions to be just precise enough to be frustratingly open to interpretation.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:40
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Oberleutnant posted:I've got thousands of them and they're all pretty loving awful. The Victorian period was loving trash. It was poo poo. Not going to lie, this sounds both incredibly interesting and incredibly depressing. Is it being collected anywhere for us plebs to read later? Regarding Steampunk, one of the many things I found absolutely bizzare is that everyone in incredibly clean. Your meant to be working around Steam Engines for christs sake. You should be covered in sweat, ash and smoke not looking like you've just turned up for Lord Argleblargs garden party.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:49
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Two thirds of UKIP defectors think a proper socialist party would be a good thing to have, nearly half think it could win an election. Looks like UKIP is fertile ground. All of those think-pieces about UKIP stealing old Labour voters look more relevant than ever.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:51
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The people who love the Victorian period are the people who didn't live in it.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:53
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What does "TOTAL" mean at the bottom questions?
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Sep 10, 2015 16:56
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thehustler posted:What does "TOTAL" mean at the bottom questions? It's the aggregate of other questions. The first aggregate is questions 1+2, the second 1+3.
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Sep 10, 2015 16:57
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